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Question: What type of pool payouts do you prefer?
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Author Topic: [150+ PH] SlushPool (slushpool.com); World's First Mining Pool  (Read 4321897 times)
KNK
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January 10, 2014, 06:58:30 PM
 #14181

So are we seeing the system hitting a capacity wall?
No - there are much bigger pools, so it's possible, but more important is the way this pool is organized ... it's my guess, but I am quite sure it's correct ...
There are several servers processing the job done from the pool and even if we 'hit a wall' for their current capacity - additional server can be added to keep up, but ... additional server does not come for free (in terms of money and support time/headches) and can't be brought online instantly, so there is a small period of time when the processing power can be a (temporary) limiting factor. And still i don't think the glitches are caused from limited processing power, but more of protective measures that kick-in in some situations, before the things get screwed.

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January 10, 2014, 07:09:19 PM
 #14182

So are we seeing the system hitting a capacity wall?
No - there are much bigger pools, so it's possible, but more important is the way this pool is organized ... it's my guess, but I am quite sure it's correct ...
There are several servers processing the job done from the pool and even if we 'hit a wall' for their current capacity - additional server can be added to keep up, but ... additional server does not come for free (in terms of money and support time/headches) and can't be brought online instantly, so there is a small period of time when the processing power can be a (temporary) limiting factor. And still i don't think the glitches are caused from limited processing power, but more of protective measures that kick-in in some situations, before the things get screwed.


Slush's pool is designed for "set it and forget it."  His scoring system promotes this behavior. So when people hop and freak out glitches occur, which n00bs get very upset over. 

Just forget about it and let the coins come in.  :-)

Do you even mine?
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ccynthia
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January 10, 2014, 07:47:49 PM
 #14183

I think this reply, comment sort of makes things fall into place for me and is what I have been feeling like doing and looking for and is what I am going to do. Thank you. Grin Grin Grin Grin

[/quote]

Slush's pool is designed for "set it and forget it."  His scoring system promotes this behavior. So when people hop and freak out glitches occur, which n00bs get very upset over. 

Just forget about it and let the coins come in.  :-)
[/quote]
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January 10, 2014, 07:55:00 PM
 #14184

See a total NOOB. I can't even figure out how to add a quote. Oh well, I enjoy this forum because I can learn so much! Tongue
KNK
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January 10, 2014, 08:57:37 PM
 #14185

Simply put, shares just before the block is found are the only ones that are relevant, to discourage pool hopping. 

The function is an exponential weighting, so the effect is extremely strong: if you mine many shares, but disconnect just before the block is found, your payout will reduce drastically. 

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1976.msg50002#msg50002
I'll try to explain it with an example ...

I (= the pool) have a huge field (= round) in which a treasure (= bitcoin block) is buried, but no one knows where (=when the round will end), so I need to dig until I find it.

I need diggers (=miners) to help me find that treasure and will divide it between them instead of paying fixed salary, so they will get more for their work, but ...
I have paid for that field (=pool infrastructure and support), so I will keep 2% of the treasure for me (=pool fee)
I don't have an excavator, but it's faster with it.
There is a risk that the some diggers will come for a day or two, with the hope that they will find the treasure fast and leave before we find the treasure.
There is a risk that the some diggers will stay on the field pretending to work

So ... I need a strategy to find such with:
 own excavators if possible, but even hand digging will do + to keep them with me until the treasure is found + not pay to those who are not actually working + divide it fair and quick, so we can move on the next field

To motivate those with excavators - I will need to pay based on the cubic meters of soil excavated per hour (=pool diff)

--- and now Slush specific strategy ---

Those who are lazy or just pretend to work will not bring soil often, so they should get less (=exponentially reduced reward)

To reach the goal I will write down the cubic meters brought at some location on a sheet of paper, but won't keep all of them - just the last one to divide it as fast as possible, so because of that ...

When it's full (=score reset) I will start a new one with a short summary of the previous, based on the same rules as if the treasure was found.

When the treasure is found I will divide it based on the cubic meters of soil excavated and brought at the location in the recent hours as:
 Those excavated during the last hour are counted in full
 Those in the hour before - in half ... and so on each hour reducing the volume paid in half until it falls below the minimum piece of the treasure (= 0.00000001 BTC)

 So if you stop working - you will loose your payment fairly quickly

Outcome:
 +
 If you have an excavator you will bring more and will be paid more, but if you are lazy you will bring it less often, then you will be paid less ... at the end you will be paid fairly for your work
 If you have no excavator, but hardworking - you bring less, but regularly ... you will be paid fair for your hard work

 -
 If you have an excavator, but it got broken (= internet connection down or miner down) and while fixing it, you missed the last hour of when the treasure was found ... you are paid less unfortunately
 If you have no excavator, but hardworking - you may still miss bringing soil in the last hour, because you need 1.5h per cubic meter (=low hasrate), but still be paid for all your work during the hours before ... you are paid less, because you are slow even it is not because you are lazy


Those who complain are the ones affected from the negatives of the strategy, but it's not mine (=the pool's) fault that your excavator got broken or you are too slow to keep up with the others.
You are free to dig for someone else (without complaints) if your excavator brakes too often or you are too slow compared to other workers and miss the payment of every digging campain

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ccynthia
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January 10, 2014, 09:35:24 PM
 #14186

Simply put, shares just before the block is found are the only ones that are relevant, to discourage pool hopping.  

The function is an exponential weighting, so the effect is extremely strong: if you mine many shares, but disconnect just before the block is found, your payout will reduce drastically.  

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1976.msg50002#msg50002
I'll try to explain it with an example ...

I (= the pool) have a huge field (= round) in which a treasure (= bitcoin block) is buried, but no one knows where (=when the round will end), so I need to dig until I find it.

I need diggers (=miners) to help me find that treasure and will divide it between them instead of paying fixed salary, so they will get more for their work, but ...
I have paid for that field (=pool infrastructure and support), so I will keep 2% of the treasure for me (=pool fee)
I don't have an excavator, but it's faster with it.
There is a risk that the some diggers will come for a day or two, with the hope that they will find the treasure fast and leave before we find the treasure.
There is a risk that the some diggers will stay on the field pretending to work

So ... I need a strategy to find such with:
 own excavators if possible, but even hand digging will do + to keep them with me until the treasure is found + not pay to those who are not actually working + divide it fair and quick, so we can move on the next field

To motivate those with excavators - I will need to pay based on the cubic meters of soil excavated per hour (=pool diff)

--- and now Slush specific strategy ---

Those who are lazy or just pretend to work will not bring soil often, so they should get less (=exponentially reduced reward)

To reach the goal I will write down the cubic meters brought at some location on a sheet of paper, but won't keep all of them - just the last one to divide it as fast as possible, so because of that ...

When it's full (=score reset) I will start a new one with a short summary of the previous, based on the same rules as if the treasure was found.

When the treasure is found I will divide it based on the cubic meters of soil excavated and brought at the location in the recent hours as:
 Those excavated during the last hour are counted in full
 Those in the hour before - in half ... and so on each hour reducing the volume paid in half until it falls below the minimum piece of the treasure (= 0.00000001 BTC)

 So if you stop working - you will loose your payment fairly quickly

Outcome:
 +
 If you have an excavator you will bring more and will be paid more, but if you are lazy you will bring it less often, then you will be paid less ... at the end you will be paid fairly for your work
 If you have no excavator, but hardworking - you bring less, but regularly ... you will be paid fair for your hard work

 -
 If you have an excavator, but it got broken (= internet connection down or miner down) and while fixing it, you missed the last hour of when the treasure was found ... you are paid less unfortunately
 If you have no excavator, but hardworking - you may still miss bringing soil in the last hour, because you need 1.5h per cubic meter (=low hasrate), but still be paid for all your work during the hours before ... you are paid less, because you are slow even it is not because you are lazy


Those who complain are the ones affected from the negatives of the strategy, but it's not mine (=the pool's) fault that your excavator got broken or you are too slow to keep up with the others.
You are free to dig for someone else (without complaints) if your excavator brakes too often or you are too slow compared to other workers and miss the payment of every digging campain


WOW, thank you for taking the time to put it in a simple and easy to understand example. I get it now! Great this should help everyone and if it doesn't what more can be done for them. This is a good post. Great job!!!!
Grin Grin Grin Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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January 10, 2014, 10:03:44 PM
 #14187

May I suggest you have this example placed in the Knowledgebase as an example for us simple minded n00bs to read? It really helped me to understand a lot more how Slush pool works.Roll Eyes
musicmaker613
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January 10, 2014, 10:48:20 PM
 #14188

Simply put, shares just before the block is found are the only ones that are relevant, to discourage pool hopping. 

The function is an exponential weighting, so the effect is extremely strong: if you mine many shares, but disconnect just before the block is found, your payout will reduce drastically. 

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1976.msg50002#msg50002
I'll try to explain it with an example ...

I (= the pool) have a huge field (= round) in which a treasure (= bitcoin block) is buried, but no one knows where (=when the round will end), so I need to dig until I find it.

I need diggers (=miners) to help me find that treasure and will divide it between them instead of paying fixed salary, so they will get more for their work, but ...
I have paid for that field (=pool infrastructure and support), so I will keep 2% of the treasure for me (=pool fee)
I don't have an excavator, but it's faster with it.
There is a risk that the some diggers will come for a day or two, with the hope that they will find the treasure fast and leave before we find the treasure.
There is a risk that the some diggers will stay on the field pretending to work



I would also add that while this is happening on Slush's "field", there are several other fields where people are also digging for treasure.  Not long after cooperative (pooled) digging (mining) was created, people realized they could stop by each of the fields for a few minutes to "contribute" to the work load.  They dig a couple of small holes and sneak away to the other fields.  In the end, they were getting portions of the treasures from ALL of the fields they went to, even though they never hung around long enough to make meaningful contributions.  In the bitcoin world, this is called POOL HOPPING.  Slush implemented the scoring system we now use specifically to prevent such hopping from field to field (pool to pool) and taking rewards for mostly useless work.

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KNK
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January 10, 2014, 11:08:43 PM
 #14189

I am glad it's understandable ... i am usually accused of being too detailed, which makes it complicated, so i've tried to be short, but yes - there are many more details worth explanation.

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January 11, 2014, 12:13:22 AM
 #14190

I am glad it's understandable ... i am usually accused of being too detailed, which makes it complicated, so i've tried to be short, but yes - there are many more details worth explanation.


Despite his algorithms which are perhaps complicated, Slush's pool invites relaxing. Look how simple his page is. His math is elegant. He updates news almost never. I personally locked my payout address so security is not a problem. So basically, I never look. I get an email when there's a payout. Excellent.

I like the slush culture...once you understand it, and you set it and forget it, it's a great pool.

Do you even mine?
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January 11, 2014, 04:30:31 AM
 #14191

+1

Keep it positive! That's what brings the " luck "!

I won't ask for donations but I will ask for help. And I won't give donations but I will help if I can.
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January 11, 2014, 08:23:22 AM
 #14192

its about time people stopped whining. good for you guys! I suggest every n00b read all 711 pages of this thread before being able to post complaints against Slush or his pool. do some research please

https://www.buytrezor.com?a=55c37b866c11   well sir, I like it!
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January 11, 2014, 11:01:44 AM
 #14193

its about time people stopped whining. good for you guys! I suggest every n00b read all 711 pages of this thread before being able to post complaints against Slush or his pool. do some research please

Yes I been mining @ Slush since mid 2012 and i believe he is a stand up guy and runs a fare pool, I tested lot off other pools, some of those scammed me and closed down

 
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January 11, 2014, 04:14:40 PM
 #14194

do some research please

Certainly. I've overall been happy with slush's pool, but this is why I'm thinking about switching to another pool.  Here are the results from "ping -t stratum.bitcoin.cz":



The time-outs happen regularly.  The problem is NOT with my own internet connection.  I had another ping session running simultaneously (ping -t stratum.btcguild.com), and BTC Guild only had one time-out the entire time.  My location is USA.
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January 11, 2014, 04:19:59 PM
 #14195

ICMP is not guaranteed way to test connection over internet - many routers have ICMP limit, which causes the packet to be dropped
Check with mtr and there will be no losses on the last hop

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ccynthia
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January 11, 2014, 04:44:22 PM
 #14196

Well after reading a lot more on this thread and a lot on other sites about their pools I've come to a conclusion that may not be a ground breaker for many but it is a conclusion anyway. It is very obvious there are and will always be those on or in any pool who wish to complain and become very upset with the pool. Every forum has these people complaining over and over how unfair the pool is and feel something is very wrong.

Ok, fair enough that's their opinion and we all have a right to our opinion. BUT, what I DON'T UNDERSTAND is if they are so dang unhappy about a pool - why don't they just leave it and stop causing problems and issues for those who are happy with the pool! It seems all pools are full of these people.

BETTER YET, why don,t they start their own pools if they think they have a better way? Why? Because they can't, they don't know how to even begin or the money to start so they just stay and complain.

Life is to short everyone - just enjoy and be happy that Slush pool is here for those of us to use who aren't smart enough to do it ourselves. Man I've learned so much in the past week I can't believe it and I WILL BE STAYING WITH SLUSH POOL for the duration because this pool seems fair and the other pools are no better if you read forums on them.

Like has been mention several times do some research then make your own decisions and just enjoy making what bitcoins you can - it's FUN.

Oh and this post has nothing to do with the above post on pings. I do think it is cool how they can take pictures of their computers and post them. Oh wait I just had a thought, am I considered as being a forum troll (if that is the right word) if so I will stop posting.   Grin Grin Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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January 11, 2014, 05:19:42 PM
 #14197

ICMP is not guaranteed way to test connection over internet - many routers have ICMP limit, which causes the packet to be dropped
Check with mtr and there will be no losses on the last hop

Good point. Sorry about making an unfair assumption.  Regardless, I'd still like to check the reliability of my connection to stratum.mining.cz.  I tried running mtr stratum.bitcoin.cz a couple of times, and it seems to resolve to different addresses each time.  Looks to me like some load balancing of some sort is going on, but it seems odd to me that it wouldn't just resolve to the closest geographical server to me every time.  Sometimes it's smeu01.bitcoin.cz, sometimes it's 192.198.107.178, and sometimes it's 54.225.68.97 (ec2-54-225-68-97.compute-1.amazonaws.com).

Do you think manually specifying 54.225.68.97:3333 in my miner would be a good idea?  54.225.68.97 seems to have the lowest latency for me.
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January 11, 2014, 05:25:06 PM
 #14198

ICMP is not guaranteed way to test connection over internet - many routers have ICMP limit, which causes the packet to be dropped
Check with mtr and there will be no losses on the last hop

Good point. Sorry about making an unfair assumption.  Regardless, I'd still like to check the reliability of my connection to stratum.mining.cz.  I tried running mtr stratum.bitcoin.cz a couple of times, and it seems to resolve to different addresses each time.  Looks to me like some load balancing of some sort is going on, but it seems odd to me that it wouldn't just resolve to the closest geographical server to me every time.  Sometimes it's smeu01.bitcoin.cz, sometimes it's 192.198.107.178, and sometimes it's 54.225.68.97 (ec2-54-225-68-97.compute-1.amazonaws.com).

Do you think manually specifying 54.225.68.97:3333 in my miner would be a good idea?  54.225.68.97 seems to have the lowest latency for me.

If it works yes,

but keep in mind tomorrow something else may be better.

No connection is perfect.

BTc donations welcome:-  13c2KuzWCaWFTXF171Zn1HrKhMYARPKv97
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January 11, 2014, 06:26:48 PM
 #14199

It's not a good idea to use a static IP on my opinion.

The main reason to use load balancing is to distribute the load and failover to the remaining live servers in case of problems, which you will loose in this case.
Lowest latency does not mean 'best' ... what if the server is close but overloaded?

If you insist on fixed IP - it's recommended to at least add the hostname for failover

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January 11, 2014, 06:42:20 PM
 #14200

ICMP is not guaranteed way to test connection over internet - many routers have ICMP limit, which causes the packet to be dropped
Check with mtr and there will be no losses on the last hop

Good point. Sorry about making an unfair assumption.  Regardless, I'd still like to check the reliability of my connection to stratum.mining.cz.  I tried running mtr stratum.bitcoin.cz a couple of times, and it seems to resolve to different addresses each time.  Looks to me like some load balancing of some sort is going on, but it seems odd to me that it wouldn't just resolve to the closest geographical server to me every time.  Sometimes it's smeu01.bitcoin.cz, sometimes it's 192.198.107.178, and sometimes it's 54.225.68.97 (ec2-54-225-68-97.compute-1.amazonaws.com).

Do you think manually specifying 54.225.68.97:3333 in my miner would be a good idea?  54.225.68.97 seems to have the lowest latency for me.

If it works yes,

but keep in mind tomorrow something else may be better.

No connection is perfect.

Yep, it works. I can successfully submit shares using all three of those addresses.

It's not a good idea to use a static IP on my opinion.

The main reason to use load balancing is to distribute the load and failover to the remaining live servers in case of problems, which you will loose in this case.
Lowest latency does not mean 'best' ... what if the server is close but overloaded?

If you insist on fixed IP - it's recommended to at least add the hostname for failover

Of course I'll still have stratum.bitcoin.cz as a failover pool specified in the miner since that's the supported address.  I'm just trying to outsmart the load-balancer to get the best connection.

However, if I'm reading the output from mtr right, there is actually some loss at the last hop.  More so for 54.225.68.97 than the other two.  Maybe smeu01.bitcoin.cz is actually the best address for me even if it has the highest latency?

EDIT: Yeah, I realize this isn't a solution if the server is overloaded... But you said there shouldn't be any loss at the last hop?

EDIT2: In case the bitcointalk image proxy doesn't work:
http://i.imgur.com/RjbI23B.png
http://i.imgur.com/BsR2ZBi.png
http://i.imgur.com/aR7eFpU.png
Try not to quote the images.






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