Test Cricket Prediction and Discussion Thread [self - mod]

[Vishnu.Reang]

If they don't find a decent opportunity at home, then there is no option left for the players. They just cant stay in their country if they got the talent and outside world is willing to hire them for good rates.

It is a combination of many factors. Domestic teams are allowed only five (out of the 11) on the basis of merit. The remaining six players come from racial quota. On top of this, the number of domestic first class teams stand at just 6 in South Africa (for comparison, this is 18 in England and 37 in India). So only 30 white players can represent the domestic sides. Salaries are also quite low. South African domestic teams usually pay around 1/4th or 1/5th of the salary that the English county teams pay.

[1714699114]

1714699114

[1714699114]

1714699114

[Juggy777]

Its not that they lack talent, they have fair amount of talented players but their politics and racial drama #ucking everything for them.. Just look at the recent drama in CSA management, they are sacking CEO every now then and dragging each other into court rooms.

It is not just the racial tensions. I would rate the CSA as one of the most incompetent and corrupt cricket governance bodies among the test nations. They would even give the Zimbabwe board a run for their money in this regard. I agree that the talent is still there. But a lot of the younger South African players think that grabbing a European passport and going Kolpak is the only viable option they got.

If they don't find a decent opportunity at home, then there is no option left for the players. They just cant stay in their country if they got the talent and outside world is willing to hire them for good rates.

It is a combination of many factors. Domestic teams are allowed only five (out of the 11) on the basis of merit. The remaining six players come from racial quota. On top of this, the number of domestic first class teams stand at just 6 in South Africa (for comparison, this is 18 in England and 37 in India). So only 30 white players can represent the domestic sides. Salaries are also quite low. South African domestic teams usually pay around 1/4th or 1/5th of the salary that the English county teams pay.

@JSRAW yea CSA is messed up and it’s due to their colour based polices, that they have never been able to succeed for long spells in any format. Also I don’t blame the player’s for choosing to play for other countries, because they’re very well aware that they’ll never be picked due to their colour, and which player would like to waste his career by sitting on the sidelines?.

[JSRAW]

-------------

~edited out~
 But a lot of the younger South African players think that grabbing a European passport and going Kolpak is the only viable option they got.

Brexit might help in this case, some might still find loopholes tho..

It is a combination of many factors. Domestic teams are allowed only five (out of the 11) on the basis of merit. The remaining six players come from racial quota. On top of this, the number of domestic first class teams stand at just 6 in South Africa (for comparison, this is 18 in England and 37 in India). So only 30 white players can represent the domestic sides. Salaries are also quite low. South African domestic teams usually pay around 1/4th or 1/5th of the salary that the English county teams pay.

6 team in domestic cricket is way too low, similarly having 37 teams are over the top. looking at Indian domestic teams, if they managed to get their act together then they could even build at least 3 world class teams but not sure if its going to happen in our lifetime.

[Sithara007]

6 team in domestic cricket is way too low, similarly having 37 teams are over the top. looking at Indian domestic teams, if they managed to get their act together then they could even build at least 3 world class teams but not sure if its going to happen in our lifetime.

How many is ideal, in your opinion?

I have followed the Sheffield Shield competition in Australia for the past many years. I would say without a doubt that it is the best domestic first-class competition in the world right now. I would rate it above the county championship of England and Ranji Trophy of India. But in Sheffield Shield, they have only 6 teams.

Even in the West Indies, they have only six first-class teams. Until the 1990s, the Busta Cup was regarded as one of the best first class competitions in the world. Similarly, the Plunket Shield competition of New Zealand also features only 6 teams.

India was having around 27 teams, before a supreme court judgement forced the BCCI to add 10 more.

As you can see, out of the six countries with a proper first-class setup, 4 are having just 6 first class teams each. Exceptions are England and India. England still maintains the quality, because each of these county sides are running for more than 100 years. The same can't be said about India.

The other six test nations (including SL, Pakistan, Bangladesh.etc) don't have a proper FC setup.

[JSRAW]

6 team in domestic cricket is way too low, similarly having 37 teams are over the top. looking at Indian domestic teams, if they managed to get their act together then they could even build at least 3 world class teams but not sure if its going to happen in our lifetime.

How many is ideal, in your opinion?

It basically depends on popularity of game and population density so every country should chose their own path according to the ground realities. Fixed team rule might work for one country but could be useless for another country.

In context of India, 25-30 teams are more than enough.. considering 99% wickets are batsmen friendly (Ranji).

Having said that if they are willing to work on competitive tracks for Ranji then i don't mind existing number of teams or may be more teams (close to 50) in domestic level because of population/popularity. So would like to see more fast pitches for Ranji otherwise India might end up with the talent who finds success only when home season comes, not ideal situation IMO.

India is big and offers different sets of climate in different parts. Let's say focus on Seam and bouncy tracks in North India as this is much colder part in comparison of rest of the India. I understand it would be tough to replicate similar pitches as England/South Africa (Seam-pace) and Australia(Bouncy) in India, as pitch gets dry after 3 days here. For this they could work more on competitive wicket, make favorable condition for fast bowler for first 3 days and let the wicket break after 3 days naturally, after 3 days let the spinners enjoy a bit. Encourage State boards who are willing to improve their domestic track record because as of now everyone still playing at dusty wickets in the Ranji level. Situation is much better in International games (Test) tho.

[Vishnu.Reang]

@ JSRAW, my main issue with Indian domestic cricket is not the number of teams. Rather than that, I am worried that the teams are not at the same level. For example, the Uttar Pradesh cricket team represents 200 million plus people and then we have the Puducherry and Chandigarh teams which represent just 1 million each. Do you think that it is logical to have UP and Chandigarh in the same competition? Rather than having separate teams for Chandigarh, Mizoram.etc, why can't the BCCI form a combined team for all these smaller states? From what I have seen, Puducherry and Chandigarh hardly fields any natives in their playing XI. Most of the players come from other states, who chose to represent these states because they get the opportunity to play first class cricket.

[JSRAW]

@ JSRAW, my main issue with Indian domestic cricket is not the number of teams. Rather than that, I am worried that the teams are not at the same level. For example, the Uttar Pradesh cricket team represents 200 million plus people and then we have the Puducherry and Chandigarh teams which represent just 1 million each. Do you think that it is logical to have UP and Chandigarh in the same competition? Rather than having separate teams for Chandigarh, Mizoram.etc, why can't the BCCI form a combined team for all these smaller states? From what I have seen, Puducherry and Chandigarh hardly fields any natives in their playing XI. Most of the players come from other states, who chose to represent these states because they get the opportunity to play first class cricket.

Completely agree on representation, but this seems more like political problem IMO and its a big one if we are talking about UP. BCCI needs to step up and voluntary pass the resolution to form 4-5 more teams from UP. Gujrat has 3 teams (Gujrat, Baroda and Saurashtra). Similarly Maharashtra has also 3 teams (Maharashtra, Mumbai, Vidarbha), so its possible. Just to let you know politically i am in favor of dividing Uttar Pradesh into 4-6 smaller states.

[pakhitheboss]

@ JSRAW, my main issue with Indian domestic cricket is not the number of teams. Rather than that, I am worried that the teams are not at the same level. For example, the Uttar Pradesh cricket team represents 200 million plus people and then we have the Puducherry and Chandigarh teams which represent just 1 million each. Do you think that it is logical to have UP and Chandigarh in the same competition? Rather than having separate teams for Chandigarh, Mizoram.etc, why can't the BCCI form a combined team for all these smaller states? From what I have seen, Puducherry and Chandigarh hardly fields any natives in their playing XI. Most of the players come from other states, who chose to represent these states because they get the opportunity to play first class cricket.

Completely agree on representation, but this seems more like political problem IMO and its a big one if we are talking about UP. BCCI needs to step up and voluntary pass the resolution to form 4-5 more teams from UP. Gujrat has 3 teams (Gujrat, Baroda and Saurashtra). Similarly Maharashtra has also 3 teams (Maharashtra, Mumbai, Vidarbha), so its possible. Just to let you know politically i am in favor of dividing Uttar Pradesh into 4-6 smaller states.

If it happens then more talent from UP will get a chance. It is a good idea indeed UP can be divided into two or three states easily without any issues but politician will not allow it to happen so easily.

[Indymoney]

@ JSRAW, my main issue with Indian domestic cricket is not the number of teams. Rather than that, I am worried that the teams are not at the same level. For example, the Uttar Pradesh cricket team represents 200 million plus people and then we have the Puducherry and Chandigarh teams which represent just 1 million each. Do you think that it is logical to have UP and Chandigarh in the same competition? Rather than having separate teams for Chandigarh, Mizoram.etc, why can't the BCCI form a combined team for all these smaller states? From what I have seen, Puducherry and Chandigarh hardly fields any natives in their playing XI. Most of the players come from other states, who chose to represent these states because they get the opportunity to play first class cricket.

Completely agree on representation, but this seems more like political problem IMO and its a big one if we are talking about UP. BCCI needs to step up and voluntary pass the resolution to form 4-5 more teams from UP. Gujrat has 3 teams (Gujrat, Baroda and Saurashtra). Similarly Maharashtra has also 3 teams (Maharashtra, Mumbai, Vidarbha), so its possible. Just to let you know politically i am in favor of dividing Uttar Pradesh into 4-6 smaller states.

If it happens then more talent from UP will get a chance. It is a good idea indeed UP can be divided into two or three states easily without any issues but politician will not allow it to happen so easily.

In developing countries politics is really big enemy of talent and system because corrupt politicians never want to give any one his right so as you guys talking we have same problem in many countries they can bring some good talent but system is not helping country like India where they have some good number of sponsors many youths fail to came out just because of this they have not right way to join bigs if they divide this all as its need then surely they have some better teams and better players with more support from local peoples as well.

[Vishnu.Reang]

Completely agree on representation, but this seems more like political problem IMO and its a big one if we are talking about UP. BCCI needs to step up and voluntary pass the resolution to form 4-5 more teams from UP. Gujrat has 3 teams (Gujrat, Baroda and Saurashtra). Similarly Maharashtra has also 3 teams (Maharashtra, Mumbai, Vidarbha), so its possible. Just to let you know politically i am in favor of dividing Uttar Pradesh into 4-6 smaller states.

We already have 38 teams playing in the Ranji Trophy and I don't want even more teams. A lot of the players from UP now represents states such as Delhi and Chandigarh. I would rather reduce the number of teams from the present number of 38 to somewhere around 20. I would like to see a single team from the Northeast. Also, I don't want the smaller Union Territories such as Chandigarh and Puducherry fielding their own team in the Ranji Trophy.

[JSRAW]

Completely agree on representation, but this seems more like political problem IMO and its a big one if we are talking about UP. BCCI needs to step up and voluntary pass the resolution to form 4-5 more teams from UP. Gujrat has 3 teams (Gujrat, Baroda and Saurashtra). Similarly Maharashtra has also 3 teams (Maharashtra, Mumbai, Vidarbha), so its possible. Just to let you know politically i am in favor of dividing Uttar Pradesh into 4-6 smaller states.

We already have 38 teams playing in the Ranji Trophy and I don't want even more teams. A lot of the players from UP now represents states such as Delhi and Chandigarh. I would rather reduce the number of teams from the present number of 38 to somewhere around 20. I would like to see a single team from the Northeast. Also, I don't want the smaller Union Territories such as Chandigarh and Puducherry fielding their own team in the Ranji Trophy.

Okay it seems our view points are radically different on this issue. In existing system i don't mind less teams in Ranji but if we want to mine the raw talent then am in favor of more teams in domestic condition apply, already tried to touch the subject in my previous reply to Sithara007.

[bryant.coleman]

Okay it seems our view points are radically different on this issue. In existing system i don't mind less teams in Ranji but if we want to mine the raw talent then am in favor of more teams in domestic condition apply, already tried to touch the subject in my previous reply to Sithara007.

I am also in favor of the current setup. Ranji Trophy is divided into three tiers, so the quality is maintained. Out of the 38 teams, 18 are placed in the top tier and another 10 are placed in the middle tier. A total of 10 teams (such as Mizoram and Sikkim) make up the Plate Group, which is the third tier. You may not witness matches such as Mumbai vs Manipur or Karnataka vs Nagaland very often.

[JSRAW]

Okay it seems our view points are radically different on this issue. In existing system i don't mind less teams in Ranji but if we want to mine the raw talent then am in favor of more teams in domestic condition apply, already tried to touch the subject in my previous reply to Sithara007.

I am also in favor of the current setup. Ranji Trophy is divided into three tiers, so the quality is maintained. Out of the 38 teams, 18 are placed in the top tier and another 10 are placed in the middle tier. A total of 10 teams (such as Mizoram and Sikkim) make up the Plate Group, which is the third tier. You may not witness matches such as Mumbai vs Manipur or Karnataka vs Nagaland very often.

Your suggestion is different from my and vishnu but Tier/group system in Ranji sounds good to me as i already support this idea in international cricket(Test), with this they don't need to remove any team and group system ensures competitive cricket among the strong teams.

[Vishnu.Reang]

Your suggestion is different from my and vishnu but Tier/group system in Ranji sounds good to me as i already support this idea in international cricket(Test), with this they don't need to remove any team and group system ensures competitive cricket among the strong teams.

In test cricket, the divisions are not well defined. The first division comprises of 9 teams, and the second division comprises of just 3 (Zimbabwe, Ireland and Afghanistan). I would have opted for even number of teams in both the divisions. So there should be 6 teams in the first division and 6 in the second division. This could have prevented the occurrence of lopsided matches.

[Juggy777]

Okay it seems our view points are radically different on this issue. In existing system i don't mind less teams in Ranji but if we want to mine the raw talent then am in favor of more teams in domestic condition apply, already tried to touch the subject in my previous reply to Sithara007.

I am also in favor of the current setup. Ranji Trophy is divided into three tiers, so the quality is maintained. Out of the 38 teams, 18 are placed in the top tier and another 10 are placed in the middle tier. A total of 10 teams (such as Mizoram and Sikkim) make up the Plate Group, which is the third tier. You may not witness matches such as Mumbai vs Manipur or Karnataka vs Nagaland very often.

Your suggestion is different from my and vishnu but Tier/group system in Ranji sounds good to me as i already support this idea in international cricket(Test), with this they don't need to remove any team and group system ensures competitive cricket among the strong teams.

@JSRAW I had to study the Ranji three tier system to get a better understanding of what you’ll want, and after reading about it I have to agree that it can definitely be implemented by the ICC. However I don’t expect this to be implemented anytime soon, because currently ICC isn’t concerned about Test cricket. Lastly as fans of this game we can only hope, that at some stage ICC will seriously work on reviving Test cricket.

From the 2018-19 season, the teams contested in three-tiers. Five teams will qualify for the quarter-finals from the top tier (known as Elite Group A and Group B). Two teams will qualify from the second-tier (Elite Group C) and One team from the lower-tier (Plate Group) for the quarter-finals.

Sources:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranji_Trophy

https://www.thecitizen.in/index.php/en/NewsDetail/index/11/16740/Fans-and-Players-Overwhelmingly-Favour-Test-Cricket---But-is-the-ICC-Interested

https://www.indiatoday.in/sports/cricket/story/test-cricket-dying-icc-chairman-shashank-manohar-t20is-revnue-cricket-olympics-1450946-2019-02-07

https://m.dailyhunt.in/news/india/english/cricket+addictor+english-epaper-cricaden/kevin+pietersen+opens+up+on+how+to+revive+test+cricket-newsid-n169678654

[bryant.coleman]

@JSRAW I had to study the Ranji three tier system to get a better understanding of what you’ll want, and after reading about it I have to agree that it can definitely be implemented by the ICC. However I don’t expect this to be implemented anytime soon, because currently ICC isn’t concerned about Test cricket. Lastly as fans of this game we can only hope, that at some stage ICC will seriously work on reviving Test cricket.

With every passing year, the number of fans who prefer the longer format goes down. T10/T20/ODI are far more popular nowadays and only a few die-hard traditionalists favor the test matches. Another factor that is having an impact on the popularity is the increasing gap between the big 3 teams and the rest. In the shorter format, the weaker teams still have a chance. But in the longer format, the matches are increasingly becoming one-sided.

[JSRAW]

Your suggestion is different from my and vishnu but Tier/group system in Ranji sounds good to me as i already support this idea in international cricket(Test), with this they don't need to remove any team and group system ensures competitive cricket among the strong teams.

In test cricket, the divisions are not well defined. The first division comprises of 9 teams, and the second division comprises of just 3 (Zimbabwe, Ireland and Afghanistan). I would have opted for even number of teams in both the divisions. So there should be 6 teams in the first division and 6 in the second division. This could have prevented the occurrence of lopsided matches.

We discussed this couple of times, I wrote about it in details last year or so, can't find that post but recently you, me, eality and others were discussing the very same topic, quoting same reply here

In current situation, i would like to see Group system in the Test Cricket.

Group A : Top 6 teams
Group B : Bottom 6 teams

Replace bottom teams (4 and 5) from Group A > with topper teams ( 7 and 8 ) of Group B. After every FTP cycle.

@JSRAW

Holy cow Juggy777 so many articles eh.. using phone so can't read all, Sorry 

[pakhitheboss]

@JSRAW I had to study the Ranji three tier system to get a better understanding of what you’ll want, and after reading about it I have to agree that it can definitely be implemented by the ICC. However I don’t expect this to be implemented anytime soon, because currently ICC isn’t concerned about Test cricket. Lastly as fans of this game we can only hope, that at some stage ICC will seriously work on reviving Test cricket.

With every passing year, the number of fans who prefer the longer format goes down. T10/T20/ODI are far more popular nowadays and only a few die-hard traditionalists favor the test matches. Another factor that is having an impact on the popularity is the increasing gap between the big 3 teams and the rest. In the shorter format, the weaker teams still have a chance. But in the longer format, the matches are increasingly becoming one-sided.

The problem is time, cricket fans do not have the time nor the patience to sit and watch a game that take 5 days. The shoter the format the lesser the time it will take to finish.

Shorter formats are also the source for excitement in cricket due to their close finish.

[bryant.coleman]

Holy cow Juggy777 so many articles eh.. using phone so can't read all, Sorry  

This article posted by Juggy777 caught my attention:

https://www.thecitizen.in/index.php/en/NewsDetail/index/11/16740/Fans-and-Players-Overwhelmingly-Favour-Test-Cricket---But-is-the-ICC-Interested

It claims that the fans and the players are overwhelmingly favoring test format. I don't think that this is accurate. Because at least in my area, the number of cricket fans who favor the longer format are less in number. And talking about the players, obviously we have a few who are concentrating on the longer version after retiring from the shorter format. But the number who went in the opposite direction is far higher.

[JSRAW]

Holy cow Juggy777 so many articles eh.. using phone so can't read all, Sorry  

This article posted by Juggy777 caught my attention:

https://www.thecitizen.in/index.php/en/NewsDetail/index/11/16740/Fans-and-Players-Overwhelmingly-Favour-Test-Cricket---But-is-the-ICC-Interested

I claims that the fans and the players are overwhelmingly favoring test format. I don't think that this is accurate. Because at least in my area, the number of cricket fans who favor the longer format are less in number. And talking about the players, obviously we have a few who are concentrating on the longer version after retiring from the shorter format. But the number who went in the opposite direction is far higher.

I don't see much problem in SENA countries as far as crowd is concern.  In England and Australia test following is almost intact, South Africa generate fair amount of crowd or on many occasion house full. New Zealand already gets few tests so fans still have some interest. Problem lies with in Indian subcontinent so you are not completely wrong about your neighborhood.

About players jumping from the ship. IMO It happens with the establish players, if you look at ground level eg; Coaching center and domestic level. Majority of players likes to play in the longer version of game first. If this survey took place around any coaching center (They didn't mentioned tho) then it has no value or has biased voices for obvious reasons.

Clock is ticking guys...

Prize pot

|

Entry fee : 0.001 BTC

IPL 2020 Starts in