[NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread

[upekha]

just simple question- when will be any Alfa or anything for us- after week, month or year???
because after many months we have just bla,bla,bla...and auction instead of just give people from waiting list stakes...
IT'S REALLY VERY PITY!!!

It is coming soon (weeks not months or years). There is a choice that does not involve complaining for anyone who loses patience as well.

better take years, and make NEM a succes, than hurrying!!

[1714216418]

1714216418

[1714216418]

1714216418

[j23a]

just simple question- when will be any Alfa or anything for us- after week, month or year???
because after many months we have just bla,bla,bla...and auction instead of just give people from waiting list stakes...
IT'S REALLY VERY PITY!!!

The way you go it's just been bla, bla, bla, as if the devs can just snap their fingers and create a finish product. The people involved should not worry themselves with people who can't wait for things, who can't understand that things just don't happen willy nilly, which is a term I've never used, and demand instant satisfaction. Sorry for the bluntness, but if someone's way of thinking is flawed, then bluntness is best for them. Constructive criticism.

[mr smith]

UP, Pat, rest of Devs, and community,

Can we start an official Buy/Sell thread for the dumpers right now?

Let's get those that just want to dump their stake out of the way right now.

Thoughts??

Interesting idea I'm just pretty sure it wouldn't work. Maybe you can weed out a few but there are smarter dumpsters that dump periodically to get the most out of it.
Still interested to see what the rest thinks
We could give that a try.

Well, we could at least get the stakeholders that care the least out of the movement now.

This is something i mentioned some time ago. It could be a little to late for that now.
How do you put a price on a stake, someone said he wanted to buy all stakes for 1BTC
if anyone was selling. Maybe an ego thing who knows !
My back pockets not that deep on multiples. I do think stakeholders that want to sell be given that outlet within the NEM community first. Perhaps they could be allowed to auction stakes by forward request so the market dictates the price.

Another feeler - If a bunch of Nemsters with a few spare BTC clubbed together we could buy some stakes for a non profit use.

Down the line in a few months, when someone really liked NEM but did not have funds and say had marketing skills. We could give them an opportunity for active participation = you can buy a full stake at last donation price 0.75BTC or what we paid when recipient has shown input decided by the group.

How it would work, who would be chosen and recipients input could be thought out. I understand bounties and give a ways by the dev's but this maybe doable by the community, any left over refund stakes would help out.
Imagine 10,20 such people pushing NEM, it would also have a marketing +

Any thoughts, it's getting dark am i barking mad !

[Schnitz]

just simple question- when will be any Alfa or anything for us- after week, month or year???
because after many months we have just bla,bla,bla...and auction instead of just give people from waiting list stakes...
IT'S REALLY VERY PITY!!!

The way you go it's just been bla, bla, bla, as if the devs can just snap their fingers and create a finish product. The people involved should not worry themselves with people who can't wait for things, who can't understand that things just don't happen nilly willy, which is a term I've never used, and demand instant satisfaction. Sorry for the bluntness, but if someone's way of thinking is flawed, then bluntness is best for them. Constructive criticism.

That´s right. Just wait and see.

[Fatih87SK]

A reminder for you all.

Change your password into a strong one. 

[shaman2000]

just simple question- when will be any Alfa or anything for us- after week, month or year???
because after many months we have just bla,bla,bla...and auction instead of just give people from waiting list stakes...
IT'S REALLY VERY PITY!!!

The way you go it's just been bla, bla, bla, as if the devs can just snap their fingers and create a finish product. The people involved should not worry themselves with people who can't wait for things, who can't understand that things just don't happen willy nilly, which is a term I've never used, and demand instant satisfaction. Sorry for the bluntness, but if someone's way of thinking is flawed, then bluntness is best for them. Constructive criticism.

I've just asked when are we going to have alfa, guys, it was just simple question-why you thinking that this is way to do the flaw???
Relax man! we are together  in one board! words from my side about bla,bla bla as well was ''Constructive criticism'' -wasn't it???
and how I can help now to the our community now if I'm not a programmer? I will help with my pleasure!!!!
cheers

[xtester]

I think a fair starting price for each stake is between 0.2-0.5 BTC. The stakes for the waiting list guys will be 0.1 BTC, so a 0.2 BTC starting price seems fair to me.

But fairness doesn't seem to have a clear meaning in this situation.

Fairness relative to what, to buyers or to the devs and community who put a lot of hard work into this?

The call to participation was 1st phase to get in, waiting list is 2nd phase and auction is whole different matter.

With the auction we should aim to prepare for the market and set a real price for the stakes. The call for participation and auction should not be put together and compared because they are different things with different purpose.

Anyway, I would be very interested to hear Utopians view on this matter.

One question. If you auction 2 identical Macbook on Ebay at the same time, which one will yield higher price ? the one set up with a no reserve auction or the one set up with a 1000$ reserved auction ?

Interesting question. I think the answer here may depend a lot on the product at hand. If it is a Macbook, given the brand Apple has build, the product may indeed sell even better without a starting price. But that is not because the starting price is the most important factor, but rather, as I said, due to the great brand Apple has built and the strong demand that exists for their products. Indeed, I think the absence of a starting price when a great brand and enough demand exist, would gather a lot more people around an auction simply because the auction will feed their impression that they could buy a high value product for a cheap price, even though in the end they may pay more than they would have if the price was fixed.

So the natural question that arises now is do we have a strong enough brand to benefit from an absence of price or should we start with at least half the price we would expect to be minimum, as a safety precaution?

I was also thinking about Nassim Taleb's(some of you may be familiar to his ideas) antifragility theory and I think our aim should be to create an antifragile or at least resilient/robust market. Meaning that we should not fear the dumpers, but take them into account and even encourage(incentivize) them to get it over with as soon as possible. In fact, there may be some people who have received a stake but don't intend to help or keep it and so through this natural selection process the real supporters hold and contribute to the value of the movement while the dumpers exit and help us grow even faster by decreasing the risk to big dumping happening further down the road.

I agree. Our initial thought is to offer the first auction on the Alpha release to avoid scam accusation and we will take some times to build the brand up to that point. The likely method of auction is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiunit_auction. We will write a more detail guidelines at least one week before the auction but that's something everyone can study first if they are interested in the auction. Uniform auction have been used for U.S Treasury auctions. You can read about the theories and empirical studies of this type of auction here http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/fin-mkts/Documents/final.pdf  and here http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/fin-mkts/Documents/upas2.pdf

Utopianfuture, are you familiar with the work of Taleb? (The Black Swan and Antifragile)

If you are interested in economics I assume you have heard of him. If not, I urge you, this is a person you cannot afford not to read. He is simply too good to be ignored if you are interested in science, philosophy, economics, etc.

If you read him, just let me know what you think.

[gimre]

I'm looking forward for testing an alpha version
and if i'm able to do to setup a NEM-Node

thx for the amazing project

Let me spread some rumors: in alpha you actually will HAVE to run the node. (but phear not, it should take single click to start both NIS and NCC)

[gemini22]

I think a fair starting price for each stake is between 0.2-0.5 BTC. The stakes for the waiting list guys will be 0.1 BTC, so a 0.2 BTC starting price seems fair to me.

But fairness doesn't seem to have a clear meaning in this situation.

Fairness relative to what, to buyers or to the devs and community who put a lot of hard work into this?

The call to participation was 1st phase to get in, waiting list is 2nd phase and auction is whole different matter.

With the auction we should aim to prepare for the market and set a real price for the stakes. The call for participation and auction should not be put together and compared because they are different things with different purpose.

Anyway, I would be very interested to hear Utopians view on this matter.

One question. If you auction 2 identical Macbook on Ebay at the same time, which one will yield higher price ? the one set up with a no reserve auction or the one set up with a 1000$ reserved auction ?

Interesting question. I think the answer here may depend a lot on the product at hand. If it is a Macbook, given the brand Apple has build, the product may indeed sell even better without a starting price. But that is not because the starting price is the most important factor, but rather, as I said, due to the great brand Apple has built and the strong demand that exists for their products. Indeed, I think the absence of a starting price when a great brand and enough demand exist, would gather a lot more people around an auction simply because the auction will feed their impression that they could buy a high value product for a cheap price, even though in the end they may pay more than they would have if the price was fixed.

So the natural question that arises now is do we have a strong enough brand to benefit from an absence of price or should we start with at least half the price we would expect to be minimum, as a safety precaution?

I was also thinking about Nassim Taleb's(some of you may be familiar to his ideas) antifragility theory and I think our aim should be to create an antifragile or at least resilient/robust market. Meaning that we should not fear the dumpers, but take them into account and even encourage(incentivize) them to get it over with as soon as possible. In fact, there may be some people who have received a stake but don't intend to help or keep it and so through this natural selection process the real supporters hold and contribute to the value of the movement while the dumpers exit and help us grow even faster by decreasing the risk to big dumping happening further down the road.

I agree. Our initial thought is to offer the first auction on the Alpha release to avoid scam accusation and we will take some times to build the brand up to that point. The likely method of auction is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiunit_auction. We will write a more detail guidelines at least one week before the auction but that's something everyone can study first if they are interested in the auction. Uniform auction have been used for U.S Treasury auctions. You can read about the theories and empirical studies of this type of auction here http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/fin-mkts/Documents/final.pdf  and here http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/fin-mkts/Documents/upas2.pdf

Utopianfuture, are you familiar with the work of Taleb? (The Black Swan and Antifragile)

If you are interested in economics I assume you have heard of him. If not, I urge you, this is a person you cannot afford not to read. He is simply too good to be ignored if you are interested in science, philosophy, economics, etc.

If you read him, just let me know what you think.

Nassim Nicholas Taleb. +1

[Thingamajig]

My biggest problem with the sale of stakes is it goes against the original principles of the coins IPO. Because odds are a fair number of already existent stakeholders will attempt to buy in more stakes (Say, those who created sockpuppets), making the coin far less distributed. This is not good news and really tarnishes what was otherwise a good start.

it's a pity we didn't have an IPO whereby stakeholders received their coins gradually rather than in one whole lump sum, this way, dumping is a near null concern and it'll also stop any sort of co-ordinated market manipulation. However, this doesn't trouble me much at all mainly because we've already got a vast number of stakeholders already, which suffices enough as far as i'm concerned.

[makoto1337]

227 pages!
thing goes well

      [NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread « 1 2 ... 226 227 »   utopianfuture    4537replies    92078views   Today at 10:28:35 AM


Go,go,go.....          100,000views

1 months
    [NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread « 1 2 ... 332 333 »    utopianfuture    6658replies    141358 views

Go,go,go.....          200,000views

This is amazing.

[makoto1337]

any safeguards against clones of nem planned? or will it even be needed?

The radiation in space will keep clones from joining us on the moon.

[makoto1337]

Todays cars are high tech products. But no one has to be an engineer to ride the car.
Just sit in and drive.
NEM should create a similar situation for the coin.
For people's widespread acceptance NEM handling should be possible for ordinary people.

Simple NEM handling should be the surface common people see.
Technical details may be interesting for experts.

I totally agree with this.

[makoto1337]

is anyone going to any of the bitcoin confrences?
https://bitcoin.org/en/events

what about auctioning off a handful of stakes live at the conference.. set up a stand.. explain nem and what the whole project is about to people and allow them to bid on stakes! (or partial stakes)

or you could just have a full blown stand up and yell bdbdbdbbdbdbdbd 1 bitcoin bdbdbd can i get 2 bdbdbdbd sold to the bitcoin junky in the back row! now that would draw attention lol

I hope some of use can attend some conferences once we launch/get close to launch.

[ShawnLeary]

is anyone going to any of the bitcoin confrences?
https://bitcoin.org/en/events

what about auctioning off a handful of stakes live at the conference.. set up a stand.. explain nem and what the whole project is about to people and allow them to bid on stakes! (or partial stakes)

or you could just have a full blown stand up and yell bdbdbdbbdbdbdbd 1 bitcoin bdbdbd can i get 2 bdbdbdbd sold to the bitcoin junky in the back row! now that would draw attention lol

I hope some of use can attend some conferences once we launch/get close to launch.

This sounds like a fun time. 

[ShawnLeary]

227 pages!
thing goes well

      [NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread « 1 2 ... 226 227 »   utopianfuture    4537replies    92078views   Today at 10:28:35 AM


Go,go,go.....          100,000views

1 months
    [NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread « 1 2 ... 332 333 »    utopianfuture    6658replies    141358 views

Go,go,go.....          200,000views

This is amazing.

NAS at a marketcap of nearly $400k.  Let's be conservative and say we at least match them and have 3000 stakeholders at launch sharing 90% of the coins, each of our stakes will be worth $120.  Let's say we crush the pre-marketing and this far into it we are over the $1M mark, that puts our stakes at $300. 

Could we be in the top 20 and start seeing 2M market cap?  Blow past VertCoin?  Then we will have stakes worth 1-2BTC

Is NEM the NxT killer?  Do we see that Doge like market caps of 50-75M.  There is no reason we couldn't.  stakes at point will be worth $15,000-20,000.

My prediction for the stake auction will be .25-.5 BTC.  Max of 1BTC.

[utopianfuture]

A litter update: I just sent out the first wave of invitation to the waiting list. You could see the new column of waiting list invitation in a separate tab in NEM final stakeholder list https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlidWok7hW0DdFRROFFGVUpwcFFXcHVCdGc0a3NuQVE&usp=drive_web#gid=6 ;

I do not invite any account with litter activity (less than 5 posts) and likely to be a sockpuppet. The first wave of invitations are sent  to Priority 1 group (senior members with more activity or with likely more contributions). Given the number of stakes reserved for the waiting list, Priority group 1 is guaranteed to get a stake if they want and all of Priority group 2 are still very likely to have a stake as well.

The works on refunding list are almost done and now we are one step closer to the ultimate final stakeholder list. Stay tuned in the thread for more updates and the coming Alpha release. Thanks.

[gsxrl3oi]

Im so excited and I just cant hide it. 

[Swalters]

any safeguards against clones of nem planned? or will it even be needed?

The radiation in space will keep clones from joining us on the moon.

Are you hinting that NEM has a "radiation shield"?

[dylan123]

A litter update: I just sent out the first wave of invitation to the waiting list. You could see the new column of waiting list invitation in a separate tab in NEM final stakeholder list https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlidWok7hW0DdFRROFFGVUpwcFFXcHVCdGc0a3NuQVE&usp=drive_web#gid=6 ;

I do not invite any account with litter activity (less than 5 posts) and likely to be a sockpuppet. The first wave of invitations are sent  to Priority 1 group (senior members with more activity or with likely more contributions). Given the number of stakes reserved for the waiting list, Priority group 1 is guaranteed to get a stake if they want and all of Priority group 2 are still very likely to have a stake as well.

The works on refunding list are almost done and now we are one step closer to the ultimate final stakeholder list. Stay tuned in the thread for more updates and the coming Alpha release. Thanks.

another step,good job