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Author Topic: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated  (Read 960173 times)
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novacadian
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January 02, 2014, 04:13:20 AM
 #3281


If all those guys worldwide learn about devcoins... wouldn't all the shares be gone in a minute?

That is a good thing, right?  Cool


Sign them up! It's not how many but how much one is worth. That's my understanding anyway.

- Nova

and who /how decides how much one is worth?

Is there something like a thunderdome were two people go in, only one comes out?

Have you not been to an Exchange? Better than the Casino in Katmandu. A proven to be trustworthy exchange is Vircurex, yet there are a number of them. Day trading can while away an afternoon.  Wink

- Nova

DVC Address : 1EfsiVUECqmR5Qx7C4PkmwadDXYuSGzssL
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January 02, 2014, 04:14:59 AM
 #3282


If all those guys worldwide learn about devcoins... wouldn't all the shares be gone in a minute?

That is a good thing, right?  Cool


Sign them up! It's not how many but how much one is worth. That's my understanding anyway.

- Nova

and who /how decides how much one is worth?

Is there something like a thunderdome were two people go in, only one comes out?

Have you not been to an Exchange? Better than the Casino in Katmandu. A proven to be trustworthy exchange is Vircurex, yet there are a number of them. Day trading can while away an afternoon.  Wink

- Nova

oh sorry, I think we misunderstood each other.
You are talking about the value of devcoins of course.

I was talking about how big a share a developer gets based on "his" value.

I should get to sleep now, it's too late...

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January 02, 2014, 04:17:35 AM
 #3283


That's because DVC is unlike every other crypto-coin, and I think most don't realize how it works, or it's potential yet, just like when bitcoins first started (there are thousand of people who rightfully belong on the bitcoin or devcoin share lists, but they just don't know about it yet). It's doing to open source what mining did to digital currency. The analogy is that of the 200M coins created per round, they're distributed based on the number of people doing work to earn them, instead of machines - with btc everyone competes for the transaction pot with hardware. With dvc, it's essentially the same thing but instead of calculating hashes, people are creating things. As time goes on, the btc hashes get more difficult as the number of miners increase, and similarly dvc payouts become harder to earn because the initial work has already been done, and more difficult work lies in improving it (as well as more people doing work). Collaboration on work is similar to how mining pools operate, and there is an opportunity for people to develop ways to make collaboration between strangers easier.


But is it for example possible that the guys from blender.org (the 3d program) apply for devcoins?

Do they fulfil all criteria?

They have a large developer base... if they were to barge into devcoin, wouldn't that "increase the difficulty" (to continue your analogy with developing=mining) ?  Grin

That would mean fewer shares for everyone, ...

so what is the goal here? To encourage NEW open source software... or to try and win over all the open source developer programs that already exist?

If all those guys worldwide learn about devcoins... wouldn't all the shares be gone in a minute?

That is a good thing, right?  Cool


Those are good questions, and I suppose the answer depends on whether you think bitcoins benefited from having more miners. I think it did - the more people who got into it, the more secure the network was (knowledge base, in the case of devcoins), more people started receiving bitcoins and talking about them (the most important thing), which interested more people. If there's a profit motive, and there was a small one with btc when it began, just as there is with dvc now, people will find the time to do what's required. I think it would be an amazing thing for devcoin's true value if all the blender peeps got on board, talked about it to everyone they knew, etc, including their customers and supporters. They'd then be making great software and getting slightly paid for it, which should theoretically produce a better blender faster, not to mention introduce them to other dvc related things.

You've touched on something that is part of why I think bitcoins exceeded so many expectations. The fear of these huge developers/miners coming is part of what makes people do more work now. It's incentive to get off one's bum and do it now instead of wait for someone else to come along and claim the prize, so it actively promotes time-to-market because it appeals to people's competitiveness. This competitiveness doesn't have to be a bad thing, as even in a competitive market we have the pools/collaboration/companies and all that, and it generally produces better quality stuff because teams want to out-do each other.

We really don't have to win anyone over - they will come as soon as they realize they can get paid for stuff they're already doing. Bounties are designed around creating new FOSS stuff, and those are still set by admin/developers/whoever.

I will bet everything I have that if every legitimate FOSS developer in the world got on board dvc tomorrow, the price of dvc would soon go through the roof through pure speculation. With bitcoins, there was always a debate over whether mining difficulty followed price or price followed mining difficulty, and it turned out that there is a mutual dependence, and both of them followed interest in bitcoins and reliability of the code/network. If difficulty was high, it was much cheaper to just buy the coins, and people who would otherwise mine ended up injecting money into the market...if difficulty was low but price high, work went up to match the price extremely quickly. Ultimately it's nicer if there is smooth growth, to avoid turning people off when things don't meet their hyped expectations, but even if there isn't, if it's a genuinely good idea people will come back later. Judging by this, interest is the strongest driving force of price, followed by the value offered by the network.


and who /how decides how much one is worth?


That's the beauty of devcoins, in my opinion. It is floating FOSS onto the free market, so the whole world decides how much it's worth. The more people that value what devcoins do, the more each share will be worth.
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January 02, 2014, 04:23:08 AM
 #3284

You are talking about the value of devcoins of course.

I was talking about how big a share a developer gets based on "his" value.

As there were less being passed out, provided they were excepted for some goods and services, they would simply be worth more proportionally. That seems to be a given provided the available goods and services could be maintained. That is just my layman's thoughts. Not that of an economist.

I should get to sleep now, it's too late...

My last brownie may have gone down the wrong way as well.  Roll Eyes

- Nova

DVC Address : 1EfsiVUECqmR5Qx7C4PkmwadDXYuSGzssL
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January 02, 2014, 04:24:52 AM
 #3285


That's because DVC is unlike every other crypto-coin, and I think most don't realize how it works, or it's potential yet, just like when bitcoins first started (there are thousand of people who rightfully belong on the bitcoin or devcoin share lists, but they just don't know about it yet). It's doing to open source what mining did to digital currency. The analogy is that of the 200M coins created per round, they're distributed based on the number of people doing work to earn them, instead of machines - with btc everyone competes for the transaction pot with hardware. With dvc, it's essentially the same thing but instead of calculating hashes, people are creating things. As time goes on, the btc hashes get more difficult as the number of miners increase, and similarly dvc payouts become harder to earn because the initial work has already been done, and more difficult work lies in improving it (as well as more people doing work). Collaboration on work is similar to how mining pools operate, and there is an opportunity for people to develop ways to make collaboration between strangers easier.


But is it for example possible that the guys from blender.org (the 3d program) apply for devcoins?

Do they fulfil all criteria?

They have a large developer base... if they were to barge into devcoin, wouldn't that "increase the difficulty" (to continue your analogy with developing=mining) ?  Grin

That would mean fewer shares for everyone, ...

so what is the goal here? To encourage NEW open source software... or to try and win over all the open source developer programs that already exist?

If all those guys worldwide learn about devcoins... wouldn't all the shares be gone in a minute?

That is a good thing, right?  Cool


Originally it was a share per project, leaving it up to the project lead to divvy the coins up among the team.

So by that method, if Blender was deemed a suitable project, the project would get one share.

Nonetheless that are probably well over 4000 projects out there, and only 4000 shares in a round.

We do have the ability to do fifths of a share though so could support up to 20,000 projects.

However the closer we get to using up all the share slots the more chunky/grainy the outcomes will be, because the clients rotate through the lines of the receivers file and if the number of lines does not divide evenly into 4000 some lines will get used more than others.

If most of the lines get used 100 times but a few get used 101 times that is only 1% difference in how much different shares are worth; but if all lines get used once and some get used twice, some are getting twice as much coin per share as others!

That is why I keep urging that the total number of shares be kept small compared to 4000; so that we go through the list lots of times per round, so that the ones that get used an extra time are not getting massively more coins, relatively, to others.

Of course another way to make them all even would be to always pad the list so it always divides evenly into 4000. That might be a good way to implement a bounties fund, for example; simply pad out the list to the next number of lines that divides evenly into 4000 by adding lines that pay out to an address used to accumulate coins to use for bounties.

Because a couple of projects - bitcoin and open transactions - are so incredibly important to our mission, an exception was made for those, allowing more than one person on each of those teams to get on the receivers list with a whole share to themself instead of the whole project getting one share to split up amongst its team as it sees fit.

Obviously the pay Devtome writers have been getting looks even more insanely huge when compared to these payscales, so it is no surprise that there has been so much backlash against the Devtome payscale.

Comparing Devtome to other projects it should count itself lucky if, like Bitcoin and Open Transactions, it gets to have more than one of its team each have one share!

-MarkM-

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January 02, 2014, 06:02:40 AM
 #3286

Ok I couldn't find any direct calls in the API to do just this, nor a bot, so I wrote one with the support of a wrapper I modified from github (link in file).

https://github.com/hunterbunter/vircurex-python-shotgunbot

Once this has been tested, and there are no objections, you will receive your bounty (24 shares)

I suggest a bounty of 3 shares then 2 shares for a testing report on this bot, any objections?

Hi, I guess I'd like to collect a bounty for the DVC/USD price chart.
dvcticker.info

You get 9 shares for your chart!

I also would like to claim 12 shares based on my article located here:  http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=plan_for_investing_in_group_buys , of course that is if there are no objections.

You will receive 12 shares for your plan.   (it is the second investment plan)


Bittzy will get 12 shares for the Peer-to-Peer Lending idea, which is the third investment plan

I've also posted a business/investment plan on Devtome re. http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_bounty_now#investment_business_plan

http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=development_exchange

Feel free to rip into and criticise it.

You receive 12 shares for your plan.  There is one investment plan bounty remaining for 12 shares, and then the next five will be six shares.

Hello!  I would like to present to all, my button!:

SuperNova'd version:
[img size=100]http://i6.minus.com/jBhIvAQQWSyqd.png[/img]

Normal version:
[img size=100]http://devtomebutton.weebly.com/uploads/9/6/9/5/9695713/212411_orig.png[/img]

I have posted the normal version here: http://devtomebutton.weebly.com/ and http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_gallery
for your viewing pleasure

Athanasios gets 1/5 of a share for his button.  Congrats on your first bounty, Thanos!

I was looking at the Index of Charity website today and the bounty wasn't included yet. I just want to make sure that I was forgotten Smiley

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January 02, 2014, 06:05:52 AM
 #3287

I was looking at the Index of Charity website today and the bounty wasn't included yet. I just want to make sure that I was forgotten Smiley

I don't think he added those yet. I'm not in the list for my bounty either (but he acknowledged that I am awarded one) so I wouldn't worry at this point.
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January 02, 2014, 06:10:10 AM
 #3288

I was looking at the Index of Charity website today and the bounty wasn't included yet. I just want to make sure that I was forgotten Smiley

I don't think he added those yet. I'm not in the list for my bounty either (but he acknowledged that I am awarded one) so I wouldn't worry at this point.

Excellent, I will just throttle down a bit and be more patient. Smiley


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January 02, 2014, 06:39:03 AM
 #3289

Mark wrote:

..
Whoa, waitasec, are you suggesting you make a closed source forum?

Surely the bounty is for open source?

Also I think Unthinkinbit already secured the domain he wants the forum to be run on?

-MarkM-


Novacadian wrote:

..
It would be nice if a decision could be made within the next week as to which package is preferred.

The forum is to be open source. The domain name is secured, the org, com, and net. The forum is to run on Simple Machines Forum 2.


markm
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January 02, 2014, 07:06:09 AM
 #3290

SInce the "business plans" bounty is actually just about ideas how people could make money, rather than an actual per se business plan as I had thought of business plans, how about my http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=cpu_mining page?

It is well over 500 words, and proposes that people create "workers" aka characters and have those workers aka characters running around mining stone or metal or chopping trees for wood or foraging for food or farming food or manufacturing useful objects or whatever they wish, using scripts such as those any player can easily create using clients such as tinyfugue. Even children can do this, it is not hard, novacadian's daughter was able to do that kind of stuff before her hands were even good at writing because typing is easier than writing as you just have to press keys instead of having to make a pen or pencil draw the character that is shown on the key...

I had thought about making a new separate page with a concrete proposal such as buy such and such a number of accounts, create so many of this type of character, have them do this then this then this, and so on all the way through to then sell this for that much here and that for that much here and so on, which seemed more what I would expect a business plan to involve. But since really what is wanted is just the general concept of a way to make money it occurred to me the CPU Mining page already has plenty of information on how it is done...

-MarkM-

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hypersire
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January 02, 2014, 08:28:32 AM
 #3291

Happy New Year everyone! I'm working on the next revision of devcoin.org now - I've compiled all the feedback everyone left and will be making a bunch of updates - I'll provide a list once v2 is ready.

I truly believe Devcoin is going to have a very strong 2014. I've been thinking about ways that we can help take Devcoin to the next level and there are two people I think we should reach out to:

1) Mark Shuttleworth (founder of Canonical, creators of Ubuntu Linux)

2) Richard Branson

They are both space traveling philanthropists who I have no doubt would absolutely love everything that Devcoin stands for.

I'd be more than happy to prepare a Powerpoint deck on Devcoin that we could send off to Mark and Richard. I'd start with the highlights that are currently on the slider on devcoin.org (funding open source projects and artists, allowing anyone with the desire to work to earn devcoins from writing, open source spaceship). Seriously, what's not to love? It's just a matter of getting the material in front of them.

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January 02, 2014, 08:45:43 AM
 #3292

Happy New Year everyone! I'm working on the next revision of devcoin.org now - I've compiled all the feedback everyone left and will be making a bunch of updates - I'll provide a list once v2 is ready.

I truly believe Devcoin is going to have a very strong 2014. I've been thinking about ways that we can help take Devcoin to the next level and there are two people I think we should reach out to:

1) Mark Shuttleworth (founder of Canonical, creators of Ubuntu Linux)

2) Richard Branson

They are both space traveling philanthropists who I have no doubt would absolutely love everything that Devcoin stands for.

I'd be more than happy to prepare a Powerpoint deck on Devcoin that we could send off to Mark and Richard. I'd start with the highlights that are currently on the slider on devcoin.org (funding open source projects and artists, allowing anyone with the desire to work to earn devcoins from writing, open source spaceship). Seriously, what's not to love? It's just a matter of getting the material in front of them.



Excellent points. Lets draw up a list of things that should be in place before reaching out.

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Hunterbunter
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January 02, 2014, 09:08:27 AM
 #3293

I was looking at the Index of Charity website today and the bounty wasn't included yet. I just want to make sure that I was forgotten Smiley

Usually there is a 3-4 day gap between bounties being "announced completed" and actually added to the appropriate pages. This is to leave room for objections / major wtfs etc.
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January 02, 2014, 09:17:52 AM
 #3294

Let people first and foremost provide music for free (and get compensated in DVC), so other people can use that music for free in their projects.

It seems MarkM's point is being, largely, missed.

If we are talking about free music then the authors of said music can simply release it to the public domain. That is not the same as Open Source.

How is this poem at devtome open source?

http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=epic_love_poem

Please explain this. Is such a poem open source, because I can go ahead and change words etc?
Don't I destroy the work of this poet if I just switch words around as it pleases me?
I mean, if I am really good, I can make this poem better, and add value. If I am illiterate I will destroy this poem if I try to change and remix it.

I can create "poems" thru music, and post them so people can listen to them. I can also give people access to the MIDI-Files and all the tracks (if for example my music has 8 tracks, people can download all tracks separately)... So people can remix and mashup my music and potentially (if they know what they are doing) create something new.

The poem on devtome is free too, won't you agree?

I think we can all agree that everything that is posted as open source is also always free.

But not everything that is free is open source. But artists can make their art more or less open source by giving access to all work material. But this is difficult if part of their work material is in their brain.


For example: I can't open source the groove feeling I have in my left hand when I play that funky bassline.
Oh I can give you notes and MIDI-Files... but try and use those to create similar funky basslines and you will fail.

What I mean is, open source is partly possible with art, but not all the way thru, like it is with math and code.

You should be more accurate...; You should say," I can't do it yet."

If you think my efforts are worth something; I'll keep on keeping on.
I don't believe in IQ, only in Determination.
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January 02, 2014, 09:42:22 AM
 #3295

Happy New Year everyone! I'm working on the next revision of devcoin.org now - I've compiled all the feedback everyone left and will be making a bunch of updates - I'll provide a list once v2 is ready.

I truly believe Devcoin is going to have a very strong 2014. I've been thinking about ways that we can help take Devcoin to the next level and there are two people I think we should reach out to:

1) Mark Shuttleworth (founder of Canonical, creators of Ubuntu Linux)

2) Richard Branson

They are both space traveling philanthropists who I have no doubt would absolutely love everything that Devcoin stands for.

I'd be more than happy to prepare a Powerpoint deck on Devcoin that we could send off to Mark and Richard. I'd start with the highlights that are currently on the slider on devcoin.org (funding open source projects and artists, allowing anyone with the desire to work to earn devcoins from writing, open source spaceship). Seriously, what's not to love? It's just a matter of getting the material in front of them.


A few of us have been working on FAQ - it's aimed at the less techy (everybody): http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_faq

I'll add that this was Notabot's idea and he contributed the bulk of the idea and content. Basic thought is that could be added in separate snappy tabs with general heading, in the same way as http://devcoin.org/devcoin-wallet.html - which gives us a little more room for info and in turn means most of it can remain static there with fewer back links to devtome - making it easier to maintain. Don't know what you think, but seems to make sense even as evolves over time?

A powerpoint deck would be great. I'm also thinking about writing to a couple of OS projects I like when client and few other things are finalised, so something simple and effective could do wonders. Totally agree on nothing to lose.

Edit: Should add - if anyone else has ideas on the FAQ then go for it, it's a group effort like Devcoin in general.
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January 02, 2014, 10:08:58 AM
 #3296


I've added a "User Payments by Round" section to http://dvccountdown.blisteringdevelopers.com/ which some of you might be interested in.
I'm new to Devtome and I don't seem to be on there.  My user name is zachofiddle and I put that in for round 31 and it comes up with 0.0 shares.  Can someone please make sure I am added correctly?  I published a novella onto Devtome a couple of weeks ago so I think I should be in this round.  Dinkleberg was the admin who set up my account.  Thanks.

Hey zachofiddle, assuming you used correct case, the most likely reason is that the devtome script hasn't been run since you submitted your work. I know my own devtome contributions haven't been added yet, but my bounties have. I don't know whether the admins intend on running it again for this round or not, but if they do, it'll be added, and if not, it'll be added next round. I'm reading the account file to get that data, but its devtome.py that needs to run to update the devtome_31.csv file which is read (I believe) into the account file whenever the account file is updated



I've logged into Devtome and found my work has been deleted.  I tried uploading it again but now my account isn't letting me edit pages.  What is going on?
weisoq
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January 02, 2014, 10:20:20 AM
 #3297

There's a new Devcoin animation coming. The creator can't post here yet (newbie restrictions) but I think wants to be sure they don't miss the bounty so I'm posting this for their reference as in fairness the other forum creates some confusion in where/how to go about it. Ref: Forum Link
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January 02, 2014, 10:42:09 AM
Last edit: January 02, 2014, 11:05:03 AM by tenthirtyone
 #3298

Collecting bounty for:

Quote
36 shares for a price ticker in a forum.

I made an SMF mod to do just this. Demo can be seen here:

162.243.37.115 (Just a vanilla vps, I wasn't going to grab a domain for a demo)

I've submitted the mod to SMF since I'll be building it out for other coins in the future. I guess it takes some time for them to approve it so I uploaded a copy of the mod to dropbox too:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/591u0hd7sqgaa4g/dvcticker.tar.gz
http://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=3819

It updates every 5 seconds and is linked to crypto-trade.com's devcoin section.

Also I'm looking to get on the marketing share list. I put a banner on the main page of dvcticker.info and the chart subpages. I PM'd the person mentioned on devtome but haven't heard anything back.
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January 02, 2014, 01:35:40 PM
 #3299


A few of us have been working on FAQ - it's aimed at the less techy (everybody): http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_faq

I'll add that this was Notabot's idea and he contributed the bulk of the idea and content. Basic thought is that could be added in separate snappy tabs with general heading, in the same way as http://devcoin.org/devcoin-wallet.html - which gives us a little more room for info and in turn means most of it can remain static there with fewer back links to devtome - making it easier to maintain. Don't know what you think, but seems to make sense even as evolves over time?

A powerpoint deck would be great. I'm also thinking about writing to a couple of OS projects I like when client and few other things are finalised, so something simple and effective could do wonders. Totally agree on nothing to lose.

Edit: Should add - if anyone else has ideas on the FAQ then go for it, it's a group effort like Devcoin in general.

I would like to add the part about Devcoin's general idea as described by Hunterbunter here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=233997.msg4263629#msg4263629

If ok, let me think this over and compress it into a simple paragraph.

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January 02, 2014, 02:17:22 PM
 #3300

Devcoin should become a member of the Eclipse foundation http://www.eclipse.org/org/...

They accept donation via paypal so I emailed the webmaster (webmaster@eclipse.org) to accept dvc donations as it fits perfectly with the idea of eclipse.. If we get into this community it will open alot of eyes and doors.
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