JoelKatz
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Activity: 1596
Merit: 1012
Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.
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June 29, 2013, 08:03:01 AM |
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Consider the first two shares in the round, one of them being the block. - You 1st, block, other 2nd, no block
- You 1st, no block, other 2nd, block
- Other 1st, block, you 2nd, no block
- Other 1st, no block, you 2nd, block
When you find a block, your payout is worse than in solo, as you have to share your reward. When you don't find, you're better, you get some share on the reward. Together, it's like solo. You can't just select one of the possibilities. They're all equaly (un)probable. They're not equally probable. The probability depends on latency to the pool and mining speed. All that's necessary to prove that a pool is not hop proof is to show that there exists some time an attacker can identify where the payout is greater than the payout from solo mining. The claim is that the payout method is mathematically proven to be hop proof. That seems impossible, again, unless I misunderstand the method. All that's needed is for my latency and mining rate to be sufficiently good that the reward I expect for my first share if I don't find a block outweighs the risk that someone else will submit a share before I find my first share. If I understand this method correctly, it cannot be mathematically proven to be hop proof because you have to make assumptions about latency and mining rate.
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I am an employee of Ripple. Follow me on Twitter @JoelKatz 1Joe1Katzci1rFcsr9HH7SLuHVnDy2aihZ BM-NBM3FRExVJSJJamV9ccgyWvQfratUHgN
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Tsunamirain
Full Member
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Activity: 210
Merit: 100
Incakoin= Incagold
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June 29, 2013, 08:36:59 AM |
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Are we down. I cannot connect to server.
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gourmet
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June 29, 2013, 08:41:20 AM |
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They're not equally probable. The probability depends on latency to the pool and mining speed. All that's necessary to prove that a pool is not hop proof is to show that there exists some time an attacker can identify where the payout is greater than the payout from solo mining. The claim is that the payout method is mathematically proven to be hop proof. That seems impossible, again, unless I misunderstand the method.
All that's needed is for my latency and mining rate to be sufficiently good that the reward I expect for my first share if I don't find a block outweighs the risk that someone else will submit a share before I find my first share. If I understand this method correctly, it cannot be mathematically proven to be hop proof because you have to make assumptions about latency and mining rate.
Well, then try your method on the pool. And don't forget to report your success here. Good luck! :-)))))))))))))))
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JoelKatz
Legendary
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Activity: 1596
Merit: 1012
Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.
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June 29, 2013, 08:57:49 AM |
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Well, then try your method on the pool. And don't forget to report your success here. Good luck! :-)))))))))))))))
I don't think it's exploitable under most practical conditions. You'd need to control a significant fraction of the mining power in the pool and probably also have better latency to the pool than every other miner. Nevertheless, it's a poor choice of methods given that it's so easy to construct a method that's provably hop proof. Again, assuming I understand the payout method correctly, which seems very hard to believe given that the pool claims to have a payout method mathematically proven to be hop-proof and the method as explained on their web page clearly isn't.
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I am an employee of Ripple. Follow me on Twitter @JoelKatz 1Joe1Katzci1rFcsr9HH7SLuHVnDy2aihZ BM-NBM3FRExVJSJJamV9ccgyWvQfratUHgN
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Tsunamirain
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Activity: 210
Merit: 100
Incakoin= Incagold
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June 29, 2013, 09:05:33 AM |
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Well, then try your method on the pool. And don't forget to report your success here. Good luck! :-)))))))))))))))
I don't think it's exploitable under most practical conditions. You'd need to control a significant fraction of the mining power in the pool and probably also have better latency to the pool than every other miner. Nevertheless, it's a poor choice of methods given that it's so easy to construct a method that's provably hop proof. Again, assuming I understand the payout method correctly, which seems very hard to believe given that the pool claims to have a payout method mathematically proven to be hop-proof and the method as explained on their web page clearly isn't. alot of spam huh
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Tsunamirain
Full Member
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Activity: 210
Merit: 100
Incakoin= Incagold
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June 29, 2013, 09:07:30 AM |
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Really guys. Is the pool down. I cannot get work with stratum. Been down 5 1/2 hrs? What's the deal?
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gourmet
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June 29, 2013, 09:14:21 AM |
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alot of spam huh
Unlike other themes, at least this discussion has been about Slush's pool, about its payout scheme.
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Tsunamirain
Full Member
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Activity: 210
Merit: 100
Incakoin= Incagold
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June 29, 2013, 09:25:40 AM |
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alot of spam huh
Unlike other themes, at least this discussion has been about Slush's pool, about its payout scheme. I kid I Kid. But I'm being ignored. Is the pool down?
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natbyte
Member
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Activity: 70
Merit: 10
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June 29, 2013, 09:36:42 AM |
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Seems fine for me at the moment.
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-Redacted-
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June 29, 2013, 11:07:39 AM |
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Maybe your definition of hoppable is too specific. I successfully "hop" Slush from time to time (when I have the time to monitor things on a minute-by-minute basis), especially when the pool's luck is running under 100%. I define hoppable as:
Pool x is hoppable if there exists a scheme that allows you to switch between mining on pool x and some other pool y in some manner that nets you more by mining on the combination of x and y than straight mining on pool x alone would pay out if you were mining there full time.
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nottm28
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June 29, 2013, 11:14:59 AM |
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Really guys. Is the pool down. I cannot get work with stratum. Been down 5 1/2 hrs? What's the deal?
Up here - check your network, bounce your miners
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donations not accepted
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Tsunamirain
Full Member
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Activity: 210
Merit: 100
Incakoin= Incagold
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June 29, 2013, 12:21:40 PM |
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I got it it was my network! Some way the wireless hub stopped working. Didn't realize it till I tried to search web. Man. I was worried for a while there
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jamesc760
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June 29, 2013, 12:55:56 PM |
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Slush's over 200 Th/s right now!
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-Redacted-
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June 29, 2013, 01:22:25 PM |
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Slush's over 200 Th/s right now!
Really? You saw the pool hashrate at over 200,000.0000 Gh/s? Amazing! Why, that's more than the combined hashrate of the entire Bitcoin network (currently around 170 Th/s) just in one pool. I wonder how that happened?
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ibfr33k
Member
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Activity: 75
Merit: 10
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June 29, 2013, 01:28:09 PM |
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Slush's over 200 Th/s right now!
Sorry. It was me. I fired up my Rage 128VR farm to see what it could do and it was awesome.
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I'm a noob just starting, all donations are welcome. 13DXKRXQncUnWAFtemSwNH7boRZfEfsg5a
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jamesc760
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June 29, 2013, 01:53:01 PM |
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noob mistake: 20.8 Th/s
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-Redacted-
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June 29, 2013, 02:14:18 PM |
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noob mistake: 20.8 Th/s On the bright side, our luck is running almost like there WAS 200 Th/s working. You've got to LOVE that string of short blocks we just hit.
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bspurloc
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June 29, 2013, 02:31:36 PM |
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happy diff increase everyone! 21335329 woohooo! 21th/s yum!
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nottm28
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June 29, 2013, 04:28:17 PM |
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What's the odd zero here and there - I think he meant 20TH/s
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donations not accepted
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Tsunamirain
Full Member
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Activity: 210
Merit: 100
Incakoin= Incagold
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June 29, 2013, 04:30:11 PM |
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It didnt.
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