NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[abuelau]

Nxt Alerter now supports Alias and Arbitrary Messages

The Nxt Alerter already sent thousands of messages to our users, every time a monitored account has a transaction or a block is found.

The system can now send alerts every time an Alias Operation is performed or an Arbitrary Message is sent/received. This means you get Arbitrary Messages right in your email inbox, anywhere you are and without having to check your Nxt client.

This feature is enabled for all existing users. If you are not using the Nxt Alerter yet, head over to http://www.mynxt.info and start monitoring your Nxt accounts.

[nexern]

I was just looking at the Ethereum thread, and was wondering: couldn't NXT technically implement what Ethereum is trying to do in a parallel blockchain that allows turing-complete code to execute? IMO Ethereum is interesting, but isn't particularly innovative (not in the way transparent forging is).

A few advantages I see if this is possible within the NXT ecosystem:
1) NXT is already established. No need for massive development of the network, and thus no need for an expensive, over-complicated IPO to get it off the ground.
2) These scripts can interact with other aspects of the NXT ecosystem, which is admittedly much larger in scope than Ethereum will ever be. For example, you can send 0.00001 NXT to "Asset Merchant Rating" script, and you can rate a merchant you had a pleasant/negative experience with, and the program will keep track of it on the parallel blockchain without the bloat that may come if we used AM for this purpose.
3) Take advantage of all the idling CPU power in most nodes. Since NXT client itself does not require much resources to run, perhaps this will give all the miners from PoW-world something to focus on.
4) Provide an increase fees for people willing to participate in the parallel blockchain. People with RPi's can just stick to basic forging, while those running nodes on powerful PC's can additionally use their CPU power to run these programs.
5) NXT has already set the precedent for decentralized development (something I'm rather proud of, and I have to hand it to BCNext, that was a very smart decision), so people making a decentralized effort to create decentralized programs fits the theme rather well.

What's left is to figure out how to integrate a PoW system within a PoS system. But since c-f-b is already working on that, I assume it can be done.

sure, nxt will have the first DNA[1] latest end next month. while others talking we are coding.
DNA can also communicate with other DNA's via DNL[2], asking for additional functions and can
access external resources on demand while sandboxed and configurable to it's own special needs.
AM can be used as a direct DNA storage if the size fit's or chunk itself and recombine if
larger or even running on trusted nodes as a monolithical, remote executable code block.
client can scan AM for DNA resources or fetch the DNA directory from nodes via DNS[3] call
to get the latest jump and recombination list. DNAs can handle also thier own account, polling
the transactions and balance to verify service payments on activation.

[1] decentralized nxt agent
[2] decentralized nxt logic   (repository of pure function fragments, e.g api repo to access online quotes)
[3] decentralized nxt services

[CIYAM]

In regards to the "voting system" I would just once again like to state that the idea of "one person one vote" is practically *impossible* unless we want to rely on governments and centralised services (something I'm pretty sure the majority here do not want to do).

So I think rather than keeping on trying to get "one person one vote" we should just abandon that idea altogether and move on (as has been stated before 1 vote per person doesn't necessarily achieve anything good anyway as most people are easily swayed and not very smart).

I think perhaps what should be tried is various different approaches ranging from 1 vote per NXT to 1 vote per account with or without fees and perhaps different ways of deciding eligibility of accounts (such as only accounts older then x blocks or maybe only accounts that were created within the last x blocks).

What would probably be neat is to set up up meta-voting system that lets you create a "ballot" according to parameters so that there is no fixed voting mechanism but instead one that is effectively defined by a set of rules.

[smartwart]

Hey, it's been quiet for some time in here... Let's bring the voting discussion back!

So do we have any practical ideas of reliable voting at all?

The whitepaper is very vague about it, no technical details about how this magical democracy will happen.

ahh Voting!
one of my favorite discussions ;-)

Currently read many good aspects here!
I think we need to consider most of them in beta Client.
More and more it becomes clear there is not THE ONE way for VS.
But there are different poll-categories, e.g "assets polls" is different category as "best button-color polls".

The poll initiator should be able to choose boundary conditions depending on poll-topic.
The poll boundary conditions need to be transparent during run time.
To be more constructive lets try to collect some "Voting Models":

general options:

- min. permitted Account Deposit

- min. permitted Account age (Blocks)

- poll duration (Blocks)

- Voting Fee


Voting Models:

+ 1 NXT        ==   1 Vote  { vote = Func(accountBalance) }

+ 1 NXT        ==   x Vote  { x = Func(accountBalance) =  polynom * accountBalance}

+ 1 Account  ==  1 Vote   { vote = Func(accountBalance) =  0.5 * accountBalance}

+ 1 Account  ==  1 Vote   { Jcsarokrin Biometric Authenification: http://juliansarokin.com/100-years-the-future-of-government/}

+ coolmist:  {votingweight = ( 1 / similarity ) ^ (4/3) * (accountbalance)^(1/3) * (accountage)^2 (timesvoted)^(3/2)}


no claim to completeness!


We need to discuss selection options too:
[true]    [false]    [abstention]
I think [abstention] provides an important information too.
E.g. a high count of [abstention] tells the poll creator "interesting question buddy, but not this way!!!" ...

It makes sense to collect all ideas to keep the overview.
Please extent the "general options" and "voting models" and "selection options" ideas!!!

[BitcoinForumator]

Btw, where is Come-from-Beyond?

Haven't seen him a while. To be honest he shouldn't be sleeping, let alone be missing for days.

[BitcoinForumator]

Btw, where is Come-from-Beyond?

Haven't seen him a while. To be honest he shouldn't be sleeping, let alone be missing for days.

This is my take... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg4735849#msg4735849   

Must be...coz this is strange.

[Uniqueorn]

Focusing more on the green angle of NXT.


As everyone worthy of attention knows: global warming is a increasingly serious issue on this relatively small planet of ours and so everyone is looking for energy efficiency.
As most of us NXTers already know: NXT requires almost zero energy compared to altcoins. At first this might not seem like a big deal because "How much could the other altcoins really consume anyway?" To which the sad truth is: A LOT. A LOT even in the global perspective.
There are some math here: www.bitcarbon.org which shows just how ridiculous Bitcoin mining and all mining coins really is.
They are like the coal/oil of cryptocurrencies while we are the future solar/fusion powered clean crypto.

This is a ever increasing big issue in a world that is desperately looking for ways to save power.
How can Bitcoin/Anycoin be the future of economics if it relies on 19th century like primitive technology that ruins our planet? It can't.

We should really start pushing this angle and perhaps even donate to some green projects to really make our mark as the environmentally friendly futuristic currency.

Should we make a video about this? I think so. Where we outline just how ridiculous the energy consumption of the coins are compared to NXT.
Someone over at nextcoin.org calculated that NXT is ~2000 times as energy and cost efficient as Bitcoin. That is HUGE

[cryptolawyer]

Hi folks. I live in New York, and can be at the April conference.

Nice. Let me guess: You need some NXT for this? SCNR...

No, I don't.

One of my colleagues is speaking on a panel, and my firm has a number of conference passes for other attorneys to attend.

I'm out on vacation until the 28th, but am skimming this thread and over at nextcoin.org in the meantime, and would be happy to chat with anyone after that to see if I can help out.

[ImmortAlex]

Btw, where is Come-from-Beyond?

Where is BCNext! We keep silent about votings for many pages! Give us first letter NOW!

[bitcoinpaul]

Focusing more on the green angle of NXT.

Please focus on energy conservation (which should be dictated by common logic) WITHOUT building the argument around Global Warming.

Maybe this is a wise recommendation, since there are so many people who don't believe in global warming and so many people who believe in global warming. This shouldn't get in our way.

[rickyjames]

Focusing more on the green angle of NXT.

Please focus on energy conservation (which should be dictated by common logic) WITHOUT building the argument around Global Warming.

I would even say energy COST should be the focus.  Current energy costs makes Bitcoin mining marginally profitable at best when you run the numbers, while NXT on a Raspberry Pi runs at 25 nodes for the same power as a 100 W incandescent lightbulb.  

[nxtsky]

Hey, it's been quiet for some time in here... Let's bring the voting discussion back!

So do we have any practical ideas of reliable voting at all?

The whitepaper is very vague about it, no technical details about how this magical democracy will happen.

ahh Voting!
one of my favorite discussions ;-)

Currently read many good aspects here!
I think we need to consider most of them in beta Client.
More and more it becomes clear there is not THE ONE way for VS.
But there are different poll-categories, e.g "assets polls" is different category as "best button-color polls".

The poll initiator should be able to choose boundary conditions depending on poll-topic.
The poll boundary conditions need to be transparent during run time.
To be more constructive lets try to collect some "Voting Models":

general options:

- min. permitted Account Deposit

- min. permitted Account age (Blocks)

- poll duration (Blocks)

- Voting Fee


Voting Models:

+ 1 NXT        ==   1 Vote  { vote = Func(accountBalance) }

+ 1 NXT        ==   x Vote  { x = Func(accountBalance) =  polynom * accountBalance}

+ 1 Account  ==  1 Vote   { vote = Func(accountBalance) =  0.5 * accountBalance}

+ 1 Account  ==  1 Vote   { Jcsarokrin Biometric Authenification: http://juliansarokin.com/100-years-the-future-of-government/}

+ coolmist:  {votingweight = ( 1 / similarity ) ^ (4/3) * (accountbalance)^(1/3) * (accountage)^2 (timesvoted)^(3/2)}


no claim to completeness!


We need to discuss selection options too:
[true]    [false]    [abstention]
I think [abstention] provides an important information too.
E.g. a high count of [abstention] tells the poll creator "interesting question buddy, but not this way!!!" ...

It makes sense to collect all ideas to keep the overview.
Please extent the "general options" and "voting models" and "selection options" ideas!!!

Apparently, we buy NXT as we buy stock from a company. So  1 NXT==  1 Vote is more reasonable. 1 Account  ==  1 Vote is nonsense because account can be created freely and rich people always can split his account into lots of small accounts. 1 NXT ==   x Vote is also impractical. we can't decide which NXT  has more weight. yes, give rich people more power is not democracy, but is the way a real company run.

[EvilDave]

I also learned to fear vodka.

It strongly depends on your drinking companion

I made the mistake of choosing a Russian girl as my drinking companion once.....that did not end well for EvilDave.

[Damelon]

Focusing more on the green angle of NXT.

Please focus on energy conservation (which should be dictated by common logic) WITHOUT building the argument around Global Warming.

Totally agreed. You don't want to get in a bitch fight with pro and against.
The proveable thing here is that costs are lower.

[McDoxy]

Focusing more on the green angle of NXT.

Please focus on energy conservation (which should be dictated by common logic) WITHOUT building the argument around Global Warming.

Maybe this is a wise recommendation, since there are so many people who don't believe in global warming and so many people who believe in global warming. This shouldn't get in our way.

The people who don't "believe" in global warming choose to ignore about 97% of the science community. Global warming is a scientific fact by now. Don't really see why we should care about them.

[okaynow]

Our friend moved on: http://forum.ethereum.org/index.php?p=/discussion/63/nex#latest

Can we forget about this guy? I believe he has his own nightmares to deal with, seems evildave has been too evil

[vonBerlichingen]

Focusing more on the green angle of NXT.

Please focus on energy conservation (which should be dictated by common logic) WITHOUT building the argument around Global Warming.

There you are right.

They are dirty liars, gangsters and banksters.

[smartwart]

It makes sense to collect all ideas to keep the overview.
Please extent the "general options" and "voting models" and "selection options" ideas!!!

Apparently, we buy NXT as we buy stock from a company. So  1 NXT==  1 Vote is more reasonable. 1 Account  ==  1 Vote is nonsense because account can be created freely and rich people always can split his account into lots of small accounts. 1 NXT ==   x Vote is also impractical. we can't decide which NXT  has more weight. yes, give rich people more power is not democracy, but is the way a real company run.

What is wrong, letting the poll creator decide if he want to give rich user more voting power?

[EvilDave]

 My theme would be slide after slide: Bitcoin problem, NXT solution: currency distribution, blockchain bloat, PoW arms race, 51% attack, block confirmation speed (10 min vs 1 minute), transactions per second (1 currently / 7 max for BTC, 10,000 ultimate goal for NXT), etc. etc. etc.

Excellent strategy rickyjames!

All you need to emphasize are instant transactions, earning coins from forging, anonymous messaging, and soon an anonymous marketplace - why on earth would anyone want to stick with Bitcoin?!  

Don't go totally negative...people are gonna be shifting in their seats by around the 3rd negative anti-Bitcoin point.
Emphasise NXT's strengths, not Bitcoins weaknesses.
Make sure that the concept of NXT as an ecosystem, not purely a currency, comes thru strong.

[EvilDave]

Focusing more on the green angle of NXT.

Please focus on energy conservation (which should be dictated by common logic) WITHOUT building the argument around Global Warming.

Totally agreed. You don't want to get in a bitch fight with pro and against.
The proveable thing here is that costs are lower.

I floated the idea of a carbon offset program, possibly using forging revenue from unclaimed coins, a couple of days ago:
Have a look at:
https://nextcoin.org/index.php/topic,3418.0.html

I really need to figure first out the total energy consumption of the NXT network, help (with numbers) would be useful.