[ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread

[Ytterbium]

Least of all, let's not forget VMC also sells chips in bulk, so there's no money to spend on "blank PCBs" there.

Someone has to spend the money on those PCBs.  And the point of the chart is that, overall, it will be cheaper to stick with the regular ASICs until you get up to 300k units (per whatever time period they're estimating), it would just be a waste of money otherwise. Obviously, if the power/wattage is better then that will be an additional consideration.

The point of the chart is to compare chip unit price with sales volume, meaning that VMC can/will have access to chip prices that can be competitive with anyone else. This was the original issue you raised, unit price.

Not exactly, You won't be able to sell, say, 900k easicopy chips the day after your nextreme chips come out of the fab.  there will be a whole other development process, possibly taking months, before you can sell orders.  Companies like Cointerra/HashFast/ and KnC will be able to sell chips/modules with a much shorter turnaround time, which is pretty critical in the bitcoin space.

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[Vbs]

Not exactly, You won't be able to sell, say, 900k easicopy chips the day after your nextreme chips come out of the fab.  there will be a whole other development process, possibly taking months, before you can sell orders.  Companies like Cointerra/HashFast/ and KnC will be able to sell chips/modules with a much shorter turnaround time, which is pretty critical in the bitcoin space.

eAsic takes a different and very efficient approach to minimize design time on Nextreme to standard-cell conversion.

http://www.easic.com/migration-to-cell-based-asic/migration-to-cell-based-asic-simple-design-flow/
The starting point for most easicopy designs is a eASIC Nextreme or Nextreme-2 design. This enables eASIC engineers to leverage much of the work that has already been done from a design that is already successfully in production. In addition, this helps to reduce the overall time to production for the easicopy design.

The easicopy design flow is shown below. At the front end it requires a eASIC Nextreme or Nextreme-2 synthesized netlist and an SDC timing constraints file. After initial synthesis, the design is taken through a traditional cell-based ASIC flow by eASIC engineers. This includes Design For Test (DFT) insertion and synthesis, and then back-end physical implemention which includes floorplanning, I/O ring design, power mesh design, timing driven place and route, timing closure, parasitic extraction, final STA, and tapeout readiness.



eASIC engineers have extensive experience in converting FPGA designs to via-programmable eASIC Nextreme or Nextreme-2 NEW ASIC, and then eASIC Nextreme or Nextreme-2 NEW ASIC designs to cell-based, easicopy ASIC.

http://www.easic.com/migration-to-cell-based-asic/migration-to-cell-based-asic-risk-mitigation/

Design Risk Mitigation - having successfully converted an FPGA prototype design to eASIC Nextreme or Nextreme-2, eASIC engineers have already made a number of changes that will make the conversion to an easicopy ASIC simpler. In addition your designers will work with the same eASIC engineers that have already helped you to successfully take your eASIC Nextreme or Nextreme-2 design to production.

[Ytterbium]

Not exactly, You won't be able to sell, say, 900k easicopy chips the day after your nextreme chips come out of the fab.  there will be a whole other development process, possibly taking months, before you can sell orders.  Companies like Cointerra/HashFast/ and KnC will be able to sell chips/modules with a much shorter turnaround time, which is pretty critical in the bitcoin space.

eAsic takes a different and very efficient approach to minimize design time on Nextreme to standard-cell conversion.

That's nice.  Unfortunately "minimized" is not a very concrete amount of time.

[Vbs]

Not exactly, You won't be able to sell, say, 900k easicopy chips the day after your nextreme chips come out of the fab.  there will be a whole other development process, possibly taking months, before you can sell orders.  Companies like Cointerra/HashFast/ and KnC will be able to sell chips/modules with a much shorter turnaround time, which is pretty critical in the bitcoin space.

eAsic takes a different and very efficient approach to minimize design time on Nextreme to standard-cell conversion.

That's nice.  Unfortunately "minimized" is not a very concrete amount of time.

True, but you are also paying a premium for their expertise. These are not guys that have the luxury of simulating one stuff and delivering another very different. They have survived on the market since 1999 for a reason.

[kleeck]

Not exactly, You won't be able to sell, say, 900k easicopy chips the day after your nextreme chips come out of the fab.  there will be a whole other development process, possibly taking months, before you can sell orders.  Companies like Cointerra/HashFast/ and KnC will be able to sell chips/modules with a much shorter turnaround time, which is pretty critical in the bitcoin space.

eAsic takes a different and very efficient approach to minimize design time on Nextreme to standard-cell conversion.

That's nice.  Unfortunately "minimized" is not a very concrete amount of time.

True, but you are also paying a premium for their expertise. These are not guys that have the luxury of simulating one stuff and delivering another very different. They have survived on the market since 1999 for a reason.

"Survived" is putting it lightly...

http://www.easic.com/easic-rated-third-fastest-growing-semiconductor-company-in-north-america-on-deloittes-2012-technology-fast-500/

http://www.easic.com/easic-wins-alwayson-ao-100-top-private-company-award-for-its-innovative-structured-asic-technology/


"Notability: - Over 100 Design Wins for Nextreme means that a large Number of Engineers are working with the devices - EDN Innovation Award Finalist - the award is very significant and should count towards meeting the notability criteria even if the company was 'only' finalist and did not win the award - Offers a new approach to ASICs and is therefore of general interest to engineers"
(Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Bonf/EASIC)

just to display a bit of the eASIC prowess.

[Vbs]

"Survived" is putting it lightly...

http://www.easic.com/easic-rated-third-fastest-growing-semiconductor-company-in-north-america-on-deloittes-2012-technology-fast-500/

http://www.easic.com/easic-wins-alwayson-ao-100-top-private-company-award-for-its-innovative-structured-asic-technology/


"Notability: - Over 100 Design Wins for Nextreme means that a large Number of Engineers are working with the devices - EDN Innovation Award Finalist - the award is very significant and should count towards meeting the notability criteria even if the company was 'only' finalist and did not win the award - Offers a new approach to ASICs and is therefore of general interest to engineers"
(Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Bonf/EASIC)

just to display a bit of the eASIC prowess.

Yeah, there's no doubt eAsic is in a very different league than anyone else doing bitcoin chips.

[pheaonix]

"Survived" is putting it lightly...

http://www.easic.com/easic-rated-third-fastest-growing-semiconductor-company-in-north-america-on-deloittes-2012-technology-fast-500/

http://www.easic.com/easic-wins-alwayson-ao-100-top-private-company-award-for-its-innovative-structured-asic-technology/


"Notability: - Over 100 Design Wins for Nextreme means that a large Number of Engineers are working with the devices - EDN Innovation Award Finalist - the award is very significant and should count towards meeting the notability criteria even if the company was 'only' finalist and did not win the award - Offers a new approach to ASICs and is therefore of general interest to engineers"
(Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Bonf/EASIC)

just to display a bit of the eASIC prowess.

Yeah, there's no doubt eAsic is in a very different league than anyone else doing bitcoin chips.

i.e. heavily backed up TSMC and their lesser brethren. but boy, they sure can churn out some 130nm chips fast huh?


well, i am glad i moved my shares to btctc

don't listen to the trolls, just count your cash.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWpHb0WF48o

[Ytterbium]

"Survived" is putting it lightly...

http://www.easic.com/easic-rated-third-fastest-growing-semiconductor-company-in-north-america-on-deloittes-2012-technology-fast-500/

http://www.easic.com/easic-wins-alwayson-ao-100-top-private-company-award-for-its-innovative-structured-asic-technology/


"Notability: - Over 100 Design Wins for Nextreme means that a large Number of Engineers are working with the devices - EDN Innovation Award Finalist - the award is very significant and should count towards meeting the notability criteria even if the company was 'only' finalist and did not win the award - Offers a new approach to ASICs and is therefore of general interest to engineers"
(Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Bonf/EASIC)

just to display a bit of the eASIC prowess.

Yeah, there's no doubt eAsic is in a very different league than anyone else doing bitcoin chips.

Bitcoin chips aren't really that complicated. ActM is a customer for a fairly simple service they offer: FPGA - ASIC conversion.  Ken is responsible for the implementation, not eAsic.

Cointerra probably has the highest engineering ability of all the players.

[Ukyo]

Cointerra probably has the highest engineering ability of all the players.

Of all the "new" players?

FC has done a fairly decent job. I wouldn't be too surprised by anything he pops out.

[iCEBREAKER]

Yeah, there's no doubt eAsic is in a very different league than anyone else doing bitcoin chips.

Bitcoin chips aren't really that complicated. ActM is a customer for a fairly simple service they offer: FPGA - ASIC conversion.  Ken is responsible for the implementation, not eAsic.

Cointerra Uniquify probably has the highest engineering ability of all the players.

Fixed it for you!  eASIC are just beginning to touch the 28nm space. 

Uniquify has been there, done that, and taped out many times.   

[Ytterbium]

Cointerra probably has the highest engineering ability of all the players.

Of all the "new" players?

FC has done a fairly decent job. I wouldn't be too surprised by anything he pops out.

To be honest, I don't exactly see designing a bitcoin hashing chip as much of a challenge. I was just pointing out that of all the players, Cointerra has probably got the most experience actually designing chips, especially at 28nm and below.

[pheaonix]

Cointerra probably has the highest engineering ability of all the players.

Of all the "new" players?

FC has done a fairly decent job. I wouldn't be too surprised by anything he pops out.

To be honest, I don't exactly see designing a bitcoin hashing chip as much of a challenge. I was just pointing out that of all the players, Cointerra has probably got the most experience actually designing chips, especially at 28nm and below.

you have done your research, you know full custom isn't as easy as slapping together prebuilt rtl

i agree though, it isn't as difficult as people make it out to be

[stslimited]

Cointerra probably has the highest engineering ability of all the players.

Of all the "new" players?

FC has done a fairly decent job. I wouldn't be too surprised by anything he pops out.

To be honest, I don't exactly see designing a bitcoin hashing chip as much of a challenge. I was just pointing out that of all the players, Cointerra has probably got the most experience actually designing chips, especially at 28nm and below.

there is nothing novel about making a single purpose processing chip, which is why the last two decades have seen innovation in general processing chips that do everything poorly but quickly

nobody is really debating this fact

[Ytterbium]

To be honest, I don't exactly see designing a bitcoin hashing chip as much of a challenge. I was just pointing out that of all the players, Cointerra has probably got the most experience actually designing chips, especially at 28nm and below.

there is nothing novel about making a single purpose processing chip, which is why the last two decades have seen innovation in general processing chips that do everything poorly but quickly

nobody is really debating this fact

Obviously a lot of people seem to think it's some kind of extreme engineering challenge, only capable of being done by the greatest minds in the industry, which is ridiculous.

[zefyr0s]

Wait which is the one boasting that Cointerra's team is the toppest notchest? (Nothing 'gainst them, just using the reference here)

It wasn't ytt?

[xchrisxsays]

Wait which is the one boasting that Cointerra's team is the toppest notchest? (Nothing 'gainst them, just using the reference here)

It wasn't ytt?

This is Ytterbium in every thread:

[Ytterbium]

Wait which is the one boasting that Cointerra's team is the toppest notchest? (Nothing 'gainst them, just using the reference here)

It wasn't ytt?

I think they have the highest skill level, but I don't think that's going to make much difference overall.  There were two separate issues: 1) Who is the best, and 2) how much of a difference is going to make

I think the answers are 1: Cointerra, and 2: Not much.

Does that make sense?

I don't think Cointerra is going to make the most money for miners - after Avalon B1 and B2, and of course bitfury, KnC will - it's all about deployment and delivery dates, and Cointerra is going to be one of the last.

This is Ytterbium in every thread:

Oh, sorry if I don't think mindlessly saying everything is awesome is the best way for people to make money.  Serious questions and concerns need to be raised about every security.  On the real stock market you have to list "risks" associated with a stock right in the prospectus.

Yet, around here people flip out and call you a troll if you point out any potential problems.  It's ridiculous.

[aquarius]

Wait which is the one boasting that Cointerra's team is the toppest notchest? (Nothing 'gainst them, just using the reference here)

It wasn't ytt?

I think they have the highest skill level, but I don't think that's going to make much difference overall.  There were two separate issues: 1) Who is the best, and 2) how much of a difference is going to make

I think the answers are 1: Cointerra, and 2: Not much.

Does that make sense?

I don't think Cointerra is going to make the most money for miners - after Avalon B1 and B2, and of course bitfury, KnC will - it's all about deployment and delivery dates, and Cointerra is going to be one of the last.

This is Ytterbium in every thread:

Oh, sorry if I don't think mindlessly saying everything is awesome is the best way for people to make money.  Serious questions and concerns need to be raised about every security.  On the real stock market you have to list "risks" associated with a stock right in the prospectus.

Yet, around here people flip out and call you a troll if you point out any potential problems.  It's ridiculous.

O´rly..

you do seem to be a very nervous person.

[Ytterbium]

O´rly..

you do seem to be a very nervous person.

It's called prudence, dude.



I just happen to think it's a good idea to have a good sense of what you're doing before you throw your money around.  Sorry if that harshes your buzz, man.

The only thing I'm nervous about is injuring my eyeballs from rolling them too hard.

[coinfresh]

O´rly..

you do seem to be a very nervous person.

Not only that, but I think he likes to argue just for the sake of arguing. Just seems like useless bullshit keeps spewing from his posts. But so many posts here are like that.