NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[pinarello]

what with special cases, like the exchanges?

can they vote with users NXT?

[1714712255]

1714712255

[1714712255]

1714712255

[1714712255]

1714712255

[chanc3r]

A lot of voting discussion seems to be about two things;

What establishes your right to vote?
What establishes the impact of your vote?

Typically democracy recognises both;

Your right to vote is often recognised by age, residency or some other time based measure of your membership of a community and therefor your contribution to it - gbeirns previously posted idea of how long the NXT has been in that account on the block chain is one appropriate analogy to this recognised right to vote - similar to validity for forging it is a kind of proof of stake but a stake based on length of membership.

The impact of your vote - democratic systems universally reject the impact of vote being based on wealth and I think if NXT adopts this then the voting system will be see as aligned with a shareholder system, with real power in the hands of a few and would in the end kill the system.

The ONE ACCOUNT = ONE VOTE linked to the block chain height validated stake would I think represent a very real approach to achieving something akin to a decentralised democratic system that is very difficult to cheat for a particular vote.

Large stakeholders splitting stakes to vote multiples times is limited this way because they would have to do this so that the distribution was validated in the block chain, something as simple as if the account  has NXT that can forge then the account can vote, if the account has no valid NXT for forging then it is too recent and can't vote. We might need a longer limit but this could be a vote parameter.

If you think about an account that can forge being an account that can contribute to the network then it follows that that account should be able to vote. There are other parameters to be debated such as voting fees and I would suggest we start with something simple.

The other interesting concept is the need to obtain a petition (minimum number of pre-votes) in order to trigger a vote across the whole network - this is valid and valuable too and should be considered - I would liken this to the minimum number of confirmations or minim consensus before the network accepts that something is valid.

[Anon136]

everyone is really making this whole voting thing more complicated than it needs to be. Just give people voting power in proportion to their stake. enforce a fee equal to the minimum transaction fee to ensure that they actually care about what they are voting on. and as for how long the stake must have remained stationary, let the issuer of the ballot determine that. its not perfect but nothing ever will be and its the best trade off in incentives problems i can think of.

The problem is that not all decisions can be made like this.

Hypothetical example: we decide to choose a new logo.

So now we are relying on the taste of a few rich guys for something everybody will see everyday?

Sure. We all understand that its not perfect. No one claims that it is. Sometimes you have to go with the least bad option. 1 human body 1 vote would be ideal for certain situations (like your example with a logo) but thats just not an option that we have available to us and any attempt to get an outcome closer to that out of a system like nxt will either entail more cost than benefit or be open to massive gaming.

[brooklynbtc]

can anyone point me to where I can download print quality NXT logos?

thanks

[Passion_ltc]

can anyone point me to where I can download print quality NXT logos?

thanks

https://nextcoin.org/index.php/topic,2083.msg20515.html#msg20515

[rriky92]

Newest NXTarea.com Feature: The Paper Wallet Creator





NXTarea.com proudly announce it's newest feature! The Paper Wallet Creator.

You can create Paper Wallets which you will print out, store them in your safe and open them in 1 year (when the price is $1 per NXT) or give them to friends.

We do not take the risks of managing your password. You have to enter it by hand later or enter it by yourself on your own computer.

You simply enter your Name, nickname or friend's name and the token (website: nxtarea.com) of the account and click on the button "Download Interior Design". The Exterior Design is available via the button "Download Exterior Design" (in grey).

I hope you like this small feature and that you may use it in the future. Suggestions to: contact@nxtarea.com

To the Paper Wallet Creator!


Thank you.

Your paper wallet add two more 00 in the nxt balance

[jl777]

I have a new way to explain why NXT fundraising was closed at 73 people.

Actually 2 ways, one is a symbolic/superstitious explanation:

BCNext felt strongly that one millionth of BTC ultimate supply is the perfect amount to start NXT with.

OK, it might seem silly to a lot of you, but do you know what percentage of people believe in astrology, ghosts, numerology, etc? The million to one ratio is easily understood by almost all of the world.

The other is legal. BCNext knew that with rapidly rising BTC prices that if he didn't stop the fundraising, the amount raised would exceed the legal thresholds in more and more jurisdictions. Imagine if BCNext raised $25 million dollars worth of BTC (what etherium is trying to do), then all sorts of lawyers would be buzzing around and if NXT went down in price, there would be all sorts of legal issues to deal with. As it is with the token amount raised, there can be no legal liability from the fundraising. This is a big advantage that NXT will have over emunie, etherium, etc. I predict if they succeed in raising millions of dollars in capital, they will inevitably get embroiled in litigation, possibly from multiple jurisdictions. If the price goes down, they might very well be forced to refund all investors with what is remaining of their funds after all the legal expenses.

So, BCNext was either very superstitious, symbolic or legally conservative.

We can vote on which you think is right

James

[NxtChg]

Sure. We all understand that its not perfect. No one claims that it is. Sometimes you have to go with the least bad option. 1 human body 1 vote would be ideal for certain situations (like your example with a logo) but thats just not an option that we have available to us and any attempt to get an outcome closer to that out of a system like nxt will either entail more cost than benefit or be open to massive gaming.

It sure seems this way, but I hope that if we keep discussing it, we might eventually stumble upon some clever, unexpected solution.

Too early to give up

[xyzzyx]

Sure. We all understand that its not perfect. No one claims that it is. Sometimes you have to go with the least bad option. 1 human body 1 vote would be ideal for certain situations (like your example with a logo) but thats just not an option that we have available to us and any attempt to get an outcome closer to that out of a system like nxt will either entail more cost than benefit or be open to massive gaming.

Does NXT need whuffie?

An interesting exercise would be to see if there is a viable way to have a trust metric tied to an account number.  The metric could be transferred but only as an atomic whole, I think.

[wastedbit]

I'm wondering if a webpage can get a listing of your url history?

I don't know Javascript, but: http://www.w3schools.com/jsref/obj_history.asp

The history object contains the URLs visited by the user (within a browser window).

The history object is part of the window object and is accessed through the window.history property.

Note: There is no public standard that applies to the history object, but all major browsers support it.

I researched this last night for a few hours.  There are techniques to see if a browser has been to a site (like http:\\localhost); but, by design, a webpage (via javascript or DOM) does not allow review of full URL history.  Seems to use an internal browser function to check if a site has been visited - that's it - no general browsing of a client history.  You can throw the browser back to previous pages and then get the URL in DOM, but that would double buy an alias - which has never occurred.  Based on this, it appears URL history, by browser design, cannot be accessed from a webpage.  

I'll check if a webpage can read the clipboard.  That's about the only thing coming to mind.

BTW.  If anyone was clever enough to do this, they would make millions in advertising.  No need to waste time with NXT atm.

Javascript can definitely read the clipboard from a webpage.  If you copy-n-paste password, clear the clipboard after you log in NRS.

http://brooknovak.wordpress.com/2009/07/28/accessing-the-system-clipboard-with-javascript/

and

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6413036/get-current-clipboard-content

[EvilDave]

Upgrade to 5.10 now !!

Please.....

We have 73 blocks to go to 51000, and if u r still running an older NRS version there will be forking !
And not the good kind......


Thats about 73 minutes from now. Go.....




BTW: There is a node still running 4.7e.....oh, god....facepalm.

[TwinWinNerD]

Daily Update of NXT Top Account distribution:




Data can be found here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtzyrOvYCfTTdEphdjBHNlNUMVZZUXd2RmlNVDRiUWc&usp=sharing

Includes the 2 big Exchange accounts: 10715382765594435905 and 12292439833850569026

[jl777]

I have a new way to explain why NXT fundraising was closed at 73 people.

James

NXT fundraising was closed because BCNext generated the Genesis Block. 

It's not that hard to understand, but people seem to want to create all kinds of controversy around it.

It was closed so the genesis block could be created and the community could start building the software and ecosystem. If BCNext waited until Jan, we'd be 2 months behind.

Yes, time to market is another good angle.

I understand this. What I sense is that this initial distribution is the weakest point of NXT and that we need a simple easy to understand answer that doesn't allow for it to be twisted into the NXT opponents mantra of "greedy founders".

Who can argue with someone being superstitious or symbolic or legally astute?
If we shift the debate to whether BCnext was superstitious or legally astute, it avoids the whole "greedy founders" mantra. We do have to be aware of how NXT is perceived by the public. We don't want to dwell on it, so that is why I tried to come up with an easy one liner we can use to move past this subject.

FCclone: "NXT is so unfair, 73 people made a ton of money"
answer: "BCNext was superstitious and wanted to avoid any legal problems from raising too much money"

I do not think we can ignore this issue. Just trying to help fine tune our response.

James

[pandaisftw]

I have a new way to explain why NXT fundraising was closed at 73 people.

James

NXT fundraising was closed because BCNext generated the Genesis Block.  

It's not that hard to understand, but people seem to want to create all kinds of controversy around it.

It was closed so the genesis block could be created and the community could start building the software and ecosystem. If BCNext waited until Jan, we'd be 2 months behind.


Also, he stopped at 21 bitcoins because he liked the number "21", as in there are 21 million bitcoins  That's the only symbolism going on around here.

Yeah, it's hard to imagine that all the progress that has been made already... not happening. Especially with ETH, mastercoin, eMunie, etc. all around the corner and all shooting for the nxt big thing since Bitcoin...

[brooklynbtc]

who is the web admin at nxtcrypto.org?

thanks

nm, i meant http://www.thenxtcoin.com/

[coolmist]

Does anyone have a timeline of the implementation of transparent forging?

Speaking of voting, here is a basic working php script of my voting system...

Code:

<?php
$randomToken = rand(000000000, 999999999);


?>
<html>
<body>

<p> Post this into your authorization token creation form on NRS |<?php echo $randomToken; ?>| .</p>

<form action='clientfunctions.php' method='post'>
<input type='hidden' name='randomvalue' value="<?php echo $randomToken; ?>"><br>
Account Number: <input type='text' name='account'><br>
Authorization Token: <input type='text' name='token'><br>
<input type='submit'>
</form>

</body>
</html>

Test1.php

Code:

<?php

// <!-- $accountNumber = _POST['account'] --!>
$option = $_POST["option"];
$accountNumber = $_POST["account"];
$accountBalance = $_POST["balance"];
$accountAge = $_POST["age"];

if (!file_exists("$accountNumber")) {
    mkdir("$accountNumber");
}

// <!-- Issues voted on is retrieved ---!>
$filenameTIVO = "$MasterVoteCount.txt";
	if (file_exists("$filenameTIVO")) 
{

    $TotalIssuesVotedOn = file_get_contents($filenameTIVO);
    
} 
	else 
{
    $newData = '0';
    fopen("$filenameTIVO", "w");
}
//<!-- Issues voted on is retrieved ---!>

//<!-- Similarity Modifier on is retrieved ---!>
$filenameSIMMOD = "$accountNumber" . "/similarity.txt";
	if (file_exists($filenameSIMMOD)) 
{

    $similarityModifier = file_get_contents($filenameSIMMOD);
} 
	else 
{
	$newData = '1';
	fopen($filenameSIMMOD, "w");
}
//<!-- Similarity Modifier is retrieved ---!>

//<!-- account Ballance on is retrieved ---!>
 $filenameACNTBAL = "$accountNumber" . "/balance.txt";
	if (file_exists($filenameACNTBAL)) 
{
    $newData = '5000';
    file_put_contents($filenameACNTBAL, intval($newData));
    $accountBalance = intval(file_get_contents($filenameACNTBAL));
    
} 
	else 
{
    $newData = '5000';
    fopen($filenameACNTBAL, "w");
}
//<!-- account Ballance is retrieved ---!>

//<!-- account age on is retrieved ---!>
$filenameACNTAGE = "$accountNumber" . "/age.txt";
	if (file_exists($filenameACNTAGE)) 
{
	$newData = '1';
    file_put_contents($filenameACNTAGE, intval($newData));
    $accountAge = intval(file_get_contents($filenameACNTAGE));  
    
} 
	else 
{
    $newData = '1';
    fopen($filenameACNTAGE, "w");
    
}
//<!-- account age is retrieved ---!>


//$nxtAge = something goes here;

//<!-- Times voted is retrieved and updated ---!>
$filename = "$accountNumber" . "/timesvoted.txt";
	if (file_exists($filename)) 
{

    $oldData = file_get_contents($filename);
    $newData = intval($oldData) + 1;
    file_put_contents($filename, $newData);
    
} 
	else 
{
    $newData = "500";
    fopen($filename, "w");
    file_put_contents($filename, $newData);
}
//<!-- Times voted is retrieved and updated ---!>

//<!--$TimesVoted = file_get_contents("$accountNumber" . "/timesvoted.txt");---!>
//<!--$TotalIssuesVotedOn = file_get_contents("MasterVoteCount.txt");---!>
$TimesVoted = 0;

//$accountBalance = intval(file_get_contents($filenameACNTBAL));
//$accountAge = intval(file_get_contents($filenameACNTAGE));
//$TotalIssuesVotedOn = file_get_contents($filenameTIVO);



$TotalIssuesVotedOn = 1;
$similarityModifier = file_get_contents($filenameSIMMOD);


//<!-- Account is added to vote ---!>
$votes = '';
$filename = "$TotalIssuesVotedOn" . "/" . "$option" . "votes.txt";
	if (file_exists($filename)) 
{

    $oldData = unserialize(file_get_contents($filename));
    $oldData = array();
    $oldData['account'] = $accountNumber;
    $oldData['weight'] = intval(pow((intval($similarityModifier)+1), 1.25) * pow(intval($accountAge), 2) * pow(intval($accountBalance), .3));
    $newData = serialize($oldData);
    fopen($filename, "w");
    file_put_contents($filename, $newData);
    
} 
	else 
{
	$oldData = array();
    $oldData['account'] = $accountNumber;
    $oldData['weight'] = intval(pow((intval($similarityModifier)+1), 2) * pow(intval($accountAge), 2) * pow(intval($accountBalance), 1));
    $newData = serialize($oldData);
    fopen($filename, "w");
    file_put_contents($filename, $newData);
}

var_dump($oldData);


echo intval($oldData['weight']);
echo $oldData['account'];

echo "-|age| = $accountAge |-";
echo "-|balance| = $accountBalance |-";
//<!-- Account is added to vote ---!>


    
?>

Code:

<?php $optionOne = $_POST['option1']
$optionTwo= $_POST['option2']

$TotalIssuesVotedOn = file_get_contents("MasterVoteCount.txt");

$DataOne = unserialize(file_get_contents($optionOne . ".txt"));
$VotesOne = array_sum($DataOne['weight']) ;

$DataTwo = unserialize(file_get_contents($optionTwo . ".txt"));
$VotesTwo = array_sum($DataTwo['weight'])

if($VotesTwo < $VotesOne)
{
   
	echo "Option One Wins";
	
	$split = 1 - $VotesOne / ($VotesTwo + $VotesOne);
	$BankA = $DataOne['account'];
	$newData = serialize($BankA);
   
	file_put_contents("BankA" . $TotalIssuesVotedOn . ".txt", $newData);
}
   
   else
   
{
   $split = 1 - $VotesTwo / ($VotesTwo + $VotesOne);
   echo "Option Two Wins";
   
     $BankA = $DataTwo['account'];
     
    $newData = serialize($BankA);
     
	file_put_contents("BankA" . $TotalIssuesVotedOn . ".txt", $newData);
}

$splitfilename = "Issue" . "$TotalIssuesVotedOn" . "/split.txt";

file_put_contents($splitfilename, $split);
file_put_contents("MasterVoteCount.txt", $TotalIssuesVotedOn);

if($TotalIssuesVotedOn < 4)
{
	echo "completed";
}
	else 
{
	$var_a = $TotalIssuesVotedOn - 1;
	$var_b = $TotalIssuesVotedOn - 2;
	$var_c = $TotalIssuesVotedOn - 3;

	$splitA = file_get_contents("Issue" . "$TotalIssuesVotedOn" . "/split.txt"); 
	$splitB = file_get_contents("Issue" . "$var_a" . "/split.txt"); 
	$splitC = file_get_contents("Issue" . "$var_b" . "/split.txt"); 
	$splitD = file_get_contents("Issue" . "$var_c" . "/split.txt"); 

	$Bank1 = file_get_contents("BankA" . $TotalIssuesVotedOn . ".txt");
	$Bank2 = file_get_contents("BankA" . $var_a . ".txt");
	$Bank3 = file_get_contents("BankA" . $var_b . ".txt");
	$Bank4 = file_get_contents("BankA" . $var_c . ".txt");

	$AllBanks = array(  $Bank1,
                   		$Bank2,
                  		$Bank3,
                   		$Bank4
                 	 );

	$SimilarAccounts = call_user_func_array('array_intersect',$AllBanks);

	$var_d = array_sum($SimilarAccounts);

	$similarityAdded = .1 / ($splitA * $splitB * $splitC * $splitD);
 

	$var_e = 0;
		while ($var_e < ($var_d - 1))
  		{
 		 $similarityModifier = file_get_contents($SimilarAccounts[$var_e] . "/similarity.txt");
  
  		 $similarityModifier = $similarityModifier + $similarityAdded;
  
  		 file_put_contents($SimilarAccounts[$var_e] . "/similarity.txt", $similarityModifier);
  
  		 $var_e = $var_e + 1;
  		}
}
$TotalIssuesVotedOn = $TotalIssuesVotedOn + 1; php?>
  

[pandaisftw]

Is this including exchange accounts?

[TwinWinNerD]

Daily Update of NXT Top Account distribution:




Data can be found here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtzyrOvYCfTTdEphdjBHNlNUMVZZUXd2RmlNVDRiUWc&usp=sharing

Is this including exchange accounts?

yes, and i see no reason in excluding them, as the exchange owners have FULL control of those NXT. (Voting and forging power)

[User705]

I have a new way to explain why NXT fundraising was closed at 73 people.

James

NXT fundraising was closed because BCNext generated the Genesis Block. 

It's not that hard to understand, but people seem to want to create all kinds of controversy around it.

It was closed so the genesis block could be created and the community could start building the software and ecosystem. If BCNext waited until Jan, we'd be 2 months behind.

Yes, time to market is another good angle.

I understand this. What I sense is that this initial distribution is the weakest point of NXT and that we need a simple easy to understand answer that doesn't allow for it to be twisted into the NXT opponents mantra of "greedy founders".

Who can argue with someone being superstitious or symbolic or legally astute?
If we shift the debate to whether BCnext was superstitious or legally astute, it avoids the whole "greedy founders" mantra. We do have to be aware of how NXT is perceived by the public. We don't want to dwell on it, so that is why I tried to come up with an easy one liner we can use to move past this subject.

FCclone: "NXT is so unfair, 73 people made a ton of money"
answer: "BCNext was superstitious and wanted to avoid any legal problems from raising too much money"

I do not think we can ignore this issue. Just trying to help fine tune our response.

James

The other response is also that initial trading of Nxt saw a price drop.  So anyone could've been buying as much as they wanted at a cheaper price.

[cryptolawyer]

what with special cases, like the exchanges?

can they vote with users NXT?

Perhaps a colored coin concept can preserve the identity of the beneficial owners of NXT on an exchange? Something that is attached when a user acquires or uploads NXT, and removed when it is sold?

Or a smart contract between the exchange and its users requiring the exhange to cast votes as directed by users?