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Author Topic: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated  (Read 959598 times)
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Unthinkingbit
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December 30, 2013, 04:05:02 AM
 #3161

..
I would like to claim the following bounty with this article: http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=investment_plan.  If there are no objections, I will receive 12 shares.  (Please feel free to go on the article and open a discussion on the talk page about corrections, inaccuracies, and improvements.)

You'll get 12 shares, there are four 12 share bounties remaining. Since there will be other investment plans, please make the title more specific, like Altcoin Day Trading or Investment Plan (Smeagol).

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December 30, 2013, 04:21:44 AM
Last edit: December 30, 2013, 05:37:10 AM by markm
 #3162

I would like to claim the following bounty with this article: http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=investment_plan.  If there are no objections, I will receive 12 shares.  (Please feel free to go on the article and open a discussion on the talk page about corrections, inaccuracies, and improvements.)
Quote
12 shares for the first five investment business plans, and 6 shares for the next five plans. The business plan would have to go on devtome, make sense, and be at least 500 words. The business plan can be about an investment club, investment strategy, speculation strategy, or another other way of making money by investing. It could also be about investing in non cryptocoin assets, like silver or stocks. If someone later makes a publicly traded company from that plan, the writer will get another six shares.

Um, that article doesn't seem to offer people any way to invest in your plan, nor indicate in what way it is a business (who are the customers of the business, how do they buy the service or product).

I think the bounties were not so much about a how to guide to how to invest personally in cryptocurrencies but, rather, about plans for businesses or investment funds or suchlike in which other people could invest or that provide services or goods for other people ("customers").

Spiff up your daytrading plan with some kind of shares people can buy into or something to make is a daytrading business, selling the service of daytrading to people or offering shares people can buy to get a portion of the profits or something and then I'd say okay that seems like a business.

As it is so far it seems more of a guide as to how employees (daytraders) of such a business could go about doing their job than a plan as to how such a business would operate in the sense of how it plans to attract and serve customers and earn hopefully eventually some profit doing so.

Maybe things like how many shares will be issued, how it will wind down being a business and move to being a private investment in the event it makes enough profit to no longer need "other people's money" in order to do its trading, how it will deal with losses, on what latform or by what method it will administrate its shares if it plans to sell shares of itself rather than just sell daytrading-as-a-service...

I have also thought about this kind of business, asking myself whether it is something General FInancial Corp should include among its activities or some new Corp should be launched to do it (General Trading Corp, maybe?) but I am not sure the volume is there, enough volume to be able to work with enough of "other people's money" to be able to pay a reasonable hourly wage to one or more daytraders and still come out ahead aka still either grow the Corp's capital or issue profits as dividends to shareholders.

How much do you or the business's employees currently make per day daytrading? What kind of wages do the daytrader(s) make, what kind of profits if any are left over after paying the daytrader(s)? How risky is it, do you see many days of no or negative income? What happens if there is not enough income to pay the wages? Etc.

How much of other people's money can the business accomodate? There is only so much capital one can reasonably move around in those markets isn't there? Or do you have a plan whereby even if someone said okay sure count me in for a hundred thousand bitcoins worth your traders would be able to operate effectively making reasonable profits for such an investor or customer?

Re the guestimate of receiver shares, it is merely a mean/average, the actual sending out of shares is a round-robin. Thus the more times the 4000 blocks gets to go around the robin (list), the closer it will be able to approach smooth/even distribution. The closer the number of shares in a round is to the limit of 4000 the more the difference in how many times around a given person was included in will make chunky differences / deviations from that mathematical ideal (the mean/average).

That is another reason to want to keep the number of shares per round low: it will get to loop more times through the list, so that being one of the odd ones out that didn't get included in the last loop-through would be less of a difference from what other people with the same number of shares in that round got.

For example if there are 3999 shares, one share gets looped-through twice. If there are 3991 shares, nine shares get looped through twice, and so on.


Back to the "business plan", I now see Unthinkingbit approved it. Unthinkingbit, could you explain a little more what you mean by "a business", inasmuch as I don't see any customers in Smeagol's plan, it looks to me more like a how to play the markets guide or something along those lines.

EDIT: Just to add some clarity: long ago on NetMarketingForum dot com I learned that the big, major, massive difference between a business and a self-employed job is employees. Being self-employed is a hobby (if it is not making profit) or a job, not a business. The big challenge is to turn it into a business, that is, to make it scale-able, to make it not be limited to just what the one person can do as their hobby or job. If it is just you, you are just doing a job, and often not a particularly profitable one, in fact often working for less than minimum wage, which is not sustainable when you need to start replacing that employee with someone else who will do that job for the business or expand by hiring more people to do that job for the business in addition to the person currently doing it.

-MarkM-

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December 30, 2013, 05:44:31 AM
 #3163

As a side note they also only let you have 100 open positions at any one time (according to their API page), which means you could only really have 100 santoshis difference between the lowest and highest prices, and if you're creating buy as well as sell orders, it's only really 50 santoshis either way. Seeing as you've put in lots of orders already, does this mean you have hundreds/thousands of open orders on vircurex? Also, is it more important for you to set the price in 1 santoshi increments, or set the range (eg 50-350 santoshis) with it working out the increments itself?

I have many hundreds of open orders.

I have many on the same price, even, because I have started back at one satoshi all over again many times by now.

Ok, I'll see if it's just outdated documentation, perhaps it lets more than 100 now. Will test with the api and see.

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December 30, 2013, 06:48:05 AM
 #3164

I have updated http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=general_financial_corp

What does it need to turn it into "a business plan", if anything?

Some kind of plans, presumably, as to what it plans to do moving forward?

Or is just sitting there collecting more interest from its clients that it loans to while paying less interest to the Martians from whom they borrowed their operating capital a sufficient plan for now?

They currently charge their clients

INTEREST_RATE=1.00010405 # 0.25001900%/day compounded hourly

while being charged by the Martians

INTEREST_RATE=1.00005205 # 0.12499400%/day compounded hourly

The interest accrual scripts always use a minimum of one hour.

(That is partly so they could also be used in applications such as shorting and such without encouraging getting spammed with rapid-fire "borrow, repay, borrow, repay" kind of activity.)

-MarkM-

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December 30, 2013, 08:25:08 AM
 #3165

Um, that article doesn't seem to offer people any way to invest in your plan, nor indicate in what way it is a business (who are the customers of the business, how do they buy the service or product)...
Yeah I'd agree with that. I understood the bounty as for a plan that will either make a return in devcoins or add value to devcoins. Both have ideas but nothing substantial enough to actually implement without additional information and analysis or backtesting.

On your stuff mark, I'd have thought an automated system of what you're already doing with the vircurex orderbook, particularly if incorporated into the work of one of the corps, would fit the bill. That could be as an investable entity or even just as an effort that works to reinforce dvc price and liquidity without necessarily being something others can invest in. I don't really get what the 'corps' are doing at the moment or what their relationship is to each other, so perhaps something already fits the bill, not sure.
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December 30, 2013, 08:40:01 AM
 #3166

I have updated http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=general_financial_corp

What does it need to turn it into "a business plan", if anything?

Some kind of plans, presumably, as to what it plans to do moving forward?

Or is just sitting there collecting more interest from its clients that it loans to while paying less interest to the Martians from whom they borrowed their operating capital a sufficient plan for now?

They currently charge their clients

INTEREST_RATE=1.00010405 # 0.25001900%/day compounded hourly

while being charged by the Martians

INTEREST_RATE=1.00005205 # 0.12499400%/day compounded hourly

The interest accrual scripts always use a minimum of one hour.

(That is partly so they could also be used in applications such as shorting and such without encouraging getting spammed with rapid-fire "borrow, repay, borrow, repay" kind of activity.)

-MarkM-

So when is their margin call? When do they have to buy at market to service their debt because dvc
is too high? When many ppl short at a low price the average margin call price is known so you get a short covering rally.
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December 30, 2013, 08:45:43 AM
 #3167

I started a page about the very first of the many Galactic Repo Corps:

http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=first_galactic_repo

Going through each of it's planets typing-over the details of its current state of development seems kind of tedious so I thought having put a section about the first of its six planets I would come ask if this looks like what might be wanted or useful.

If it is, then maybe it could be worthwhile to look into developing some kind of automation that can grab the current status of a Corp's planets and transcribe them to the wiki or use them to generate a wiki page or whatever.

The basic plan of a Repo Corp is to use the proection of the planets that it repossessed to pay off the outstanding debts of the repossessed operation.

Accordingly I have listed the hourly production of the first planet, and the other planets would copy that same format, and the whole page's format would be copied for each of the Galactic Repo Corps, which so far comprise First Galactic Repo (FGR), Second Galactic Repo (SGR), Third Galactic Repo (TGR), and Galactic Repos 4 through 38 (GR4 through GR38).

I provided a link to a not yet existing wiki page [[Galactic Repo Corps]] as I think it will be more economical of words (thus pay me less shares, oh well) to put in such a page general background information such as that the main customers of these Corps, the buyers of their production (mostly the deuterium, for stockpiling against a day when the home galaxy defense fleets will need lots and lots and lots of it) are General Mining Corp and General Retirement Corp, both of which operate depots on several planets throughout the Galaxies Online family of galaxies.

The prices they pay for deuterium are show in a table that is linked from near the bottom of the page found at

http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html

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December 30, 2013, 08:58:13 AM
Last edit: December 30, 2013, 09:12:38 AM by markm
 #3168

So when is their margin call? When do they have to buy at market to service their debt because dvc
is too high? When many ppl short at a low price the average margin call price is known so you get a short covering rally.

The shorting example of a possible future use of the interest calculation scripts is just an example of what such scripts could be useful for in the future; the long term secured loans that General Financial Corp currently operates do not operate on a margin calls basis; rather, reposession corps have been created and deployed that have repossessed the operations of clients who were long long in default, and those repo corps are the ones my previous post begins to describe.

Basically the scripts use an hourly compounding basis for futire compatibility with applications in which hour by hour is required more than it possibly might be required for these current kinds of long term loans.

Furthermore notice the provision of a "latest rates" file, and historical tables and plots of rates. There are no-where near enough DeVCoins to pay off loans of this magnitude, the loans are denominated in DeVCoin mostly so as to prevent the kinds of severe problems exchange-rates had been causing; the Martians used such a table of rates to calculate how many DeVCoins the number of Martian BotCoins owed was purportedly worth in order to denominate their loan to General Financial Corp in DeVCoins instead of in Martian BotCoins.

If you observe the historical prices of deuterium over time, you will see that the primary currencies, MBC, CDN, UKB etc, were going up so rapidly in value that it no longer seemed practical to expect any deuterium-producers to ever manage to produce enough deuterium to pay back their initial original startup loans (which were 500 GMC and 500 GRF per such startup operation back when they started up). Thus, rather than allow the whole "defensive shell of galaxies around the home galaxies" plan to collapse, the governments, statesmen, corporations and such all worked to find a compromise that would allow the large scale intergalactic defense fleets plan to proceed; one of the results was to choose DeVCoin as the currency of choice for denominating such loans, since if you observe again the deuterium prices table, you will see that the price as expressed in DeVCoins was far far more stable than the price as expressed in any of the very rapidly appreciating currencies of the Milieu. Thus General Financial Corp was brought into existence.

(Although I saw just now in preparing that wiki page about First Galactic Repo that FGR has not yet re-financed their loans, thus are still racking up debt to the Brits, denominated in United Kingdom Britcoin (UKB) and to the United Nations, denominated in United Nations Scrip (UNS).)

The home galaxies need defence fleets, so ultimately it is all the civilised nations, aka civilisations, of the Galactic Milieu that want these operations to succeed, so even if General Mining Corp and General Retirement Corp for some reason prove unable to provide enough custom for the repo corps the governments of the civilised worlds will find some other way to ensure the operations continue.

-MarkM-

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December 30, 2013, 10:45:34 AM
 #3169

Quote
12 shares for the first five investment business plans, and 6 shares for the next five plans. The business plan would have to go on devtome, make sense, and be at least 500 words. The business plan can be about an investment club, investment strategy, speculation strategy, or another other way of making money by investing. It could also be about investing in non cryptocoin assets, like silver or stocks. If someone later makes a publicly traded company from that plan, the writer will get another six shares.

I may have missed something in the bounty, but I do not see where it has to be related to DVC or increasing the value of DVC.  As a matter of fact, the bounty says "It could also be about investing in non cryptocoin assets, like silver or stocks".

My article was 1000+ words, understandable, published on devtome, and is about group buying which I see as an investment club or "any other way to make money by investing", which is mentioned in the original bounty. 

All that being said, I 100% respect the decision of the admins as to whether or not the article meets the requirements of the bounties with no hard feelings  Smiley

I hope this did not come across as disrespectful, that is never, never my intention.


Papa

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December 30, 2013, 01:47:11 PM
Last edit: December 30, 2013, 02:13:21 PM by weisoq
 #3170

I may have missed something in the bounty, but I do not see where it has to be related to DVC or increasing the value of DVC.  As a matter of fact, the bounty says "It could also be about investing in non cryptocoin assets, like silver or stocks".

My article was 1000+ words, understandable, published on devtome, and is about group buying which I see as an investment club or "any other way to make money by investing", which is mentioned in the original bounty.  

All that being said, I 100% respect the decision of the admins as to whether or not the article meets the requirements of the bounties with no hard feelings  Smiley

I hope this did not come across as disrespectful, that is never, never my intention.
Papa
It doesn't come across as disrespectful and I hope my post which is just my opinion didn't either. The devcoin aspect - ok perhaps my misunderstanding or assumptions of devcoin bounties.

My point was that the bounties are for a plan, not an idea. So perhaps we just have a difference of opinion as to what a plan is and whether a plan is about the past, present or future - and whether in the case of direct financial investment such as yours there needs to be more comprehensive analysis and forecasting. For example, this is directed at people reading the devcoin thread. So do they invest USD or BTC from DVC exchange? What conversion rates are estimated? How does price variance affect ROI? What have historical returns on DZ Miner (and competion) been? How is that forecast to change with difficulty and hardware advances? How does that affect ROI etc? You refer to ROI but don't put an actual or target number on it.

This is not directed only at your plan, just that a rational investment needs a more detailed investment plan or it's just an idea, or a punt. Perhaps you have done all that analysis and research, but then shouldn't you outline it in the plan? If the numbers make sense then I for one would certainly be interested.
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December 30, 2013, 03:09:52 PM
 #3171

You'll get 12 shares, there are four 12 share bounties remaining. Since there will be other investment plans, please make the title more specific, like Altcoin Day Trading or Investment Plan (Smeagol).

Done. (http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=altcoin_day_trading_investment_plan)

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December 30, 2013, 03:28:47 PM
Last edit: December 30, 2013, 03:44:11 PM by Hunterbunter
 #3172

Which brings me to hey how about a bounty for a tool one can use to say "place orders on each and every satoshi of price if possible, if not as many satoshis of price as possible, evenly spread starting at this low price going up to this high price using this many coins" ?

Basically I am spending 16+ hour days manually typing in on Vircurex offers at every satoshi of price, not just on devcoins (I already did them long ago) but now also on IXCoins and I0Coins and hey what the heck even on DOGE. In general I think it would be beneficial if all coins had offers at all possible prices, no empty satoshis of price inbetween.

I looked in Virturex FAQ for frequently asked questions about their API but didn't even see "do you even have an API" listed there.

But I think they do have one even if not active right now as I seem to recall having seen an announcement once upon  time that they were disabling the API temporarily to fix something or something like that.

In general whichever exchange one ends up using, a tool for that exchange would be useful for doing this, as a lot of the price volatility on all exchanges on all coins is simple lazienss of people just posting one offer instead of spreading their offer across every possible price to ensure no gaps thus to smooth out changes in prices.

-MarkM-

I agree that it would be great to place a spread of orders. If someone finds an API call that does this, or finds a bot that already can do this I suggest 4 shares. If it turns out you need to modify or develop a bot to do this, 24 shares for coding. Any objections, or should something be changed?


Ok I couldn't find any direct calls in the API to do just this, nor a bot, so I wrote one with the support of a wrapper I modified from github (link in file).

https://github.com/hunterbunter/vircurex-python-shotgunbot

I've tested it and it seems to be behaving as intended, except I don't have the cryptofunds on hand at the moment to put it through it's pacing on 100+ orders (they're tied up testing my volatility bot). Each order has to to have a minimum btc volume of 0.0001 btc, so while I know my bot can handle it, I'm still not sure if Vircurex is going to complain. If anyone can test it out, that'd be great, otherwise I'll wait a few days for my testing run to finish and move some funds over to test.

There's a handy delete all button on the vircurex order page which makes it easy to clear all the orders the bot creates. I was going to code this in but I don't know if it's worth it...thoughts?

Lastly, I was using powershell to develop it and didn't realize it wraps around in command prompt if you run it through there (on windows)...will put editting the text to make it more readable on my todo list.

To use the bot:

- copy/clone the files from github
- use either 'python shotgunbot.py' or '.\shotgun.py' to run it (to those who don't already have it, you need python installed for it to work)
- enter vircurex username/API password (not login password, check settings to set these, make them the same for all)
- save username/password to file, or not (to save you having to type it in every time)
- enter the currency you want to trade
- enter minimum price *in santoshis* (eg entering 65 would be 0.00000065 btc)
- enter maximum price in santoshis
- enter how much BTC you want to put up (it'll show you how much you have available), just enter if you want to use it all
- enter how much alt-currency you want to put up
- read report, y to confirm
- watch your orders either get released or fail.
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December 30, 2013, 04:08:55 PM
 #3173

Hi, I guess I'd like to collect a bounty for the DVC/USD price chart.

Quote
Devcoin/USD Chart

9 shares remaining for a chart which shows the price of devcoins in USD. The chart should show prices from at least 3 months in the past, if there is no way to get historical data then the website has to be able to store data daily so that the chart could eventually display 3 months.

I launched dvcticker.info over the weekend.

It uses crypto-trade.com's api to pull prices, displays the current statistics. It can be expanded for other apis. Originally I tried vircurex but their docs are terrible.

The site features a DVC/BTC & DVC/USD chart

Historical data for the past 30 days is provided via json @ http://dvcticker.info/history/ so if anyone would like to take this data and make their own charts/run analysis please feel free.

Since the site has just launched it will take ~29 more days before all the data is there. Right now I'm pulling/storing trading data every minute (Devcoin moves slowly anymore felt like overkill & had storage impact).

All the source is available. I can create a github repository once I get a thumbs up from an admin that this is good to go to collect.
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December 30, 2013, 04:36:03 PM
Last edit: December 31, 2013, 02:45:42 AM by smeagol
 #3174

Hi, I guess I'd like to collect a bounty for the DVC/USD price chart.
dvcticker.info

If there are no objections within 4 days, you will receive 9 shares. Congrats on your first bounty by the way!

Ok I couldn't find any direct calls in the API to do just this, nor a bot, so I wrote one with the support of a wrapper I modified from github (link in file).

https://github.com/hunterbunter/vircurex-python-shotgunbot

Once this has been tested, and there are no objections, you will receive your bounty (24 shares)

I suggest a bounty of 3 shares then 2 shares for a testing report on this bot, any objections?

I also would like to claim 12 shares based on my article located here:  http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=plan_for_investing_in_group_buys , of course that is if there are no objections.

If there are no objections within 4 days, you will receive 12 shares.

To all: Remember, anyone who has ever received generation devcoins can suggest, propose, and claim bounties!

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December 30, 2013, 05:14:43 PM
 #3175

Hello everyone on the thread.  I have an important announcement!

My DVC address is...
13uzim3VkT6YSEGsUA7KxKkimepsaLF7ZE

Please do not send DVC to my old address, I do not have my wallet anymore!
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December 30, 2013, 09:37:34 PM
 #3176

..
Um, that article doesn't seem to offer people any way to invest in your plan, nor indicate in what way it is a business (who are the customers of the business, how do they buy the service or product).
..
Back to the "business plan", I now see Unthinkingbit approved it. Unthinkingbit, could you explain a little more what you mean by "a business", inasmuch as I don't see any customers in Smeagol's plan, it looks to me more like a how to play the markets guide or something along those lines.

The investment plan bounty is pretty open:
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_bounty_now#investment_business_plan

The purpose of it is to find some way of making money. It could be a plan or idea, later someone could make a publicly traded business out of it, or people could make money from a trading strategy. I expect most plans and ideas to go nowhere, there are 10 awards so that hopefully one of them will make lots of money. The requirement is basically that it must make sense, and be at least 500 words, so that people can grasp it. Also, although I didn't mention it in the bounty, charts and graphs help.

It's up to Smeagol to award the bounties for everyone else's plan. I handled the award for Smeagol because no one can award a bounty to themselves. When I made the bounty I assumed that everyone would have one plan per article, but having multiple ideas is ok. For Smeagol's plan, his ideas make sense, the article is well over 500 words, and he has good images:
http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=altcoin_day_trading_investment_plan

so I awarded him the bounty.

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December 30, 2013, 10:08:30 PM
 #3177

request at unocoin (Indian btc site) to add DVC
https://www.unocoin.com/contact.php

Done.  Everyone please do this!

Done

DVC Address : 1EfsiVUECqmR5Qx7C4PkmwadDXYuSGzssL
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December 30, 2013, 11:13:52 PM
 #3178

Let people first and foremost provide music for free (and get compensated in DVC), so other people can use that music for free in their projects.

It seems MarkM's point is being, largely, missed.

If we are talking about free music then the authors of said music can simply release it to the public domain. That is not the same as Open Source. It is my feeling what MarkM is referring to is the Source part. If a programmer writes a program and releases it to Open Source then that source code is available and anyone can modify it to fit their whim. If an artist releases a painting to Open Source then, as MarkM suggested, one would need to know each brush stroke of it's creation so that it could be modified to meet one's whim.

The closest way one could do this with music is to release the scores in my opinion and perhaps terming the license Open Scores, not Open Source. Open Source implies more than that the software is simply free. It also implies that one can modify and use it as fits their whim. To my understanding a copyright on music can be held if one uses more than 8 consecutive notes. So one would, in theory, be able to use up to seven notes of a rif and copyright it even though it was released as Open Source.

Let's keep in mind that the Open Source licensing was put in place with software in mind, not music or art. As far as just releasing something free to the world at large then, perhaps, releasing to the Public Domain would better fit.

DVC Address : 1EfsiVUECqmR5Qx7C4PkmwadDXYuSGzssL
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December 31, 2013, 12:00:09 AM
Last edit: December 31, 2013, 12:13:23 AM by markm
 #3179

Yeah really.

Imagine if programmers sleazed the gig the way some musicians and paint-program-users and such want to.

Here ya go, here is a free program for Fedora Linux Version 17.

Oh you want that for Windows? Sorry, that is gonna cost ya...

Here ya go, here is a free accounting program to do 2013 book-keeping for you.

Oh you wanna do 2014 now? That is gonna cost ya...

Here is a free  browser for you, you can browse my website with it.

Oh you wanna browse someone else's website? Sorry, not with my program you don't...

Etc.

Seriously. I have seen them take multiple layer images, even stuff like text on one layer landscape on another, and hold back the layers, so if you want to change the text or eliminate the text you have to go in with an eraser then try to re-create the parts of the landscape the text had covered.

That is totally anti-open-source. You need the layers in order to do the simplest stupid tweaks/hacks.

Or they will take a very high resolution image, blurr it down to a compressed .jpg for the web, and hold back the actual image, releasing only the blurry compressed for the web .jpg they compiled from it using in effect an image-compiler. Their whole business-model is often about holding back the source and releasing only such compiled stuff.

With music they take a whole bunch of tracks, maybe even one per instrument or "voice", then just like with the images they crush them all together into one track they release so you cannot manipulate the tracks separately. Again, totally anti-open-source.

-MarkM-

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December 31, 2013, 12:55:56 AM
 #3180

request at unocoin (Indian btc site) to add DVC
https://www.unocoin.com/contact.php

Done.  Everyone please do this!

Done, also send a request to http://bex.io

Done

DVC Address : 1EfsiVUECqmR5Qx7C4PkmwadDXYuSGzssL
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