Test Cricket Prediction and Discussion Thread [self - mod]

[Juggy777]

@JSRAW So looks like the reasons for Darren Bravo, Shimron Hetmyer and Keemo Paul backing off from the ENG is related to family concerns in this Pandemic situation. Keemo Paul seems to be the sole breadwinner for a big family and he is not comfortable leaving them in this situation. Hetmeyer seems to be not comfortable with the family's safety when he leaves the country. Bravo seems to have concerns about his health and its further consequences. So ultimately it's the Corona Pandemic which made them quit the tour.

More info here - Why West Indies Trio pulled out of ENG tour

^^Fair enough , no one can argue with that if players are not feeling comfortable due to pandemic and family concern are genuine. Test match don't pay that much amount anyway so its understandable, good part is Windies board not making any fuss over this one.

@akhjob in my personal opinion they have every right to pull out of this tour, as the situation in England has yet not improved, also it’ll be really interesting to see how the player’s plan to keep the ball shining without using their saliva. @JSRAW I’ll agree for a change the West Indies board didn’t create a scene, and this situation was amicably resolved.

Source:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-8351527/England-stars-told-not-sweat-saliva-ball-return-action-plan.html

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/coronavirus-updates-live-lockdown-pandemic-22141698

[1714689172]

1714689172

[akhjob]

@akhjob in my personal opinion they have every right to pull out of this tour, as the situation in England has yet not improved, also it’ll be really interesting to see how the player’s plan to keep the ball shining without using their saliva.

I too am not judging their decisions to quit from the tour and they have every right to be with their family during this Pandemic condition. Heck, I too have stopped going to Office and applied for leave starting this month once the Indian Govt lifted the lockdown because of family concerns. So I definitely don't mind if the WI players decided to stay with their families.
Regarding shining the ball, they better start to learn to swing the ball without the use of sweat or saliva I even read an article about Srilankan bowlers claiming that sweat is not as effective as Saliva. Guess, if they knew that they aren't allowed to use sweat either, they would have a heartbreak.

[Vishnu.Reang]

^^Fair enough , no one can argue with that if players are not feeling comfortable due to pandemic and family concern are genuine. Test match don't pay that much amount anyway so its understandable, good part is Windies board not making any fuss over this one.

The infection rates are going down, and while I respect the decision by these players, I would not be supporting it. My question is, if the IPL was scheduled instead of the bilateral series, would these players still stay at home and forfeit the salary? West Indies cricket is not in a good state now. They need to win consistently against the Big 3. Nowadays, they are even struggling to get an automatic qualification for the ODI world cup.

[Tipstar]

^^Fair enough , no one can argue with that if players are not feeling comfortable due to pandemic and family concern are genuine. Test match don't pay that much amount anyway so its understandable, good part is Windies board not making any fuss over this one.

The infection rates are going down, and while I respect the decision by these players, I would not be supporting it. My question is, if the IPL was scheduled instead of the bilateral series, would these players still stay at home and forfeit the salary? West Indies cricket is not in a good state now. They need to win consistently against the Big 3. Nowadays, they are even struggling to get an automatic qualification for the ODI world cup.

Rate of new infections might decreased but the infections are not going down in most places. And test matches would be much more difficult to organize technically as all of those players needs to stay and play for days. Test cricket is much different from IPL. IPL is a money machine while viewership of test matches are record low. They might cancel every matches to go with IPL as they have the best TV viewership.

[Haunebu]

What do you guys think of the Saliva ban recommendation? The ICC could probably implement it in order to fight Corona, but this would become a huge disadvantage to bowlers.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports.ndtv.com/cricket/will-saliva-ban-threaten-crickets-kings-of-swing-2242053%3famp=1&akamai-rum=off

West Indies cricket is not in a good state now. They need to win consistently against the Big 3. Nowadays, they are even struggling to get an automatic qualification for the ODI world cup.

Should Cricket be given a higher priority than life in this instance? What if the player and their family gets infected by the virus? Health should always be the first priority.

[Indymoney]

What do you guys think of the Saliva ban recommendation? The ICC could probably implement it in order to fight Corona, but this would become a huge disadvantage to bowlers.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports.ndtv.com/cricket/will-saliva-ban-threaten-crickets-kings-of-swing-2242053%3famp=1&akamai-rum=off

West Indies cricket is not in a good state now. They need to win consistently against the Big 3. Nowadays, they are even struggling to get an automatic qualification for the ODI world cup.

Should Cricket be given a higher priority than life in this instance? What if the player and their family gets infected by the virus? Health should always be the first priority.

Health is first priority for all even not only for players for all so if someone is not happy with situation and want to stay at home with family its good for him and family because family came first for all.

[Vishnu.Reang]

Should Cricket be given a higher priority than life in this instance? What if the player and their family gets infected by the virus? Health should always be the first priority.

I never said that. I was just pointing out that the West Indies players always give a lower priority to national duty. And in turn, this is having a negative impact on the prospects of the West Indies national team. What I was saying was these same players would have chosen to play the IPL, if it was scheduled for next month instead of the test series.

[7788bitcoin]

What do you guys think of the Saliva ban recommendation? The ICC could probably implement it in order to fight Corona, but this would become a huge disadvantage to bowlers.

If cricket is resuming then i assume that all the players will be tested and if that is the case then there is no point in banning the use of saliva to polish the ball which is really important for a bowler, looks like everyone is paranoid and they are impulsive to come up with rules for no reason. It is discussed earlier and some were happy that an unhygienic practice is banned .

[JSRAW]

What do you guys think of the Saliva ban recommendation? The ICC could probably implement it in order to fight Corona, but this would become a huge disadvantage to bowlers.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports.ndtv.com/cricket/will-saliva-ban-threaten-crickets-kings-of-swing-2242053%3famp=1&akamai-rum=off

This recommendation news is bit old at least 1 month, New update came couple of weeks back. I am okay with saliva ban (due to Covid-19 precaution)  as long as they are providing alternate option to keep shine on ball, so that bowlers can compete against the batsmen.

Official announcement coming from the ICC - No use of Saliva-
They come up with 2 extra announcement as far as cricket is concern.
- Relaxation on neutral umpire rules as International flights are limited due to Covid-19.
- Extra DRS for every team in each innings.

ICC cricket committee dissuades use of saliva to shine ball

[Vishnu.Reang]

^^^ It is surprising that you think the bowlers are not capable of taking wickets without the usage of saliva. Only a minority of the bowlers use saliva or any other substance to get swing. There are a lot of good bowlers who can swing the ball naturally, just using the ground conditions. Usage of saliva puts these bowlers at a severe disadvantage.

[JSRAW]

^^^ It is surprising that you think the bowlers are not capable of taking wickets without the usage of saliva. Only a minority of the bowlers use saliva or any other substance to get swing. There are a lot of good bowlers who can swing the ball naturally, just using the ground conditions. Usage of saliva puts these bowlers at a severe disadvantage.

1. Bowler use conventional swing when ball is new (inswing -outswing). Seam is important part as it creates turbulence and helps in conventional swing, new ball looks like this.


2. After inning progress ball gets old and tears off so players use saliva and sweat for shining (One side of the ball) from the start. So that they can get this result.


3. That's how swing works when bowl gets old let's say 40-50 overs


Why this unhygienic saliva technique is used? because if ball is rough from the both side then there will be no swing whatsoever for the fast bowlers in the test cricket no matter if you are Akram or Macgrath, that means no competition. in short shining the ball is very much needed, if ICC authorize alternate option for this then all good otherwise its bad move.

PS : Never put "shining the ball" and "tempering the ball" at the same bracket as both are different things, Ball tempering happens when players disturbs rough part of the ball (Warner-Smith saga) or intentionally remove the seam(rare)

[Vishnu.Reang]

PS : Never put "shining the ball" and "tempering the ball" at the same bracket as both are different things, Ball tempering happens when players disturbs rough part of the ball (Warner-Smith saga) or intentionally remove the seam(rare)

This is where I always get in to fight with you. Nowhere in the laws of cricket, it is written that saliva is permissible. As per the laws, all forms of ball tampering is illegal. Now the laws are being interpreted in a way, to make saliva legal and other substances such as vaseline and sandpaper illegal. Let the ICC update this contentious rule. Let them specify that saliva is permitted and other substances are not.

Anyway the ICC makes new rules and update the old ones every now and then.

[JSRAW]

PS : Never put "shining the ball" and "tempering the ball" at the same bracket as both are different things, Ball tempering happens when players disturbs rough part of the ball (Warner-Smith saga) or intentionally remove the seam(rare)

This is where I always get in to fight with you. Nowhere in the laws of cricket, it is written that saliva is permissible. As per the laws, all forms of ball tampering is illegal. Now the laws are being interpreted in a way, to make saliva legal and other substances such as vaseline and sandpaper illegal. Let the ICC update this contentious rule. Let them specify that saliva is permitted and other substances are not.

Anyway the ICC makes new rules and update the old ones every now and then.

Its true that there is no mention of Saliva in the rule book but shining the ball is allowed according to the rules, players can't use additional substance tho (Ex : Jelly beans) and its mutual understanding among all teams and ICC that players can use Saliva for shining.

Don't you think that every rule in cricket already favoring the batsmen and by banning this option they are literally crippling the bowlers? I wouldn't mind if they ban this or not but if they are doing it then they should also consider (1)2-3 bouncers in every over, (2)make minimum boundary size atleast 70 cm, (3) reduce the width of the bat. Give bowlers some chance to compete in modern cricket if not then use bowling machine instead of treating fast bowlers as cheap labours .

[7788bitcoin]

^^^ It is surprising that you think the bowlers are not capable of taking wickets without the usage of saliva. Only a minority of the bowlers use saliva or any other substance to get swing. There are a lot of good bowlers who can swing the ball naturally, just using the ground conditions. Usage of saliva puts these bowlers at a severe disadvantage.

There are different factors that aide the swing, why do you think it is impossible to swing the ball in subcontinent conditions until the ball gets old, when you take a global approach a minority is playing cricket but anyone who plays cricket with a leather ball they use saliva to shine to ball.

Hope you are aware that you are not able to use any other objects to clean the ball other than saliva and it is not a new phenomena and if you ban the use the bowlers will be at an disadvantage.

~
PS : Never put "shining the ball" and "tempering the ball" at the same bracket as both are different things, Ball tempering happens when players disturbs rough part of the ball (Warner-Smith saga) or intentionally remove the seam(rare)

It is a good demonstration on how swing works, i do not understand why they have no idea about swing and what is the importance of shining one part of the ball.

~
This is where I always get in to fight with you. Nowhere in the laws of cricket, it is written that saliva is permissible. As per the laws, all forms of ball tampering is illegal. Now the laws are being interpreted in a way, to make saliva legal and other substances such as vaseline and sandpaper illegal. Let the ICC update this contentious rule. Let them specify that saliva is permitted and other substances are not.

Anyway the ICC makes new rules and update the old ones every now and then.

Hope you understand that the use of saliva is banned because of the Corona situation. The history of using saliva will be as long as they started playing cricket.

[JSRAW]

ICC already gave verdict on Saliva ban or any kind of additional substance for "Shine the ball". They went one step ahead by saying that repeated use of saliva will lead to 5 runs penalty to the fielding side.

Meanwhile...Tendulkar suggests use of new ball every 45-50 overs

[7788bitcoin]

ICC already gave verdict on Saliva ban or any kind of additional substance for "Shine the ball". They went one step ahead by saying that repeated use of saliva will lead to 5 runs penalty to the fielding side.

The camera will be focusing on seeing someone polishing the ball using saliva  . May be the third umpire will be monitoring all those activities to award 5 runs if they ever use saliva, hope they do not change the ball every time they think there is saliva in the ball  .
 

Meanwhile... Tendulkar suggests use of new ball every 45-50 overs[/b][/url]

We need to forget about reverse swing if they change the ball by 45 overs and with no way to shine the ball it is going to be difficult for the bowlers. Batsman might average 60 plus during these period.

[Vishnu.Reang]

ICC already gave verdict on Saliva ban or any kind of additional substance for "Shine the ball". They went one step ahead by saying that repeated use of saliva will lead to 5 runs penalty to the fielding side.

Meanwhile...Tendulkar suggests use of new ball every 45-50 overs

This is a temporary rule, or a permanent one? I hope that the saliva ban is a permanent one and the practice won't return after the COVID 19 pandemic gets contained in major cricket playing nations. Anyway, I am not sure whether this is practical. They need to monitor all the 11 fielders, and one person (the third umpire) may not be able to do that alone.

[Swordsoffreedom]

ICC already gave verdict on Saliva ban or any kind of additional substance for "Shine the ball". They went one step ahead by saying that repeated use of saliva will lead to 5 runs penalty to the fielding side.

Meanwhile...Tendulkar suggests use of new ball every 45-50 overs

This is a temporary rule, or a permanent one? I hope that the saliva ban is a permanent one and the practice won't return after the COVID 19 pandemic gets contained in major cricket playing nations. Anyway, I am not sure whether this is practical. They need to monitor all the 11 fielders, and one person (the third umpire) may not be able to do that alone.

The International Cricket Council (ICC) on Tuesday announced a temporary ban on the use of saliva on the ball before it resumes next month after a long shutdown.
A controversial rule change during the coronavirus epidemic could change the way cricket is played, as it will benefit the batsmen more. The bowlers had the advantage of swinging the ball with saliva.
Cricketers use saliva or sweat to shine on one side of a leather ball for long periods of time, helping fast bowlers to move in the air as well as create more swings in the air.

[JSRAW]

ICC already gave verdict on Saliva ban or any kind of additional substance for "Shine the ball". They went one step ahead by saying that repeated use of saliva will lead to 5 runs penalty to the fielding side.

The camera will be focusing on seeing someone polishing the ball using saliva  . May be the third umpire will be monitoring all those activities to award 5 runs if they ever use saliva, hope they do not change the ball every time they think there is saliva in the ball  .

Talked about this couple of time "Monitoring Players" in case of "Saliva ban" so quoting myself.

Normally, Polishing the ball job is fixed for Mid off,Mid on and covers fielders. Cameras already keeps eye on them but if this "Ball tampering rule" gets approval from the ICC then we can expect strict surveillance, like 10 cameras following the ball religiously from every angle including umpires, sounds logical to me.

Meanwhile... Tendulkar suggests use of new ball every 45-50 overs[/b][/url]

We need to forget about reverse swing if they change the ball by 45 overs and with no way to shine the ball it is going to be difficult for the bowlers. Batsman might average 60 plus during these period.

True, no reverse swing but New ball got its perks and if bowlers gets new ball after every 45-50 overs then they are very much in the game and on some case very lethal if fast bowlers are good.

This is a temporary rule, or a permanent one?

As far as i can tell its temporary due to pandemic.

[7788bitcoin]

~
Normally, Polishing the ball job is fixed for Mid off,Mid on and covers fielders. Cameras already keeps eye on them but if this "Ball tampering rule" gets approval from the ICC then we can expect strict surveillance, like 10 cameras following the ball religiously from every angle including umpires, sounds logical to me.

What ever it may be the situation everything is a bit messy, players will do some sort or the other to shine the ball and rewarding 5 runs under the assumption that they used saliva, to be frank it is a thin line.

Lets see what is going to happen and how many conservatory we are going to see regarding this. I am sure this will end up messy.

This is a temporary rule, or a permanent one?

As far as i can tell its temporary due to pandemic.

A rule set once set is hard to change but i am sure this is a temporary one.