Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[RoomBot]

Here's another load of superficial tosh he wrote:

http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/why-bitcoin-is-a-bubble-by-nouriel-roubini-2018-01

He's got half a million followers paid bots.

FTFY

[jojo69]

looking like a sideways breakout is in progress until early feb ...

We have a rising log support currently 9700ish (GDAX) that we risk breaking if we are sideways too long

[HairyMaclairy]

Wheee ?

[jojo69]

RED ALERT!

ENGAGE 1 MINUTE CANDLES!

FUD shields full forward

[bitserve]

I recall that there are some folks researching into ways that they can either use the heat or generate some additional electricity from the mining heat by-product.

I have had some discussions with power station engineers.  The crux of it is that low grade heat (anything that is not hot enough to boil water) is considered a waste product and dumped to the atmosphere.  And these are fancy, high efficiency co-gen plants.  

 So it seems pretty unlikely that they will be able to generate electricity if not producing over 100 C (which I assume not).

My information is about 8 years old so it is possibly out of date.  

In theory it could be used in a preheating (to around 50 centigrade) stage of a larger process... but yes electric heating is dumb, inefficient and probably not really worth it to integrate in a power generation plant.

It would maybe make some sense in some very cold places where the heat could perhaps be used for central heating though.

[toknormal]

RED ALERT!

ENGAGE 1 MINUTE CANDLES!

FUD shields full forward

Yeah. Price and On Balance Volume have been telling opposite stories lately. $7500 incoming. Then $5k, then $2k, then moon after that ; )

[smartcomet]

Dot-com Bubble Vs Blockchain Bubble

Date: 1997-2001 | 2009-?
Marketcap: 6T | ? (0.6T now)
Survivors:  eBay, Amazon.com  |  Bitcoin, ?

Will coinmarketcap be 10T, and BTC be 6.6T(Gold marketcap)?

[Last of the V8s]

Dot-com Bubble Vs Blockchain Bubble

Date: 1997-2001 | 2009-?
Marketcap: 6T | ? (0.6T now)
Survivors:  eBay, Amazon.com  |  Bitcoin, ?

Will coinmarketcap be 10T, and BTC be 6.6T(Gold marketcap)?

briefly.
then moon.

[JayJuanGee]

I recall that there are some folks researching into ways that they can either use the heat or generate some additional electricity from the mining heat by-product.

I have had some discussions with power station engineers.  The crux of it is that low grade heat (anything that is not hot enough to boil water) is considered a waste product and dumped to the atmosphere.  And these are fancy, high efficiency co-gen plants.  

 So it seems pretty unlikely that they will be able to generate electricity if not producing over 100 C (which I assume not).

My information is about 8 years old so it is possibly out of date.  

In theory it could be used in a preheating (to around 50 centigrade) stage of a larger process... but yes electric heating is dumb, inefficient and probably not really worth it to integrate in a power generation plant.

It would maybe make some sense in some very cold places where the heat could perhaps be used for central heating though.

Yes...even though many of us likely realize that heat generation is going to come in handy in really cold locations; however, it seems that your preheating idea has to be worth something, even if such preheating is not bringing the temperature to an actual boil (that generates steam with some the current powerful electricity generation methods)...  and I suppose that part of my point is that if there is ongoing research into such lower heat thresholds, there could be ways to generate energy with temperature thresholds that are below boiling   

- I feel like I am devolving from BTC price speculation down to random brainstorming regarding energy generation speculation with little to no grounding.   

[jojo69]

Yes...even though many of us likely realize that heat generation is going to come in handy in really cold locations; however, it seems that your preheating idea has to be worth something, even if such preheating is not bringing the temperature to an actual boil (that generates steam with some the current powerful electricity generation methods)...  and I suppose that part of my point is that if there is ongoing research into such lower heat thresholds, there could be ways to generate energy with temperature thresholds that are below boiling   

- I feel like I am devolving from BTC price speculation down to random brainstorming regarding energy generation speculation with little to no grounding.   

Lots of industrial processes produce waste heat.

If it is not worth implementing co-gen on a fucking aluminum smelter it sure as hell is not going to be on a mining farm.

Not criticizing, Jay, I find a lot of folks, particularly idealists, frequently speculate about all sorts of possible energy sources, but the reality is that if it was economic to do it the market would.

We can't even really harvest solar and wind yet without subsidies.

[bitserve]

Yes...even though many of us likely realize that heat generation is going to come in handy in really cold locations; however, it seems that your preheating idea has to be worth something, even if such preheating is not bringing the temperature to an actual boil (that generates steam with some the current powerful electricity generation methods)...  and I suppose that part of my point is that if there is ongoing research into such lower heat thresholds, there could be ways to generate energy with temperature thresholds that are below boiling  

- I feel like I am devolving from BTC price speculation down to random brainstorming regarding energy generation speculation with little to no grounding.    

Yup, same feeling here, it would be better if we would let that to the experts... but I guess some "random brainstorming" during this "slow" BTC movements isn't that bad.

Problem with the preheating idea is that it is in fact just A pre-heating. As in ONCE. After that you come up with just below boiling temperature that is too high to cool the chips so you cant do it again. Maybe using ethanol (which boiling point is around 78.5 C) and asics that could run efficiently at over 90 C there could be some reasonable margin, but I doubt it.

Using it as central heating... well... maybe the infrastructure costs are higher than the gain. Electrical heating is VERY inefficient, as in 3-4 times less efficient than a simple heat-pump system.

If there are no "transport" cost as in someone that runs several miners at home in a very cold place... well, then yes, he can "reuse" some of the heat even if it is inefficiently generated... But I can't see how it would be worth it to integrate into a more complex system. Not saying it is completely impossible though.

It is better the current trend of making more efficient miners so that less heat is wasted in the process. Maybe it will come a time in which they don't even need active cooling except for massive mining plants.

Oh well... it is easier to just keep watching Bitcoin action to try see where it is going

[explorer]

We can't even really harvest solar and wind yet without subsidies.

We can, its just that coal/nuke/dams are paid for(subsidized) by future generations, and current society doesn't count that in any way.

[Dabs]

The only place I could think of for miners would be a cold basement, or a cold car garage. Prevent pipes from bursting. Or pre-heat your vehicle in the winter so it can start without cranking too hard on the batteries.

[JayJuanGee]

Yes...even though many of us likely realize that heat generation is going to come in handy in really cold locations; however, it seems that your preheating idea has to be worth something, even if such preheating is not bringing the temperature to an actual boil (that generates steam with some the current powerful electricity generation methods)...  and I suppose that part of my point is that if there is ongoing research into such lower heat thresholds, there could be ways to generate energy with temperature thresholds that are below boiling  

- I feel like I am devolving from BTC price speculation down to random brainstorming regarding energy generation speculation with little to no grounding.    

Lots of industrial processes produce waste heat.

If it is not worth implementing co-gen on a fucking aluminum smelter it sure as hell is not going to be on a mining farm.

Not criticizing, Jay, I find a lot of folks, particularly idealists, frequently speculate about all sorts of possible energy sources, but the reality is that if it was economic to do it the market would.

We can't even really harvest solar and wind yet without subsidies.

Fair enough that I am speculating about something that I don't really know...


But you likely realize that I am not going to give up so easily, even if I don't know shit about the actual significance of the difference between preheating and boil, because there is the future.....  

And, it looks like this:




 


or worse case scenario, it looks like this:

[jojo69]

We can't even really harvest solar and wind yet without subsidies.

We can, its just that coal/nuke/dams are paid for(subsidized) by future generations, and current society doesn't count that in any way.

Absolutely agree.

We lack a mechanism for pricing the externalities of many technologies, fossil energy being perhaps the largest, no question.

Humans being what they are, I fear we will kick that can wayyyyy too far down the road, perhaps we already have.

[STT]

We can't even really harvest solar and wind yet without subsidies.

I thought Solar had become feasible now.    Not far from my house there is a solar farm that is feeding an oil refinery pretty sure (ironic).   Now the weird thing is where I live its not even that sunny but apparently they've produced something usable in a field for the factory, maybe because it can be placed so close.     The solar farm is next to a school which a normal power station couldnt do.

I rate hydro power over solar but it needs further development.    I also live a mile away from the worlds largest tidal range resource, they dont use it... So lots of waste and inefficiency remains sadly

Yeah. Price and On Balance Volume have been telling opposite stories lately. $7500 incoming. Then $5k, then $2k, then moon after that ; )

I noticed this also but I dont agree with your conclusion exactly.  It only means right now a possible weakness lies, chart predictions are always possible scenarios or so the more experienced people I listen to say so.
A decades long trader whose covered crypto some for a while: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOLs46mTO2c

[bitserve]

What's up with ethereum? It doesn't make ANY sense to me. Especially not now that Bitcoin's mempool is "ok" and LN going forward...

[jojo69]

I thought Solar had become feasible now.    Not far from my house there is a solar farm that is feeding an oil refinery pretty sure (ironic).   Now the weird thing is where I live its not even that sunny but apparently they've produced something usable in a field for the factory, maybe because it can be placed so close.     The solar farm is next to a school which a normal power station couldnt do.

I rate hydro power over solar but it needs further development.    I also live a mile away from the worlds largest tidal range resource, they dont use it... So lots of waste and inefficiency remains sadly

My understanding, and I'm not claiming to be 100% up on the latest, things are changing all the time, is that photovoltaics have only become a net EROI positive in the last 2 years or so...just the panel itself.  Then you have deployment and associated infrastructure.  We are close, right around break even in a pure energy sense, but remember that PV manufacture has its own externalities.  It is a hugely polluting endeavor utilizing, as I understand it, dubiously sourced rare earth minerals.

Hydro has its own issues, here in the US Pacific North West we have pretty much destroyed our anadromous fisheries resource.  We have even resorted to limited dam removal.

Tidal has promise, but thus far the practical obstacles to placing infrastructure in such a violent and corrosive environment have proved insurmountable.

[HairyMaclairy]

What's up with ethereum? It doesn't make ANY sense to me. Especially not now that Bitcoin's mempool is "ok" and LN going forward...

Bitcoin is missing the ability to create tokens. We need token side chains.

[mymenace]

I thought Solar had become feasible now.    Not far from my house there is a solar farm that is feeding an oil refinery pretty sure (ironic).   Now the weird thing is where I live its not even that sunny but apparently they've produced something usable in a field for the factory, maybe because it can be placed so close.     The solar farm is next to a school which a normal power station couldnt do.

I rate hydro power over solar but it needs further development.    I also live a mile away from the worlds largest tidal range resource, they dont use it... So lots of waste and inefficiency remains sadly

My understanding, and I'm not claiming to be 100% up on the latest, things are changing all the time, is that photovoltaics have only become a net EROI positive in the last 2 years or so...just the panel itself.  Then you have deployment and associated infrastructure.  We are close, right around break even in a pure energy sense, but remember that PV manufacture has its own externalities.  It is a hugely polluting endeavor utilizing, as I understand it, dubiously sourced rare earth minerals.

Hydro has its own issues, here in the US Pacific North West we have pretty much destroyed our anadromous fisheries resource.  We have even resorted to limited dam removal.

then throw on top of that lithium producers for batteries

not very green at all