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Author Topic: [40+ PH] SlushPool (slushpool.com); World's First Mining Pool  (Read 3855013 times)
TiborB
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July 07, 2013, 09:30:43 AM
 #10921

Oh it happen again!

block 18990 !!!

18991   2013-07-07 08:39:26   0:02:54   808304   2816   0.08810218   245255   25.04610000    99 confirmations left
18990   2013-07-07 08:36:32   1:43:40   30265490   100736   0.00325797   245253   25.15775703    97 confirmations left
18989   2013-07-07 06:52:52   0:51:15   15036853   51200   0.08746553   245242   25.02380000    86 confirmations left

Yes, the same here. Be patient, similar cases in the past have been fixed by Slush.
Start worrying (and raising attention) when the number of confirmations left gets below say 30.

Cheers,
   T

magic happening right now Smiley
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July 07, 2013, 10:46:07 AM
 #10922

In fact, you are punished for disconnection. You're punished exactly the same way you'd been in PPS in the long run, provided that you disconnect asynchronously, i.e. randomly.
At Slush's, you can either lose, when you disconnect near the round end, or you can gain, when you disconnect at some other time. In the latter case, your payout for the round won't be decreased due to the disconnection, although you would deserve some decrease. And as the time constant c is hopefully still 300 seconds and an average round is several times longer, it's greater chance for you to gain a bit than to lose substantial part of the reward.
Anyway, in the long run that should even out, as is the popular phrase in this thread for some time already... :-)

(...)
but I have a hard time feeling I'm being punished for my downtime when ... well ... I'm down.

In the long run, you're "punished" just to the extent you're down.
When you won't come to your work, you won't be paid.
Or would you like something like paid holidays? Smiley

I swear this topic comes up every now and then because... well like you said, it sucks to be punished (e.g. kicked when you're down).

I want to elaborate a bit and you guys can correct me if I'm wrong.  The key to all this is really variance.  The way scoring is done on Slush's pool is subject to variance and it's much more evident on slower miners and less so (but still present) on faster/more powerful ones.  So what does variance have to do with being punished???... a lot.

Take for example if you're disconnected in the beginning of one of those crazy 7 hour rounds and 1 hour later you manage to fix your router, USB hub, whatever... At the end of that round you're actually not penalized that hard because what's 1 hour worth of shares compared to 6 hours of shares (and plus your score is isn't hit badly because you've been continuously mining for the last 6 hours of the round).

Now take the counter example.  You disconnect for 1 hour (same amount of time as before) but instead 4 rounds go by (a 5 min, 30 min, 15 min, and 10 min).  You just missed out on 4 different payouts.  Remember, on Slush you're paid based on the rate you contribute, so you usually get the same pay for large rounds as you do for short ones (again with some variance).

Contrast the two examples and what you get is HUGE variance in punishment.  You can get punished a little bit  or a lot.  While it's true that it averages out in the long run, the "long run" is a really really long time.  For someone who isn't down that often... say only once a month at most... you catch one bad break and you'll need at least 2, 3, or 4 lucky breaks to "even out".  I figure that most people don't catch as many lucky breaks as they do bad lucks as they haven't really been mining all that long (I speak from experience as both of the above scenarios have happened to me, plus I'm a low hash rate miner and I haven't mined that long).  You really can't compare this to something like PPS because they're two different scoring mechanism.  It's like comparing apples and oranges.  PPS just doesn't punish you the way Slush's scoring does.

So.... Why stay on Slush?  The reason is the same. While you get heavily punished for disconnections during short rounds, you can also get highly rewarded in short rounds (if you're always connected and mining).  As a slower/weaker hashing miner you get paid the same in short rounds as you do in long rounds (again with a little variance) and with lots of short rounds, you get paid more on Slush than if you're being paid PPS in the same period (partially due to the high pool fees associated with PPS pools). 

Really all that's left now if for someone to do some really hard number crunching.  Basically someone needs to look at the current difficulty, the percentage of Slush's pool hashing power as compared to the rest of the pools (and remaining hashing power not attributed to a pool) and generate a standard deviation curve for round duration.  Using the round duration curve against someone's hashing power, one can calculate their payout probability curve (per a given duration, say 24hours).  You can take that curve and mark that against what other pool's PPS rates are and then determine if the probability of earning a greater amount on Slush's pool vs other pool's PPS rate is statistically worth staying on Slush.

BTC - 1LaserYQyggX8oH9wXVVx78S29KJdus5My
r.padgett
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July 07, 2013, 04:55:19 PM
 #10923

How about block 18995? Anyone have issues with payout? My statistics say "none" shares submitted so no reward as well, which is difficult to believe since I run 24/7 with my ASICS. Hopefully Slush is already on top of it.
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July 07, 2013, 05:03:25 PM
 #10924

How about block 18995? Anyone have issues with payout? My statistics say "none" shares submitted so no reward as well, which is difficult to believe since I run 24/7 with my ASICS. Hopefully Slush is already on top of it.

my problem is with #18994 :

18995 2013-07-07 16:13:53 0:03:48   1004576       310 0.00741798   245313  25.08610005 87 confirmations left 
18994 2013-07-07 16:10:05 2:30:19   43504966  11560 0.00444670    245312  25.24340000 86 confirmations left 
18993 2013-07-07 13:39:46 1:16:36   21972047    5907 0.00685585   245292  25.31574798 66 confirmations left 

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r.padgett
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July 07, 2013, 05:08:17 PM
 #10925

18994 for me was about 6 times higher than normal...
angryrob
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July 07, 2013, 05:12:19 PM
 #10926

I got double on 18986, which is now confirmed... heh

and I got about x8 on 18994... which i would guess would be fixed soon...

but then I also got none/none on 18995 which shouldn't be possible at 410mh/s (I earn 1 share every 12-14 seconds)

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July 07, 2013, 05:44:59 PM
 #10927

Update: Switch most of the computers over to litecoin mining while about 6.3 GH/s of ASIC still mine on Slush.


Still have one more computer left to switch over to litecoin.
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July 07, 2013, 05:54:13 PM
 #10928

Since Namecoin is no longer supported, does that mean we should move what we have off the pool and into a wallet somewhere? or, do we think there is a chance Slush will change his mind about this. I have like .049 namecoins. that is probably equal to bitcoin dust, certainly not worth trying to change into US$.

*insert appropriate begging line here* 
BTC: 1CS6AV7VnjcPLxaTFoUhTjXK4mQCTzfSxE
Doge: DB22tiynvXKg7SyPpnH9jyfitKLTZb6ejc
r.padgett
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July 07, 2013, 07:24:00 PM
 #10929

I'd also like to hear if Namecoin will be coming back. I'm sitting on 97.5 with Slush.
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July 07, 2013, 07:38:47 PM
 #10930

In fact, you are punished for disconnection. You're punished exactly the same way you'd been in PPS in the long run, provided that you disconnect asynchronously, i.e. randomly.
At Slush's, you can either lose, when you disconnect near the round end, or you can gain, when you disconnect at some other time. In the latter case, your payout for the round won't be decreased due to the disconnection, although you would deserve some decrease. And as the time constant c is hopefully still 300 seconds and an average round is several times longer, it's greater chance for you to gain a bit than to lose substantial part of the reward.
Anyway, in the long run that should even out, as is the popular phrase in this thread for some time already... :-)

(...)
but I have a hard time feeling I'm being punished for my downtime when ... well ... I'm down.

In the long run, you're "punished" just to the extent you're down.
When you won't come to your work, you won't be paid.
Or would you like something like paid holidays? Smiley

I swear this topic comes up every now and then because... well like you said, it sucks to be punished (e.g. kicked when you're down).

Not me said, 5120-01-518-6126 said. Me rather opposed.

Quote
I want to elaborate a bit and you guys can correct me if I'm wrong.  The key to all this is really variance.  The way scoring is done on Slush's pool is subject to variance and it's much more evident on slower miners and less so (but still present) on faster/more powerful ones.  So what does variance have to do with being punished???... a lot.

Take for example if you're disconnected in the beginning of one of those crazy 7 hour rounds and 1 hour later you manage to fix your router, USB hub, whatever... At the end of that round you're actually not penalized that hard because what's 1 hour worth of shares compared to 6 hours of shares (and plus your score is isn't hit badly because you've been continuously mining for the last 6 hours of the round).
(emphasis me)

You're not penalized at all. Six hour old shares have zero value compared to the new ones, at least practically. (But I believe that not only practically in this particular case: After at least three renormalizations, their score value must be at least 36 orders of magnitude less than the score of the fresh ones; that number converts to a very little fraction of a Satoshi, so really zero.) :-)
Thus, in this case, you haven't been working for an hour, and you're paid the same as if you had been.

Quote
Now take the counter example.  You disconnect for 1 hour (same amount of time as before) but instead 4 rounds go by (a 5 min, 30 min, 15 min, and 10 min).  You just missed out on 4 different payouts.  Remember, on Slush you're paid based on the rate you contribute, so you usually get the same pay for large rounds as you do for short ones (again with some variance).

Contrast the two examples and what you get is HUGE variance in punishment.  You can get punished a little bit  or a lot.  

Or you can gain. I.e., be paid for no work.

Quote
While it's true that it averages out in the long run, the "long run" is a really really long time.  For someone who isn't down that often... say only once a month at most... you catch one bad break and you'll need at least 2, 3, or 4 lucky breaks to "even out".  

There's equal chance that you catch 2, 3, or 4 lucky breaks first an then the unlucky one.

Quote
I figure that most people don't catch as many lucky breaks as they do bad lucks as they haven't really been mining all that long (I speak from experience as both of the above scenarios have happened to me, plus I'm a low hash rate miner and I haven't mined that long).

This is just psychology. You can try to find the term for this natural human feeling on Wikipedia e.g. Smiley

Quote
You really can't compare this to something like PPS because they're two different scoring mechanism.  It's like comparing apples and oranges.  PPS just doesn't punish you the way Slush's scoring does.

Apples and oranges, blah, blah.
Well, it's the variance, as you have said, that makes the "punishment" variable, and thus sometimes more noticeable. But you're not punished any more at Slush's than you are in PPS for your downtime. There's just different distribution in time.
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July 07, 2013, 07:52:54 PM
 #10931

In fact, you are punished for disconnection. You're punished exactly the same way you'd been in PPS in the long run, provided that you disconnect asynchronously, i.e. randomly.
At Slush's, you can either lose, when you disconnect near the round end, or you can gain, when you disconnect at some other time. In the latter case, your payout for the round won't be decreased due to the disconnection, although you would deserve some decrease. And as the time constant c is hopefully still 300 seconds and an average round is several times longer, it's greater chance for you to gain a bit than to lose substantial part of the reward.
Anyway, in the long run that should even out, as is the popular phrase in this thread for some time already... :-)

(...)
but I have a hard time feeling I'm being punished for my downtime when ... well ... I'm down.

In the long run, you're "punished" just to the extent you're down.
When you won't come to your work, you won't be paid.
Or would you like something like paid holidays? Smiley

I swear this topic comes up every now and then because... well like you said, it sucks to be punished (e.g. kicked when you're down).

Not me said, 5120-01-518-6126 said. Me rather opposed.

Quote
I want to elaborate a bit and you guys can correct me if I'm wrong.  The key to all this is really variance.  The way scoring is done on Slush's pool is subject to variance and it's much more evident on slower miners and less so (but still present) on faster/more powerful ones.  So what does variance have to do with being punished???... a lot.

Take for example if you're disconnected in the beginning of one of those crazy 7 hour rounds and 1 hour later you manage to fix your router, USB hub, whatever... At the end of that round you're actually not penalized that hard because what's 1 hour worth of shares compared to 6 hours of shares (and plus your score is isn't hit badly because you've been continuously mining for the last 6 hours of the round).
(emphasis me)

You're not penalized at all. Six hour old shares have zero value compared to the new ones, at least practically. (But I believe that not only practically in this particular case: After at least three renormalizations, their score value must be at least 36 orders of magnitude less than the score of the fresh ones; that number converts to a very little fraction of a Satoshi, so really zero.) :-)
Thus, in this case, you haven't been working for an hour, and you're paid the same as if you had been.

Quote
Now take the counter example.  You disconnect for 1 hour (same amount of time as before) but instead 4 rounds go by (a 5 min, 30 min, 15 min, and 10 min).  You just missed out on 4 different payouts.  Remember, on Slush you're paid based on the rate you contribute, so you usually get the same pay for large rounds as you do for short ones (again with some variance).

Contrast the two examples and what you get is HUGE variance in punishment.  You can get punished a little bit  or a lot.  

Or you can gain. I.e., be paid for no work.

Quote
While it's true that it averages out in the long run, the "long run" is a really really long time.  For someone who isn't down that often... say only once a month at most... you catch one bad break and you'll need at least 2, 3, or 4 lucky breaks to "even out".  

There's equal chance that you catch 2, 3, or 4 lucky breaks first an then the unlucky one.

Quote
I figure that most people don't catch as many lucky breaks as they do bad lucks as they haven't really been mining all that long (I speak from experience as both of the above scenarios have happened to me, plus I'm a low hash rate miner and I haven't mined that long).

This is just psychology. You can try to find the term for this natural human feeling on Wikipedia e.g. Smiley

Quote
You really can't compare this to something like PPS because they're two different scoring mechanism.  It's like comparing apples and oranges.  PPS just doesn't punish you the way Slush's scoring does.

Apples and oranges, blah, blah.
Well, it's the variance, as you have said, that makes the "punishment" variable, and thus sometimes more noticeable. But you're not punished any more at Slush's than you are in PPS for your downtime. There's just different distribution in time.

Does anyone even really give a s**t about this topic anymore...
aurel57
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July 07, 2013, 08:03:04 PM
 #10932

Does anyone even really give a s**t about this topic anymore...

no

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nottm28
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July 07, 2013, 08:14:49 PM
 #10933

no

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gourmet
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July 07, 2013, 08:24:24 PM
 #10934

but I have a hard time feeling I'm being punished for my downtime when ... well ... I'm down.

In the long run, you're "punished" just to the extent you're down.
When you won't come to your work, you won't be paid.
Or would you like something like paid holidays? Smiley

Another parable comes to my mind.
  • You won't come to work, and boss comes and realizes. You won't be paid. (Short round, end of round)
  • You leave work for 2 hours, return at luchtime, boss comes in a while, and colleagues remember and tell him. You are paid less. (Some time before the end of round.)
  • You are late to work in the morning, boss comes in the afternoon, no one remembers, you're fully paid. (Beginning of a long round.)
Well, just for fun... :-)

Ooooh, now that's an idea -- unfortunately, as a Bitcoin miner, I'm self-employed.  Oh, well ....

Are you? Are you mining solo? :-)
OK, let's modify the above example, when you don't feel yourself "employed" by Slush. ;-) If you're self-employed, you get money for some goods or services.
Then, when you don't deliver your goods or services, you're not paid. OK now? ;-)


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July 07, 2013, 09:36:36 PM
 #10935


Question: Suggested difficulty option box.

What is the point in this box? It optional but then if its optional dose it really matter? I'm running just 4 Block Erupters on Slush's Pool should I change my setting and if so to what?   


(I am a 1MB block supporter who thinks all users should be using Full-Node clients)
Avoid the XT shills, they only want to destroy bitcoin, their hubris and greed will destroy us.
Know your adversary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
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July 07, 2013, 09:47:32 PM
 #10936

Question: Suggested difficulty option box.
What is the point in this box? It optional but then if its optional dose it really matter? I'm running just 4 Block Erupters on Slush's Pool should I change my setting and if so to what?   

 For those with large amount of hash power, setting a higher difficulty will reduce the network bandwidth consumed by submitted shares.  You don't have enough hashpower for it to matter.   I wouldn't worry about it. 

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July 07, 2013, 11:02:18 PM
 #10937


Ooooh, now that's an idea -- unfortunately, as a Bitcoin miner, I'm self-employed.  Oh, well ....

Are you? Are you mining solo? :-)
OK, let's modify the above example, when you don't feel yourself "employed" by Slush. ;-) If you're self-employed, you get money for some goods or services.
Then, when you don't deliver your goods or services, you're not paid. OK now? ;-)


Yup, I get "official" money (or other things of value) from the BTC I produce by mining.

In a pool we're all self-employed, including the pool operator.  For example, Slush is self-employed -- he sells network and accounting services to pool members.  We can either pay fees to Slush (or some other pool operator) for access to his node on the Bitcoin network and his accounting services to tally our shares of the blocks we collectively mine via his node, or we can save those fees by going solo, setting up our own nodes and doing our own accounting -- then we can generate even more income by selling access to our nodes to others, and helping them with their accounting (for a fee, of course!).

My current thinking is that 2% for Slush's services is reasonable and well worth the time and energy it would take to operate solo.  Might think differently if I had a few Terahash to dig with.

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July 07, 2013, 11:03:52 PM
 #10938

Question: Suggested difficulty option box.
What is the point in this box? It optional but then if its optional dose it really matter? I'm running just 4 Block Erupters on Slush's Pool should I change my setting and if so to what?   

 For those with large amount of hash power, setting a higher difficulty will reduce the network bandwidth consumed by submitted shares.  You don't have enough hashpower for it to matter.   I wouldn't worry about it. 

So just curious at what point would you need to set a higher difficulty? How many Mhash/s are we talkin'? I know what the website suggests according to Mhash/s but is this realistic? What have others experienced?
nottm28
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July 07, 2013, 11:09:38 PM
 #10939

I've never seen a definitive answer - stick your finger in the air - what works best for you kinda responses...

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Trongersoll
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July 07, 2013, 11:16:36 PM
 #10940

Question: Suggested difficulty option box.
What is the point in this box? It optional but then if its optional dose it really matter? I'm running just 4 Block Erupters on Slush's Pool should I change my setting and if so to what?   

 For those with large amount of hash power, setting a higher difficulty will reduce the network bandwidth consumed by submitted shares.  You don't have enough hashpower for it to matter.   I wouldn't worry about it. 

So just curious at what point would you need to set a higher difficulty? How many Mhash/s are we talkin'? I know what the website suggests according to Mhash/s but is this realistic? What have others experienced?

all increasing the difficulty does is cut down on the network traffic. mining uses so little bandwidth that i wouldn't worry about it. besides, i think the pool raises your difficulty automatically if you set it too low... or maybe that was a different pool. it all blurrs sometimes.

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