[NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread

[xtester]

I agree with UtopianFuture.

When thinking about the multipool, the big value factor is that we finally have a way to appeal and integrate an important part of the crypto community: the miners. In addition to that I suppose the buying price pressure would always be welcomed.

Also agree that green should definitely be changed to network efficiency.

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[Gaman]

Guys, what do you think will be the price of NEM at auction.  Please don't post a high price because you own NEM but instead think at what price are you willing to buy in?

[MrPortMan]

Guys, what do you think will be the price of NEM at auction.  Please don't post a high price because you own NEM but instead think at what price are you willing to buy in?

Market cap Nem will 250 M USD. 1 NEM = 0.07 USD. Price 0.07 USD.

[Spider]

Guys, what do you think will be the price of NEM at auction.  Please don't post a high price because you own NEM but instead think at what price are you willing to buy in?

[makoto1337]

Do multipools kill the coins being mined?

A large pool can jump into a small coin, raise the difficulty level really high, and then jump out.  The remaining miners at that point have a hard time forming new blocks because the difficulty is so high.  

Recently a trend has started that some mulitpools will not only get a lot of coins while raising the difficulty, but then they will buy out the whole buy wall, in effect "dumping" what they earned.  These people then buy a POS coin that they are supporting.  It hurts the regular bitcoin and litecoin clones while helping the POS coins.  The POS coins can't be mined back so they aren't vulnerable.  Now while this trend has started, it is still very small and hasn't had an effect yet, but if it gets large enough, it will reach a tipping point and any miner that wants to make money will have to join in the multipools mining indirectly for POS coins.  So basically people that are pro POS could buy miners and then in theory ban together and kill POW coins.  It hasn't happened though.    

but it will.. and the sooner we kill off pow coins the better! (less energy usage)

if we dont and let them run their course.. they will be running for far longer and use allot more energy.. i see this getting really big and multipools popping up everywhere.. the coins that can will change to pos to save them selves and whats left are the larger ones like btc and ltc that cannot change.. all the multipools will be aimed at those and will slowly take them down.. and their wont be anything they can do about it.. it will take a while to get to that stage but i honestly think it is in the best interest of every pos coin to make a multipool and help crush the pow coins..

 imagine the energy we would save if all pow coins were gone and only btc and ltc were left.. which will happen! more so if btc goes through another massive boom! there are only benefits to running multipools.. the only negative iv herd is that it would make nem non-green.. not true.. if anything we are helping kill off the non-green coins before they get to mine all their coins and put an end to them before they use all the power needed to mine them... which actually makes nem an eco worrior(not just green.. but fighting to put and end to non-green coins)!

you should market the pool as being an eco worrior helping to rid the crypto world of all the energy hungry coins so that ALL cryptos can be energy efficient.. the pool slogan: NemPool: putting an end to power hungry PoW for a better tomorrow. imagine what will happen when the multipools crush most the smaller coins and turn towards bitcoin.. by then they will have massive hashing power and could be able to compete with the big time btc miners! and once the big boys see what we are doing they will then see that ltc/btc are doomed due to this and jump ship over to pos(more then likely the most inovative ones at the time being nem/nxt) meaning ltc and btc value gets transfered to us! the more people that move to multipool the more power we have the more we crush pow then more miners will come and keep going until we completely distroy all pow coins! ending with nem nxt being top 1 and 2 on coin market cap!

 now you tell me that isnt more green then not doing it and letting these pow coins happily mine away using insane amounts of power for years and years.. its by far in our best interest to crush them with everything we got and multipools are our most powerfull weapons! use them! or someone else will!

pat i know you are against the idea but is their any way we can sway you to the pro multipool side? we can get the pool running now and it will get allot of attention.. a coin running a pool before its even launched. that will get allot of attention.. but market it as an eco worrior.. the gains it will give to nem is a side effect! its a win win!

and pat it would look allot better if we have the devs on board with this.. the community wont look divided on the matter.. i think the support of the devs on this matter is important!

and it will show how much faith people have in the devs ability to actualy release nem and all its features! further solidifying the idea that nem is the next big thing!

I'm more inclined to lean towards no multipool i'm afraid. I'm also not fond of the idea of pushing nem as an "Eco friendly" coin.

Although it is greener, i don't think that should be the primary focus point in advertising - the green argument is a tired, cliched one, and if anything, environmentalists and other such movements have more of a stigma than anything else, which, for the most part, is largely justified. (When you consider their aggressive/facist tatics of getting their political agenda across)

Environmentalists are as bad as the liberal, left wing movements who, in the UK, are becoming more and more despised the more people uncover how much they've dominated the political and corporal scene.

Anywhoo, thats another subject entirely; what I will say is though, yes, NEM is much greener, PoW is unsustainable due to it's energy requirements (This is why i invest in PoS), but i don't think pushing NEM as a "green alternative" is in any way beneficial for itself in the long run. People are sick of that argument.

Also keep in mind that the resources we spend towards supporting a multipool are resources that we can't spend doing other things

[makoto1337]

I'm more inclined to lean towards no multipool i'm afraid. I'm also not fond of the idea of pushing nem as an "Eco friendly" coin.

Although it is greener, i don't think that should be the primary focus point in advertising - the green argument is a tired, cliched one, and if anything, environmentalists and other such movements have more of a stigma than anything else, which, for the most part, is largely justified.

yes you have a good point there.. but if you dont think the whole green marketing thing should be a big thing then i dont see the issue in running a multipool.. the only argument against it iv seen is that it would make nem non-green.. or is there another reason you are against it..?

I've a very vague understanding of multipool, but my preference is it's probably best we don't tamper with something we've not even got out the door yet. This is just my stance - yet i'm open minded enough to reconsider my stance the more I understand how multipool works.

ok you have conventional mining of proof of work coins to generate coins from blocks which uses allot of energy but energy usage varies from coin to coin.. bitcoins uses an astonishing amount of power and really it does nothing usefull other then mining coins by doing pointless math problems..

pos doesnt mine as such... every transaction pays a small fee.. all transactions with in a certain amount of time get collected in a block which a forger the confirms the transactions same as pow but they get the transaction fees instead of creating new coins. and because you dont have to do pointless math problems its far greener and any one can forge on any computer and their wont be hashing power wars like their are in pow...

what a multipool does is mine pow coins the same as it you were mining it directly but when they mine they collect up all the coins that they have mined(normally the most profitable) and then sell those coins on an exchange and then buy the proof of stake coin which they are realy "mining" for.. in our case nem.. so basically its just mining other coins, selling them and buying the pos coin(nem)

but in our case nem isnt launched.. so what im suggesting is to run the pool mining other coins and selling for btc.. but nem is launched.. so stock pile the btc earned and keep track of how much btc each person has mined and come launch we will have a huge amount of btc buying power to drop a mega amount of buying power on nem. what i suspect will happen is the pool will get allot of notice from people and articles written because we launched a pool so early before coins launch thus bring in more people to nem. everyone who follows this sort of thing will know we are guna have mega buying power so they will want to buy in before the pool buys all its coins and sends the price through the roof!

You make a compelling argument.

As far as i understand, multipools make up the majority of hashing power across PoW. From my experience, it was the multipools that in often cases caused sudden difficulty/hashing rate spikes in new coins once the multipools adopted them. As far as I could see, multipools were both PoW's strength, but more a weakness. A PoS coin like NEM could take advantage of them, at a lesser risk.

I see what you're saying now, and honestly, i understand where you're coming from. It does sound like a decent idea to me; I would like to know what UP thinks of this along with the rest of the devs.

What i do want to ask (To anyone who has an answer); has this been done before? If so, what (PoS) coin, and what was the outcome?

If it hasn't been done before, this might be a very good idea indeed.

case and point! multipools will kill pow whether we get on board or not so why not get on board.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=568517.msg6354181#msg6354181

the only people objecting i think would be people who have invested in mining gear!

Yeah, i admit during the brief period i was focused on PoW related coins, the idea of multipools was an ominous one, especially in light of the 51% attacks and such.

It has been done before. I think NXT has a multipool allthough I'm not sure it's already operational.

AFAIK UP came up with the idea initially so he should be on board. No idea what the rest of the devs think.

I am not against a multipool. I am not just not sure of all the steps involved to support it.

[patmast3r]

Just to clear this up. I wasn't argueing against a multipool with the "green argument" so we can market NEM as green.
I'm argueing against it because I think we shouldn't support the waste of energy regardless of how we market ourselfs.

How does this sounds:

Step 1: Hey let's build a new economy for a better future.
Step 2: Hey let's waste some energy to stabilize the currency of that new economy.

To me it sounds like a move of the old economy. 

I think it'd be cool to only support coins that actually use their mining process for something like PeerCoin and GridCoin.
Trying to find prime numbers and supporting scientists in curing cancer, aids and what not seems more appealing than calculating useless hashes.

[UtopianBurst]

nem is a clever scam

[patmast3r]

nem is a clever scam

You're cute.

[Gaman]

First, i dont think NEM market cap can reach 250m.  More like 10 million to be more realistic.

At 10 million.... a 1million nem would be worth: 10million$ / 4billion  * 1m shares per stake = $2500 or 5 btc.

[okaynow]

on the multipool issue, i dont think it will do much good.
Maybe the "buy support" souds nice and warm, but buy support does not come from proceeds made by pools.

Strong buy support will have to be setup by us.
There are more profitable coins for multipools if one were to look for that.

This idea that Pat threw on the table sounds nice

I think it'd be cool to only support coins that actually use their mining process for something like PeerCoin and GridCoin.
Trying to find prime numbers and supporting scientists in curing cancer, aids and what not seems more appealing than calculating useless hashes.

[louie6925]

When will people on the waiting list know if they have a chance of getting some NEM?

[jnuqsx]

First, i dont think NEM market cap can reach 250m.  More like 10 million to be more realistic.

At 10 million.... a 1million nem would be worth: 10million$ / 4billion  * 1m shares per stake = $2500 or 5 btc.

I think the technology roadmap is finished, is worth more than this, many BTC

[Simakki]

First, i dont think NEM market cap can reach 250m.  More like 10 million to be more realistic.

At 10 million.... a 1million nem would be worth: 10million$ / 4billion  * 1m shares per stake = $2500 or 5 btc.

I think the technology roadmap is finished, is worth more than this, many BTC

Market cap will depends on many different factors and important ones are NEM's technology, power of the community and future promises, but market cap will strongly depends crypto markets in genaral. If btc goes up surge in upcoming months that will surely push whole markets to uptrend and so on.

As for 10 million market cap, have you looked others alts that have or had that big cap, i can clearly see NEM more innovative than those pure clones.

[Gaman]

Yes. I can clearly see NEM more innovative than the PoS coins!  10 million market cap is easily reachable.  I predict next week's auction bid price would be at least 1 btc per stake!

[hedywsd]

Yes. I can clearly see NEM more innovative than the PoS coins!  10 million market cap is easily reachable.  I predict next week's auction bid price would be at least 1 btc per stake!

I expect it is going to come true !

[Gaman]

utopianfuture, are we allowed to buy stake from others?  and then you change on your records to the person who bought?

[Djentriser]

Yes. I can clearly see NEM more innovative than the PoS coins!  10 million market cap is easily reachable.  I predict next week's auction bid price would be at least 1 btc per stake!

I expect it is going to come true !

I have already seen people offering 5 BTC for stake of NEM.

[dzarmush]

Yes. I can clearly see NEM more innovative than the PoS coins!  10 million market cap is easily reachable.  I predict next week's auction bid price would be at least 1 btc per stake!

I expect it is going to come true !

I have already seen people offering 5 BTC for stake of NEM.

Show me that guy 

[btler420]

To UF:

I saw some of my clients on the refund list.

These are people I know in my personal life and I recommended investing in NEM for them.

I acted as a broker for them because they are not very knowledgeable about crypto or advanced in PC use.

They have already paid me fiat for their stake and were patiently waiting for me to update them on the status of the coin.

They are as follows:

nateM7654
annT78
camaronloco
mich38754
eylucu4531
michaelW8796i

I had already talked to you prior to this to make sure it was ok to act as broker for other people who are not very aware of these forums/crypto coin scene.

And yes I did create an account for each because that's how you stated I should go about investing for them.

Here is your original response:

Yes that should be the way because your friend represents the new account. So make a new account for him and reserve a stake from that account. You can send NXT from the same address as well (maximum 2 stake per address).

1 NEM share would have > 1 million NEM. So there are many to share. No need to buy a lot of stakes. Thanks for supporting NEM.

Thank you for clearing this up.  I will get to it as soon as possible.

For the greedy it might be good for a while, but they will always lose out in the end. That's my philosophy and experience.

stop lying you motherfucker. nice try to get multiple shares idiot