Why I'm an atheist

[darklus123]

@azkielt,
Its kinda really hard cause you have a lot of questions that was never answered. That might be the reason why you have that kind of perspective. On my part, there are also alot of things that science still can't explain even if we say that its evolving it is still has a lot of holes to fill. I am also aware of the possibilities that it may not be able to fill those holes.

That is my perspective which also leads me thinking that there should be a start and created everything

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[af_newbie]

@azkielt,
Its kinda really hard cause you have a lot of questions that was never answered. That might be the reason why you have that kind of perspective. On my part, there are also alot of things that science still can't explain even if we say that its evolving it is still has a lot of holes to fill. I am also aware of the possibilities that it may not be able to fill those holes.

That is my perspective which also leads me thinking that there should be a start and created everything

So, you believe in the "God of the Gaps".

If you don't know how something happened, an intellectually honest position is to say: "I don't know how it happened.", not to invent an answer.

If you do, your epistemology goes out of the window.

[azkielt]

If you don't know how something happened, an intellectually honest position is to say: "I don't know how it happened.", not to invent an answer.

That is why I love scientific method, someone said: Science is fallow evidence to an answer, faith is make evidence for a desire answer (something like that). If we can't have the answer for something right now is no problem for me, even if what we actually known change is not a problem either because I trust scientific method and known that it is the more closest thing near the truth.

[darklus123]

So, you believe in the "God of the Gaps".

If you don't know how something happened, an intellectually honest position is to say: "I don't know how it happened.", not to invent an answer.

If you do, your epistemology goes out of the window.

If you don't know how it happened then you are just simply gonna rest your reasoning there? The God of the Gaps you were actually talking about is just also invented by someone like you and it is so broad to understand(kindly tell me then your definition of God cause if you do only focus your answer base on the God the most religions believed in then your reasoning goes out of the window.


Albert Einstein once said "I am not an atheist" and prefers to call him agnostic (Which only means that if you don't know something. It doesn't mean that it did not exist) Therefore you bragging that it is already certain that God is not existing even if you still do not know is also purely biased.

Again I am talking about the God of Baruch Spinoza here not a personal God. Now tell me why are you too certain?


for reference link below
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_and_philosophical_views_of_Albert_Einstein

[sweetbet]

Atheism is the belief that nothing made everything. How can nothing make everything? What can nothing do? Nothing. You don't have to see God to believe in him. Who built the house? A builder? Who painted the painting? A painter? So the house and the painting didn't make themselves? All an atheist has to do is to look at creation and use some common sense. The atheist can also ask God to show him if he exists or not. God will answer him. Just ask him to prove whether he exists, and wait for an answer. Just say something like, "God, I don't know whether you exist or not. If you do exist, please let me know for sure."

[azkielt]

Atheism is the belief that nothing made everything. How can nothing make everything? What can nothing do? Nothing. You don't have to see God to believe in him. Who built the house? A builder? Who painted the painting? A painter? So the house and the painting didn't make themselves? All an atheist has to do is to look at creation and use some common sense. The atheist can also ask God to show him if he exists or not. God will answer him. Just ask him to prove whether he exists, and wait for an answer. Just say something like, "God, I don't know whether you exist or not. If you do exist, please let me know for sure."

Atheism is not believe in any deities or god, many budist can be considered atheist because they not believe in any god. And when Atheism proclaim that nothing made everything? Don't know a single person that think that, we only said that we don't know, if you said it because the Big Bang theory you are wrong because it only say that all matter in the universe was compressed in a single point billions of years ago and then expanded, no such nonsense like nothing made everything,

[af_newbie]

So, you believe in the "God of the Gaps".

If you don't know how something happened, an intellectually honest position is to say: "I don't know how it happened.", not to invent an answer.

If you do, your epistemology goes out of the window.

If you don't know how it happened then you are just simply gonna rest your reasoning there? The God of the Gaps you were actually talking about is just also invented by someone like you and it is so broad to understand(kindly tell me then your definition of God cause if you do only focus your answer base on the God the most religions believed in then your reasoning goes out of the window.


Albert Einstein once said "I am not an atheist" and prefers to call him agnostic (Which only means that if you don't know something. It doesn't mean that it did not exist) Therefore you bragging that it is already certain that God is not existing even if you still do not know is also purely biased.

Again I am talking about the God of Baruch Spinoza here not a personal God. Now tell me why are you too certain?


for reference link below
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_and_philosophical_views_of_Albert_Einstein

So now you are presenting an argument from authority. LOL.  Did I put your feet too close to the fire?

I can give you countless errors in the scriptures (all religions and denominations).  Countless reasons from history.

Here are a few:

1. 6 million of Jesus' countrymen (the chosen people, WTF?) slaughtered by people who believed Jesus was the son of God.
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1755_Lisbon_earthquake in the morning of "Feast of All Saints" when all people were in (Christian) churches (which became their coffins), tallest buildings collapsed first.
3. Islamic conquest, millions of people killed, 270 million (half of the global population) by one estimate https://www.politicalislam.com/tears-of-jihad/
4. A process of evolution in all living organisms
5. Age and the size of the universe
6. Black holes
7. I can go on forever about Astrophysics if you like...Evolution of stars, galaxies, a formation of atoms, etc.

No intelligent being would 'design' a world with all of the above.  All of what you see was an accident.  And continues to be one.

If you think otherwise, please do humanity a favor and do not reproduce.

[darklus123]

So now you are presenting an argument from authority. LOL.  Did I put your feet too close to the fire?

Am I?

I can give you countless errors in the scriptures (all religions and denominations).  Countless reasons from history.

Then you surely did not understood what I am talking about. Hence you are still insisting to put your argument based on the personal God which I have already stated that it was not I am referring to. Those happens for reasons we don't even know (As you have said if you don't know something then tell them you don't know) Now tell me how does that connects to God of Baruch Spinoza that I am talking about? wait I get it you are just talking about the personal God lol.

All of what you see was an accident.  And continues to be one.

of course it was not created by accident did I even tell you that this were created by accident? or it's just that you are assuming that much?

No intelligent being would 'design' a world with all of the above. 

The fact that it is unknown how did you know? for you to be able to tell me that there is no such beings who design everything you should have to be there when all of this are being designed or not right or right? or again you are just assuming? LOL.

[af_newbie]

So now you are presenting an argument from authority. LOL.  Did I put your feet too close to the fire?

Am I?

I can give you countless errors in the scriptures (all religions and denominations).  Countless reasons from history.

Then you surely did not understood what I am talking about. Hence you are still insisting to put your argument based on the personal God which I have already stated that it was not I am referring to. Those happens for reasons we don't even know (As you have said if you don't know something then tell them you don't know) Now tell me how does that connects to God of Baruch Spinoza that I am talking about? wait I get it you are just talking about the personal God lol.

All of what you see was an accident.  And continues to be one.

of course it was not created by accident did I even tell you that this were created by accident? or it's just that you are assuming that much?

No intelligent being would 'design' a world with all of the above.  

The fact that it is unknown how did you know? for you to be able to tell me that there is no such beings who design everything you should have to be there when all of this are being designed or not right or right? or again you are just assuming? LOL.

Yes, you are.  You paraded Einstein/Spinoza and waved his views (pantheistic God) in my nose.

How were the first organelles formed?  Do you know?  Fucking fusion accident, that is how.  How was the universe started?  A fucking explosion (probably from a black hole singularity explosion) and expansion on space-time, that is how.  If that is not an accident that I don't know what is.  How was our Sun formed?  A result of a fucking supernova accident that is how.  Accidents upon accidents.  All follow the natural laws of Physics.

You are just a simple man looking through your 80-year window.  Step back and look outside.  The universe is incredible, huge and really, really old. Pick up some Biology/Physics books and stop reading "the goatherder's guide to the galaxy" aka religious scriptures.  

Pascal wager is worse than believing the Earth is flat because you are not honest with yourself. Flat-Earthers and Bible thumpers are convinced and in their mind, they are honest with themselves.  You are not.

We as humans would not be here if it was not for the sheer number of accidents in the past.  Think about it for a second, then you will know why nothing was 'designed'.

[darklus123]

What is wrong then if i do open that point of view to you ? It is actually making sense you just keep ignoring arguments you do not like lol.


Well maybe you are right that those were made with explosions or whatsoever then how can that be a fvcking reason for you to think that it was really made just by accident or no form were responsible for those? Were you there?


Should i be the person who should step back and look at the bigger picture of the universe?, as you have said this world is so amazing its mysteries  are also keeping us on track discoveries are made every single day. You should start taking the wider path hmm

The fvck why do you keep on going back to personal god's point view? Did i even talk about this religious sculptures you were saying?

Ok fine you are more knowledgeable when it comes to science but come'on you know I am bringing good points here that you cannot give good answers.


Haha funny even the accidents you were talking about has their own designs. You getting to my nerves you know science right? Why is that you do not even know that an explosions has designs? You know what an explosion would look like right? Then why?

[azkielt]

Science has put in our hands the evidence about how things are, things like evolution and the Big Bang aren't a debate in the scientific community because they are very strong scientific theorys. If something is unknown like what happen before the big bang or even why the big bang happen scientist make hypothesis (the therm people confound with theory) about those aspects but the answer is that we don't know and there is where semi-ignorant people come to claim that if science don't have the answer religion has it: "Science can't explain what happen before the Big Bang and how and why started and is because is design and trigger by God" wtf is that? I prefer no answer before some nonsense crap that can look like plausible to some people that are afraid of death or accept that we are at the same level then any others animals and there is nothing special about us.

I recommend to @darklus123 to read the books "A Brief History of Time" by professor Stephen Hawking  and "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins, the are a good read and can change peoples way to think or at least clarify many points and why science and religion even if many people say otherwise are not compatible.

And again I would love if some religion were true, like almost all people in the world sometimes I think is sad that only have this life to enjoy I would be please if the some afterlife history were true but they aren't because even if there is no way to really prove it is unlikely to be the only part of religions that are true when the rest has been proved to be a nonsense. The thing that made me rest in peace with that struggle  is the video of Optimistic Nihilism by Kurzgesagt – In a Nutshell (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBRqu0YOH14)
PD: sorry if my english is a bit hard to understand, I like to keep it simple almost all the time because my gramma sucks.

[af_newbie]

What is wrong then if i do open that point of view to you ? It is actually making sense you just keep ignoring arguments you do not like lol.


Well maybe you are right that those were made with explosions or whatsoever then how can that be a fvcking reason for you to think that it was really made just by accident or no form were responsible for those? Were you there?


Should i be the person who should step back and look at the bigger picture of the universe?, as you have said this world is so amazing its mysteries  are also keeping us on track discoveries are made every single day. You should start taking the wider path hmm

The fvck why do you keep on going back to personal god's point view? Did i even talk about this religious sculptures you were saying?

Ok fine you are more knowledgeable when it comes to science but come'on you know I am bringing good points here that you cannot give good answers.


Haha funny even the accidents you were talking about has their own designs. You getting to my nerves you know science right? Why is that you do not even know that an explosions has designs? You know what an explosion would look like right? Then why?

Design has a purpose and function.    

What is the purpose of the continued creation of spacetime?

If you say it is us here on Earth, we are done.

[darklus123]

Design has a purpose and function.    

What is the purpose of the continued creation of spacetime?

If you say it is us here on Earth, we are done.

Ahm, I personally do not know the exact reason why it keeps on evolving as you have said the universe is too wide and as of the current technology that we have it is almost impossible to explain the unknown phenomenon. Wait then how can that be reason to consider that there is no any singular self-subsequent substance("GOD" not the personal God from religions) ?

[af_newbie]

Design has a purpose and function.    

What is the purpose of the continued creation of spacetime?

If you say it is us here on Earth, we are done.

Ahm, I personally do not know the exact reason why it keeps on evolving as you have said the universe is too wide and as of the current technology that we have it is almost impossible to explain the unknown phenomenon. Wait then how can that be reason to consider that there is no any singular self-subsequent substance("GOD" not the personal God from religions) ?

So stop talking about the design of the universe.

[BADecker]

Design has a purpose and function.    

What is the purpose of the continued creation of spacetime?

If you say it is us here on Earth, we are done.

Ahm, I personally do not know the exact reason why it keeps on evolving as you have said the universe is too wide and as of the current technology that we have it is almost impossible to explain the unknown phenomenon. Wait then how can that be reason to consider that there is no any singular self-subsequent substance("GOD" not the personal God from religions) ?

So stop talking about the design of the universe.

Why? The universe is so extremely complex that it couldn't have come about by anything but design. Two things prove this:
1. We have no evidence of complexity happening spontaneously. We don't have any example of true sponteneity at all!;
2. Entropy is essentially the breaking down of complexity. We don't have any example of entropy never existing. This means that the building of complexity has always had the rival, entropy, working against it. We have no evidence of anything that could make complexity, naturally. This means that something outside of nature designed the complexity that our universe is.

[af_newbie]

Design has a purpose and function.    

What is the purpose of the continued creation of spacetime?

If you say it is us here on Earth, we are done.

Ahm, I personally do not know the exact reason why it keeps on evolving as you have said the universe is too wide and as of the current technology that we have it is almost impossible to explain the unknown phenomenon. Wait then how can that be reason to consider that there is no any singular self-subsequent substance("GOD" not the personal God from religions) ?

So stop talking about the design of the universe.

Why? ...

To identify design you need to identify the purpose and the function first.  If you don't know what they are, the talk about the design is pointless. Out of your ass assertion, not much else.

Complexity is not design.  Entropy here on Earth is decreasing, BTW.  Thanks to the energy input from the Sun.

The universe is a violent, cruel place, Earth and everything on it might be wiped out by some random asteroid at any time.  Galaxies are colliding, wiping star systems in the process, as I type this post.  Chaos and destruction are unimaginable.

If you see design in it, you do not understand much.

[darklus123]

@af_newbie, why should I ? Have ever why I keep on insisting that there are things that are unknown in this universe? And that includes God of Baruch Spinoza. Even you cannot explain the reasons to me that only means that you also do not know it then  why still assume that it is certain that it is not existing?

I personally can't tell the exact reason but I can say that if  i am going to use my common sense the results of the explosions might be the reason why it happen. So  maybe that was designed to make such galaxies that existed right now or even before

[BADecker]

Design has a purpose and function.    

What is the purpose of the continued creation of spacetime?

If you say it is us here on Earth, we are done.

Ahm, I personally do not know the exact reason why it keeps on evolving as you have said the universe is too wide and as of the current technology that we have it is almost impossible to explain the unknown phenomenon. Wait then how can that be reason to consider that there is no any singular self-subsequent substance("GOD" not the personal God from religions) ?

So stop talking about the design of the universe.

Why? ...

To identify design you need to identify the purpose and the function first.  If you don't know what they are, the talk about the design is pointless. Out of your ass assertion, not much else.

Complexity is not design.  Entropy here on Earth is decreasing, BTW.  Thanks to the energy input from the Sun.

The universe is a violent, cruel place, Earth and everything on it might be wiped out by some random asteroid at any time.  Galaxies are colliding, wiping star systems in the process, as I type this post.  Chaos and destruction are unimaginable.

If you see design in it, you do not understand much.

It's a shame that nobody told you about pleasure, and that you indulge in pain, simply because you haven't been able to figure out that the purpose of life is to enjoy pleasure and avoid pain. It was out of your hands for your life to exist. You didn't really have any choice in the matter. But now that it does exist, seek the pleasure, and avoid the pain, by turning to God. There's your purpose.

Complexity doesn't happen by accident. Even though it is not design in itself, it has been designed. Some areas of entropy increase, while others wane. But overall, entropy is increasing, even if the rate of the increase is decreasing.

You really need to take a vacation to Bora Bora, or Tahiti in general. If you choose the enjoyment of those places rather than looking for some pain therein, you will find just how cruel the universe isn't. The fact that you aren't out there in the midst of the colliding galaxies shows that you are being spared from that pain. Btw, we don't know that galaxies are colliding. We are only trusting some light and electromagnetics that we see coming in.

All the atoms of everything operate according to physics laws. Even the raging tidal wave acts according to precise laws of physics. If you don't see design in all that exists, you are really not looking... or thinking.

[af_newbie]

..Even though it is not design in itself, it has been designed. ...

Because you wish it was?

Have you heard of confirmation bias?

You see the design because you want to have the universe designed by your (version) of your God.

BTW, mammals would never have evolved if it was not for a big asteroid wiping out 90% of life on Earth.

We would not be here if it was not for the accidents in our past.

Accidents continue, so stay tuned.

[BADecker]

..Even though it is not design in itself, it has been designed. ...

Because you wish it was?
We have two things to consider:
1. Interpretations of historical eye witness records;
2. Interpretations of the sciences.
Both of these are flawed. But the part of eye witness records that can't be misinterpreted, is the fact that there was and is intelligence that designed it all, and lives and controls it all right to the present.
Science shows intelligent design in other ways than the eye witness records, and also what appears to be random chaos. But the cause and effect aspect of science shows intelligent design, and that there has been no pure-random/pure-spontaneous-action found to contradict the intelligent design that science shows.

Have you heard of confirmation bias?
Both I, and science, have been trying to show you how you are using confirmation bias to ignore the fact that science shows intelligent design.

You see the design because you want to need to have the universe designed by your (version) of your God.
You don't see the design, because you want to need to have the universe flowing out of wild chaotic randomness. The random that we all see is the fact that we don't know everything. Two things exist regarding random:
1. Things that we know the cause of;
2. Things that we don't know the cause of.
So far we haven't found anything that has spontaneously come into existence without a cause. But we have found countless things that we can identify the cause of. As we move into the philosophy of this (because we can't easily stick this into the realm of science), we see lots of intelligence, simply in our using of philosophy. So even in philosophy we see God likeness. The only difference between us is the particular god/God. You claim to be your own (version) of your God, without realizing that you are doing so, simply by being able to intelligently design your thoughts, actions, and speaking/writing.

BTW, mammals would never have evolved if it was not for a big asteroid wiping out 90% of life on Earth.
You are partially right. The fact is that scientifically nothing would have evolved with or without an asteroid. Evolution as it stands in evolution theory is so far beyond any form of probability that it could happen, that it is impossible.

We would not be here if it was not for the accidents in our past.

Accidents continue, so stay tuned.

There are no accidents. Everything operates through cause and effect, exactly as it is programmed to operate according to the laws of physics. The idea that accidents exist is an intelligent misinterpretation of C&E, caused by C&E acting in those people who think that there are accidents.