Bitcoin Forum
September 30, 2016, 11:49:40 PM *
News: Due to DDoS attacks, there may be periodic downtime.
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Poll
Question: What type of pool payouts do you prefer?
Bitcoins - 3152 (80.4%)
Bank transfer / USD - 407 (10.4%)
Gold/silver coins and bars - 359 (9.2%)
Total Voters: 3916

Pages: « 1 ... 620 621 622 623 624 625 626 627 628 629 630 631 632 633 634 635 636 637 638 639 640 641 642 643 644 645 646 647 648 649 650 651 652 653 654 655 656 657 658 659 660 661 662 663 664 665 666 667 668 669 [670] 671 672 673 674 675 676 677 678 679 680 681 682 683 684 685 686 687 688 689 690 691 692 693 694 695 696 697 698 699 700 701 702 703 704 705 706 707 708 709 710 711 712 713 714 715 716 717 718 719 720 ... 1104 »
  Print  
Author Topic: [40+ PH] SlushPool (slushpool.com); World's First Mining Pool  (Read 3859029 times)
TiborB
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 83


View Profile
December 01, 2013, 01:24:30 AM
 #13381

I have the impression something is strange in the way shares are counted (or displayed) for very long rounds at current difficulty. Let us see the data:

block 272385, duration 7:48:38, number of shares: 2147483647
block 272149, duration 7:04:27, number of shares: 2147483647

It is rather improbable, but theoretically possible to get the exact same number of shares for these two rounds.
If you look at the number 2147483647 a bit closer, the situation looks even more suspicious.

2147483647 = 231-1

This should raise an alert to people familiar with programming...
It might be merely an issue of how data is displayed, or it might eventually be rooted in deeper layers which might or might not have other side effects.

Anyone any comment?

Cheers,
   T
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1475279380
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1475279380

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1475279380
Reply with quote  #2

1475279380
Report to moderator
1475279380
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1475279380

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1475279380
Reply with quote  #2

1475279380
Report to moderator
1475279380
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1475279380

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1475279380
Reply with quote  #2

1475279380
Report to moderator
Lucko
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 714



View Profile
December 01, 2013, 01:34:02 AM
 #13382

I have the impression something is strange in the way shares are counted (or displayed) for very long rounds at current difficulty. Let us see the data:

block 272385, duration 7:48:38, number of shares: 2147483647
block 272149, duration 7:04:27, number of shares: 2147483647

It is rather improbable, but theoretically possible to get the exact same number of shares for these two rounds.
If you look at the number 2147483647 a bit closer, the situation looks even more suspicious.

2147483647 = 231-1

This should raise an alert to people familiar with programming...
It might be merely an issue of how data is displayed, or it might eventually be rooted in deeper layers which might or might not have other side effects.

Anyone any comment?

Cheers,
   T
Well yes it looks to be a problem... I just swiched back to Slush to get BTC I had out and this is what I got for that block for 7+ hours at 100GH...

21007   2013-12-01 00:37:37   7:48:38   2147483647   none   none   272385   25.20690867    87 confirmations left

Since next block is already calculated

21008   2013-12-01 01:27:43   0:50:06   265077329   66440   0.00642591   272398   25.02827623    99 confirmations left

I guess this is an error and I left Slush because of that kind of errors... So I guess it will be best to just forgot my BTC hire and go...
nybbler905
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 213



View Profile
December 01, 2013, 02:12:20 AM
 #13383

21007    2013-12-01 00:37:37    7:48:38    2147483647    none    none    272385    25.20690867    83 confirmations left

What??? i'm trying out block erupter usb sticks and it's fairly consistant until that block... ' none ' when even if i'm sooo slow at just over 1.00 gHash/sec for it to actualy be of value after 7 hours, it should NOT say ' none '

For Perspective...

21009    2013-12-01 01:32:02    0:04:19    22915150    71    0.00007444    272399    25.03550690    97 confirmations left
21008    2013-12-01 01:27:43    0:50:06    265077329    695    0.00006535    272398    25.02827623    96 confirmations left
21007    2013-12-01 00:37:37    7:48:38    2147483647    none    none    272385    25.20690867    83 confirmations left
21006    2013-11-30 16:48:59    0:47:42    251032842    670    0.00005810    272318    25.03404462    16 confirmations left
21005    2013-11-30 16:01:17    0:36:01    189004238    476    0.00006833    272313    25.07062858    11 confirmations left
21004    2013-11-30 15:25:16    2:20:08    739833931    1961    0.00007462    272307    25.18938665    5 confirmations left
21003    2013-11-30 13:05:08    0:57:13    308486793    819    0.00006235    272288    25.25633454    confirmed
21002    2013-11-30 12:07:55    1:07:11    355945193    916    0.00005303    272284    25.04851601    confirmed
21001    2013-11-30 11:00:44    1:03:22    328906191    858    0.00006505    272271    25.01071321    confirmed
21000    2013-11-30 09:57:22    1:17:49    406216337    1069    0.00006336    272260    25.12306089    confirmed
20999    2013-11-30 08:39:33    0:28:41    150222160    398    0.00006666    272255    25.24613312    confirmed
20998    2013-11-30 08:10:52    1:38:52    518634435    1401    0.00006232    272251    25.28002503    confirmed
20997    2013-11-30 06:32:00    0:54:52    287744552    740    0.00006716    272242    25.02774408    confirmed

Always looking for donations even as low as 1uBTC
14XfpYPdtYiGoEiDcKrSzuvBM3ukhwANUh - BTC
LS7FEfu9ajp3NQcDjui9TSKscwQesj9i8k - LTC
LHe9g5ixMyfdtqAEHU5vErG1eQrDshBFRW -Luckycoin
TiborB
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 83


View Profile
December 01, 2013, 02:16:34 AM
 #13384

21007    2013-12-01 00:37:37    7:48:38    2147483647    none    none    272385    25.20690867    83 confirmations left

What??? i'm trying out block erupter usb sticks and it's fairly consistant until that block... ' none ' when even if i'm sooo slow at just over 1.00 gHash/sec for it to actualy be of value after 7 hours, it should NOT say ' none '

For Perspective...

21009    2013-12-01 01:32:02    0:04:19    22915150    71    0.00007444    272399    25.03550690    97 confirmations left
21008    2013-12-01 01:27:43    0:50:06    265077329    695    0.00006535    272398    25.02827623    96 confirmations left
21007    2013-12-01 00:37:37    7:48:38    2147483647    none    none    272385    25.20690867    83 confirmations left
21006    2013-11-30 16:48:59    0:47:42    251032842    670    0.00005810    272318    25.03404462    16 confirmations left
21005    2013-11-30 16:01:17    0:36:01    189004238    476    0.00006833    272313    25.07062858    11 confirmations left
21004    2013-11-30 15:25:16    2:20:08    739833931    1961    0.00007462    272307    25.18938665    5 confirmations left
21003    2013-11-30 13:05:08    0:57:13    308486793    819    0.00006235    272288    25.25633454    confirmed
21002    2013-11-30 12:07:55    1:07:11    355945193    916    0.00005303    272284    25.04851601    confirmed
21001    2013-11-30 11:00:44    1:03:22    328906191    858    0.00006505    272271    25.01071321    confirmed
21000    2013-11-30 09:57:22    1:17:49    406216337    1069    0.00006336    272260    25.12306089    confirmed
20999    2013-11-30 08:39:33    0:28:41    150222160    398    0.00006666    272255    25.24613312    confirmed
20998    2013-11-30 08:10:52    1:38:52    518634435    1401    0.00006232    272251    25.28002503    confirmed
20997    2013-11-30 06:32:00    0:54:52    287744552    740    0.00006716    272242    25.02774408    confirmed


Reading the two posts immediately before yours might give you some idea about this phenomenon. This seems to be affecting many of us.
Tazza
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 41


View Profile
December 01, 2013, 02:20:46 AM
 #13385

Also, I know it has been explained several times before in this thread, but I am no CS major, so most of the lingo used is Greek to me. But looking at my stats I see several blocks where I have 2,3,4 or 5 shares listed, but with no reward. And other blocks with the same amount of shares but with rewards. Is this normal?

Hi Steve,

Yep - it's normal. In order to stop people jumping from one pool to another each share is 'weighted' so that those submitted towards the end of a block being found are effectively worth more. Because you're only submitting a few shares each round what's happening is the system sees your last share was submitted x minutes/hours ago and thinks you've buggered off to another pool even though you haven't. The rounds where you have been rewarded are those in which your last share was close enough to the end of the round to still count.

It happens to me every now and again when my net connection will drop out for a bit at the end of a round (Mobile broadband so it has a tendency to do that) and I'll get zero reward as well.

Cheers
macsheadroom
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 91


Computer Service Tech


View Profile
December 01, 2013, 02:46:56 AM
 #13386

My reward was half what it should have been, hopefully it will be corrected.

21009    2013-12-01 01:32:02    0:04:19    22915150            2396    0.00260434    272399    25.03550690    94 confirmations left
21008    2013-12-01 01:27:43    0:50:06    265077329    26418    0.00226590    272398    25.02827623    93 confirmations left
21007    2013-12-01 00:37:37    7:48:38    2147483647    122738    0.00122464    272385    25.20690867    80 confirmations left
21006    2013-11-30 16:48:59    0:47:42    251032842    26584    0.00260305    272318    25.03404462    13 confirmations left
21005    2013-11-30 16:01:17    0:36:01    189004238    19118    0.00256829    272313    25.07062858    8 confirmations left
21004    2013-11-30 15:25:16    2:20:08    739833931    76904    0.00248505    272307    25.18938665    2 confirmations left
21003    2013-11-30 13:05:08    0:57:13    308486793    32274    0.00294020    272288    25.25633454    confirmed

1FQkmrwQ7yf9MKGLsAUhY2jgMT8WjepwL7
bspurloc
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 569


View Profile
December 01, 2013, 02:56:14 AM
 #13387

Pondering what the issue with reported hash rate and hash rate slush shows with Blades...
All my Asic USB Miners are dead on their reported hash rate and the slush report.
for example one group of eruptors 22 report 7300mh/s and slush shows 7202.33 which is essentially the same taking into account luck...
However my blades are all consistently 600-2000mh/s wrong.
these 2 grouped together should be 18gh/s yet slush has been showing 15619.041 for days.
10.89/ 8.06/ 7.81Gh/s | A:8791 R:191+0(2.3%) HW:476/.80%
11.97/11.10/10.44Gh/s | A:66460 R:1463+0(2.2%) HW:24273/3.9%
Another blade is running at 8gh/s but consistently shows 7511.846.
I guess that one isnt as bad.

 just seems odd the blades have a bigger loss compared to 22 eruptors. Is that normal?


They might be restarting if they are not cool enough. I had issues with my router and eventually went with a crossover cable from my laptop to switch to blades, you might want to try a different way of networking the blades. Other than that, on startup it usually takes the pool's web UI a while to "catch up". If you have a good wind tunnel and solid network connection it should be fine running through the proxy.

In regards to other discussion here, I'm almost double the minimum threshold with no payout.

nah they arent restarting. one is in a server room cool as anything the other 2 have more than enough fans on them.... funny thing is now slush has 1 of them exactly at their hashing power.
Up Time:   4d,09h,48m,54s
all 3 have been online 3-4 days. this isnt a network issue. the network issue is why 2 are only at 8gh/s which I havent figured out why these stupid blades have issues with highend switches. and why or lets say WHERE they found 10mbit chips instead of 100mbit. must have been a huge unused stockpile somewhere in China they are using on these blades.
bspurloc
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 569


View Profile
December 01, 2013, 02:58:31 AM
 #13388

just seems odd the blades have a bigger loss compared to 22 eruptors. Is that normal?
It might be that your internet bandwidth is throttling the throughput.  I recently noticed that my set-up on cable broadband slows from around 8.6GH to 2.5GH in the early evening when all the World of Warcraft players and video downloaders get busy, before creeping slowly upwards to its normal level by around midnight; I tried swapping to an ADSL broadband connection and got no more than 4.5GH even off-peak.

I use a Jalapeno and two block eruptors mining through BFGminer; the reported hash rates for all three devices vary in proportion.

well slsuh auto adjusts the diffs to a setting that is supposed to cut down on traffic. but these blades only have 10mbits chips on them so its impossible for them to overload a 100mbit circuit since they themselves cant move that much traffic
bspurloc
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 569


View Profile
December 01, 2013, 03:24:57 AM
 #13389

Pondering what the issue with reported hash rate and hash rate slush shows with Blades...
All my Asic USB Miners are dead on their reported hash rate and the slush report.
for example one group of eruptors 22 report 7300mh/s and slush shows 7202.33 which is essentially the same taking into account luck...
However my blades are all consistently 600-2000mh/s wrong.
these 2 grouped together should be 18gh/s yet slush has been showing 15619.041 for days.
10.89/ 8.06/ 7.81Gh/s | A:8791 R:191+0(2.3%) HW:476/.80%
11.97/11.10/10.44Gh/s | A:66460 R:1463+0(2.2%) HW:24273/3.9%
Another blade is running at 8gh/s but consistently shows 7511.846.
I guess that one isnt as bad.

 just seems odd the blades have a bigger loss compared to 22 eruptors. Is that normal?


OH!!!! NEVER MIND! haha....
I see what is wrong!! I have one of the blades pointing to an account that has Eruptors on it. However the reason I didnt notice this is because the blades on single accounts were showing lower on Slush than what they are actually doing. It must have been really bad luck as both are noW at the exact hash rate as they claim to be doing... hence why I just noticed my error!
nybbler905
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 213



View Profile
December 01, 2013, 03:36:59 AM
 #13390

My reward was half what it should have been, hopefully it will be corrected.

21009    2013-12-01 01:32:02    0:04:19    22915150            2396    0.00260434    272399    25.03550690    94 confirmations left
21008    2013-12-01 01:27:43    0:50:06    265077329    26418    0.00226590    272398    25.02827623    93 confirmations left
21007    2013-12-01 00:37:37    7:48:38    2147483647    122738    0.00122464    272385    25.20690867    80 confirmations left
21006    2013-11-30 16:48:59    0:47:42    251032842    26584    0.00260305    272318    25.03404462    13 confirmations left
21005    2013-11-30 16:01:17    0:36:01    189004238    19118    0.00256829    272313    25.07062858    8 confirmations left
21004    2013-11-30 15:25:16    2:20:08    739833931    76904    0.00248505    272307    25.18938665    2 confirmations left
21003    2013-11-30 13:05:08    0:57:13    308486793    32274    0.00294020    272288    25.25633454    confirmed

the point was, some of us got ' nothing ' for shares submitted even with usb asic for that 7+ hour stretch of # 21007.  There is an issue....

Always looking for donations even as low as 1uBTC
14XfpYPdtYiGoEiDcKrSzuvBM3ukhwANUh - BTC
LS7FEfu9ajp3NQcDjui9TSKscwQesj9i8k - LTC
LHe9g5ixMyfdtqAEHU5vErG1eQrDshBFRW -Luckycoin
Lucko
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 714



View Profile
December 01, 2013, 06:39:06 AM
 #13391

My reward was half what it should have been, hopefully it will be corrected.

21009    2013-12-01 01:32:02    0:04:19    22915150            2396    0.00260434    272399    25.03550690    94 confirmations left
21008    2013-12-01 01:27:43    0:50:06    265077329    26418    0.00226590    272398    25.02827623    93 confirmations left
21007    2013-12-01 00:37:37    7:48:38    2147483647    122738    0.00122464    272385    25.20690867    80 confirmations left
21006    2013-11-30 16:48:59    0:47:42    251032842    26584    0.00260305    272318    25.03404462    13 confirmations left
21005    2013-11-30 16:01:17    0:36:01    189004238    19118    0.00256829    272313    25.07062858    8 confirmations left
21004    2013-11-30 15:25:16    2:20:08    739833931    76904    0.00248505    272307    25.18938665    2 confirmations left
21003    2013-11-30 13:05:08    0:57:13    308486793    32274    0.00294020    272288    25.25633454    confirmed
Yes after being away from pool for 5 mouths pool is still as unreliable as it was when I given up on Slush... You at lest got something I got non for 7+ hours... And I would now say that Slush is unable or unwilling to fix his pool. I hope auto payment is working... I was reading it is not... Grate job Slush...
TiborB
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 83


View Profile
December 01, 2013, 11:10:51 AM
 #13392

For some (including me) shares/reward for round 21007 still show 'none'. I have seen recalculations/fixes in the past before the block is confirmed, but currently there are only 11 confirmations left...

21007    2013-12-01 00:37:37    7:48:38    2147483647    none    none    272385    25.20690867    11 confirmations left
This is the block where the total number of shared might have overflowed a 32bit integer - this is only speculation, but the total of shares is shown as exactly 231-1.

After my post on this issue last night and sending a PM within this forum, I was patiently waiting for this to get fixed, but now I have also sent a mail to pool operators and hope they will take action.

Regards,
   T



Humax
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 200


The law of the universe!


View Profile
December 01, 2013, 11:35:38 AM
 #13393

21012   2013-12-01 06:42:52   2:36:50   822353445   235376   0.00659462   272440    25.04495605
21011   2013-12-01 04:06:02   0:34:20   181000803     48822   0.00715762   272413    25.11093992
21010   2013-12-01 03:31:42   1:59:40   639039598   171289   0.00651526   272410    25.14099989
21009   2013-12-01 01:32:02   0:04:19   22915150       5768   0.00608615   272399    25.03550690
21008   2013-12-01 01:27:43   0:50:06   265077329    70864   0.00605277   272398    25.02827623
21007   2013-12-01 00:37:37   7:48:38   2147483647    none       none     272385    25.20690867   

Fix this please!

Help me feed my hamster! Donate sunflower seeds!
bobsmoke
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 290



View Profile
December 02, 2013, 02:00:37 PM
 #13394

just because of recent mitm attacks...
Is the Thumprint for Slush pool SSL certificate the following:  ‎d6 fa 35 fb 99 84 21 07 0c 84 2c 2d ba ce 57 4a 42 d6 3e 63
KNK
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 614


View Profile
December 02, 2013, 02:23:59 PM
 #13395

just because of recent mitm attacks...
Is the Thumprint for Slush pool SSL certificate the following:  ‎d6 fa 35 fb 99 84 21 07 0c 84 2c 2d ba ce 57 4a 42 d6 3e 63
Confirmed.

BTC tips: 1KNK1akhpethhtcyhKTF2d3PWTQDUWUzHE
TiborB
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 83


View Profile
December 02, 2013, 04:27:38 PM
 #13396

21012   2013-12-01 06:42:52   2:36:50   822353445   235376   0.00659462   272440    25.04495605
21011   2013-12-01 04:06:02   0:34:20   181000803     48822   0.00715762   272413    25.11093992
21010   2013-12-01 03:31:42   1:59:40   639039598   171289   0.00651526   272410    25.14099989
21009   2013-12-01 01:32:02   0:04:19   22915150       5768   0.00608615   272399    25.03550690
21008   2013-12-01 01:27:43   0:50:06   265077329    70864   0.00605277   272398    25.02827623
21007   2013-12-01 00:37:37   7:48:38   2147483647    none       none     272385    25.20690867   

Fix this please!

Just to wrap up: this issue has been fixed - I have the impression there was a recalculation with proportional method.
Kudos go to the pool operators.

Regards,
   T
osoverflow
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 171


Viviendo Linux


View Profile WWW
December 02, 2013, 10:12:13 PM
 #13397

I don't want namecoin for its monetary value, but for its usability value. The ability to set fixed value on a p2p decentralized network that has a bitcoin-like security is very useful and important to develop additional services.

It it is another thing that can do something similar, I would love to know about it.

namecoin just checks the result from bitcoin mining and if it is good, applies it to the namecoin block tree. BTCguild does namecoin along with bitcoin on pplns. namecoins are worth about 6% of a bitcoin. I send the namecoins i make to BTC-e to convert them to bitcoins. then i have to wait until i meet the minimum transfer amount to send them to my wallet. I wouldn't care if i stopped getting namecoins.

Donations: 1BTCMktcVXbDrzBgv8yqgZg1iVRNfajPz8 | LbtcMKTfcFJrjGhSBbEsG2oRtA1fsHkhou | PDqPMLbD8ahJdQrYxSUxx9UZoShbB7H2n4
Visit:
http://opticalcube.com | http://tuminium.com (Bitcoin / Mexican Pesos) | http://pagabitcoin.com (cell phone credit page) | Earn Devcoins by Writing
stevegreer
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 812

Official Zeitcoin community ambassador


View Profile
December 02, 2013, 10:43:56 PM
 #13398

Also, I know it has been explained several times before in this thread, but I am no CS major, so most of the lingo used is Greek to me. But looking at my stats I see several blocks where I have 2,3,4 or 5 shares listed, but with no reward. And other blocks with the same amount of shares but with rewards. Is this normal?

Hi Steve,

Yep - it's normal. In order to stop people jumping from one pool to another each share is 'weighted' so that those submitted towards the end of a block being found are effectively worth more. Because you're only submitting a few shares each round what's happening is the system sees your last share was submitted x minutes/hours ago and thinks you've buggered off to another pool even though you haven't. The rounds where you have been rewarded are those in which your last share was close enough to the end of the round to still count.

It happens to me every now and again when my net connection will drop out for a bit at the end of a round (Mobile broadband so it has a tendency to do that) and I'll get zero reward as well.

Cheers

Thanks for the answer! That makes sense I reckon. Kinda stinks though that my CPU has been plugging away for hours and I have nothing to show for it. So, just out of curiosity, since I noticed that there are quite a few people making comments about not getting rewards even though they know their miners have been hashing away, say in a situation like that, if the pool ends up completing the block, but most everyone's stats shows "none" for rewards, then where do the 25 bitcoins go? I'm sure someone must end up with them, right?

So one last rookie question. If I do decide to get more into this, obviously continuing mining with my CPU will NEVER be profitable. At about what hash rate have most of you seen the BTC start rolling in? I'm not delusional enough to think that I will ever make a fortune off of this, but I wouldn't mind seeing at least a couple hundred bucks or so over the course of a month or three in order to make it feel like my efforts are not in vain. Right now my meager 0.00000142 BTC just ain't cutting it!  Grin

bobsmoke
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 290



View Profile
December 02, 2013, 11:37:12 PM
 #13399

Hello pool operators, something strange with the reward for block 272726

21027 2013-12-02 23:04:34   5:49:17 1993521951 2763811    0.00040730 272726 25.00902152

Anyone with the same issue?
Kaos116
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28


View Profile
December 03, 2013, 12:13:19 AM
 #13400

Hello pool operators, something strange with the reward for block 272726

21027 2013-12-02 23:04:34   5:49:17 1993521951 2763811    0.00040730 272726 25.00902152

Anyone with the same issue?

Yes,

21027 2013-12-02 23:04:34 5:49:17 1993521951 55349 0.00000857 272726  25.00902152 93 confirmations left 

My average reward is about .00075
Pages: « 1 ... 620 621 622 623 624 625 626 627 628 629 630 631 632 633 634 635 636 637 638 639 640 641 642 643 644 645 646 647 648 649 650 651 652 653 654 655 656 657 658 659 660 661 662 663 664 665 666 667 668 669 [670] 671 672 673 674 675 676 677 678 679 680 681 682 683 684 685 686 687 688 689 690 691 692 693 694 695 696 697 698 699 700 701 702 703 704 705 706 707 708 709 710 711 712 713 714 715 716 717 718 719 720 ... 1104 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!