[ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread

[Vbs]

My suggestion for the product list is:

1) Bulk chips.

2) PCIe 1x cards, with discounts for bulk orders.

That's it.  The reason is, a PCIe card can basically be produced entirely by an SMT line, with no manual labor at all. When the user gets it they can plug it into any motherboard.   Since they already appear to be doing something like that, that would be the way to go.

You can retail off the shelf cases/back-planes/host controllers etc (something like a PCIe based version of the bitfury m-board) - but those should not be the 'main' products and they would ship separately, etc.

Both are already there, except for the discount on bulk pcie card purchases.

http://virtualminingcorp.com/shop1/index.php?id_product=26&controller=product
Fast-Hash-One Platinum 256 GH/s PCI-E Long Module.  Less than 200 Watts.

Our cards can be used on any regular Intel/AMD motherboard!

They are currently in a design stage, to be built in a single-slot form-factor, similar to the illustration above, but using a blower-type fan assembly that expels the hot air outside your system case.

Connection requirements: the card will support a PCIE x1 connector, so you can fit it into any free PCIE x1, x4, x8, or x16 slot in your motherboard.  Alternatively, it also has an USB connector so you can use it unplugged from a motherboard like any other regular USB bitcoin miner!

Estimated Power requirements:
One PCIE six-pin power connector plus one PCIE eight-pin power connector.

Required software drivers allowing card usage in popular bitcoin mining programs will be release in due time before cards are shipped.

Bulk chips: http://virtualminingcorp.com/shop1/index.php?id_product=14&controller=product

[Stuartuk]

Why are all of you ok with not knowing the foundry? Every other company discloses the foundry they use publicly.

Considering you have that ammount invested have you even looked at the eASIC website where the foundaries they use are shown?

[dexX7]

But dex, think of the FUD opportunities!

BitFunder went below IPO earlier and BTC-TC is on the same level as before the press release (which I declare as very significant). What I think: speculators are already out and those who held ActM before the eASIC deal are now even more confident.

Thanks for this, so its not as hard to produce an active mining asic compared to asicminer and labcoin?

Is it as good? And if so why don't the other companies do this?

As far as I know it is easier, but I think eASIC does finalize the chip design anyway. There are pros and cons using structured ASICs. I assume they might be bit slower due to their overhead (disclaimer: no real knowledge here), though they should be much cheaper and faster to produce.

I will be honest, I have lost over $3000 on this stock so far, I can't even sell to recoup any losses and my only chance to get back is if this company works out. I just don't understand the no information thing.

Why are all of you ok with not knowing the foundry? Every other company discloses the foundry they use publicly.

They deal with eASIC. This does provide much more confidence than "an IC producer who uses TMSC", at least for me. Lame analogy: a meal baked in a perfect oven is not to be guaranteed more delicious than a meal cooked by a professional chef cook.

One additional note: "bucket shop foundries" are most likely non-existent, especially for a transistor size of 28 nm. Wikipedia has a list of fabrication plants, if you're interested in digging deeper: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_semiconductor_fabrication_plants

[Ytterbium]

Nope, they are a fabless company.

Fabless means they are outsourcing the fabrication. Due to the nature of eASIC producing structured ASICs I'm convinced they are partnered with a semiconductor foundry and this is already covered.

I am getting the feeling that the nameless semiconductor foundry is remaining nameless for a reason, because TSMC would be far better and the share price would fall even lower if we found out.

I don't understand why the secrecy around a darn semiconductor company, we know that hashfast, avalon, labcoin all use TSMC.

It doesn't make any difference at all. Being made by TSMC isn't going to make the chip any better then being made at any other fab, other then perhaps batch yeild. 

Also, eASIC 'nextreme' chips are made in a special way - the part of the wafer with the actual silicon is created first and ready to go. That means they have to have things setup with the fab for them to apply whatever metal layers they want to wafers that already have FPGA-style LUTs on them.  The silicon layers are the same for all 'nextreme' chips.  ActM chips will have the same base layers as seagate and all their customers.

The difference is in the metal layers on top of the silicon. The customer only gets a custom top layer. One key difference is that this makes NRE prices way lower, and on top of that, it also means way less time.  You can be working on your metal layer while the wafers are already 'cooking' in the fab.  So it should take less time from tapeout to production then a traditional ASIC.

The downside, of course, is far larger surface area per chip. That means it costs more to produce the chip, per GH/s then KnC, Cointerra, and HashFast.  And possibly even more then BTCGarden (40nm) or Bitfury (55nm)


Also, as someone points out in a custom hardware thread, their prices need to come down as well to get any retail sales:

24TH/s for 353k$?
Competition is cheaper.

a quick comparison...

Shipping the same month as Cointerra and a month after Hashfast and 2 months after KnC?   to reach 24 TH/s you'd need 12 of the Cointerra TM IV boxes... and at $14k each thats $168k versus $353k with vmc/amc
  those ct boxes (or hashfash equivalents) would consume about 12 KW and cost $1818 a month to run (plus hvac cooling, which is approx double - i.e.: $3.6k a month in electricity running costs, conservatively - using 15 cents per KwH assumptions).. and the vmc/amc boxes would consume 36 KW, which would cost $5400 per month (and double it with cooling costs so say around $10.8k/month in running costs).  After youve run them both for a year, the vmc/amc wouldve cost an extra $86k to run than the ct, ouch!)

-- Jez

[auto2nr1]

When do you think we can get some communication for the shareholders? It would be nice if Ken or PR would jump in and chat with us to answer any questions we have.

[crumbs]

They deal with eASIC. This does provide much more confidence than "an IC producer who uses TMSC", at least for me. Lame analogy: a meal baked a perfect oven is not to be guaranteed more delicious than a meal cooked by a professional chef cook.

That's actually a pretty good analogy,

eASIC is going to get preference from Global Foundries as well for being a large customer (Sorry this is how it works in the real world)

I hope Ken's a professional chef, 'coz he sure never cooked this sort of chips before   ASICs don't cook well in Easy-Bake Ovens

[zumzero]

Crumbs, what a weirdo. 

[Ytterbium]

Crumbs, what a weirdo. 

Click ignore - he feeds off attention.

[zumzero]

Done. Again!

[zumzero]

When do you think we can get some communication for the shareholders? It would be nice if Ken or PR would jump in and chat with us to answer any questions we have.

I'd certainly welcome an updated version of Vbs's spreadsheet.

[ffssixtynine]

When do you think we can get some communication for the shareholders? It would be nice if Ken or PR would jump in and chat with us to answer any questions we have.

PR is just a volunteer account Streets set up, all Q/A has to be Ken. He has a big list of questions from us/you to answer which can then be posted by him or PR.

re: Fab - VMC are dealing with eASIC here. You can be sure that's all part of the deal (not in the NRE fee though, obviously).

re: Delivery - KnC, HashFast and VMC are all now due to start delivering in November now as far as I know (VMC late November). KnC maybe slightly earlier?

re: Store, prices, and related stuff - this was all raised with Ken some time ago and he's gradually dealing with some aspects. The prices have changed quite a bit already. We'd like more changes overall. PM him privately to give your feedback but please per respectful. Posts on here are unlikely to be seen.

re: Share price - Due to the lack of dividends in the immediate future I would guess. There are still Klondikes waiting for their Avalon chips of course. Surprised at where we're at on Bitfunder given that 0.0025 is a guaranteed return and eASIC are (finally) confirmed but that's how it goes. At least the press have recognised VMC's offering now.

Ytterbium - now you're posting more sensible stuff

[matuszed]

When do you think we can get some communication for the shareholders? It would be nice if Ken or PR would jump in and chat with us to answer any questions we have.

PR is just a volunteer account Streets set up, all Q/A has to be Ken. He has a big list of questions from us/you to answer which can then be posted by him or PR.

re: Fab - VMC are dealing with eASIC here. You can be sure that's all part of the deal (not in the NRE fee though, obviously).

re: Delivery - KnC, HashFast and VMC are all now due to start delivering in November now as far as I know (VMC late November). KnC maybe slightly earlier?

re: Store, prices, and related stuff - this was all raised with Ken some time ago and he's gradually dealing with some aspects. The prices have changed quite a bit already. We'd like more changes overall. PM him privately to give your feedback but please per respectful. Posts on here are unlikely to be seen.

re: Share price - Due to the lack of dividends in the immediate future I would guess. There are still Klondikes waiting for their Avalon chips of course. Surprised at where we're at on Bitfunder given that 0.0025 is a guaranteed return and eASIC are (finally) confirmed but that's how it goes. At least the press have recognised VMC's offering now.

Ytterbium - now you're posting more sensible stuff

The difference between btct and bf is now almost 100%.  Id really like to see a clearing mechanism from ACTM for shares between the two exchanges to arb out the price difference and also as a failsafe if we lost one of the exchanges for unforseen reasons.  Id be willing to help with any aspects of it

[ffssixtynine]

The difference between btct and bf is now almost 100%.  Id really like to see a clearing mechanism from ACTM for shares between the two exchanges to arb out the price difference and also as a failsafe if we lost one of the exchanges for unforseen reasons.  Id be willing to help with any aspects of it

I actually raised this with both Ken and the board today. The issue is that even allowing a small limited amount of transfers could cause the BTCT price to fall both before and after, annoying BTCT users.

It could be tried with a small amount of shares at first (how much? min amount? random selection of people or first come first served?). Feedback from you and other shareholders?

[matuszed]

The difference between btct and bf is now almost 100%.  Id really like to see a clearing mechanism from ACTM for shares between the two exchanges to arb out the price difference and also as a failsafe if we lost one of the exchanges for unforseen reasons.  Id be willing to help with any aspects of it

I actually raised this with both Ken and the board today. The issue is that even allowing a small limited amount of transfers could cause the BTCT price to fall both before and after, annoying BTCT users.

It could be tried with a small amount of shares at first (how much? min amount? random selection of people or first come first served?). Feedback from you and other shareholders?

I just think for proper price discovery the shares should be easily fungible between the exchanges. I think once divs start rolling this will all become a moot point but we will get deeper books and more liquidity if people can play the arb.  It just seems like theres more btc chasing a smaller float on btct which causes actm to trade at a premium the market should move shares from bf to btct to make up for this imbalance but it lacks the mechanism currently

[Ytterbium]

When do you think we can get some communication for the shareholders? It would be nice if Ken or PR would jump in and chat with us to answer any questions we have.

re: Delivery - KnC, HashFast and VMC are all now due to start delivering in November now as far as I know (VMC late November). KnC maybe slightly earlier?

Ytterbium - now you're posting more sensible stuff

If you order a KnC now, it'll come in November.  The first orders in the queue are supposed to be shipped out before the end of this month.

[ffssixtynine]

I just think for proper price discovery the shares should be easily fungible between the exchanges. I think once divs start rolling this will all become a moot point but we will get deeper books and more liquidity if people can play the arb.  It just seems like theres more btc chasing a smaller float on btct which causes actm to trade at a premium the market should move shares from bf to btct to make up for this imbalance but it lacks the mechanism currently

Very true but I don't think this will change.

Going back to my post, should Ken try to facilitate a small amount of arb and under what guidelines (to prevent people doing a quick buy/sell - or should that even be a worry)?

[matuszed]

I just think for proper price discovery the shares should be easily fungible between the exchanges. I think once divs start rolling this will all become a moot point but we will get deeper books and more liquidity if people can play the arb.  It just seems like theres more btc chasing a smaller float on btct which causes actm to trade at a premium the market should move shares from bf to btct to make up for this imbalance but it lacks the mechanism currently

Very true but I don't think this will change.

Going back to my post, should Ken try to facilitate a small amount of arb and under what guidelines (to prevent people doing a quick buy/sell - or should that even be a worry)?

I don't think it should be a worry if people do the quick buy and sell.  If you give people that option youre going to see more bids on bitfunder and less people coming into this thread to complain about sharp price declines on bf.  Also it will provide more offers on btct where there seems to be excess demand at times.

Obviously ken cant do this all day so i say people can put in an order to switch anytime they want and they clear on like friday before the divs.  i bet the anticipation of a transfer mechanism alone will bring prices in line.

[Pale Phoenix]

re: Share price - Due to the lack of dividends in the immediate future I would guess. There are still Klondikes waiting for their Avalon chips of course. Surprised at where we're at on Bitfunder given that 0.0025 is a guaranteed return and eASIC are (finally) confirmed but that's how it goes. At least the press have recognised VMC's offering now.

This is somewhat surprising, but each of these exchanges have quirks that affect supply and demand. For instance, many of the shares on Bitfunder were purchased in the early tranches, so they have much more flexibility to sell at a profit. The market is really behaving as if there were two classes of stock at this point.

I'm happy for the opportunity to pick up  sub .0025 shares on BF, even though BTCT is my preferred exchange, but I'd like to see a transfer method (even with a small fee) put in place even if it pushed the price down a bit in the short term.

[auto2nr1]

Wouldn't it be better if we can just merge all the shares into one exchange? What if we were to move all the shares into BTCT? Or is it better to keep the shares on two different exchanges?

[matuszed]

Wouldn't it be better if we can just merge all the shares into one exchange? What if we were to move all the shares into BTCT? Or is it better to keep the shares on two different exchanges?

You cant just force people onto an exchange. Some people chose one for specific reasons and thats their choice.  Also that would be a clusterfuck to orchestrate