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Author Topic: [ANN] Spondoolies-Tech - carrier grade, data center ready mining rigs  (Read 1256078 times)
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zvisha
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June 17, 2014, 12:45:30 PM
 #3261


You could see a lot of action (vapor bubbles) escaping through the mounting holes and out from under the edges of the board as the vapor builds up under the board it makes for an interesting show but obviously this is not the normal configuration. If it were a vertical setup you would have that rolling "boil" look I suppose. It just bet the SP10 board so well designed that in comparison to a smaller pcb of a higher density with 'older' hotter chips is comparing apples to dragonfruit with the SP10. They don't really need to be in Novec with those Hammer chips, but if you had a much smaller blade maybe that would be required. It be great to get some numbers on the SP10 especially can you overclock the snot out of the Hammer chips in the Novec even laying flat? Or do we all have to wait for Inside Bitcoin Hong Kong to learn more about the potential? I can't wait to get to Allied Control and check all these things out.

Curiosity!

Note that the FW pushes jobs to ASICs at the rate of ~600 jobs per second. If some ASICs run too fast (I think about 630Hz or more) they will finish job before the next job is ready, so they will run on idle. This gives you theoretical limitation of about 1.8T. You will see that the FW claims 1.9Th, but in pool you will see 1.8Th. If ASICs run faster then 630Hz, I will need to compile FW that pushes jobs at faster rate.
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JakeTri
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June 17, 2014, 02:05:00 PM
 #3262

I just updated to 1.4.6 and I guess my SP10 is dead or hang or something like that.

It respond to ping, I can open a web or SSH connection but there is nothing returned from the SP10 so I have no access to config page or to shell to check further.

Unfortunately I do not have direct access to my miner (hosted with BlackSun) and I open a ticket with them to power on / off hoping to solve the issue.

BTC donations always welcome: 1JakeTriwbahMYp1rSfJbTn7Afd1w62p2q
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June 17, 2014, 02:05:49 PM
 #3263

I just updated to 1.4.6 and I guess my SP10 is dead or hang or something like that.

It respond to ping, I can open a web or SSH connection but there is nothing returned from the SP10 so I have no access to config page or to shell to check further.

Unfortunately I do not have direct access to my miner (hosted with BlackSun) and I open a ticket with them to power on / off hoping to solve the issue.

i updated and it kicked in no problems... try a reboot after install?

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JakeTri
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June 17, 2014, 02:10:44 PM
 #3264

I just updated to 1.4.6 and I guess my SP10 is dead or hang or something like that.

It respond to ping, I can open a web or SSH connection but there is nothing returned from the SP10 so I have no access to config page or to shell to check further.

Unfortunately I do not have direct access to my miner (hosted with BlackSun) and I open a ticket with them to power on / off hoping to solve the issue.

i updated and it kicked in no problems... try a reboot after install?

How can I try a reboot again if miner is colocated and miner web page and/or ssh does not work after the reboot ?
I'm waiting for the hosting company to power cycle the miner hoping to solve the issue.

BTC donations always welcome: 1JakeTriwbahMYp1rSfJbTn7Afd1w62p2q
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June 17, 2014, 02:38:22 PM
 #3265

Do you have a private mine with your own equipment, built for your mine for you and your company and its Venture Capital investors?
We currently don't have a farm. Our data center is solely for hosting our customers units.
We don't have plan to have a farm during 2014.
We want to concentrate on building and selling the best mining machines, not operate farms.
Clear enough ?

Is this still the case? Will there be any disclosure should there be any future collaboration with Allied Control? Through what means will Spondoolies utilize to show their transparency to the community if you should start hosting customer units on a larger scale? To think that Spondoolies have not and will not consider immersion cooling is ludicrous (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).

I do not have any problem with your products, which have been reviewed with much praise. Instead, I am more concerned that there will be another Bitfury-like entity, who have the means to control the total network hash rate.

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June 17, 2014, 03:20:56 PM
 #3266

I just updated to 1.4.6 and I guess my SP10 is dead or hang or something like that.

It respond to ping, I can open a web or SSH connection but there is nothing returned from the SP10 so I have no access to config page or to shell to check further.

Unfortunately I do not have direct access to my miner (hosted with BlackSun) and I open a ticket with them to power on / off hoping to solve the issue.

i updated and it kicked in no problems... try a reboot after install?

How can I try a reboot again if miner is colocated and miner web page and/or ssh does not work after the reboot ?
I'm waiting for the hosting company to power cycle the miner hoping to solve the issue.
Miner start working after power cycle.

BTC donations always welcome: 1JakeTriwbahMYp1rSfJbTn7Afd1w62p2q
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June 17, 2014, 04:03:09 PM
 #3267

I just updated to 1.4.6 and I guess my SP10 is dead or hang or something like that.

It respond to ping, I can open a web or SSH connection but there is nothing returned from the SP10 so I have no access to config page or to shell to check further.

Unfortunately I do not have direct access to my miner (hosted with BlackSun) and I open a ticket with them to power on / off hoping to solve the issue.

i updated and it kicked in no problems... try a reboot after install?

How can I try a reboot again if miner is colocated and miner web page and/or ssh does not work after the reboot ?
I'm waiting for the hosting company to power cycle the miner hoping to solve the issue.
Miner start working after power cycle.

glad you got it sorted mate. after update today, my own was a little slow to hook into pool, but it do so eventually.

tips    1APp826DqjJBdsAeqpEstx6Q8hD4urac8a
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June 17, 2014, 04:11:44 PM
 #3268

I just updated to 1.4.6 and I guess my SP10 is dead or hang or something like that.

It respond to ping, I can open a web or SSH connection but there is nothing returned from the SP10 so I have no access to config page or to shell to check further.

Unfortunately I do not have direct access to my miner (hosted with BlackSun) and I open a ticket with them to power on / off hoping to solve the issue.

i updated and it kicked in no problems... try a reboot after install?

How can I try a reboot again if miner is colocated and miner web page and/or ssh does not work after the reboot ?
I'm waiting for the hosting company to power cycle the miner hoping to solve the issue.
Miner start working after power cycle.

glad you got it sorted mate. after update today, my own was a little slow to hook into pool, but it do so eventually.

I had similar performance issue after I got the miner online with 1.4.6 firmware  ... still at ~1.26Th after 1 hour or mining with new firmware vs. ~1.4Th before firmware upgrade then ... I notice on the setting page that miner was reset to "slow fans, medium rate" instead of turbo mode.

Speed got back to ~1.4Th after setting turbo mode so check and save again your settings just in case.

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June 17, 2014, 04:14:06 PM
 #3269

Code:
[quote author=raskul link=topic=521520.msg7364311#msg7364311 date=1403020989]
[quote author=JakeTri link=topic=521520.msg7363647#msg7363647 date=1403018456]
[quote author=JakeTri link=topic=521520.msg7362619#msg7362619 date=1403014244]
[quote author=raskul link=topic=521520.msg7362550#msg7362550 date=1403013949]
[quote author=JakeTri link=topic=521520.msg7362545#msg7362545 date=1403013900]
I just updated to 1.4.6 and I guess my SP10 is dead or hang or something like that.

It respond to ping, I can open a web or SSH connection but there is nothing returned from the SP10 so I have no access to config page or to shell to check further.

Unfortunately I do not have direct access to my miner (hosted with BlackSun) and I open a ticket with them to power on / off hoping to solve the issue.
[/quote]

i updated and it kicked in no problems... try a reboot after install?
[/quote]

How can I try a reboot again if miner is colocated and miner web page and/or ssh does not work after the reboot ?
I'm waiting for the hosting company to power cycle the miner hoping to solve the issue.
[/quote]
Miner start working after power cycle.
[/quote]

glad you got it sorted mate. after update today, my own was a little slow to hook into pool, but it do so eventually.
[/quote]
I had similar performance issue after I got the miner online with 1.4.6 firmware  ... still at ~1.26Th after 1 hour or mining with new firmware vs. ~1.4Th before firmware upgrade then ... I notice on the setting page that miner was reset to "slow fans, medium rate" instead of turbo mode.

Speed got back to ~1.4Th after setting turbo mode so check and save again your settings just in case.


yup; all good. although it's quite a warm day today in Scotland so it's only showing ~1.37 at pool (1.43 in the UI) normally it's up over 1.5, and i reckon it'll get there when it gets cooler and darker later.

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Collider
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June 17, 2014, 04:40:29 PM
Last edit: June 17, 2014, 05:01:28 PM by Collider
 #3270

Do you have a private mine with your own equipment, built for your mine for you and your company and its Venture Capital investors?
We currently don't have a farm. Our data center is solely for hosting our customers units.
We don't have plan to have a farm during 2014.
We want to concentrate on building and selling the best mining machines, not operate farms.
Clear enough ?

Is this still the case? Will there be any disclosure should there be any future collaboration with Allied Control? Through what means will Spondoolies utilize to show their transparency to the community if you should start hosting customer units on a larger scale? To think that Spondoolies have not and will not consider immersion cooling is ludicrous (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).

I do not have any problem with your products, which have been reviewed with much praise. Instead, I am more concerned that there will be another Bitfury-like entity, who have the means to control the total network hash rate.

Gen3 will probably be deployed within DC and managed by spondoolies, as by then individual mining could (should) be no longer profitable.
Customers would probably have the possibility in buying hosted GH by then.

However, this is still FAR in the future when taking into account "bitcoin time" and only one of many possibilities.

For this purpose and for possible large scale investors in Gen2 chips / devices the research at Allied Control will provide some experience with immersion cooling.
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June 17, 2014, 05:16:43 PM
 #3271

Customers would probably have the possibility in buying hosted GH by then.


and this is NEVER profitable for customers, so why bother.
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June 17, 2014, 05:18:06 PM
 #3272

Customers would probably have the possibility in buying hosted GH by then.


and this is NEVER profitable for customers, so why bother.
Because in the described scenario, mining at "home" would be unprofitable anyway.

That is the whole idea behind deploying together to save costs....


It is basically the same than buying hardware and hosting it in a datacenter, but this time spondoolies would try to get the best bulk purchase discounts available.
But please do describe to me how you will be competing with (possibly immersion cooled) equipment with the best W/GH ratio and lowest energy prices on the planet (let´s say 5ct/kwh) by the end of 2014.
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June 17, 2014, 05:25:36 PM
 #3273

Mining is affordable if miner manufacturers lower their prices.  Everytime the difficulty rises by X percent, the manufacturer needs to lower their price by an equal percentage or risk being priced out of the market.  The hardware company that can best afford to adapt to that is the one that will survive.


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June 17, 2014, 05:27:48 PM
 #3274

Mining is affordable if miner manufacturers lower their prices.  Everytime the difficulty rises by X percent, the manufacturer needs to lower their price by an equal percentage or risk being priced out of the market.  The hardware company that can best afford to adapt to that is the one that will survive.



The company that gets the biggest orders from the deepest pockets will survive. Has little to do with difficulty more to do with lower power and higher density now.

Dogie trust abuse, spam, bullying, conspiracy posts & insults to forum members. Ask the mods or admins to move Dogie's spam or off topic stalking posts to the link above.
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June 17, 2014, 05:34:46 PM
 #3275

Mining is affordable if miner manufacturers lower their prices.  Everytime the difficulty rises by X percent, the manufacturer needs to lower their price by an equal percentage or risk being priced out of the market.  The hardware company that can best afford to adapt to that is the one that will survive.


I think you are missing the point.

Over the longterm, the most important factor when calculating mining returns will be electricity price. If you are paying 20ct/kwh, you can get the cheapest equipment on the planet and still not make a profit.

Equally important is equipment and maintenance cost. This can be provided in the cheapest way possible, if the manufacturer builds a large quantity of (ideally)
efficient units and deploys them in a large scale to save on costs.
This could be an Allied Control Datatank container.
When building your miners for immersion cooling from the start, you save on costs for heatsinks, fans etc. and can deploy more chips per pcb.

Savings from scaling alone can easily account to another 20% cost reduction in comparison to sending individual people one miner at a time. (Which is the reason behind bulk customers getting better prices.)

The manufacturer can then plan his production more reliably, and offer the best prices available.

When negotiating for hosting of a 1MW container, which only needs electricity and internet connection, you will also be able to secure much lower hosting costs thand any individual at home.
(Think 4-6ct/kwh, or even less).


When hosting and purchasing equipment, the advantage lies in the numbers.
Therefore a fully maintained solution can have enormous advantages for individuals and peace of mind for manufacturers.
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June 17, 2014, 05:37:43 PM
 #3276

Because in the described scenario, mining at "home" would be unprofitable anyway.

That is the whole idea behind deploying together to save costs....

It depends on where your home is. Over the next few months, I expect we'll see people in Europe (who often have electricity costs above $0.20/kWh and high VAT) switch to datacenters built from the ground up for hosting bitcoin miners (like the one I'm building, which should charge less than $90/kW/mo or $0.125/kWh). However, if you already live in a place with cheap electricity (like West Virginia, $0.06/kWh), and if you don't have to rent a place just for your miners, then running at home could be a bit more economical as long as you don't place a high price on having a quiet and cool home. You can't get that many machines into your own home, though, so the bulk of the network hashrate (and the eventual hashrate equilibrium, I expect) will be running at around $0.125/kWh.

Immersion cooling will, unfortunately, have high capital costs. I would be surprised if they can get the capital costs down to a level where it can compete with air cooling for commodity hardware, especially if you have good datacenter design and a cool climate.

Hosting bitcoin miners for $65 to $80/kW/month on clean, cheap hydro power.
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June 17, 2014, 05:44:43 PM
 #3277

Capital costs of immersion cooling aren´t as high as you might think.

It costs significantly less than 1$ per W and allows you to save on components like heatsinks and increase the density on your PCBs.
It also saves you hosting costs and the system is easily upgradable.

Have your next generation gear ready? Superb! No need to buy heatsinks or fans anymore, just switch out the blades in your tanks.

Now you might say that is almost 30% of a miner, but you aren´t seeing that future gear will be below 0,5W/GH.

It will remain to be seen wether this is the cooling technique which will prevail in the long term.



What is quite clear today is that deploying in larger numbers gives you significant cost advantages, both in the short and longterm.

This is especially true when you see that you will be pulling 20kW easily for a decent sized mine in the future, as difficulty increases.
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June 17, 2014, 05:51:54 PM
 #3278



It will remain to be seen wether this is the cooling technique which will prevail in the long term.



personally, i like being able to warm my house in the winter with my rigging, but I doubt the endgame will be reliant on miners personal preferences.
the future is here, time to embrace it.

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June 17, 2014, 05:52:37 PM
 #3279

But please do describe to me how you will be competing with (possibly immersion cooled) equipment with the best W/GH ratio and lowest energy prices on the planet (let´s say 5ct/kwh) by the end of 2014.
The immersion cooling is just about nearly pointless with Bitcoin mining. The only thing that its proponents bring to table are workarounds for lack of proper design and engineering. Immersion cooling with 3M engineered fluids only makes sense if there are real constraints on the cooled equipment: speed of light limitation, unusual complexity, high density, etc. None of that really matter for Bitcoin mining.

If your goal is low PUE then simply use typical evaporative cooling well known in chemical process engineering and refrigeration. Most of the required equipment is already available, all you'll need to do is bring a chemical/thermodynamic process engineer to the table with the PCB design engineer, who is already working for Spondoolies. Together they need to design a proper heat exchanger for the mining chips and the associated buck converters. I already asked Spondoolies if SP30 motherboard was designed for cutting into 15 smaller boards. Apparently not, probably because the PCB design engineer wasn't given this as a requirement. So they cut the heathsinks into 15 smaller pieces.

They need to conceptually invert that design: single large liquid heat exchanger and multitude of small PCBs hosting the hot chips is the way to go long term.

3M's profit margins on their immersion cooling fluids are so high, that they require scientific notation to fit in the spreadsheets. Just use common chilling/refrigeration equipment instead where the profit margins are in expressed in two digits.

Please comment, critique, criticize or ridicule BIP 2112: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54382.0
Long-term mining prognosis: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91101.0
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June 17, 2014, 05:52:42 PM
 #3280

Mining is affordable if miner manufacturers lower their prices.  Everytime the difficulty rises by X percent, the manufacturer needs to lower their price by an equal percentage or risk being priced out of the market.  The hardware company that can best afford to adapt to that is the one that will survive.



Do you know any company that systematically does that week after week, apart from Bitmain. I don't.

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