Meanwhile in Ukraine... Revolution.

[niothor]

Tara Romanesca gained independence from Hungary 400 years before becoming what is know as a ottoman pasalac.
Moldova was never under complete Hungarian rule , Poland had far more influence in the area.
Transilvania was briefly conquered but not the entire area just the Banat region was under ottoman influence and that ended long before the 1918 reunion.

So please don't trash my country history like that .

Well, it was already placed into trashcan by revisionism followers.

Wallachia (aka Ţara Românească) and Transylvania were parts of Hungarian Kingdom. Hungarian Kingdom was weakened in the beginning of 14th century, as the result an autonomy was received by Wallachia and Transylvania since this period of time. Later these lands were conquered and freed consequently many times. There was a pro-turkish coup in the Romanian Kingdom in 1601, for example

Agree on the bold text , even I can't count the times hungaryan-habsburg-ottoman influence changed.

But if you're referring to the death of Mihai Viteazu in 1601 , he was killed by habsurgs not ottomans.
Also wallachia is not actually the same as what we call tara romaneasca but hell , no , this ain't the romanian history thread.
We're going off-topic too much here i guess.

[bryant.coleman]

Unwanted by both the Kiev junta and the pro-federalists in Donetsk and Lugansk. The richest man in Ukraine, oligarch Renat Akhmetov urges the resident to stay in Ukraine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlWHFyKdKEA

[Balthazar]

But if you're referring to the death of Mihai Viteazu in 1601 , he was killed by habsurgs not ottomans.

He was killed by members of conspiracy headed by Giorgio Basta. After this real power in Wallachia and Moldova was seized by pro-Ottoman boyars.

Also wallachia is not actually the same as what we call tara romaneasca but hell , no , this ain't the romanian history thread.

The word "Wallachia" came from Germanic languages, originally it was used as the name for Țara Românească or its principality. So it doesn't matter how somebody calls it. Țara Românească and Wallachia are the names of the same historically important region, which is located in the southern part of Romania.

Maybe you mean that Țara Românească and principality of Wallachia are not the same? If so, then you are correct.

Unwanted by both the Kiev junta and the pro-federalists in Donetsk and Lugansk. The richest man in Ukraine, oligarch Renat Akhmetov urges the resident to stay in Ukraine.

Akhmetov is a loser, like all collaborators. A bit later he will become Ukrainian counterpart of Khodorkovsky.

[bryant.coleman]

Russians are off-loading their US treasury bonds. Now Obama must find someone else to take care of the US public debt.  

Russians Flee U.S. Treasury Debt As Sanctions Hit

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2014/05/15/russians-flee-u-s-treasury-debt-as-sanctions-hit/



BTW... oligarch Ihor Kolomoyski allegedly sets a price on Oleg Tsarev's head, at $1 million.

[Nemo1024]

He-he. Merkel stated that tight cooperation with Russia must continue despite the crisis in Ukraine:
http://www.vedomosti.ru/politics/news/26558211/merkel-zayavila-o-neobhodimosti-sotrudnichat-s-rossiej

[boopy265420]

this will end with some big war as Russia is trying to restore her lost status again.

[Nemo1024]

this will end with some big war as Russia is trying to restore her lost status again.

Doubtful. You might find this thread in the responses and reasoning on that topic of possible invasion of Russia interesting:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=584031.0

[Nemo1024]

UN Ukraine report shows double standards in attempt to whitewash Kiev's actions - Russia
http://rt.com/news/159388-un-report-ukraine-criticism/

Moscow has accused a UN report on violence in Ukraine’s Odessa of being purposefully blind to hard facts and simply “carrying out a political order to whitewash” the actions of the coup-appointed government in Kiev.

Among other things, it [the report] also focuses on the problems the Tatar minority currently faces in Crimea - although there’s no mention of Kiev blocking the region’s freshwater supply – which “violates a whole range of human rights”.

...

The foreign ministry found it peculiar that “in some 30 pages of text, there is not one mention of any manifestation of aggressive nationalism and neo-Nazism in Ukraine.”

...

The icing on the cake, in Moscow’s view, could be seen in the venue where the UN findings were presented – and by whom: in Kiev, by the UN secretary-general’s assistant, Ivan Shimonovich, who has a “reputation for a lack of objectivity, making sweeping judgments” and “unsubstantiated claims.”

Shimonovich’s role in the presentation is seen as “an unambiguous indication” of the OHCHR’s bias and lack of independence and objectivity.

[bryant.coleman]

NATO Secretary General: Ukraine may seek military assistance from individual countries of the Alliance. If Putin is really intelligent, then he should reply that the Donetsk People's Republic can seek military assistance from individual federal subjects of Russia.

[escrow.pm]

NATO Secretary General: Ukraine may seek military assistance from individual countries of the Alliance. If Putin is really intelligent, then he should reply that the Donetsk People's Republic can seek military assistance from individual federal subjects of Russia.

nato - the provocateurs

[Rassah]

Some sane voices do exist in Western Europe. 

EU policy to blame for Ukraine crisis - Ex-Chancellor Schroeder

http://rt.com/news/158432-schroeder-russia-sanctions-eu/

Germany’s former Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder has blamed European Union policy for the current situation in Ukraine and urged the West to stop focusing on new sanctions against Russia. In Schroeder’s opinion, the EU’s fundamental mistake - that subsequently led to the ongoing crisis in Ukraine – was its association policy, he said in an interview with German newspaper Welt am Sonntag published Sunday.

That's kind of a stupid statement. He is blaming the existence of a group of countries that have economic agreements, that were good enough that Ukraine wanted to join in, on what happened in Ukraine? I would have blamed whoever it was that was trying to prevent Ukraine from joining the thing they waned to join. I mean, it's almost like blaming the store a person was trying to get to for that person getting mugged, and not the mugger that prevented that person from getting to the store.

[Rassah]

There is only one major difference between USA and USSR. Constitution of USA doesn't provide a right to secede, while USSR constitution provided a possibility of such procedure. This difference makes a peaceful dissolution almost impossible.

That you think the USSR constitution was followed, or even meant something, is very telling...

[Nemo1024]

Some sane voices do exist in Western Europe. 

EU policy to blame for Ukraine crisis - Ex-Chancellor Schroeder

http://rt.com/news/158432-schroeder-russia-sanctions-eu/

Germany’s former Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder has blamed European Union policy for the current situation in Ukraine and urged the West to stop focusing on new sanctions against Russia. In Schroeder’s opinion, the EU’s fundamental mistake - that subsequently led to the ongoing crisis in Ukraine – was its association policy, he said in an interview with German newspaper Welt am Sonntag published Sunday.

That's kind of a stupid statement. He is blaming the existence of a group of countries that have economic agreements, that were good enough that Ukraine wanted to join in, on what happened in Ukraine? I would have blamed whoever it was that was trying to prevent Ukraine from joining the thing they waned to join. I mean, it's almost like blaming the store a person was trying to get to for that person getting mugged, and not the mugger that prevented that person from getting to the store.

Ukraine also wanted to join the Customs Union. Russia said, fine, we can talk about it. EU said, no way, choose either us or them.

[Nemo1024]

There is only one major difference between USA and USSR. Constitution of USA doesn't provide a right to secede, while USSR constitution provided a possibility of such procedure. This difference makes a peaceful dissolution almost impossible.

That you think the USSR constitution was followed, or even meant something, is very telling...

You are right there. It was not followed at least on one very telling occasion: when Crimea was transferred from RSFSR to UkSSR.

[Rassah]

What Ukraine’s economy looks like without its Russian-speaking regions

http://qz.com/209081/what-ukraines-economy-looks-like-without-its-russian-speaking-regions/

Is there a similar article for what Britain's economy looks like without its english speaking regions (including USA, Canada, India, South Africa, and Australia)? I mean, that IS what is being implied, right? That if the people speak the same language, then they still belong to the main country?

[Balthazar]

There is only one major difference between USA and USSR. Constitution of USA doesn't provide a right to secede, while USSR constitution provided a possibility of such procedure. This difference makes a peaceful dissolution almost impossible.

That you think the USSR constitution was followed, or even meant something, is very telling...

Oh my God, who's telling what constitution was followed?   Of course it wasn't followed, just like US constitution. It's only about theoretical possibility of dissolution.

[Rassah]

After the Russians, it is the turn of the Magyars. After them, it will be the Romanians and Bulgarians.

Hungarian PM Orbán demands autonomy for Hungarians in Ukraine

http://www.portfolio.hu/en/economy/hungarian_pm_orban_demands_autonomy_for_hungarians_in_ukraine.27766.html

Ukraine Is Urged to Extend Autonomy for Ethnic Hungarians

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-05-12/ukraine-is-urged-to-extend-autonomy-for-ethnic-hungarians.html

If this goes on , the whole map will be like a broken puzzle.
And once Ukraine is finished we should start splitting Romania , next Bulgaria and maybe Serbia once more?

We should include Romania into Hungary, because Romania was created by puppets of Ottoman empire using stolen hungarian lands.

You seem to be very much pro "force countries together, even if by force, because the regions were historically one, even if the people and cultures slit up due to irreconcilable differences." Very imperialistic and Soviet of you.

As for history, there is a whole shitload of distortions and lies on this thread. I have a feeling a lot of the posters here have only learned Soviet/Russian revisionist made-up bullshit that, obviously, would suggest that everything was part of Russia at some point.

[Rassah]

There is only one major difference between USA and USSR. Constitution of USA doesn't provide a right to secede, while USSR constitution provided a possibility of such procedure. This difference makes a peaceful dissolution almost impossible.

That you think the USSR constitution was followed, or even meant something, is very telling...

You are right there. It was not followed at least on one very telling occasion: when Crimea was transferred from RSFSR to UkSSR.

It was not followed on any occasions. USSR didn't have a democracy.

Oh my God, who's telling what constitution was followed?   Of course it wasn't followed, just like US constitution. It's only about theoretical possibility of dissolution.

Let's see: Freedom of the press unabridged - check. Separation of church and state - check. Can't house troops in people's houses - check. Can't incriminate yourself - check. ETC. ETC. ETC. As much as you want to compare, most of the US constitution is actually being followed, even if certain parts are being rather "stretched." And the people who do stretch them are being voted on, and thus risk getting kicked out (though not any more). In USSR, no one cared about the constitution. Hell, most people didn't even know it existed. Totalitarian communist leaders could just do whatever they wanted, and if it went against the constitution, they could just change it later. There really is no comparison, despite how much as you'd love to believe that USA was as bad as USSR.
P.S. Not saying USA is great, and it's kind of slipping into the same BS, but it's still nowhere near as bad.

[bryant.coleman]

Honestly, the Germans still don't know which side they are on. 

Germany welcomes Ukraine talks but warns of human rights abuses

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/16/us-ukraine-germany-rights-idUSBREA4F08P20140516

[Nemo1024]

You are saying something there...

EU stated today that the sanctions against Russia will not touch the energy sector.
http://lenta.ru/news/2014/05/16/sanctions1/
[sarcasm]Oh, thank you very much, EU, you are so generous![/sarcasm]


The court of appeal in Ukraine sustained ban on transmission of 4 Russian TV channels on Ukrainian territory:
http://www.newsru.com/world/16may2014/russiantv.html