IOTA - Unmoderated thread

[e-coinomist]

iotatoken=david=shit
IOTA=SCAM

so fuckin simple, just watch and learn at their moderated forum.

"scam" implies a malicious intention,

Great point.

Now Id say its not a real scam, its just incompetence. The scam is an opportunity, not originally planned for.

IoT is very attractive, its an enterprise buzzword, so of course it attracts real people with real good skills, but the founders and leaders, are just incompetent, both technically and socially obviously, and are delivering vapor, "almost-good" "we will have it ready soon" "from day 1 we knew we have to build asics and sell that duh".

The train is in full steam ahead, the crash wont be spectacular, good parts will fall out of IOTA. But it wont be the one and only machine economy infrastructure or anything like that at all.

Lovely picture, might be we just have to scavage all those trainwrecks of these last two years to assemble something shiny new stuff that features real brilliance.
Maybe something IoT based like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirai_(malware) that can be rented out for coins?
Have to leave this thread, trying to buy in when the Fudlevels calmed down for some weeks.

[SatoNatomato]

@NatoSatomato: man, I understand your admiration for Byteball, and I agree it is fantastic technology.

But, with all the respect, what I really cannot understand is why you spend so much time and energy attacking IOTA? Let those guys do what they are doing, and lets see what they would achieve. There are problems with IOTA (I don't want to go into details, as I know nobody actually asks for them, and everyone sees them differently), there are issues to overcome, but as far as I understand its none of your (and mine too) business. There are people who work on that. and they sincerely try to make it succeed. Let them do their job.

If you indeed like BB so much, why don't you join BB development team, and use your SW development talents to help Tonych and the BB to progress faster? That would be much more productive way to spend your time, than wasting it here basing IOTA, isn't it? And I would tell - it would be much more rewarding in all terms, as you will get much more appreciation, and enjoyment from what you are doing!


Part 2 (if the part 1 above seems reasonable to you, you could skip part 2 at all)
One more, unrelated thought... What I really like in IOTA, and what I see as an undoubtful advantage of it over anything else - is the zero fees.  You tell BB fees are small, and that (along with other benefits) allows BB to replace IOTA... Well, as per my observations in different areas, zero fees is something hugely  more attractive than just small fees. Its like "FREE" software, its is always thousand times more popular than even extremely cheap one. Or look at the markets with zero fees - you see huge transaction volume there.
Small fee is still a fee. Zero fee is something of completely different ligue. The fact of being "FREE" opens completely new doors, and usage cases.

This is how I see it... I know you will disagree, that's is what you like doing the most . Thats ok, but as an intelligent person you could definitely would the point of what I wrote above

Yes the zero fee transaction is very attractive and a huge benefit of IOTA, and basically any tech which has zero fee is tremendous. That idea, zero-fee transactions, is worthy to pursue.

Me writing this here doesnt take much of my time or energy at all, Im a fast writer, basically all of this is a direct dump of what I think, which is why Im writing it here and not structuring it up on medium or blog posts. Its almost like talking, like this is bitcoin-talk you could say.

Anyway, I was sent by my employer to pick a software library or existing application which can handle massive transactions/s with finality/confirmation times below 5min, non of this bitcoin wait for a whole day, for an IoT application we are building, naturally I found both Iota Byteball and some others, what I found out is what I shared here for others to read/digest this faster and not waste their time as I did with Iota. If you dont think its valuable you dont have to read it at all.

[drays]

Me writing this here doesnt take much of my time or energy at all, Im a fast writer, basically all of this is a direct dump of what I think, which is why Im writing it here and not structuring it up on medium or blog posts. Its almost like talking, like this is bitcoin-talk you could say.

Oh, that makes sense . I forgot for native English speakers communication here is much less time-consuming than for me...

Anyway, I was sent by my employer to pick a software library or existing application which can handle massive transactions/s with finality/confirmation times below 5min, non of this bitcoin wait for a whole day, for an IoT application we are building, naturally I found both Iota Byteball and some others, what I found out is what I shared here for others to read/digest this faster and not waste their time as I did with Iota. If you dont think its valuable you dont have to read it at all.

Ok, I get it now. That explains a lot. Should it be completely decentralized too? Not sure how big the required TX volume is, but for a real business aimed to be launched in a year or less, I would personally consider something less cutting-edge, but more time-proven like regular blockchain-based your own private alt-network. But well, thats me, I am a bit conservative. I am sure you considered all available options.

And yes, I believe your input is valuable. Iota folks are the ones whom it should be most valuable to, but by some reason they do not appreciate it. There could be several reasons for that:
 (a) probably they had too many internal discussion on this during the last few years, and mostly came to some consensus already, so they don't want to listen critics from a newcomer who obviously didn't spend as much time and effort on the topic as they did;
 (b) your accusations (scam, etc) made them accept your views negatively. That's normal emotional reaction. I see at least one of them - Stiveo, strongly driven by emotions here;
 (c) they are scammers, they know the truth, but try to hide it from the public. Well, this might be the case, but based on the side-observations I believe this is unlikely.

As to me, when I see people are not interested in my opinion, I prefer to save the efforts for the ones who appreciate it, and go to a more friendly environment
Again, that is a matter of taste, so it is absolutely normal you are doing different way.

Cheers.

[iotatoken]

Listen, let's cut the bullshit.

As the leader of the project I am open to answer any question you may have in detail, but ONLY if it is sincere and not some ramblings by an geriatric alcoholic crackhead who regrets his life decisions and now lashes out.

Byteball is not even on my radar, so I am not even remotely interested unless you can link to some whitepaper or repos that are relevant for IOTA.

PoW issue has been answered.

Anything else?

[SatoNatomato]

Me writing this here doesnt take much of my time or energy at all, Im a fast writer, basically all of this is a direct dump of what I think, which is why Im writing it here and not structuring it up on medium or blog posts. Its almost like talking, like this is bitcoin-talk you could say.

Oh, that makes sense . I forgot for native English speakers communication here is much less time-consuming than for me...

Anyway, I was sent by my employer to pick a software library or existing application which can handle massive transactions/s with finality/confirmation times below 5min, non of this bitcoin wait for a whole day, for an IoT application we are building, naturally I found both Iota Byteball and some others, what I found out is what I shared here for others to read/digest this faster and not waste their time as I did with Iota. If you dont think its valuable you dont have to read it at all.

Ok, I get it now. That explains a lot. Should it be completely decentralized too? Not sure how big the required TX volume is, but for a real business aimed to be launched in a year or less, I would personally consider something less cutting-edge, but more time-proven like regular blockchain-based your own private alt-network. But well, thats me, I am a bit conservative. I am sure you considered all available options.

Yes indeed we have been considering that as well, looks like there is a whole class of "Private blockchain" softwares. That idea is not out the window. But me personally would not recommend it, though they still talk about it, Im telling them we need permissionless free/open source otherwise its just gonna be another Enterprise shitware 5 years from now. If they want private/internal-only, and really can control access/authorization, just use OpenVPN/tinc with whatever software on it sending things in cleartext, even standard PostgreSQL/paxos application is then fine. Strongly doubt IoT devices out of our control wont be "modified" or studied, so. Which brings me to,

And yes, I believe your input is valuable. Iota folks are the ones whom it should be most valuable to, but by some reason they do not appreciate it. There could be several reasons for that:
 (a) probably they had too many internal discussion on this during the last few years, and mostly came to some consensus already, so they don't want to listen critics from a newcomer who obviously didn't spend as much time and effort on the topic as they did;
 (b) your accusations (scam, etc) made them accept your views negatively. That's normal emotional reaction. I see at least one of them - Stiveo, strongly driven by emotions here;
 (c) they are scammers, they know the truth, but try to hide it from the public. Well, this might be the case, but based on the side-observations I believe this is unlikely.

As to me, when I see people are not interested in my opinion, I prefer to save the efforts for the ones who appreciate it, and go to a more friendly environment
Again, that is a matter of taste, so it is absolutely normal you are doing different way.

Cheers.

a) free open/source my expectations were that these discussions should be available for public, like Linux kernel or Firefox. its all in the open/available, so
b) when I asked like a normal person they could have pointed me to it, a mailing-list, FAQs or Wiki or Issue-page, but was met with hostility, ridicule etc which led me to assume
c) that they have something to hide.

[SatoNatomato]

geriatric alcoholic crackhead who regrets his life decisions

Another useless insult? Seriously.

[iotatoken]

geriatric alcoholic crackhead who regrets his life decisions

Another useless insult? Seriously.

Yes 100% seriously, I'm not your nanny. I gave you the benefit of doubt that you could act like an adult and actually muster up a response to the question pertaining to what your actual arguments are, but it's clear that it was a waste of calories.

You just wasted another few seconds of the universe's existence to the heat death by typing those retarded useless letters, feel ashamed on behalf of conscious existence.

[SatoNatomato]

geriatric alcoholic crackhead who regrets his life decisions

Another useless insult? Seriously.

Yes 100% seriously, I'm not your nanny. I gave you the benefit of doubt that you could act like an adult and actually muster up a response to the question pertaining to what your actual arguments are, but it's clear that it was a waste of calories.

You just wasted another few seconds of the universe's existence to the heat death by typing those retarded useless letters, feel ashamed on behalf of conscious existence.

The hypothalamus part of the brain is responsible for the basic biological drives, the four 'F's; fighting, fleeing, feeding and fornicating.

It looks like you are doing too much of the first, fighting, try doing more of the rest in general, and last one in particular.

[Snowykingdom]

geriatric alcoholic crackhead who regrets his life decisions

Another useless insult? Seriously.

Yes 100% seriously, I'm not your nanny. I gave you the benefit of doubt that you could act like an adult and actually muster up a response to the question pertaining to what your actual arguments are, but it's clear that it was a waste of calories.

You just wasted another few seconds of the universe's existence to the heat death by typing those retarded useless letters, feel ashamed on behalf of conscious existence.

Cut off the bullshit, dickhead.
Let the product talks instead of your stupid mouth.
 

[drays]

geriatric alcoholic crackhead who regrets his life decisions

Another useless insult? Seriously.

Yes 100% seriously, I'm not your nanny. I gave you the benefit of doubt that you could act like an adult and actually muster up a response to the question pertaining to what your actual arguments are, but it's clear that it was a waste of calories.

You just wasted another few seconds of the universe's existence to the heat death by typing those retarded useless letters, feel ashamed on behalf of conscious existence.

The hypothalamus part of the brain is responsible for the basic biological drives, the four 'F's; fighting, fleeing, feeding and fornicating.

It looks like you are doing too much of the first, fighting, try doing more of the rest in general, and last one in particular.

David is born to fight, he is a true viking. You cannot disregard the ancestry. Potential Einherjar, he is carefully preparing his honorable place in Valhalla, right next to Odin.

P.S. Cannot resist, I have to recommend this: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0862467/. If you can handle this, watch to the end, and actually enjoy, you would never mess with David again  

[SatoNatomato]

geriatric alcoholic crackhead who regrets his life decisions

Another useless insult? Seriously.

Yes 100% seriously, I'm not your nanny. I gave you the benefit of doubt that you could act like an adult and actually muster up a response to the question pertaining to what your actual arguments are, but it's clear that it was a waste of calories.

You just wasted another few seconds of the universe's existence to the heat death by typing those retarded useless letters, feel ashamed on behalf of conscious existence.

The hypothalamus part of the brain is responsible for the basic biological drives, the four 'F's; fighting, fleeing, feeding and fornicating.

It looks like you are doing too much of the first, fighting, try doing more of the rest in general, and last one in particular.

David is born to fight, he is a true viking. You cannot disregard the ancestry. Potential Einherjar, he is carefully preparing his honorable place in Valhalla, right next to Odin.

P.S. Cannot resist, I have to recommend this: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0862467/. If you can handle this, watch to the end, and actually enjoy, you would never mess with David again  

Looks interesting, gonna watch it. Thanks

Have you seen Chappie? Marvelous movie. At first half of movie I was like 'no you bastards why do you teach him bad things, to fight and be a gangsta' but then...

[drays]

David is born to fight, he is a true viking. You cannot disregard the ancestry. Potential Einherjar, he is carefully preparing his honorable place in Valhalla, right next to Odin.

P.S. Cannot resist, I have to recommend this: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0862467/. If you can handle this, watch to the end, and actually enjoy, you would never mess with David again  

Looks interesting, gonna watch it. Thanks

Have you seen Chappie? Marvelous movie. At first half of movie I was like 'no you bastards why do you teach him bad things, to fight and be a gangsta' but then...

No, I didn't listen about 'Chappi'. Will check it out!

BTW, I want to warn you regarding the 'Valhalla Rising', so you don't blame me later.
It is one of the hard-to-watch movies, you may well fall asleep watching that . When I first watched it, I cannot tell I really liked it, but the amazing part was - I remembered it much better than anything else I have watched at that time. It reminds of the 'aftertaste' effect to good wine. And it looks to be the most 'historically correct' movies I have seen.
You are either gonna love it, or hate. Latter is more probable, especially if you are from US, and used to high-dinamics movies.

[Flipp0ut `]

IOTA has to be one of the worst shit coins currently clinging on to life.

3 1/2 years in development and they still havent got a working wallet no matter how they try and talk around it (full version and light version)

Latest crap from this shit coin, they have done a snapshot which means your wallet no longer shows your balance or transactions and you have to create new addresses within the wallet to hopefully get your old balance to show.

No fun when you have hundreds of addresses and transactions.

IOTA is broken at a fundamental level and investors need to avoid and holders need to dump.

There is no real market and if you check the slack channel order book (as there are no exchanges still) you can count the number of active buyers/sellers on your fingers.

The reason the devs are dragging their feet getting it listed on an exchange is because they know full well the price will go to zero and kill it once and for all.

The devs social skills and public engagement also need some significant improvement.

[iotatoken]

IOTA has to be one of the worst shit coins currently clinging on to life.

3 1/2 years in development and they still havent got a working wallet no matter how they try and talk around it (full version and light version)

Latest crap from this shit coin, they have done a snapshot which means your wallet no longer shows your balance or transactions and you have to create new addresses within the wallet to hopefully get your old balance to show.

No fun when you have hundreds of addresses and transactions.

IOTA is broken at a fundamental level and investors need to avoid and holders need to dump.

There is no real market and if you check the slack channel order book (as there are no exchanges still) you can count the number of active buyers/sellers on your fingers.

The reason the devs are dragging their feet getting it listed on an exchange is because they know full well the price will go to zero and kill it once and for all.

The devs social skills and public engagement also need some significant improvement.

Haha, 3 and a half years development? Someone skipped kindergarten? Summer 2015 to winter 2017 is 1.5 years

And hahaha at you not understanding snapshots, yet you feel you are in the position of criticizing anything, hahah.

Finally a creative troll again.

[Flipp0ut `]

Haha, 3 and a half years development? Someone skipped kindergarten? Summer 2015 to winter 2017 is 1.5 years

And hahaha at you not understanding snapshots, yet you feel you are in the position of criticizing anything, hahah.

Finally a creative troll again.

Trolling lol.

Answer Yes/No to following :

1> Is IOTA still broken and are you currently trying to fix it?

2> Did peoples balance disappear after the snapshot where you had to keep creating new addresses in your wallet until your existing balance eventually pops up?

[iotatoken]

Haha, 3 and a half years development? Someone skipped kindergarten? Summer 2015 to winter 2017 is 1.5 years

And hahaha at you not understanding snapshots, yet you feel you are in the position of criticizing anything, hahah.

Finally a creative troll again.

Trolling lol.

Answer Yes/No to following :

1> Is IOTA still broken and are you currently trying to fix it?

Of course it's not broken, are there bugs? Of course, whenever you revolutionize an already revolutionizing technology there will be wrinkles to be ironed out, hence us insisting on not letting exchanges list until we are 100% certain all is good. Start to make sense now?

2> Did peoples balance disappear after the snapshot where you had to keep creating new addresses in your wallet until your existing balance eventually pops up?

Which client are you using?

[SatoNatomato]

Haha, 3 and a half years development? Someone skipped kindergarten? Summer 2015 to winter 2017 is 1.5 years

And hahaha at you not understanding snapshots, yet you feel you are in the position of criticizing anything, hahah.

Finally a creative troll again.

Trolling lol.

Answer Yes/No to following :

1> Is IOTA still broken and are you currently trying to fix it?

Of course it's not broken, are there bugs? Of course, whenever you revolutionize an already revolutionizing technology there will be wrinkles to be ironed out, hence us insisting on not letting exchanges list until we are 100% certain all is good. Start to make sense now?

2> Did peoples balance disappear after the snapshot where you had to keep creating new addresses in your wallet until your existing balance eventually pops up?

Which client are you using?

Didnt take Satoshi Nakamoto that much time to iron out wrinkles, it was pretty much up and go from 2009. Id say it was pretty revolutionary revolutionizing.

[iotatoken]

Haha, 3 and a half years development? Someone skipped kindergarten? Summer 2015 to winter 2017 is 1.5 years

And hahaha at you not understanding snapshots, yet you feel you are in the position of criticizing anything, hahah.

Finally a creative troll again.

Trolling lol.

Answer Yes/No to following :

1> Is IOTA still broken and are you currently trying to fix it?

Of course it's not broken, are there bugs? Of course, whenever you revolutionize an already revolutionizing technology there will be wrinkles to be ironed out, hence us insisting on not letting exchanges list until we are 100% certain all is good. Start to make sense now?

2> Did peoples balance disappear after the snapshot where you had to keep creating new addresses in your wallet until your existing balance eventually pops up?

Which client are you using?

Didnt take Satoshi Nakamoto that much time to iron out wrinkles, it was pretty much up and go from 2009. Id say it was pretty revolutionary revolutionizing.

ugh

[Carmen_Sandiego]

Are Iota and Byteball the only cryptocurrencies using DAG algorithm? Is there any thread to discuss this tech and cryptos using it?
It would be interesting to see, since this thread is more focused on Iota.

[SatoNatomato]

Are Iota and Byteball the only cryptocurrencies using DAG algorithm? Is there any thread to discuss this tech and cryptos using it?
It would be interesting to see, since this thread is more focused on Iota.

Make the thread yourself. Third dagcoin is SPECTRE.