[NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread

[jabo38]

One question. If you auction 2 identical Macbook on Ebay at the same time, which one will yield higher price ? the one set up with a no reserve auction or the one set up with a 1000$ reserved auction ?

My gf has a business selling old records on Ebay.  She has sold thousands.  Now.... this is a completely different product than NEM, so we should consider that.  But she will set the price at half of what she wants to sell it for.  Her method is to show a good product at a very cheap starting price.  (she doesn't start it at 0 because she wants to know she will at least get some money)  Lots of people click "watch" and this is her goal.  Once they have clicked watch and it is close to the end of the auction the bidding will start.  A few people will bid at the low price just because it is so low and they want a good deal.  But once the bidding starts, it creates a group movement and other people will bid, and once a person has bid at a low price, then they will be more likely to bid again higher once somebody has outbid them.  The key to her strategy is getting lots of "watchers".  I think NEM definitely has that going for it in that it is definitely on the radar of the community.  

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[MrPortMan]

什么时候领币啊，都等了半年了

Чepeз пoл гoдa бyдeт cнижeниe в цeнe Nem. Этo yжe вceм oчeвиднo. Пoэтoмy я и пpeдлoжил в нaчaлe зa дёшeвo нe пpoдaвaть cвoи дoли. Nxt, пocлe тoгo кaк вышeл нa pынoк, вo вpeмя пoдъёмa BitCoin, cтaл cтoить в 10 paз дopoжe oт нaчaльнoй цeны. Bcё этo из-зa тoгo, чтo был пoдъём китaйцaми и вeздe шёл pocт. Ceйчac жe мы видим вceoбщий cпaд нa кpиптo фoнe. Этo oзнaчaeт тo, чтo цeнa нa Nem пocлe тoгo кaк нaчнyтcя пepвыe тopги нa биpжax - бyдeт пaдaть.

Идeaльным cтapтoм для Nem и вpeмeнeм выxoдoв нa тopги я бы личнo выбpaл тoт пepиoд вpeмeни, кoгдa BitCoin нaчнёт cвoё вocxoждeниe.
Taким oбpaзoм мы yвидим y Nem pocт кoтиpoвoк и мoжнo дaжe нa минимaльныx знaчeнияx нaчинaть тopги т. к. в любoм cлyчae бyдeт pocт кaк минимyм в x10 paз.

Through a floor of year there will be a decrease in Nem price. It is already obvious to all. Therefore I also offered at the beginning for cheap not to sell the shares. Nxt after entered the market, during BitCoin lifting, began to be 10 times more expensive from the initial price. All this because was lifting by Chinese and everywhere there was growth. Now we see general recession on a crypto background. It means that the price of Nem after the first auction at the exchanges will begin - will fall.

For Nem and time of exits for the auction I personally would choose as ideal start that period of time when BitCoin will begin the ascension.
Thus we will see growth of quotations at Nem and it is possible even to begin the auction on the minimum values since anyway there will be growth at least in x10 time.

[jabo38]

I like the idea of 100,000 NEM auctions. Yes, it smaller than the original stake holders but we could get a lot more. I think it would be awesome to say that 2500 people came from the original stakeholders and another 2500 as 2nd stakeholders. If we had 5000 original stakeholders, that would be HUGE. That many people would surely create an image that NEM is by far hands down the most fair crypto of all.

[Hacer88]

Mintpal didn't add NXT because it has a totally different code than other Bitcoin forks.

So they didn't know how to add it. If they add NEM. NEM would start with 1-0 already 

[Andrew DD]

I have post it in the wrong threat:

On the one hand it is not so bad if some have more shares. The there was at Nxt also and but these need to be aware when they can not contribute much to development keep a portion of their coins for the people willing to work hard to NEM (bounties) and that is really very important!
So I would also like to have a share, but I am thinking not only of myself but the majority will go into the development, without which I have no benefit from a share.
But hey, a proportion 1 million coins is a lot.
I could not log in through Facebook because I do not even have something like that! I'm not a friend of Facebook and CO and I've never been and I stand over it when all laugh about it I'm not going！

[ShawnLeary]

Mintpal didn't add NXT because it has a totally different code than other Bitcoin forks.

So they didn't know how to add it. If they add NEM. NEM would start with 1-0 already  

Do we really want to be on an exchange that doesn't have the know how to add a java based crypto?  I mean, how hard would it be to reach out to the NxT community and ask for help with the API and adding it.  Bter and Crytpsy eventually got it done.  We should focus on those two as they have already shown their know how. Eventually Cryptsy will handle fiat, then new blood can skip BitCoin entirely

[patmast3r]

I think a fair starting price for each stake is between 0.2-0.5 BTC. The stakes for the waiting list guys will be 0.1 BTC, so a 0.2 BTC starting price seems fair to me.

If I were just thinking about myself I would hope this is right because I don't have a stake. I would by a bunch.

But if this is the price, that would be pretty bad for NEMs value. The community and especially the Devs behind this project should be worth at least 5 to 10 BTC min.

the starting price doesnt really matter but at the same time.. its not good to under/over value the project.... .5-1 btc should be the starting price.... or.. do batches starting out set the first batch to .2 and the second batch starting price 75-90 percent of the previous batch and batches getting smaller over time.. so you could go

40 stakes starting out at .2
(assume .8 per stake acheived)

30 @ .6
(1btc acheived)

20 @ .75
(1.4)

10 @ .85
(1.8 )

5 @ .95
(3)

5 @ 2.25
(4)
 
5 * 2 stakes @ 3btc

I think the starting price should be what would have been the next step if the registration thread would not have been closed.

We were at 750 NXT / .75 BTC right ?

Let's make the starting price 800 NXT / .8 BTC then. 

[jabo38]

I think the starting price should be what would have been the next step if the registration thread would not have been closed.

We were at 750 NXT / .75 BTC right ?

Let's make the starting price 800 NXT / .8 BTC then. 

Something like that sounds reasonable to me.  I wonder though about the people in the waiting list and what they pay for their shares should affect the auction too?

[Wesiematic]

I'm looking forward for testing an alpha version
and if i'm able to do to setup a NEM-Node

thx for the amazing project

[sevenyears26]

I think a fair starting price for each stake is between 0.2-0.5 BTC. The stakes for the waiting list guys will be 0.1 BTC, so a 0.2 BTC starting price seems fair to me.

If I were just thinking about myself I would hope this is right because I don't have a stake. I would by a bunch.

But if this is the price, that would be pretty bad for NEMs value. The community and especially the Devs behind this project should be worth at least 5 to 10 BTC min.

the starting price doesnt really matter but at the same time.. its not good to under/over value the project.... .5-1 btc should be the starting price.... or.. do batches starting out set the first batch to .2 and the second batch starting price 75-90 percent of the previous batch and batches getting smaller over time.. so you could go

40 stakes starting out at .2
(assume .8 per stake acheived)

30 @ .6
(1btc acheived)

20 @ .75
(1.4)

10 @ .85
(1.8 )

5 @ .95
(3)

5 @ 2.25
(4)
 
5 * 2 stakes @ 3btc

I think the starting price should be what would have been the next step if the registration thread would not have been closed.

We were at 750 NXT / .75 BTC right ?

Let's make the starting price 800 NXT / .8 BTC then. 

Makes sense

[freigeist]

has any one any experience with code academy? and when it comes to cryptos.. whats the best language to learn? iv done a good bit in jave but not a massive amount. so would it be best to continue with java?

Hello.

Code academy is good is some ways but in other it isn't.
For example there are a lot of exercises with solutions which is good but i think the way
that things are explained there is not good for people without any experience in programming.
I'm saying this because i know people that completed some of this courses on code academy
and got those points there but when a assignment was given to them they were unable
to solve simple problems.

From that perspective I would suggest you to check some beginners  programming
courses on coursera at https://www.coursera.org/

Also when it comes to cryptos or in general what is the best language to learn I would say
start with python if you have no experience at all.
Then when you master this and the programming principles gets clear to you than you
can switch to other languages easy.

If you started with java and if understanding of (OOP) Object Oriented Programming is not
a big deal for you than you should stick with Java until you get some experience
and try to make some small programs with it.

I hope i helped you little bit

Bye.

[Spider]

I think a fair starting price for each stake is between 0.2-0.5 BTC. The stakes for the waiting list guys will be 0.1 BTC, so a 0.2 BTC starting price seems fair to me.

If I were just thinking about myself I would hope this is right because I don't have a stake. I would by a bunch.

But if this is the price, that would be pretty bad for NEMs value. The community and especially the Devs behind this project should be worth at least 5 to 10 BTC min.

the starting price doesnt really matter but at the same time.. its not good to under/over value the project.... .5-1 btc should be the starting price.... or.. do batches starting out set the first batch to .2 and the second batch starting price 75-90 percent of the previous batch and batches getting smaller over time.. so you could go

40 stakes starting out at .2
(assume .8 per stake acheived)

30 @ .6
(1btc acheived)

20 @ .75
(1.4)

10 @ .85
(1.8 )

5 @ .95
(3)

5 @ 2.25
(4)
 
5 * 2 stakes @ 3btc

I think the starting price should be what would have been the next step if the registration thread would not have been closed.

We were at 750 NXT / .75 BTC right ?

Let's make the starting price 800 NXT / .8 BTC then. 

Makes sense

No, it doesn't. 800 NXT != 0.8 BTC.

[sevenyears26]

I think a fair starting price for each stake is between 0.2-0.5 BTC. The stakes for the waiting list guys will be 0.1 BTC, so a 0.2 BTC starting price seems fair to me.

If I were just thinking about myself I would hope this is right because I don't have a stake. I would by a bunch.

But if this is the price, that would be pretty bad for NEMs value. The community and especially the Devs behind this project should be worth at least 5 to 10 BTC min.

the starting price doesnt really matter but at the same time.. its not good to under/over value the project.... .5-1 btc should be the starting price.... or.. do batches starting out set the first batch to .2 and the second batch starting price 75-90 percent of the previous batch and batches getting smaller over time.. so you could go

40 stakes starting out at .2
(assume .8 per stake acheived)

30 @ .6
(1btc acheived)

20 @ .75
(1.4)

10 @ .85
(1.8 )

5 @ .95
(3)

5 @ 2.25
(4)
 
5 * 2 stakes @ 3btc

I think the starting price should be what would have been the next step if the registration thread would not have been closed.

We were at 750 NXT / .75 BTC right ?

Let's make the starting price 800 NXT / .8 BTC then. 

Makes sense

No, it doesn't. 800 NXT != 0.8 BTC.

Well... The idea makes sense maybe not the math...

[xtester]

I think a fair starting price for each stake is between 0.2-0.5 BTC. The stakes for the waiting list guys will be 0.1 BTC, so a 0.2 BTC starting price seems fair to me.

But fairness doesn't seem to have a clear meaning in this situation.

Fairness relative to what, to buyers or to the devs and community who put a lot of hard work into this?

The call to participation was 1st phase to get in, waiting list is 2nd phase and auction is whole different matter.

With the auction we should aim to prepare for the market and set a real price for the stakes. The call for participation and auction should not be put together and compared because they are different things with different purpose.

Anyway, I would be very interested to hear Utopians view on this matter.

One question. If you auction 2 identical Macbook on Ebay at the same time, which one will yield higher price ? the one set up with a no reserve auction or the one set up with a 1000$ reserved auction ?

Interesting question. I think the answer here may depend a lot on the product at hand. If it is a Macbook, given the brand Apple has build, the product may indeed sell even better without a starting price. But that is not because the starting price is the most important factor, but rather, as I said, due to the great brand Apple has built and the strong demand that exists for their products. Indeed, I think the absence of a starting price when a great brand and enough demand exist, would gather a lot more people around an auction simply because the auction will feed their impression that they could buy a high value product for a cheap price, even though in the end they may pay more than they would have if the price was fixed.

So the natural question that arises now is do we have a strong enough brand to benefit from an absence of price or should we start with at least half the price we would expect to be minimum, as a safety precaution?

I was also thinking about Nassim Taleb's(some of you may be familiar to his ideas) antifragility theory and I think our aim should be to create an antifragile or at least resilient/robust market. Meaning that we should not fear the dumpers, but take them into account and even encourage(incentivize) them to get it over with as soon as possible. In fact, there may be some people who have received a stake but don't intend to help or keep it and so through this natural selection process the real supporters hold and contribute to the value of the movement while the dumpers exit and help us grow even faster by decreasing the risk to big dumping happening further down the road.

[Schwarzalbert]

Cтaвя тaкиe низкиe нaчaльныe цeны ayкциoнa oт 0.2 - 0.5 BTC вы нe бoитecь тoгo, чтo Nem мoжeт пoтoм oкaзaтьcя зa 100 мecтo пo Market cap и cтaть тaм ни кoмy нe нyжнoй мoнeтoй, нa кoтopyю внимaния нe бyдyт oбpaщaть и цeнa плaвнo бyдeт идти вниз и вниз. B итoгe oкaжeтcя нa 150 мecтe пo Market cap.

Pacкpoю вaм вceм oдин ceкpeт - ceйчac инвecтopы peдкo ктo cмoтpят дaльшe 10 мecтa пo Market cap. Te ктo идyт дaльшe 10 мecтa и нe тopгyютcя нa тaкиx кpyпныx биpжax кaк Btc-e - вce oни пoтeнциaльныe тpyпы мoнeты.

Bы xoтитe пoxopoнить Nem низкoй изнaчaльнo цeнoй и низким зa 100 мecтo пo вepcии Market cap?

Putting such low initial prices of auction from 0.2 - 0.5 BTC you aren't afraid of that Nem can appear then for the 100th place on Market cap and to become there to whom not the necessary coin on which attention won't turn and the price smoothly will go down and down. As a result it will appear on the 150th place on Market cap.

I will cut out to all of you one secret - now investors seldom who look further the 10th place on Market cap. Those who go further the 10th place and don't bargain at such large exchanges as Btc-e - all of them are potential corpses of a coin.

You want to bury Nem low initially at the price of and low for the 100th place according to Market cap?

+1
Thats the way I'm also thinking about it. We should start in Top 10! That will guarantee NEM will remain in the Top 10.

[mikesbmw]

No, it doesn't. 800 NXT != 0.8 BTC.

Well... The idea makes sense maybe not the math...

My vision:

I think you all expect way to much of this auction.

A high price at auction has no effect on the WHOLE batch of NEM.
Reason why it will fetch a high price is of the low amount of stakes being sold.

Imagine:

- We put 5 stakes up for auction
- 10 stakes
- 100 stakes
- 120 stakes

Which stakes do you think will fetch the highest prices?
Now think of what happens when ALL of the 3 billion NEM potentially comes available on an exchange...

Even if people know there are 3000 stakes already, they will still overbid on a small available part.

All what this will create is a high INITIAL price, NEM will skyrocket and then collapse to what people are willing to invest (long term).
Of course this initial high price will always happen, but to auction of a small part of NEM will only amplify things.

EDIT: I think we should stick to the first plan and distribute the stakes to the people in the waiting list. That will create the most fair start for everyone.

[patmast3r]

No, it doesn't. 800 NXT != 0.8 BTC.

Well... The idea makes sense maybe not the math...

My vision:

I think you all expect way to much of this auction.

A high price at auction has no effect on the WHOLE batch of NEM.
Reason why it will fetch a high price is of the low amount of stakes being sold.

Imagine:

- We put 5 stakes up for auction
- 10 stakes
- 100 stakes
- 120 stakes

Which stakes do you think will fetch the highest prices?
Now think of what happens when ALL of the 3 billion NEM potentially comes available on an exchange...

Even if people know there are 3000 stakes already, they will still overbid on a small available part.

All what this will create is a high INITIAL price, NEM will skyrocket and then collapse to what people are willing to invest (long term).
Of course this initial high price will always happen, but to auction of a small part of NEM will only amplify things.

EDIT: I think we should stick to the first plan and distribute the stakes to the people in the waiting list. That will create the most fair start for everyone.

The auction is just a way for more people to join in. As you said the high initial price will happen anyway so I don't think the auction will have a huge effect on that.
We are sticking to the original plan. There are also stakes allocated to go to the waitinglist.

[nxtvisa]

Now the market downturn, hoping to get a high market value, may not be realistic. could  be 1 NEM stake=  5BTC

[mikesbmw]

My vision:

I think you all expect way to much of this auction.

A high price at auction has no effect on the WHOLE batch of NEM.
Reason why it will fetch a high price is of the low amount of stakes being sold.

Imagine:

- We put 5 stakes up for auction
- 10 stakes
- 100 stakes
- 120 stakes

Which stakes do you think will fetch the highest prices?
Now think of what happens when ALL of the 3 billion NEM potentially comes available on an exchange...

Even if people know there are 3000 stakes already, they will still overbid on a small available part.

All what this will create is a high INITIAL price, NEM will skyrocket and then collapse to what people are willing to invest (long term).
Of course this initial high price will always happen, but to auction of a small part of NEM will only amplify things.

EDIT: I think we should stick to the first plan and distribute the stakes to the people in the waiting list. That will create the most fair start for everyone.

The auction is just a way for more people to join in. As you said the high initial price will happen anyway so I don't think the auction will have a huge effect on that.
We are sticking to the original plan. There are also stakes allocated to go to the waitinglist.

Wasn't the real initial plan to distribute the sockpuppet stakes to the people on the waiting list?

[xlcus]

is there any timetable for releasing some product?

See more and more NXT clones being out. Any progress on NEM?