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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3011302 times)
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August 30, 2013, 01:01:52 PM
 #7721

Don't feed the trolls.  They do a good enough job of feeding each other as it is...
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August 30, 2013, 01:03:15 PM
 #7722

Don't feed the trolls.  They do a good enough job of feeding each other as it is...

circle jerks refreshing kncminer.com/news/ page praying for roi... are not trolls
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August 30, 2013, 01:03:56 PM
 #7723

yeah but preordes were placed and...

AVALON chips, clones - clients are doomed
90% bfl customers are doomed
75% KNC miners will be not profitable for sure
october bitfury units will not make roi in 2 years
VNC, hashfast, monarch, cointerra preorders were placed unvisely too.

So basically what you're saying is that everyone will unprofitable? So they will turn off their miners?

So in about a year's time, I can start CPU mining again? Shocked Awesome.

 Grin Roll Eyes

No.  People will mine until electricity costs become greater than bitcoins mined.  This guarantees that the difficulty will climb, but ROI?  Lolz.
In other words, people will mine to limit their losses, to *partially* amortise miner costs, but yes, everyone but the manufacturers will lose money.
Pre-order.
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August 30, 2013, 01:04:07 PM
 #7724

There is a trade off between buying mining hardware and BTC. As soon as mining seems to lose its profitability buying BTC becomes more attractive to investors. I think you can already see this happening as the price of BTC has been steadily rising the past two months. When BTC value reaches a certain point mining hardware starts to look more attractive again for its price and more people will start to invest in hardware again. This process will keep repeating itself striving towards an equilibrium between the two. It's quite beautiful to observe actually. Smiley

Bitcoin = Gold on steroids
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August 30, 2013, 01:06:10 PM
 #7725

There is a trade off between buying mining hardware and BTC. As soon as mining seems to lose its profitability buying BTC becomes more attractive to investors. I think you can already see this happening as the price of BTC has been steadily rising the past two months. When BTC value reaches a certain point mining hardware starts to look more attractive again for its price and more people will start to invest in hardware again. This process will keep repeating itself striving towards an equilibrium between the two. It's quite beautiful to observe actually. Smiley

never mine just buy was the best strategy so far...
bye bye bitcoins placed on preorders Smiley
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August 30, 2013, 01:06:17 PM
 #7726

unprofitable i mean not even with electricy cost... but more
when your investment is 5000$
and you are getting 5$ per month after costs
you will need 10 years of mining Smiley

ok your saturn will make roi in next 20 years if you order today.
is it profitable for you ?

babysiting miner, hear loud and changing fans/paste for next 1000 weeks ?

If that's the case, people would not even bother to run their miner. But that time is very far off. We're not there yet.

Could be in 2 years time. Also depends on the price of bitcoins.

But we're talking about KNC here. They would have profited long before the cost of electricity is just a little under the cost of bitcoins mined.

Do some calculations and you'll see. But then again, not everyone has the brains or guts. People could always not buy or refund if they are too worried about not making ROI.
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August 30, 2013, 01:15:26 PM
 #7727

Mining manufacturers in the future - well I see a hard future for them. Imagine trying to convince people to buy your 50th/s for $1000 with ROI in 5 years.

No-one is going to buy it.

The Future = difficulty will be at just above even of electricity costs. So the real winners in the future are people who can afford low electricity rates and own an efficient-low priced-high spec miner.
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August 30, 2013, 01:15:30 PM
 #7728

Hi everybody,

We are Swedish miners that are producing our own ASIC miners to strengthen the market and avoid monopoly.
Our company kncminer is pleased to announce the opening of a brand new web shop dedicated to the online sale of Bitcoin hardware to the international community, www.kncminer.com.

A lot of scam sites are appearing every day and we are not one of them, therefore we will not take any orders and are only registering interest.

We will in the upcoming weeks opening our order book to allow the purchase of our first set of ASIC miners. They are in the early stages of development now
and will be ready in the summer of 2013 (yes in just a few months)
Register an account now it’s completely free and if you subscribe to our newsletter we will alert you the moment we open the order books for entry and other information around the ASIC products.
If you have any questions we will be happy to answer them.

Happy mining


ok summer is ending and you dont have chips
bfl case
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August 30, 2013, 01:16:20 PM
 #7729

knc miners are not profitable. deal with it.

How? Prove it. Figures. You're spreading fud. The genesis block calc has so many more functions than the default most of the newbies in this forum are concentrating on (or those currently attempting to scare people).

For the default calculations to transpire over time the network would have to continuously double in a linear fashion time and time again. Impossible. Never going to happen.

Say 3,000 units are shipped in Oct, that would require 6,000 in November, the 12,000 in December, then 24,000 come Jan, 48,000 in February, 96,000 in March, 192,000 units delivered in April, 384,000 units in may, 768,000 units in June.

Can you honestly see this as even remotely realistic?!? It's ridiculous.

Knc, and whoever else are never going to manufacture and sell that many devices. Sure you can 'scale production' to a few thousand a month, and i've chosen 3,000 as an achievable figure, but the doubling, and doubling, and doubling. There's some seriously naive people in this forum.

I actually wrote to the Genesis Block and asked them to address this. I suggested they allow us to enter achievable figures of prouction for various manufacturers, and the dates by which those products are likely to be introduced to give more realistic scenarios, which they like, as it's the most sensible way to approach this, and they agreed, they like the idea.

In the mean time there's a constant increase per month option (MM) which can be used instead of the nutty (%) that is there by default. I may even write up a tutorial as people seem reluctant to play with the calc as it's quite useful if you know how to use it properly, which apparently a significant percentage of this forum can't. It's got to the point where it's just laughable and it's being used purposely to scare away small miners, which in turn will effect the distribution of the network. It's just beyond comprehension how the majority of people in this forum think a compounded increase in network harhrate is feasible over the long term!!

Certainly in this period of transition as GPU farms dies out and ASICs are introduced there are solid doubles of network over time, but if you think KnC, or Cointerra will be able to manufacture in excess of 5,000 units a month you're a complete idiot.

Oh, the innocent, unbridled optimism of the little ones!  It melts my black little heart and microwaves it on "low" for 5 minutes.
Then i remember how many *other* ASIC companies are coming to our party, each with shitty table manners, to hoover up our delicious caek.

TL;DR:  With all the pre-order schemes maturing just around the same time, mining will be unprofitable.  For just about everyone.  Because preorder.

If only it were as simple as that.  If mining companies' prices are too high for anyone to see ROI, eventually that will result in no one ordering them.  So then the difficulty levels off and it becomes profitable again.  It's not a linear system, and it's much more difficult to predict profitability than you claim.

Do you understand what pre-order means?  
Once you placed your pre-order*, you lose your choice to "not buy" if the price makes no sense.  You either mine, or put your miner into a Hefty garbage bag & set it on the curb.  If, by the time you receive your miner, it becomes blatantly obvious that said miner will never ROI, wat do?  

*KNC pre-orders made through PayPal leave open a refund option, but that's not the case for most pre-orders -- those are locked in.

Huh?  Your point now is that if we'll never get ROI then we'll... what?  Never get ROI?  Thanks for that brilliant tautology.

The question here is about odds of achieving ROI which I said is very difficult to predict.  Do you want to address that or not?
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August 30, 2013, 01:24:30 PM
 #7730

yeah but preordes were placed and...

AVALON chips, clones - clients are doomed
90% bfl customers are doomed
75% KNC miners will be not profitable for sure
october bitfury units will not make roi in 2 years
VNC, hashfast, monarch, cointerra preorders were placed unvisely too.

So basically what you're saying is that everyone will unprofitable? So they will turn off their miners?

So in about a year's time, I can start CPU mining again? Shocked Awesome.

 Grin Roll Eyes

unprofitable i mean not even with electricy cost... but more
when your investment is 5000$
and you are getting 5$ per month after costs
you will need 10 years of mining Smiley

ok your saturn will make roi in next 20 years if you order today.
is it profitable for you ?

babysiting miner, hear loud and changing fans/paste for next 1000 weeks ?



for a jupiter to make 5 $ per month difficulty would need to reach 20 000 mio.
that is 300 x more then the current difficulty.
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August 30, 2013, 01:26:01 PM
 #7731

Mining manufacturers in the future - well I see a hard future for them. Imagine trying to convince people to buy your 50th/s for $1000 with ROI in 5 years.

No-one is going to buy it.

The Future = difficulty will be at just above even of electricity costs. So the real winners in the future are people who can afford low electricity rates and own an efficient-low priced-high spec miner.

That does seem like what the endgame will be.

Mining will be done only by those with low (or no) electrical cost.  However that isn't so rare.  Most of the world population needs to heat their house in the winter, so running a miner is low or no cost because you need the heat anyway.  It just depends on what the other sources of heat are in the house.  And of course, running a miner in the summer would cost double the electricity - the consumption of the miner itself, plus the extra load on the air conditioner to remove the waste heat.
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August 30, 2013, 01:26:55 PM
 #7732

I kind of feel like all this mining hardware is going to pay off, in USD, not so much in btc. Not even close in terms of bitcoins, but it will be huge to the exchange rate.
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August 30, 2013, 01:27:40 PM
 #7733

I kind of feel like all this mining hardware is going to pay off, in USD, not so much in btc. Not even close in terms of bitcoins, but it will be huge to the exchange rate.

That makes no sense.  If it doesn't pay off in bitcoins, then you're better off buying bitcoins instead of a miner.
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August 30, 2013, 01:29:06 PM
 #7734

yeah but preordes were placed and...

AVALON chips, clones - clients are doomed
90% bfl customers are doomed
75% KNC miners will be not profitable for sure
october bitfury units will not make roi in 2 years
VNC, hashfast, monarch, cointerra preorders were placed unvisely too.

So basically what you're saying is that everyone will unprofitable? So they will turn off their miners?

So in about a year's time, I can start CPU mining again? Shocked Awesome.

 Grin Roll Eyes

unprofitable i mean not even with electricy cost... but more
when your investment is 5000$
and you are getting 5$ per month after costs
you will need 10 years of mining Smiley

ok your saturn will make roi in next 20 years if you order today.
is it profitable for you ?

babysiting miner, hear loud and changing fans/paste for next 1000 weeks ?



for a jupiter to make 5 $ per month difficulty would need to reach 20 000 mio.
that is 300 x more then the current difficulty.

no.
10 000 mio
http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/3ca7c693b8
according to that, about may 2014

ok say that mining calculator is bullshit
Wink
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August 30, 2013, 01:32:15 PM
 #7735

...
Do you understand what pre-order means?  
Once you placed your pre-order*, you lose your choice to "not buy" if the price makes no sense.  You either mine, or put your miner into a Hefty garbage bag & set it on the curb.  If, by the time you receive your miner, it becomes blatantly obvious that said miner will never ROI, wat do?  

*KNC pre-orders made through PayPal leave open a refund option, but that's not the case for most pre-orders -- those are locked in.

Huh?  Your point now is that if we'll never get ROI then we'll... what?  Never get ROI?  Thanks for that brilliant tautology.

The question here is about odds of achieving ROI which I said is very difficult to predict.  Do you want to address that or not?

No.  My point is people will continue to mine as long as the price of BTC is greater than the cost of electricity burned to produce them.  This doesn't suggest anything close to ROI.
My secondary point:  I'm willing to answer your questions, no matter how silly they are.  What would you like me to address, now?
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August 30, 2013, 01:36:35 PM
 #7736

Personally I'd calculate KNC if it's profitable or not by $ not BTC. Since it was purchased by fiat and not bitcoins (paypal/bank transfer etc).
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August 30, 2013, 01:36:53 PM
 #7737

I kind of feel like all this mining hardware is going to pay off, in USD, not so much in btc. Not even close in terms of bitcoins, but it will be huge to the exchange rate.

That makes no sense.  If it doesn't pay off in bitcoins, then you're better off buying bitcoins instead of a miner.

Exactly. I think all the preordered mining equipment is going to be used for mining. nobody will ever make back the same amount of bitcoins as they paid, but people won't sell their bitcoins for less than it cost them to mine them.

Double the price of bitcoins though, and you doubled the profitability of mining. A miner that cost 70btc @ $100/btc will only cost 35btc @ $200/btc, meaning you only have to mine half as much to break even.

I think there are going to be a few doublings over the next few months.
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August 30, 2013, 01:39:57 PM
 #7738

Personally I'd calculate KNC if it's profitable or not by $ not BTC. Since it was purchased by fiat and not bitcoins (paypal/bank transfer etc).

Too bad for all the suckers who paid in bitcoins though, eh? Especially since you can't get a bitcoin refund.
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August 30, 2013, 01:42:18 PM
 #7739

Too bad for all the suckers who paid in bitcoins though, eh? Especially since you can't get a bitcoin refund.

KNC does bank transfer refunds Wink

At current value. Not your original amount of bitcoins.

They don't hold any bitcoins or at least I don't think so.

All they got are fiat. Bitpay > Fiat > KNC
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August 30, 2013, 01:44:31 PM
 #7740

...
It is bullshit, 10,000,000,000 Difficulty is around 76/PH or 126 time more hashrate than is there today.

To put this in perspective that is 190,000 Jupiters sold - $950,000,000 at $5,000/each.

Do you see this being realistic?

Let's assume by May 2014 the $/GH is around $3.

That makes the Jupiters $1200/each for 400GH - 190,000 x $1,200 = $228,000,000

Do you see THAT even being realistic?

You must be retarded if you think $228,000,000 at a MINIMUM is going to be spent from now until May 2014 on Hashrate

BG, when you make these projections, you're making a bunch of assumptions that are unjustified -- $/GH/s, and extrapolations on miner costs.  Don't forget, ASIC companies self-mine.  You're also assuming ASIC tech to be at its zenith now -- that's not the case.  
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