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Author Topic: [XPM] [ANN] Primecoin High Performance | HP14 released!  (Read 388227 times)
paulthetafy
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August 01, 2013, 04:33:27 PM
 #1461

Okay I'm looking at the 5-chains/m and chain/d stats in debug.log.  I can tweak my settings to either get higher 5-chains values OR higher chain/d values.  So which should I be looking at, i.e. which is it better to have higher?

The chains/day estimate is an upcoming feature added by Sunny King. It's a probabilistic model that is supposed to give a more realistic measure of the actual chain finding performance. Right now it's not producing fully accurate estimates. On testnet the estimate was at least 12% higher than observed rate. Assuming that the model is correct, you can still use for comparative purposes including tuning the parameters. There were a few issues with the model earlier but I've been working with Sunny to fix them.

In short, chains/day should be the best performance metric so far.
That's very interesting.  As I said, tweaking the sievesize/percent/roundpercent I have settings that result in higher 5-chains values but lower chains/d and vice versa, so something doesn't seem quite right there - you would expect them to both rise / fall wouldn't you? 
Also why is it a decimal value (my values are in the 0.5-2.0 range)?

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mikaelh
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August 01, 2013, 05:16:38 PM
 #1462

Okay I'm looking at the 5-chains/m and chain/d stats in debug.log.  I can tweak my settings to either get higher 5-chains values OR higher chain/d values.  So which should I be looking at, i.e. which is it better to have higher?

The chains/day estimate is an upcoming feature added by Sunny King. It's a probabilistic model that is supposed to give a more realistic measure of the actual chain finding performance. Right now it's not producing fully accurate estimates. On testnet the estimate was at least 12% higher than observed rate. Assuming that the model is correct, you can still use for comparative purposes including tuning the parameters. There were a few issues with the model earlier but I've been working with Sunny to fix them.

In short, chains/day should be the best performance metric so far.
That's very interesting.  As I said, tweaking the sievesize/percent/roundpercent I have settings that result in higher 5-chains values but lower chains/d and vice versa, so something doesn't seem quite right there - you would expect them to both rise / fall wouldn't you? 
Also why is it a decimal value (my values are in the 0.5-2.0 range)?

The problem with primes/sec and 5-chains/h is that they're not actually measuring anything useful as far as solo mining is concerned. They are more like coincidental byproducts of the mining process. Those byproducts don't really mean anything by themselves (unless you're doing pooled mining at ypool.net). You can quite easily find lots of primes/sec or 5-chains/h if you want to but solo miners should only be concerned with improving the chances to find actual blocks. That's why I performed numerous tests on testnet to test the default parameters of the client. By now it is pretty commonly known that primes/sec does not directly correlate with the block rate and I have also seen some evidence that a higher 5-chains/h does not result in more blocks.

The key idea behind the chains/day model is to estimate the probability that a candidate produces a full-length prime chain and then multiply that probability with the number of tests that are performed. As it turns out, all 3 tuning parameters supported by my client also influence this probability. They also effect the speed at which the candidates are produced and how fast they can be tested. Ideally you want to balance those settings out so that you expect to find more blocks. For example, if you adjust the settings so that the probability would be increased by 50% while the testing speed would go down by 10%, you will still get more blocks in the end. It doesn't really matter if you're finding 20% less 5-chains/h.

The reason why chains/day is a decimal number is because it's trying to represent the expected number of full-length qualifying chains that you would find in a day (i.e. chains that will result in a block if they also meet the fractional difficulty). That number is typically very low when solo mining with the current difficulty on mainnet.
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August 01, 2013, 05:26:27 PM
 #1463

Is there some regression in the latest version? I realize that the rate of finding primes is not the only thing to consider.

Here is some data from a machine running a clone of CVS from a few hours ago today (
"version" : "v0.1.1xpm-93-g0751bbd-beta-hp8" )

2013-08-01 17:01:15 primemeter   7875206 prime/h 162190130 test/h  120 5-chains/h 0.178356 chain/d
2013-08-01 17:02:15 primemeter   7855064 prime/h 162149863 test/h  240 5-chains/h 0.179119 chain/d
2013-08-01 17:03:15 primemeter   7809919 prime/h 161926985 test/h  300 5-chains/h 0.177141 chain/d
2013-08-01 17:04:15 primemeter   7877955 prime/h 162077455 test/h  300 5-chains/h 0.177752 chain/d

And data from hp8 ("version" : "v0.1.1.0-unk-beta-hp8")

2013-08-01 17:06:52 primemeter  11272017 prime/h  96159859 test/h       240 5-chains/h
2013-08-01 17:07:52 primemeter  11382319 prime/h  97891766 test/h       240 5-chains/h
2013-08-01 17:08:52 primemeter  11387602 prime/h  97631808 test/h       600 5-chains/h
2013-08-01 17:09:52 primemeter  11423666 prime/h  97832785 test/h       420 5-chains/h

More tests are being run per hour which I suppose is a good thing. The sievesize remained the same.

--Lyddite

- Lyddite -
paulthetafy
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August 01, 2013, 05:35:57 PM
 #1464

Okay I'm looking at the 5-chains/m and chain/d stats in debug.log.  I can tweak my settings to either get higher 5-chains values OR higher chain/d values.  So which should I be looking at, i.e. which is it better to have higher?

The chains/day estimate is an upcoming feature added by Sunny King. It's a probabilistic model that is supposed to give a more realistic measure of the actual chain finding performance. Right now it's not producing fully accurate estimates. On testnet the estimate was at least 12% higher than observed rate. Assuming that the model is correct, you can still use for comparative purposes including tuning the parameters. There were a few issues with the model earlier but I've been working with Sunny to fix them.

In short, chains/day should be the best performance metric so far.
That's very interesting.  As I said, tweaking the sievesize/percent/roundpercent I have settings that result in higher 5-chains values but lower chains/d and vice versa, so something doesn't seem quite right there - you would expect them to both rise / fall wouldn't you? 
Also why is it a decimal value (my values are in the 0.5-2.0 range)?

The problem with primes/sec and 5-chains/h is that they're not actually measuring anything useful as far as solo mining is concerned. They are more like coincidental byproducts of the mining process. Those byproducts don't really mean anything by themselves (unless you're doing pooled mining at ypool.net). You can quite easily find lots of primes/sec or 5-chains/h if you want to but solo miners should only be concerned with improving the chances to find actual blocks. That's why I performed numerous tests on testnet to test the default parameters of the client. By now it is pretty commonly known that primes/sec does not directly correlate with the block rate and I have also seen some evidence that a higher 5-chains/h does not result in more blocks.

The key idea behind the chains/day model is to estimate the probability that a candidate produces a full-length prime chain and then multiply that probability with the number of tests that are performed. As it turns out, all 3 tuning parameters supported by my client also influence this probability. They also effect the speed at which the candidates are produced and how fast they can be tested. Ideally you want to balance those settings out so that you expect to find more blocks. For example, if you adjust the settings so that the probability would be increased by 50% while the testing speed would go down by 10%, you will still get more blocks in the end. It doesn't really matter if you're finding 20% less 5-chains/h.

The reason why chains/day is a decimal number is because it's trying to represent the expected number of full-length qualifying chains that you would find in a day (i.e. chains that will result in a block if they also meet the fractional difficulty). That number is typically very low when solo mining with the current difficulty on mainnet.
Thanks for the explanation mikael.  I think I've managed to find optimum values now - or at least values that work well for me - and they are different to the defaults.

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August 01, 2013, 05:54:05 PM
 #1465

Is there some regression in the latest version? I realize that the rate of finding primes is not the only thing to consider.

Here is some data from a machine running a clone of CVS from a few hours ago today (
"version" : "v0.1.1xpm-93-g0751bbd-beta-hp8" )

2013-08-01 17:01:15 primemeter   7875206 prime/h 162190130 test/h  120 5-chains/h 0.178356 chain/d
2013-08-01 17:02:15 primemeter   7855064 prime/h 162149863 test/h  240 5-chains/h 0.179119 chain/d
2013-08-01 17:03:15 primemeter   7809919 prime/h 161926985 test/h  300 5-chains/h 0.177141 chain/d
2013-08-01 17:04:15 primemeter   7877955 prime/h 162077455 test/h  300 5-chains/h 0.177752 chain/d

And data from hp8 ("version" : "v0.1.1.0-unk-beta-hp8")

2013-08-01 17:06:52 primemeter  11272017 prime/h  96159859 test/h       240 5-chains/h
2013-08-01 17:07:52 primemeter  11382319 prime/h  97891766 test/h       240 5-chains/h
2013-08-01 17:08:52 primemeter  11387602 prime/h  97631808 test/h       600 5-chains/h
2013-08-01 17:09:52 primemeter  11423666 prime/h  97832785 test/h       420 5-chains/h

More tests are being run per hour which I suppose is a good thing. The sievesize remained the same.

--Lyddite

What you're seeing is mostly caused by this commit made by Sunny:
https://github.com/primecoin/primecoin/commit/2f6545476673f6438df41ca190ca6867a730c77b

That removes some redundant chain tests. Essentially it doesn't try to test for a Cunningham chain of the second kind if the candidate should only result in a chain of the first kind. I tested that block rate goes up by about 30% on testnet. I also saw that primes/sec dropped and that 5-chains/h dropped on mainnet. But again it's just less byproducts that don't matter.
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August 01, 2013, 08:40:59 PM
 #1466

My best profit from 1 month = 0 XPM  Grin

Being retard is not something you should be proud of
My best profit from 1 month = 0 XPM  Grin

You got what you deserve  Cool

My best profit from 1 month = 0 XPM  Grin
Damn dude!  My Timex Sinclair TS1000 has found 3 blocks already!  You really suck!

No man. I will call you what is suck!!! Suck is when you found from first day coin that song good like XPM. And you start mining it, make 200 XPM = $200-300 just for a week, next week no 1 confirmation and next week all steal and called orphanes... I had exp with dozen more coins and no one SCAM me like this... But I continue to see what will happen and what, just 2 more weeks no 1 block found. It's not just bad luck, it's VERY SUCK COIN.

paulthetafy
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August 01, 2013, 08:53:11 PM
 #1467

My best profit from 1 month = 0 XPM  Grin

Being retard is not something you should be proud of
My best profit from 1 month = 0 XPM  Grin

You got what you deserve  Cool

My best profit from 1 month = 0 XPM  Grin
Damn dude!  My Timex Sinclair TS1000 has found 3 blocks already!  You really suck!

No man. I will call you what is suck!!! Suck is when you found from first day coin that song good like XPM. And you start mining it, make 200 XPM = $200-300 just for a week, next week no 1 confirmation and next week all steal and called orphanes... I had exp with dozen more coins and no one SCAM me like this... But I continue to see what will happen and what, just 2 more weeks no 1 block found. It's not just bad luck, it's VERY SUCK COIN.
Jees man you are the ONLY person complaining about this.  Nobody else is having trouble mining this coin.  Clearly, you have issues

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August 01, 2013, 08:57:19 PM
 #1468

It's can't be my faul, coz I use recomended software from owner. So it's steal my ~200 XPM. It's all...

He or who think it's not fair, can correct this in any time with sending me any compensation here: AYt9xqb8vCDEQoL6W1hKxJmLwwQ6BvjFA6

Thanks in advance!

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August 01, 2013, 09:06:32 PM
 #1469

I've updated my awk command to include the new chains/day statistic:

Code:
grep primemeter ~/.primecoin/debug.log | awk '{s1+=$4;s2+=$6;s3+=$8;s4+=$10} END {printf"%10s: %10d\n%10s: %10d\n%10s: %10d\n%10s: %10.5f\n","Prime/h",s1/NR,"Test/h",s2/NR,"5-Chain/h",s3/NR,"Chains/day",s4/NR}'

I apologize for the fact that it's an abominable one-liner.
If you don't know what grep or awk are, this probably isn't for you.

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August 01, 2013, 09:10:21 PM
 #1470

It's can't be my faul, coz I use recomended software from owner. So it's steal my ~200 XPM. It's all...

He or who think it's not fair, can correct this in any time with sending me any compensation here: AYt9xqb8vCDEQoL6W1hKxJmLwwQ6BvjFA6

Thanks in advance!

There is never a guarantee that you will get a block. Mining is mostly luck and you can get a block at any time on any computer. At the same time you can be really unlucky and not get any blocks. I started mining and in the first few days I didn't get anything. I suddenly got a block each day for three days on my desktop and haven't gotten any blocks on it in the last week. Nobody is at fault here - how is it a scam if you don't get any blocks? It all comes down to how lucky or unlucky you are - if you are lucky you can get several blocks a day on a bottom of the line cpu and if you are unlucky you could end  up getting nothing for over a month. It just sounds like you have either been unlucky or made a small mistake in your configuration somewhere along the way. We all could get mad if we aren't getting blocks but it doesn't do anything for us - no matter how mad we get it doesn't change that we are all playing a game of chance by mining and nobody has a guaranteed return even if they mine a block.

Don't just trade, get paid to Atomic⚛Trade !!!
Disclaimer: I am a noob. Assume I know nothing until proven otherwise.
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August 01, 2013, 09:48:58 PM
 #1471

Mining is a little bit more than luck


Resistance is futile. Embrace cryptocurrencies.
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August 01, 2013, 09:52:51 PM
 #1472

The miner did wonders  Wink

Kalshnikov
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August 01, 2013, 09:53:15 PM
 #1473

Mining is a little bit more than luck



testnet mode Smiley
zax983
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August 01, 2013, 10:12:44 PM
 #1474

Yes, my blocks was showed like transactions, but after week they gone... They was true blocks mined from me. When it's was so easy and dif was low. If the suck soft was up to date, than for sure I will find real blocks, too. But I'm sure coz my blocks was real too. I found just 1-2 blocks per day, when price was more from 16 XPM for block. And where are they now and why I wasting my time and my PC power for nothing?!

And again, why no one other coin do same crap? I have orphans with other coins, but it was not so much and it was not 100% and all the time... I had and problem with other coin that have not up to date client, but it not steal my found blocks !!!

So, I go buy 1 XPM and send to me, it's come successful. It's mean my client is up to date, right? Than what is the fucking problem with XPM system?!?!?!?!?

blackboy
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August 01, 2013, 10:14:29 PM
 #1475

Mining is a little bit more than luck



testnet mode Smiley

Nope, is for real. About 2.2M PPS

Resistance is futile. Embrace cryptocurrencies.
zax983
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August 01, 2013, 10:18:21 PM
 #1476

What proc or maybe what soft or maybe just what you use : ]

Btw, how same proc can make 50 times more with other soft (new pool soft I mean). Why no one make any good soft for solo?!

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August 01, 2013, 10:20:22 PM
 #1477

No tricks. 500 8-core opteron servers running mikhaels hp8.
I simply took the best scripts from this thread and used some recommendations from members.

Resistance is futile. Embrace cryptocurrencies.
zax983
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August 01, 2013, 10:23:01 PM
 #1478

Anyway, it's late for my proc... It's poor for current dif...

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August 01, 2013, 10:42:36 PM
 #1479

No tricks. 500 8-core opteron servers running mikhaels hp8.
I simply took the best scripts from this thread and used some recommendations from members.

500!

Self funded? Or do you work in a data centre Roll Eyes ?
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August 01, 2013, 10:43:29 PM
 #1480

No tricks. 500 8-core opteron servers running mikhaels hp8.
I simply took the best scripts from this thread and used some recommendations from members.

Do you know how much percentage of the network are you representing? 10%?

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