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Author Topic: Merit & new rank requirements  (Read 143417 times)
TheQuin
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February 09, 2018, 12:06:03 PM
 #2561

So i assume the answer sadly is no...... Was just enough to freeze the ranks.

You assume incorrectly. As I already said the answer is yes. One of the purposes of the system is to prevent spammers ranking up but not those that deserve to, so it is working on that level.

For that beside there was no need to come up with a bad idea poorly executed.

Another purpose is to highlight content worth reading and on a personal level I have found using the Recent merits page has led me to all sorts of great threads that normally would have been buried in all the noise. The system is a great idea that has been executed well. It's early to see its full effects, but so far the results have been very positive.

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Meraki
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February 09, 2018, 12:08:34 PM
 #2562

is there any actual evidence that the system works for the purpose that was created at this point?  Roll Eyes

Yes, the number of spammers complaining they'll never be able to rank.


So i assume the answer sadly is no.

For that beside there was no need to come up with a bad idea poorly executed. Was just enough to freeze the ranks.

Youre mistaken sir, merit system is working as it supposed to be, because it helps people be more concise in what their posting about. And it also dramatically reduce shitposters as well  as account farmers because they wont get anything with half assed post.
Lastly their are some cases alt accounts being detected because they can track the merit given massively to unworthy post.

Surely all the new system does is create an external marketplace for selling "Merit" (i.e. Fiverr etc)?

Dont need to create anymore section. Even though theymos stated that merit selling is not that big issue, it is still unethical to buy merit to others. Merits must be earned not bought.

Edit: fixed typos
Harsh_Patel
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February 09, 2018, 12:19:19 PM
 #2563

I think merit system will take a long time to come into effect as current merit generation is going on and Admins will need time to generate more merit to give it to the users, who actually deserve it.

One Suggestion:

As merit is the way to rank the post for the quality. Why don't you guys put in higher in the page. I mean give it preference, when user sees it.


I am Member waiting for promotion to the Full Member and I think Merit is worth what is stand for. I can wait for the promotion if it helps the community grow in the good way.

I am sorry for my wrong doings.

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bitgov
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February 09, 2018, 12:31:05 PM
 #2564

Merit system for new users looks like unfair. However, there is no doubt that the long run will bring positive results.

I would like to know what do you think about that:

Ok!
Those who give me merits will PM the pictures and video ))

 
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pvk444
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February 09, 2018, 12:40:33 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1)
 #2565

Would you also be happy if all the signature campaigns are removed from the forum ? That will make all the merits and ranks useless than right.

Radical solution lol, most users would be done using this forum.

Nonsense.   Five years ago there were no signature campaigns, and bitcoin was worth a few dollars.  This forum thrived back then.

I'm on here only since a few months, and only very recentely realized that one can make money with signatures. (As a matter of fact, my signature does not make me any money, as that's not how that specific coin works. I use it out of conviction). Thus, until recently, I only regarded the ranks as a measure of board "seniority" and by implication as a measure of opinion influence.

TBH, I have not looked at how the revenue from signatures work, but I can see now that people simply want to increase rank to achieve a higher income, rather than because they are interested in the discussions and insights per se.

I presume (hope) there are others like me, who are less interested in the monetary rewards than in the intellectual rewards from participating. Thus, perhaps decoupling the rank and the merit system, and only use the merit system to have influence on the monetary benefits, maybe that would be cleaner in term of incentives? It would certainly work for me.
osipovis
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February 09, 2018, 01:14:52 PM
 #2566

I presume (hope) there are others like me, who are less interested in the monetary rewards than in the intellectual rewards from participating. Thus, perhaps decoupling the rank and the merit system, and only use the merit system to have influence on the monetary benefits, maybe that would be cleaner in term of incentives? It would certainly work for me.

We need more members to think like this. Currently, the majority sees their interests before that of this forum.
amerrigan
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February 09, 2018, 02:14:01 PM
 #2567

I think merit system will take a long time to come into effect as current merit generation is going on and Admins will need time to generate more merit to give it to the users, who actually deserve it.

One Suggestion:

As merit is the way to rank the post for the quality. Why don't you guys put in higher in the page. I mean give it preference, when user sees it.


I am Member waiting for promotion to the Full Member and I think Merit is worth what is stand for. I can wait for the promotion if it helps the community grow in the good way.

Yup me too, I've been a lurker on these forums for years only recently got back into crypto (TBH it was the Christmas price rises). I've just hit the "old" threshold today to become a "member" and wondered why I hadn't ranked up yet.

Now I know
izanagi narukami
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February 09, 2018, 02:20:36 PM
 #2568

is there any actual evidence that the system works for the purpose that was created at this point?  Roll Eyes

Yes, the number of spammers complaining they'll never be able to rank.


For lucky spammer they are happy for this moment.
(Lucky spammer : a spammer who created many alt account before merit implementation )

After they have spent out their smerit, I'm sure merit implementation will work !

Smiley
mrelich
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February 09, 2018, 02:27:00 PM
Last edit: February 09, 2018, 02:41:18 PM by mrelich
 #2569

I presume (hope) there are others like me, who are less interested in the monetary rewards than in the intellectual rewards from participating. Thus, perhaps decoupling the rank and the merit system, and only use the merit system to have influence on the monetary benefits, maybe that would be cleaner in term of incentives? It would certainly work for me.

I don't agree. Rank of the member should mean his "seniority" not only by number of posts, but also by quality of posts. I think that nobody wants Hero members that are posting shitposts in this forum. So i like the idea that members should qualify for a higher rank only if they post something meaningful.  If you are more interested in intellectual benefits, then there is no need for the rank upgrade anyway..

The other thing is that it's currently quite difficult to get some merits. It looks like a very long journey to upgrade from Member to a Full Member for example, even for users  that are posting quality posts. I hope this will get better once there are more sMerits available from Merit sources.
amerrigan
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February 09, 2018, 02:33:56 PM
 #2570

I presume (hope) there are others like me, who are less interested in the monetary rewards than in the intellectual rewards from participating. Thus, perhaps decoupling the rank and the merit system, and only use the merit system to have influence on the monetary benefits, maybe that would be cleaner in term of incentives? It would certainly work for me.

I don't agree. Rank of the member should mean his "seniority" not only by number of posts, but also by quality of posts. I think that nobody wants Hero members that are posting shitposts in this forum. So i like the idea that members should qualify for a higher rank only if they post something meaningful.  If you are more interested in intellectual benefits, then there is no need for the rank upgrade anyway..

The other thing is that currently it's quote difficult to get some merits. It looks like a very long journey to upgrade from Member to Full Member for example, even for users  that are posting quality posts. I hope this will get better once there are more sMerits available from Merit sources.

Isn't this just another form of elitism though? Only those with sufficient rank can decide on who can progress through the system.

Isn't it is also far too easy for some of these "shitpost heros" to level up their own secondary/multiple accounts and not use the system as intended.

We need a rank Hard-fork!

cryptocommoner
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February 09, 2018, 02:42:59 PM
 #2571

I presume (hope) there are others like me, who are less interested in the monetary rewards than in the intellectual rewards from participating. Thus, perhaps decoupling the rank and the merit system, and only use the merit system to have influence on the monetary benefits, maybe that would be cleaner in term of incentives? It would certainly work for me.

I don't agree. Rank of the member should mean his "seniority" not only by number of posts, but also by quality of posts. I think that nobody wants Hero members that are posting shitposts in this forum. So i like the idea that members should qualify for a higher rank only if they post something meaningful.  If you are more interested in intellectual benefits, then there is no need for the rank upgrade anyway..

The other thing is that currently it's quote difficult to get some merits. It looks like a very long journey to upgrade from Member to Full Member for example, even for users  that are posting quality posts. I hope this will get better once there are more sMerits available from Merit sources.

Isn't this just another form of elitism though? Only those with sufficient rank can decide on who can progress through the system.

Isn't it is also far too easy for some of these "shitpost heros" to level up their own secondary/multiple accounts and not use the system as intended.

We need a rank Hard-fork!



I don't think it is necessarily a form of elitism.  No system is perfect, but they are attempting to decrease those 'shitpost heros' from ever making it to the higher ranks.  They can do nothing about those that were already higher ranks to begin with as that would also be unfair to them. 

You can send 1 sMerit for every 2 that you receive.  I have used up my 1 unfortunately, but I hope to gain more with more quality posts that I put on this board with time.  It's a slow process yes, but one that has to be fully-accepted before it can really change the way things are done here.
pvk444
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February 09, 2018, 02:51:37 PM
 #2572

I presume (hope) there are others like me, who are less interested in the monetary rewards than in the intellectual rewards from participating. Thus, perhaps decoupling the rank and the merit system, and only use the merit system to have influence on the monetary benefits, maybe that would be cleaner in term of incentives? It would certainly work for me.

I don't agree. Rank of the member should mean his "seniority" not only by number of posts, but also by quality of posts. I think that nobody wants Hero members that are posting shitposts in this forum. So i like the idea that members should qualify for a higher rank only if they post something meaningful.  If you are more interested in intellectual benefits, then there is no need for the rank upgrade anyway..

The other thing is that currently it's quote difficult to get some merits. It looks like a very long journey to upgrade from Member to Full Member for example, even for users  that are posting quality posts. I hope this will get better once there are more sMerits available from Merit sources.

Yes. You are right that rank should reflect some form of quality as well.

However, if somebody just want's to be active on the board and does not care about gaining any monetary benefits, then they already have the inherent desire and thus inherent incentive to engage in higher quality discussions and would naturally avoid spamming the forums. If merits (for the purposes of rewards from signatures) are decoupled from ranks, then the ranks themselves hold no value for those who are interested in monetary gains, but remain an nice recognition for all others. Since there would be no other rewards associated with rank than a personal satisfaction and gratification, simple spamming would be just a waste of time.

On the other-hand for those who are primarily interested in using this as a source of income, and thus for those whose incentives can get misaligned with posting quality, merit system can provide the external "encouragement" to focus on quality and avoid spamming.

So, I don't think decoupling leads to a deterioration in quality. Keeping them coupled, however, could potentially stifle more active participation. Psychology and social recognition are strong forces here.
Aneuk cabang
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February 09, 2018, 03:27:50 PM
 #2573

In addition to activity, everyone now has a merit score, and you need both a certain activity level and a certain merit score in order to reach higher member ranks. The required scores are:

RankRequired activityRequired merit
Brand new00
Newbie10
Jr Member300
Member6010
Full Member120100
Sr. Member240250
Hero Member480500
LegendaryRandom in the range 775-10301000

You get merit points when someone sends you some for one of your posts. Additionally, when someone sends you merit points, half of those points can be sent by you to other people.

Certain users are designated as "merit sources". They can create new merit out of nothing, up to a limited number per month (which differs per source). I will not be posting a definitive list of merit sources (so that people don't bug them too much), though you'll soon figure out who they are if you pay attention.

There is currently no such thing as a "demerit". I'm hoping that the positive merits alone will be fine. I could add demerits pretty easily later on if necessary, though.

I'm hoping that this system will increase post quality by:
 - Forcing people to post high-quality stuff in order to rank up. If you just post garbage, you will never get even 1 merit point, and you will therefore never be able to put links in your signature, etc.
 - Highlighting good posts with the "Merited by" line.

While we will not be directly moderating this, I encourage people to give merit to posts that are objectively high-quality, not just posts that you agree with.

Do not beg for merit excessively.

Useful infographics

Forum users have helpfully created some infographics to explain the merit system:
paxmao's infographic
ibminer's infographic
8Habits's infographic
JetSet11's infographic
zentdex's infographic
alia_armelle's infographic

If you want to be a merit source:

 1. Be a somewhat established member.
 2. Collect TEN posts written in the last couple of months by other people that have not received nearly enough merit for how good they are, and post quotes for them all in a new Meta thread. The point of this is to demonstrate your ability to give out merit usefully.
 3. We will take a look at your history and maybe make you a source.

I am especially eager to have merit sources in sub-communities such as the local sections.

Trivia:

For current members, your initial merit score is equal to the minimum required to your rank. Of that, a certain amount (less than the usual half) is spendable. The spendable amount was calculated based on your current rank and the number of activity points you earned in the last year. A Legendary member who hasn't posted in the last year would still be Legendary, but would not have any spendable merit.

If someone sends you 1 merit, the 0.5 sMerit is not wasted; it is just not shown until you get another merit point.

There are stats here, and you can find someone's merit summary by clicking the "merit" link on their profile.
Is there no other way to get merits? i guess it little difficult. We have tons of posts a day, some of them have good or high quality posts, but how can we expect user with merits source to read it and not past it? maybe we can tag them ?? hehe
amerrigan
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February 09, 2018, 03:34:42 PM
 #2574

Is there a limit on the number of merits than can be sent in one hit?
TheQuin
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February 09, 2018, 04:20:09 PM
 #2575

Is there a limit on the number of merits than can be sent in one hit?

Yes, 50. It's also the limit that can be sent to the same person in one month.

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February 09, 2018, 05:44:37 PM
 #2576

OK Op, thanks for those explanations !  Wink
Gleb Gamow
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February 09, 2018, 06:17:30 PM
 #2577

I dunno about other people but I've used my smerit

If you don't like how I use my smerit you can coin yourselves Smiley

Hey, Crest, I +2 sM on one of your posts as thanks for the unsolicited positive on the Trust thingy.

I'm now offering +2 sM in soliciting a Reuben Sandwich with extra sauerkraut on marble rye.
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February 09, 2018, 06:23:44 PM
Merited by Gleb Gamow (1)
 #2578

Without coming up with a Merit Ponzi scheme I'll doubt I'll be ranking up anytime soon.
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February 09, 2018, 07:03:38 PM
 #2579

Is there a limit on the number of merits than can be sent in one hit?

Yes, 50. It's also the limit that can be sent to the same person in one month.
Sending merits to the same person seems like supporting of a multiply account. If I would be a moderator such case would awake a lot of doubts and I would put a red trust on both.
Without coming up with a Merit Ponzi scheme I'll doubt I'll be ranking up anytime soon.
I am in the same position, man. There are a lot of users like us, unluckys.
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February 09, 2018, 07:11:11 PM
 #2580

Hello everyone  Cheesy
I do read some massages and I found out the following:
Why questioning the personnel who have control in this forum.?
Questioning falls in two different stands
1. Agree &
2. Disagree

I think if the author of merit system will ask the community to give/share some ideas then that is the right time to discuss about.
Also I believed that if the personnel here like lauda, john (john), mprep, and more will discuss this in the way of not thrusting theymos in his terms and rules, then everyone can argue. But if they are silent not questioning the new system then there is no sense to discuss.
Of course I did not close my mind that my seniors just want to clarify there understanding on merit system.

In my opinion merit is VERY GOOD here in this bitcointalk forum.
I am new. Hope I will be like my seniors 3 years from now.  Grin

Best wishes to all...  Cheesy
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