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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3039464 times)
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August 30, 2013, 03:54:57 PM
 #7781

Cheer up, kids -- we broke 142 on Gox once already Smiley

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August 30, 2013, 04:02:26 PM
 #7782

And what do you buy bitcoins with?

He's right. The initial cost is in flat not BTC which you've had to buy or obtain in some way that cost you flat.
I could just as easily say that I could make more trading BTC with leverage, or trading gold....but that's not the point, nor the topic of this thread...it's about KnC Miners and mining.


The initial cost can be fiat or BTC, since KNC accepts bitpay.  If a Jupiter is 60 BTC and you don't think it will pay back > 60 BTC then you shouldn't buy one.  

Keep in mind, a lot of people are using bitcoins that they got from GPU mining, and are investing in order to increase their BTC holdings.

Some people are investing in USD in order to increase their USD, and may just sell all the BTC they mine. Other people are investing in BTC they already have and want to increase their BTC holdings. For the second group the price is irrelevant as far as their ROI is concerned.

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August 30, 2013, 04:04:03 PM
 #7783

Ok. I asked this in another thread already, but HERE, I particularly do not understand where a lot of you are coming from.

First off, no matter what you WILL achieve ROI, so I have to assume you mean POSITIVE ROI. But even given that niggle, there is virtually no way these machines will not reach break even in a fairly short time, after which your only ongoing expense is electricity, which is not that great of an expense on these devices.

So, those of you crying "no ROI" over and over again, WHAT FREAKIN" TIME FRAME ARE YOU TRYING TO BEAT?Huh

Any frickin' timeframe.  Please see here.

Quote
I mean really. An ivestment that is likely to break even in less than a year??? That's insanely positive by most any business metric you care to apply! ...

If you don't break even in a year, you never will.  Never.  Unless conventional difficulty predictions are just a bunch of fud, spread by evol gobment infiltrators.

Total bollocks.
So..in 5 years from now BTC are $10k exchange...explain to me how what you said can be true? Also..how you know that or something similar can't happen? That was the point he was making and he's spot on. At the end of the day the exchange rate of BTC is everything when deciding if your investment in a miner profits or not.

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carlotech
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August 30, 2013, 04:05:16 PM
 #7784

+1
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August 30, 2013, 04:06:55 PM
 #7785

Ok. I asked this in another thread already, but HERE, I particularly do not understand where a lot of you are coming from.

First off, no matter what you WILL achieve ROI, so I have to assume you mean POSITIVE ROI. But even given that niggle, there is virtually no way these machines will not reach break even in a fairly short time, after which your only ongoing expense is electricity, which is not that great of an expense on these devices.

So, those of you crying "no ROI" over and over again, WHAT FREAKIN" TIME FRAME ARE YOU TRYING TO BEAT?Huh

Any frickin' timeframe.  Please see here.

Quote
I mean really. An ivestment that is likely to break even in less than a year??? That's insanely positive by most any business metric you care to apply! ...

If you don't break even in a year, you never will.  Never.  Unless conventional difficulty predictions are just a bunch of fud, spread by evol gobment infiltrators.

Total bollocks.
So..in 5 years from now BTC are $10k exchange...explain to me how what you said can be true? Also..how you know that or something similar can't happen? That was the point he was making and he's spot on. At the end of the day the exchange rate of BTC is everything when deciding if your investment in a miner profits or not.


Let me rephrase it:



Edit:  Difficulty chart:

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August 30, 2013, 04:15:01 PM
 #7786

The only way the difficulty can keep growing exponentially is if the price continues to grow exponentially.  If BTC is worth $10k, then it's possible people might actually spend $200 million on mining gear, as the total amount of bitcoin mined in a year would be $13 billion dollars, instead 130 million a year.

But in that case, of course, old mining gear will still be profitable - I made more with my GPUs/day in late 2012 then I did in the middle of 2012.

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August 30, 2013, 04:25:26 PM
 #7787

Ok. I asked this in another thread already, but HERE, I particularly do not understand where a lot of you are coming from.

First off, no matter what you WILL achieve ROI, so I have to assume you mean POSITIVE ROI. But even given that niggle, there is virtually no way these machines will not reach break even in a fairly short time, after which your only ongoing expense is electricity, which is not that great of an expense on these devices.

So, those of you crying "no ROI" over and over again, WHAT FREAKIN" TIME FRAME ARE YOU TRYING TO BEAT?Huh

Any frickin' timeframe.  Please see here.

Quote
I mean really. An ivestment that is likely to break even in less than a year??? That's insanely positive by most any business metric you care to apply! ...

If you don't break even in a year, you never will.  Never.  Unless conventional difficulty predictions are just a bunch of fud, spread by evol gobment infiltrators.

Total bollocks.
So..in 5 years from now BTC are $10k exchange...explain to me how what you said can be true? Also..how you know that or something similar can't happen? That was the point he was making and he's spot on. At the end of the day the exchange rate of BTC is everything when deciding if your investment in a miner profits or not.


Let me rephrase it:

http://s11.postimg.org/fgjq8ogab/image.gif

Edit:  Difficulty chart:
http://s23.postimg.org/np6qrembv/Capture.jpg



Yes, because things that go up will always and forever continue to go up.

It is law. 

Everyone knows this because there are no examples of charts, even of something as parabolic as this one, ever having crashed.  It is impossible to find one.  I simply defy anyone to find a real-world example, much less one using Bitcoin Difficulty, to illustrate otherwise.

I expect that someday this particular curve will bend back on itself and begin to reverse time, simply due to the extreme amount of hashing power.
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August 30, 2013, 04:35:01 PM
 #7788

Ok. I asked this in another thread already, but HERE, I particularly do not understand where a lot of you are coming from.

First off, no matter what you WILL achieve ROI, so I have to assume you mean POSITIVE ROI. But even given that niggle, there is virtually no way these machines will not reach break even in a fairly short time, after which your only ongoing expense is electricity, which is not that great of an expense on these devices.

So, those of you crying "no ROI" over and over again, WHAT FREAKIN" TIME FRAME ARE YOU TRYING TO BEAT?Huh

Any frickin' timeframe.  Please see here.

Quote
I mean really. An ivestment that is likely to break even in less than a year??? That's insanely positive by most any business metric you care to apply! ...

If you don't break even in a year, you never will.  Never.  Unless conventional difficulty predictions are just a bunch of fud, spread by evol gobment infiltrators.

Total bollocks.
So..in 5 years from now BTC are $10k exchange...explain to me how what you said can be true? Also..how you know that or something similar can't happen? That was the point he was making and he's spot on. At the end of the day the exchange rate of BTC is everything when deciding if your investment in a miner profits or not.


Let me rephrase it:



Edit:  Difficulty chart:




Yes, because things that go up will always and forever continue to go up.

It is law.  

Everyone knows this because there are no examples of charts, even of something as parabolic as this one, ever having crashed.  It is impossible to find one.  I simply defy anyone to find a real-world example, much less one using Bitcoin Difficulty, to illustrate otherwise.

I expect that someday this particular curve will bend back on itself and begin to reverse time, simply due to the extreme amount of hashing power.

I'm not arguing that the difficulty rate will continue to climb perpetually -- the universe itself tends toward entropy, but we're talking about short-term predictions here -- nothing more than 4 month.  If you think that we can not predict anything at all, your point is valid -- i can't prove to you that the sun will rise tomorrow, or that two apples placed next to another two apples will inevitably result in four apples.  
So, sure, nothing here is carved in stone, but betting against the growth continuing is betting against the odds.
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August 30, 2013, 04:35:38 PM
 #7789

Ok. I asked this in another thread already, but HERE, I particularly do not understand where a lot of you are coming from.

First off, no matter what you WILL achieve ROI, so I have to assume you mean POSITIVE ROI. But even given that niggle, there is virtually no way these machines will not reach break even in a fairly short time, after which your only ongoing expense is electricity, which is not that great of an expense on these devices.

So, those of you crying "no ROI" over and over again, WHAT FREAKIN" TIME FRAME ARE YOU TRYING TO BEAT?Huh

Any frickin' timeframe.  Please see here.

Quote
I mean really. An ivestment that is likely to break even in less than a year??? That's insanely positive by most any business metric you care to apply! ...

If you don't break even in a year, you never will.  Never.  Unless conventional difficulty predictions are just a bunch of fud, spread by evol gobment infiltrators.

Damn am I tired of seeing estimates from the TGB calculator. If your link to TGB is going to be accurate, we will need to see 1.6 Ph added to the network every week between December and May. In total, that amounts to just over 5 times all pre-orders for all companies who have currently offered pre-orders ..then consider how people around here are already reluctant to spend money on miners when we are not even 1% to 1 billion difficulty. Now, unless Intel decides they'd like to produce a miner, 28nm efficiency is going to become the de facto. That puts an equilibrium of slight profitability with a $100 BTC and electrical costs for the average person when difficulty is at about 15 billion. If manufacturers want to continue selling mining rigs, they'll have to be very near $1-$1.5 per Gh when difficulty is at only 3-5 billion. Then again, maybe TGB will be correct with the jumps in difficulty of 4, 10, or eventually 40 billion in a single month.  Roll Eyes

Anyway, this thread has gone to shit. Is it even 1 in 10 posts is on topic anymore?

13.5 PH in march
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=283820.0
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August 30, 2013, 04:36:00 PM
 #7790

Ok. I asked this in another thread already, but HERE, I particularly do not understand where a lot of you are coming from.

First off, no matter what you WILL achieve ROI, so I have to assume you mean POSITIVE ROI. But even given that niggle, there is virtually no way these machines will not reach break even in a fairly short time, after which your only ongoing expense is electricity, which is not that great of an expense on these devices.

So, those of you crying "no ROI" over and over again, WHAT FREAKIN" TIME FRAME ARE YOU TRYING TO BEAT?Huh

Any frickin' timeframe.  Please see here.

Quote
I mean really. An ivestment that is likely to break even in less than a year??? That's insanely positive by most any business metric you care to apply! ...

If you don't break even in a year, you never will.  Never.  Unless conventional difficulty predictions are just a bunch of fud, spread by evol gobment infiltrators.

Total bollocks.
So..in 5 years from now BTC are $10k exchange...explain to me how what you said can be true? Also..how you know that or something similar can't happen? That was the point he was making and he's spot on. At the end of the day the exchange rate of BTC is everything when deciding if your investment in a miner profits or not.


Even if bitcoin is $10k if 5 years, that isn't relevant.  At any point in time if your rig cannot earn more bitcoins in a week than it costs in electricity (given that week's btc -> dollar exchange rate) you should turn it off.  Why?  Because you'd get more bitcoins buying them at an exchange than buying electricity to mine.

Also if bitcoin goes to $10k you can bet your sweet ass that difficulty will rise to match, and unless your miner is one of the most efficient (or you pay very little for power), you will not see profit.
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August 30, 2013, 04:43:47 PM
 #7791


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Not available

This device is being designed in parallel by the ORSoC engineers and will offer industry leading performance and power consumption per GH.

The final specifications for this device are being ironed out now but we can confirm the following.

    100GH/s per device.
    Maximum 250w
    28nm standard cell ASIC Chips (which are being designed exclusively for KnCMiner by ORSoC).

$ 1,995.00
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August 30, 2013, 04:44:55 PM
 #7792

https://www.kncminer.com/news

Quote
Small Update
8/30/2013 2:01:00 PM
Ok so a few of announcements;
....
Finally we wish to confirm that yes we are still on track for our delivery towards the end of September.

Thanks,

KnCMiner Team.

www.kncminer.com

ok. so no chips, no working boards with thoose chips, no stability tests etc.
3 weeks left
good luck, bfl has chips few months before delivery, you have no chips and 3 weeks.


Yes Where are those chips? KnC Miner news today was 1) Slogan 2) The winner of the Slogan 3) Printing of Slogan on Controller Board, 4)
Configure their own Cgminer 5) Power Supplies 6) Still on track for September delivery and 7) Nothing on the Chips, Never say anything about the Chips? Why? We Wonder Why?


Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful:
34qMeWBdbF47TH65SzWg9iva4M6KvWGPD2
Thanks in advance Smiley
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August 30, 2013, 04:57:23 PM
 #7793

Small Update

....



you are late.

come on guys. do not pollute the thread more than it already is . and yes it still is quite polluted also after ignoring the most frequent trolls. really, read the few last thread pages before posting is not that difficult.  

(@fragout sorry for taking you as an example, nothing personal)

Bitcoin is a participatory system which ought to respect the right of self determinism of all of its users - Gregory Maxwell.
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August 30, 2013, 04:58:43 PM
 #7794

Small Update

....



you are late.

come on guys. do not pollute the thread more than it already is . and yes it still is quite polluted also after ignoring the most frequent trolls. really, read the few last thread pages before posting is not that difficult.  

(@fragout sorry for taking you as an example, nothing personal)

Don't ignore me I was only messing with the trolls.

Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful:
34qMeWBdbF47TH65SzWg9iva4M6KvWGPD2
Thanks in advance Smiley
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August 30, 2013, 04:59:56 PM
 #7795

Almost half of the (almost) 400 pages of this thread is people "messing with trolls".  Please don't...
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August 30, 2013, 05:01:11 PM
 #7796


[/quote]


you are late.

come on guys. do not pollute the thread more than it already is . and yes it still is quite polluted also after ignoring the most frequent trolls. really, read the few last thread pages before posting is not that difficult.  

(@fragout sorry for taking you as an example, nothing personal)
[/quote]

np. I did in fact go back a page or two and didn't notice any comments about the update. post deleted
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August 30, 2013, 05:01:25 PM
 #7797

bitfury chips already hashing at 0.8W/Gh with 55nm chip (which exist months and whole progress is documented), and KNC have non existing 28nm chip with predicted twice power consumption. (just facts, nothing else)

why KNC can't show us the chip to double their sales and calm this almost 400 pages thread? Honestly, I'm not hardware designer or software engineer, but I'm not sure, if they are able to do all steps around and start shipping complete working units until 3 weeks.

I don't want to ask for refund, start flame or bitching KNC crew here, but some REAL explanation about progress will be really nice. Statement "we are still on track for our delivery towards the end of September" is not enough for thousands dollars orders when we have got end of August
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August 30, 2013, 05:01:27 PM
 #7798

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WHAT THESE MEAN FINAL???
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Hell?


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August 30, 2013, 05:01:50 PM
 #7799

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WHAT THESE MEAN FINAL???

what?!
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August 30, 2013, 05:05:18 PM
 #7800

Small Update

....



you are late.

come on guys. do not pollute the thread more than it already is . and yes it still is quite polluted also after ignoring the most frequent trolls. really, read the few last thread pages before posting is not that difficult.  

(@fragout sorry for taking you as an example, nothing personal)

Don't ignore me I was only messing with the trolls.

don't worry dude, you're still out of my black list.

you've to be really irritating and sound like a broken record to be included.

Bitcoin is a participatory system which ought to respect the right of self determinism of all of its users - Gregory Maxwell.
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