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Question: What type of pool payouts do you prefer?
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Author Topic: [40+ PH] SlushPool (slushpool.com); World's First Mining Pool  (Read 3854064 times)
Mudbankkeith
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January 09, 2014, 10:03:31 PM
 #14181

It's easy to tell who the veteran miners are vs. the newcomers.  I've never posted in this thread, but I've been mining with Slush for about a year now-- long enough to understand that there are sometimes glitches and that they rarely go unfixed.  It's so obvious that many of the users crying foul lately have never taken the time to study the mechanics of Slush pool (reward system, payout etc) nor do they have any idea who Slush is or what he has contributed to the bitcoin ecosystem.  Those accusing Slush of being a thief or pocketing your rewards need to stop and realize he is essentially the pioneer of cooperative mining as we know it.  People need to stop and think:  Maybe the pool just has issues as of late.... Maybe there isn't someone just trying to rip me off.  Is a glitchy pool grounds to leave?  Absolutely.  Grounds to accuse someone of thievery and malice?  Hardly.

Just my 2 cents.  In other news, pool luck is recovering.  That is nice.

some of the errors are also down to poor internet connections and ISP servers wobbling.  There are a lot of connections between workrooms and the pool servers.
For a text file like an email, the system can correct the missing data.   For a string of encrypted bitcoin hash arriving late, there is no recovery.

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madjoe1974
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January 09, 2014, 10:05:45 PM
 #14182

yesterday i got an email from his support staff:

Quote
Hi,

We are sorry for the inconvenience. We have been experiencing issues with bitcoind service. The issue has been fixed.

If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Best regards,
Pool support team





Ticket Details
---------------------------------
Ticket ID: KQR-***-*****
Department: slushpool
Type: Issue
Status: Open
Priority: Critical

Helpdesk: http://support.bitcoin.cz
You can check the status of or update this ticket online at: http://support.bitcoin.cz/Tickets/Ticket/View/KQR-***-*****

for me i must say all is every time fixed in one or two days

ORE-Mine (http://ore-mine.com/?r=80060)
EasyQuest
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January 09, 2014, 10:37:46 PM
 #14183

It's easy to tell who the veteran miners are vs. the newcomers.  I've never posted in this thread, but I've been mining with Slush for about a year now-- long enough to understand that there are sometimes glitches and that they rarely go unfixed.  It's so obvious that many of the users crying foul lately have never taken the time to study the mechanics of Slush pool (reward system, payout etc) nor do they have any idea who Slush is or what he has contributed to the bitcoin ecosystem.  Those accusing Slush of being a thief or pocketing your rewards need to stop and realize he is essentially the pioneer of cooperative mining as we know it.  People need to stop and think:  Maybe the pool just has issues as of late.... Maybe there isn't someone just trying to rip me off.  Is a glitchy pool grounds to leave?  Absolutely.  Grounds to accuse someone of thievery and malice?  Hardly.

Just my 2 cents.  In other news, pool luck is recovering.  That is nice.

I see, I too am also here for about a year now mining since the pool was only 2.5 TH/s.... now at 600 TH/s things has changed a lot with ASICs kicking GPUs miners off the network, and increasing the difficulty.

I remember when the difficulty was below 3 million. As for glitches they fix on their own, and as expect from the last glitch, if fixed itself. I am happy to have been mining on this pool for over a year now.

-Cheers
kkurtmann
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January 10, 2014, 12:47:04 AM
 #14184

Probably, because you have stopped mining at the end of the round ... compare the number of shares for similar round (or two) duration - for example 21402 and 21403 together are exactly the same time as 21355, so if you have less shares in 21355 that is the reason for your 0 reward.
This is the most common (and probably the only) cause with Slush pool. Some people do not read or understand the way it works, but then complain about nonexistent pool problems


one of the smartest posts I've read here in weeks, well done

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Altoidnerd
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January 10, 2014, 04:03:11 AM
 #14185

Even when that is true, i still have calculated 700k shares in that round, so i still have the right for my share.
Not true because your reward drops much faster if you stop mining. This is to prevent pool-hoping but I think it's working real good in operator's favor. I don't think the missing reward go to other miners, it goes to the owner.

Which also makes Slush useless for backup pool because if my pool goes down and my equipment switches to Slush for a bit, I will likely not finish a round before my main pool comes back online and miners switch back. So essentially mining for pool owner's new sports car.

The more I read this thread and lack of responsibility from Slush the more I hate Slush. Outright theft and most people are ok with that. I want that kind of blind loyalty.

Hate slush? If it weren't for him you'd be solo mining. Long live king slush. The fact is simple; he's kind of a bitcoin saint and doesn't have time to deal with this 710 page forum.

Do you even mine?
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mdopro1
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January 10, 2014, 04:12:35 AM
 #14186

The fact is simple; he's kind of a bitcoin saint and doesn't have time to deal with this 710 page forum.
It's called big ego. I'm going to stop posting here because clearly there are a lot of blind people here.

Keep Slush rounds short by donating to my wallet 1Pbmm1L69wNG7HaCHGLmVKzVCsq6p3UTds and also in case I actually helped someone.
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January 10, 2014, 04:30:33 AM
 #14187

I am pretty new at this, (been mining with Slush since September) but I just wanted to say that Slush has fixed every hiccup or glitch that has appeared in my stats. Sometimes it took as long as 24 hrs but as far as I can tell he has paid me every bit he's owed me... Hell, I have more trouble with AT&T...

I think this is a great pool...
Professoruss
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January 10, 2014, 06:08:44 AM
 #14188

Small time miner, only 200gh, been here since ~ oct/nov. Issues pop up now and then, but have always gotten fixed. Payouts are sometimes delayed, but always end up correct, and the payout strategy IMO is fair.

Sir Alan
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January 10, 2014, 03:46:22 PM
 #14189

The pool's hash rate has been leaping upwards again - 655000 just now - as our fair-weather friends jump aboard having seen the pool's luck swing up again (don't they realise that yesterday's successes have no bearing on what might happen tomorrow?  Evidently not.)  Plus, of course, the new miners weighing in, and the arms race of others trying to keep up.

All of which makes me wonder if the recent glitches we have been seeing are at least in part due to the increasing workload being placed on the servers?  I know that the difficulty of each miner is adjusted to keep their work-rate fairly constant if their individual hash rate goes up, but that does not help if there are many more miners participating.  So are we seeing the system hitting a capacity wall?

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ccynthia
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January 10, 2014, 05:11:57 PM
 #14190

Ok, now I think I understand the Score system for payouts, sort of, maybe, a little. You don't get paid the amount your hardware is showing as shares found, this totals up in each block found and the total is then divided by the total found shares from everyone contributing to the block or something like that. Then you get a figure on your actual reward. Your total shares found should be shown as contributed to each block however long that block takes to complete. Sounds sort of like maybe understandable.

I picked Slush's Pool because he has been working with Bitcoin since almost it's start and the pool was recommended by several friends. I can't say I even begin to understand it because I've had several large shares found in the past 3 days one 18m and another at 44.7m that's 44,700,000 at one time and 18,000,000 on the other. Now neither amount has shown up on my shares contributed toward any pool block. I've been running non-stop 24/7 the last 3 days since I started serious mining and I've never disconnected. Hmmm.

Am I a total NOOB. You bet I am! I've been on Slush for approx 3 weeks and reading approx 5 weeks total. My time on was just playing with 2 different lvl graphics cards to see how the system worked. I finally decided it may really work so I jumped in and now am running 50ghz soon to be 100ghz. When i jump I jump high, but I am still only a little tiny player in the overall pool. I've actually been online for approx 3 days now at a serious attempt at mining. I only look to get my hardware investment back and if it keeps going after that GREAT.

But since I don't really understand this pool yet I can't accuse the pool of stealing my found shares or hiding them etc and keeping them. It is concerning yes, but maybe it is just my misunderstanding on how the system works that makes me feel a little uncomfortable. I'm sticking with the Slush Pool just because maybe it is me and my not being able to fully understand the Score payout system like I mentioned above.

I'm not blindly following and trusting the pool yet as some state but I have to begin somewhere don't I. If we become uncomfortable with the pool I see no reason to post bad remarks about any pool. When you or I reach that level of not trusting a pool operator then what is stopping us from pulling plug and moving on to another pool and trying it!

Am I uncertain right now, yes, am I learning, yes, am I ready to accuse Slush of foul play, NO.  If I can't understand the payout system and can't figure why it show's I found large blocks which don't show up as credited towards the block then I either need to research more or move on right. Right.

But for now I'm sticking with Slush because well I wouldn't understand another pool either. LOL Cheesy
cenicsoft
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January 10, 2014, 05:40:04 PM
 #14191

yesterday i got an email from his support staff:

Quote
Hi,

We are sorry for the inconvenience. We have been experiencing issues with bitcoind service. The issue has been fixed.

If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Best regards,
Pool support team





Ticket Details
---------------------------------
Ticket ID: KQR-***-*****
Department: slushpool
Type: Issue
Status: Open
Priority: Critical

Helpdesk: http://support.bitcoin.cz
You can check the status of or update this ticket online at: http://support.bitcoin.cz/Tickets/Ticket/View/KQR-***-*****

for me i must say all is every time fixed in one or two days

Glad to hear that you received an official response from support.  Hopefully, all of these issues are non issues just like they've always been in the past.

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Altoidnerd
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January 10, 2014, 06:27:59 PM
 #14192

Ok, now I think I understand the Score system for payouts, sort of, maybe, a little. You don't get paid the amount your hardware is showing as shares found, this totals up in each block found and the total is then divided by the total found shares from everyone contributing to the block or something like that. Then you get a figure on your actual reward. Your total shares found should be shown as contributed to each block however long that block takes to complete. Sounds sort of like maybe understandable.

I picked Slush's Pool because he has been working with Bitcoin since almost it's start and the pool was recommended by several friends. I can't say I even begin to understand it because I've had several large shares found in the past 3 days one 18m and another at 44.7m that's 44,700,000 at one time and 18,000,000 on the other. Now neither amount has shown up on my shares contributed toward any pool block. Hmmm.

But since I don't really understand this pool yet I can't accuse the pool of stealing my found shares or hiding them etc and keeping them. It is concerning yes, but maybe it is just my misunderstanding on how the system works that makes me feel a little uncomfortable. I'm sticking with the Slush Pool just because maybe it is me and my not being able to fully understand the Score payout system like I mentioned above.

I'm not blindly following and trusting the pool yet as some state but I have to begin somewhere don't I. If we become uncomfortable with the pool I see no reason to post bad remarks about any pool. When you or I reach that level of not trusting a pool operator then what is stopping us from pulling plug and moving on to another pool and trying it!

Am I uncertain right now, yes, am I learning, yes, and I ready to accuse Slush of foul play, NO.  If I can't understand the payout system and can't figure why it show's I found large blocks which don't show up as credited towards the block then I either need to research more or move on right. Right.

Simply put, shares just before the block is found are the only ones that are relevant, to discourage pool hopping.  

The function is an exponential weighting, so the effect is extremely strong: if you mine many shares, but disconnect just before the block is found, your payout will reduce drastically.  

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1976.msg50002#msg50002

Do you even mine?
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KNK
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January 10, 2014, 06:58:30 PM
 #14193

So are we seeing the system hitting a capacity wall?
No - there are much bigger pools, so it's possible, but more important is the way this pool is organized ... it's my guess, but I am quite sure it's correct ...
There are several servers processing the job done from the pool and even if we 'hit a wall' for their current capacity - additional server can be added to keep up, but ... additional server does not come for free (in terms of money and support time/headches) and can't be brought online instantly, so there is a small period of time when the processing power can be a (temporary) limiting factor. And still i don't think the glitches are caused from limited processing power, but more of protective measures that kick-in in some situations, before the things get screwed.

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Altoidnerd
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January 10, 2014, 07:09:19 PM
 #14194

So are we seeing the system hitting a capacity wall?
No - there are much bigger pools, so it's possible, but more important is the way this pool is organized ... it's my guess, but I am quite sure it's correct ...
There are several servers processing the job done from the pool and even if we 'hit a wall' for their current capacity - additional server can be added to keep up, but ... additional server does not come for free (in terms of money and support time/headches) and can't be brought online instantly, so there is a small period of time when the processing power can be a (temporary) limiting factor. And still i don't think the glitches are caused from limited processing power, but more of protective measures that kick-in in some situations, before the things get screwed.


Slush's pool is designed for "set it and forget it."  His scoring system promotes this behavior. So when people hop and freak out glitches occur, which n00bs get very upset over. 

Just forget about it and let the coins come in.  :-)

Do you even mine?
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ccynthia
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January 10, 2014, 07:47:49 PM
 #14195

I think this reply, comment sort of makes things fall into place for me and is what I have been feeling like doing and looking for and is what I am going to do. Thank you. Grin Grin Grin Grin

[/quote]

Slush's pool is designed for "set it and forget it."  His scoring system promotes this behavior. So when people hop and freak out glitches occur, which n00bs get very upset over. 

Just forget about it and let the coins come in.  :-)
[/quote]
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January 10, 2014, 07:55:00 PM
 #14196

See a total NOOB. I can't even figure out how to add a quote. Oh well, I enjoy this forum because I can learn so much! Tongue
KNK
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January 10, 2014, 08:57:37 PM
 #14197

Simply put, shares just before the block is found are the only ones that are relevant, to discourage pool hopping. 

The function is an exponential weighting, so the effect is extremely strong: if you mine many shares, but disconnect just before the block is found, your payout will reduce drastically. 

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1976.msg50002#msg50002
I'll try to explain it with an example ...

I (= the pool) have a huge field (= round) in which a treasure (= bitcoin block) is buried, but no one knows where (=when the round will end), so I need to dig until I find it.

I need diggers (=miners) to help me find that treasure and will divide it between them instead of paying fixed salary, so they will get more for their work, but ...
I have paid for that field (=pool infrastructure and support), so I will keep 2% of the treasure for me (=pool fee)
I don't have an excavator, but it's faster with it.
There is a risk that the some diggers will come for a day or two, with the hope that they will find the treasure fast and leave before we find the treasure.
There is a risk that the some diggers will stay on the field pretending to work

So ... I need a strategy to find such with:
 own excavators if possible, but even hand digging will do + to keep them with me until the treasure is found + not pay to those who are not actually working + divide it fair and quick, so we can move on the next field

To motivate those with excavators - I will need to pay based on the cubic meters of soil excavated per hour (=pool diff)

--- and now Slush specific strategy ---

Those who are lazy or just pretend to work will not bring soil often, so they should get less (=exponentially reduced reward)

To reach the goal I will write down the cubic meters brought at some location on a sheet of paper, but won't keep all of them - just the last one to divide it as fast as possible, so because of that ...

When it's full (=score reset) I will start a new one with a short summary of the previous, based on the same rules as if the treasure was found.

When the treasure is found I will divide it based on the cubic meters of soil excavated and brought at the location in the recent hours as:
 Those excavated during the last hour are counted in full
 Those in the hour before - in half ... and so on each hour reducing the volume paid in half until it falls below the minimum piece of the treasure (= 0.00000001 BTC)

 So if you stop working - you will loose your payment fairly quickly

Outcome:
 +
 If you have an excavator you will bring more and will be paid more, but if you are lazy you will bring it less often, then you will be paid less ... at the end you will be paid fairly for your work
 If you have no excavator, but hardworking - you bring less, but regularly ... you will be paid fair for your hard work

 -
 If you have an excavator, but it got broken (= internet connection down or miner down) and while fixing it, you missed the last hour of when the treasure was found ... you are paid less unfortunately
 If you have no excavator, but hardworking - you may still miss bringing soil in the last hour, because you need 1.5h per cubic meter (=low hasrate), but still be paid for all your work during the hours before ... you are paid less, because you are slow even it is not because you are lazy


Those who complain are the ones affected from the negatives of the strategy, but it's not mine (=the pool's) fault that your excavator got broken or you are too slow to keep up with the others.
You are free to dig for someone else (without complaints) if your excavator brakes too often or you are too slow compared to other workers and miss the payment of every digging campain

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ccynthia
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January 10, 2014, 09:35:24 PM
 #14198

Simply put, shares just before the block is found are the only ones that are relevant, to discourage pool hopping.  

The function is an exponential weighting, so the effect is extremely strong: if you mine many shares, but disconnect just before the block is found, your payout will reduce drastically.  

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1976.msg50002#msg50002
I'll try to explain it with an example ...

I (= the pool) have a huge field (= round) in which a treasure (= bitcoin block) is buried, but no one knows where (=when the round will end), so I need to dig until I find it.

I need diggers (=miners) to help me find that treasure and will divide it between them instead of paying fixed salary, so they will get more for their work, but ...
I have paid for that field (=pool infrastructure and support), so I will keep 2% of the treasure for me (=pool fee)
I don't have an excavator, but it's faster with it.
There is a risk that the some diggers will come for a day or two, with the hope that they will find the treasure fast and leave before we find the treasure.
There is a risk that the some diggers will stay on the field pretending to work

So ... I need a strategy to find such with:
 own excavators if possible, but even hand digging will do + to keep them with me until the treasure is found + not pay to those who are not actually working + divide it fair and quick, so we can move on the next field

To motivate those with excavators - I will need to pay based on the cubic meters of soil excavated per hour (=pool diff)

--- and now Slush specific strategy ---

Those who are lazy or just pretend to work will not bring soil often, so they should get less (=exponentially reduced reward)

To reach the goal I will write down the cubic meters brought at some location on a sheet of paper, but won't keep all of them - just the last one to divide it as fast as possible, so because of that ...

When it's full (=score reset) I will start a new one with a short summary of the previous, based on the same rules as if the treasure was found.

When the treasure is found I will divide it based on the cubic meters of soil excavated and brought at the location in the recent hours as:
 Those excavated during the last hour are counted in full
 Those in the hour before - in half ... and so on each hour reducing the volume paid in half until it falls below the minimum piece of the treasure (= 0.00000001 BTC)

 So if you stop working - you will loose your payment fairly quickly

Outcome:
 +
 If you have an excavator you will bring more and will be paid more, but if you are lazy you will bring it less often, then you will be paid less ... at the end you will be paid fairly for your work
 If you have no excavator, but hardworking - you bring less, but regularly ... you will be paid fair for your hard work

 -
 If you have an excavator, but it got broken (= internet connection down or miner down) and while fixing it, you missed the last hour of when the treasure was found ... you are paid less unfortunately
 If you have no excavator, but hardworking - you may still miss bringing soil in the last hour, because you need 1.5h per cubic meter (=low hasrate), but still be paid for all your work during the hours before ... you are paid less, because you are slow even it is not because you are lazy


Those who complain are the ones affected from the negatives of the strategy, but it's not mine (=the pool's) fault that your excavator got broken or you are too slow to keep up with the others.
You are free to dig for someone else (without complaints) if your excavator brakes too often or you are too slow compared to other workers and miss the payment of every digging campain


WOW, thank you for taking the time to put it in a simple and easy to understand example. I get it now! Great this should help everyone and if it doesn't what more can be done for them. This is a good post. Great job!!!!
Grin Grin Grin Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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January 10, 2014, 10:03:44 PM
 #14199

May I suggest you have this example placed in the Knowledgebase as an example for us simple minded n00bs to read? It really helped me to understand a lot more how Slush pool works.Roll Eyes
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January 10, 2014, 10:48:20 PM
 #14200

Simply put, shares just before the block is found are the only ones that are relevant, to discourage pool hopping. 

The function is an exponential weighting, so the effect is extremely strong: if you mine many shares, but disconnect just before the block is found, your payout will reduce drastically. 

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1976.msg50002#msg50002
I'll try to explain it with an example ...

I (= the pool) have a huge field (= round) in which a treasure (= bitcoin block) is buried, but no one knows where (=when the round will end), so I need to dig until I find it.

I need diggers (=miners) to help me find that treasure and will divide it between them instead of paying fixed salary, so they will get more for their work, but ...
I have paid for that field (=pool infrastructure and support), so I will keep 2% of the treasure for me (=pool fee)
I don't have an excavator, but it's faster with it.
There is a risk that the some diggers will come for a day or two, with the hope that they will find the treasure fast and leave before we find the treasure.
There is a risk that the some diggers will stay on the field pretending to work



I would also add that while this is happening on Slush's "field", there are several other fields where people are also digging for treasure.  Not long after cooperative (pooled) digging (mining) was created, people realized they could stop by each of the fields for a few minutes to "contribute" to the work load.  They dig a couple of small holes and sneak away to the other fields.  In the end, they were getting portions of the treasures from ALL of the fields they went to, even though they never hung around long enough to make meaningful contributions.  In the bitcoin world, this is called POOL HOPPING.  Slush implemented the scoring system we now use specifically to prevent such hopping from field to field (pool to pool) and taking rewards for mostly useless work.

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