Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress]

[Waradlain]

From all what is happening in Russia, what are the citizens saying about the current happenings Why cant they put down Mr X and all this will be history, because millions of people have been displaced, thousands injured and hundeds killed, all this all because of selfish desires by a few individuals. The world is bigger than one man or should i say a few individuals! Peace and Love must win this fight.

A vast majority really supports Putin, the rest is scared of the consequences of not supporting him.

Some brave and smarter ones already left the country.

Smart and brave, if such a definition can be applied to the people of so-called russia, who fled the country in 2014.
Those who are trying to flee now aren't brave and smart. These are those who aren't against invasions of other countries, colonial and genocidal wars. They support all that but prefer not to have it all done with their own hands. In this case, it doesn't matter at all whether they support Putin or not, because as we know "russian liberal ends where Ukraine begins”.

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[BADecker]

From all what is happening in Russia, what are the citizens saying about the current happenings Why cant they put down Mr X and all this will be history, because millions of people have been displaced, thousands injured and hundeds killed, all this all because of selfish desires by a few individuals. The world is bigger than one man or should i say a few individuals! Peace and Love must win this fight.

A vast majority really supports Putin, the rest is scared of the consequences of not supporting him.

Some brave and smarter ones already left the country.

Smart and brave, if such a definition can be applied to the people of so-called russia, who fled the country in 2014.
Those who are trying to flee now aren't brave and smart. These are those who aren't against invasions of other countries, colonial and genocidal wars. They support all that but prefer not to have it all done with their own hands. In this case, it doesn't matter at all whether they support Putin or not, because as we know "russian liberal ends where Ukraine begins”.

Russian conservatism ends where US tyranny begins... Ukraine.

[paxmao]

...In a nuclear war there is no winner. The first strike is guaranteed to be followed by a response (it could even not be a nuke, but certainly proportional and devastating)... and from there nobody knows...

Can we stop pretending that instead of protecting its members NATO countries signed up to start a nuclear Armageddon for any tactical nuclear blast in any country around the globe? I realize that that's what UA has been desperately asking for but literally no NATO general or leader of ANY NATO country agreed to anything close to that. That's not how article 5 works

RU nuke attack in UA != RU nuke attack on NATO

Edit: I'm not saying RU should nuke UA, and i'm against all nuke attacks, but distinction must be made
...

False, a response to a nuclear attack does not necessarily have to be nuclear, that has been stated over an over. It has been described as "devastating" but most likely conventional. The ICBMs are not the only nuclear option and the nuclear response is not only not the only option, it is not even the best to achieve a deterrent for tactical nukes from Russia. Do you know that the tactical nuke arsenal in US is barely 200 units, like 10 times less than RF's?

At the risk of repeating myself, I am going to quote my post. Notice that it is PREVIOUS to the Kerch bridge being destroyed.

The scenarios being considered are not around the ICBMs,
...
Please notice that "effective" and "efficient" in this context means that they can blast expensive and critical target with precision and certainty.

I am sure you can add 1+1

[LTU_btc]

Russia is terrorist state and now Putin aren't even trying to hide it. He admited that today Russia attacked energy and communication infrastructure in most of cities of Ukraine which left people without electricity and water:
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-moscow-will-respond-forcefully-ukrainian-attacks-2022-10-10/
And like usual, these ''high precision'' missiles hit apartment buildings, pedestrian bridge, parks, children playgrounds and street:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63199721 Military objects they say.

From all what is happening in Russia, what are the citizens saying about the current happenings Why cant they put down Mr X and all this will be history, because millions of people have been displaced, thousands injured and hundeds killed, all this all because of selfish desires by a few individuals. The world is bigger than one man or should i say a few individuals! Peace and Love must win this fight.

Most of them are happy about what's happening, in their opinion Putin is doing right thing. They are fighting against nazis, NATO, gays and all other imaginary enemies. To get image about their opinion, it's enough to open some Russian telegram channels and see how russians react to news about killed Ukrainian civilians. Everything is fine for them, as long as they can comment about it on internet or watch propaganda on TV. But now when there is risk to get mobilized, love to mother Russia is gone and now many is running away from Russia to save their asses.

[BADecker]

^^^ Russia is not in the habit of pointing fingers at terrorist states... at least not as much as the US is. But if they were, they would simply point at the US as a terrorist state. If you listen to the lulling messages coming in over the US media, and stop there without thinking and looking at ALL history, you will never recognize that all the large nations are terrorist states, especially the US.

[Branko]

They are protesting but in Russia they have special police trained to fight protesters and these guys are brutal. They don't care if you're a woman or a child, everybody gets hit with batons and sprayed with tear gas the same way and then they drag you to a prison transport and you don't get a phone call to family like in the US, or a hot meal. More likely they'll make you take your clothes off and leave you naked for the night or come back in a few hours to beat you. You don't get to experience this in "normal" countries. You need big balls to be an anti government protester in Russia or Belarus.

Thank God, similar policemen in the West give protesters donuts and coffee, and spread love and peace
among protesters

Russia is terrorist state and now Putin aren't even trying to hide it. He admited that today Russia attacked energy and communication infrastructure in most of cities of Ukraine which left people without electricity and water:
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-moscow-will-respond-forcefully-ukrainian-attacks-2022-10-10/
And like usual, these ''high precision'' missiles hit apartment buildings, pedestrian bridge, parks, children playgrounds and street:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63199721 Military objects they say.

So they applied "Shock and awe"? And whose invention was that?

[paxmao]

From all what is happening in Russia, what are the citizens saying about the current happenings Why cant they put down Mr X and all this will be history, because millions of people have been displaced, thousands injured and hundeds killed, all this all because of selfish desires by a few individuals. The world is bigger than one man or should i say a few individuals! Peace and Love must win this fight.

A vast majority really supports Putin, the rest is scared of the consequences of not supporting him.

Some brave and smarter ones already left the country.

As Putin continues to target civilian infrastructure to appease his fervent supporters, leaders of civilized countries will distance themselves
from him.

Only terrorists would talk to this gnome during the G20 meeting next month.

A vast majority copes with Putin the best they can. Those who cannot longer cope and have good skills leave the country.

The supporters of Putin are those who benefit from the regime the most: Military in the high ranks that benefit from taking their cuts (a reason why most of the claims about size and performance of their army are wrong) and some of the secret services, which take their cuts from informants and live a good life.

All other citizens mean nothing.

They are protesting but in Russia they have special police trained to fight protesters and these guys are brutal. They don't care if you're a woman or a child, everybody gets hit with batons and sprayed with tear gas the same way and then they drag you to a prison transport and you don't get a phone call to family like in the US, or a hot meal. More likely they'll make you take your clothes off and leave you naked for the night or come back in a few hours to beat you. You don't get to experience this in "normal" countries. You need big balls to be an anti government protester in Russia or Belarus.

Thank God, similar policemen in the West give protesters donuts and coffee, and spread love and peace
among protesters

Russia is terrorist state and now Putin aren't even trying to hide it. He admited that today Russia attacked energy and communication infrastructure in most of cities of Ukraine which left people without electricity and water:
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-moscow-will-respond-forcefully-ukrainian-attacks-2022-10-10/
And like usual, these ''high precision'' missiles hit apartment buildings, pedestrian bridge, parks, children playgrounds and street:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63199721 Military objects they say.

So they applied "Shock and awe"? And whose invention was that?

Curious you could not find a better pic. What I see there is one protester being arrested while 50 people in the background film it.

An seriously speaking, protesting in most developed countries is widely admitted - not if it carries violence. We have all seen people arrested in the Red Square for holding a white sheet of paper.

[Branko]

Curious you could not find a better pic. What I see there is one protester being arrested while 50 people in the background film it.

An seriously speaking, protesting in most developed countries is widely admitted - not if it carries violence. We have all seen people arrested in the Red Square for holding a white sheet of paper.

Its not a problem to find a video, thousands of it actually...i just put pic instead because
forum cant properly embed video (for people lazy to click). Here you go

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf5vpzMIgyU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp2b9Qo88UI

[TwitchySeal]

Curious you could not find a better pic. What I see there is one protester being arrested while 50 people in the background film it.

An seriously speaking, protesting in most developed countries is widely admitted - not if it carries violence. We have all seen people arrested in the Red Square for holding a white sheet of paper.

Its not a problem to find a video, thousands of it actually...i just put pic instead because
forum cant properly embed video (for people lazy to click). Here you go

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf5vpzMIgyU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp2b9Qo88UI

Are you trying to argue that freedom to protest in the US and Russia are the same?

[be.open]

The 200k invasion army was supposedly better trained and better equipped and had other advantages like robust air support and still functioning supply lines. What happened to those soldiers? No one cares, let's throw another 300k into it, just with less of everything, and see how that works out. Maybe shift some generals around, yeah, that'll do it.

The question is not for me, but I will answer. Recently, a detachment of special forces from Ukraine returned to my city. They left six months ago and only now have they been given vacation leave (although the planned rotation should be carried out after six weeks of hostilities). Six months instead of six weeks - this is the price of the shortage of manpower involved in the special operation.

As for the scale of losses, people are tired, but everyone is alive. Recently, the first "cargo 200" from Ukraine arrived in the city, a sniper from Wagner.

[Branko]

Are you trying to argue that freedom to protest in the US and Russia are the same?

No, I'm arguing that police reaction is the same

[TwitchySeal]

Are you trying to argue that freedom to protest in the US and Russia are the same?

No, I'm arguing that police reaction is the same

Just because you can find examples of police over stepping their authority or protests turning violent, doesn't mean that police reaction in general is the same in US as Russia.  There are regularly protests with millions of people against things like war in the US without issue.  Sometimes they even work.


(Note: I believe this is one of the protests, not the violent insurrection)





Do you think the police in Russia would react the same as the police in any of the above protests in America?

No, they would react differently.

[montaga]

Curious you could not find a better pic. What I see there is one protester being arrested while 50 people in the background film it.

An seriously speaking, protesting in most developed countries is widely admitted - not if it carries violence. We have all seen people arrested in the Red Square for holding a white sheet of paper.

Its not a problem to find a video, thousands of it actually...i just put pic instead because
forum cant properly embed video (for people lazy to click). Here you go

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf5vpzMIgyU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp2b9Qo88UI

That's what the police force was created for, to squash labour protests and to chase down run away slaves.

[BADecker]

If you like Zelensky, you'll love his request for NATO to start a nuclear war. Why does he want the nukes to fly? Because he is failing against Russia in Ukraine.

Who is this Ukraine joker, anyway... who wants world nuclear war? Doesn't he realize that any scenario he dreams up, has already been thought of in Russia and all around the world? Doesn't he think that a sudden nuclear attack against Russia is exactly the thing that Russia is watching for, and that will be instantaneously countered by Russia?

Watch the video at the site.


Zelensky Calls for NATO to Launch Nuclear Weapons

This is a TV comedian who neither appreciates life nor the fact that he is pushing the entire world into war all for his demands. Ukraine needs to replace his idiot with someone who is rational and understands that in every war, ALWAYS there are more civilian deaths than soldiers. He never changes his shirt all to pretend he is at war, hiding in his bunker while he puts his entire country at risk for land that was entitled to vote for their separation which was the Minsk Agreement.This many will cause nuclear war in the United States. He is totally insane and has openly refused to negotiate any peace until Putin is overthrown. If that happens, the real hardlines will come and his bunker will not save his ass from a major direct nuclear attack. I am very familiar with the seething hatred between Ukrainians and Russians.

...

[suchmoon]

Kremlin's Fifteen Ruble Forces figured out the Crimea bridge explosion plot and it's a full-scale double-o-seven movie script. MI6, NATO, Bulgarian weapons, Lithuanian spies, it has it all. Spoilers: it ends with WW3.

https://thegrayzone.com/2022/10/10/ukrainian-kerch-bridge/

Ok, fifteen rubles is a bit unfair. The essay has so many putinist triggers, from the fall of the Soviet empire and Boris Yeltsin all the way to Christopher Steele, that it could easily be worth 50 rubles.

[BADecker]

Kremlin's Fifteen Ruble Forces figured out the Crimea bridge explosion plot and it's a full-scale double-o-seven movie script. MI6, NATO, Bulgarian weapons, Lithuanian spies, it has it all. Spoilers: it ends with WW3.

https://thegrayzone.com/2022/10/10/ukrainian-kerch-bridge/

Ok, fifteen rubles is a bit unfair. The essay has so many putinist triggers, from the fall of the Soviet empire and Boris Yeltsin all the way to Christopher Steele, that it could easily be worth 50 rubles.

Well, what can anybody expect? After all, the sanctions were done by the US and Nato countries to at least weaken Russia... even though they backfired. If you look for it, you might be able to find other countries plotting to blow-up the bridge.

However, thanks for this article link.

[TwitchySeal]

If you like Zelensky, you'll love his request for NATO to start a nuclear war. Why does he want the nukes to fly? Because he is failing against Russia in Ukraine.

Who is this Ukraine joker, anyway... who wants world nuclear war? Doesn't he realize that any scenario he dreams up, has already been thought of in Russia and all around the world?

How about the scenario where Russia fails to kill him, fails to take Kiev, gets their main battleship Sunk, Crimean bridge blown up, and after a bunch of other embarrassments finds itself on defense losing territory they thought they had secured last for good last spring, and now forced to mobilize 9 months after starting the thing they thought wouldn't even be a war by invading Ukraine .  You think Putin thought of that scenario?  Doesn't seem like it.

[Branko]

If you like Zelensky, you'll love his request for NATO to start a nuclear war. Why does he want the nukes to fly? Because he is failing against Russia in Ukraine.

Who is this Ukraine joker, anyway... who wants world nuclear war? Doesn't he realize that any scenario he dreams up, has already been thought of in Russia and all around the world?

How about the scenario where Russia fails to kill him, fails to take Kiev, gets their main battleship Sunk, Crimean bridge blown up, and after a bunch of other embarrassments finds itself on defense losing territory they thought they had secured last for good last spring, and now forced to mobilize 9 months after starting the thing they thought wouldn't even be a war by invading Ukraine .  You think Putin thought of that scenario?  Doesn't seem like it.

Putin was obviously wrong when he calculated that Biden won't risk nuclear war similar to Khruschev over Cuba missiles.
He also calculated that EU is not such vassal state to USA.

He seems intent to recalculate and fix his errors

[BADecker]

If you like Zelensky, you'll love his request for NATO to start a nuclear war. Why does he want the nukes to fly? Because he is failing against Russia in Ukraine.

Who is this Ukraine joker, anyway... who wants world nuclear war? Doesn't he realize that any scenario he dreams up, has already been thought of in Russia and all around the world?

How about the scenario where Russia fails to kill him, fails to take Kiev, gets their main battleship Sunk, Crimean bridge blown up, and after a bunch of other embarrassments finds itself on defense losing territory they thought they had secured last for good last spring, and now forced to mobilize 9 months after starting the thing they thought wouldn't even be a war by invading Ukraine .  You think Putin thought of that scenario?  Doesn't seem like it.

Putin was obviously wrong when he calculated that Biden won't risk nuclear war similar to Khruschev over Cuba missiles.
He also calculated that EU is not such vassal state to USA.

He seems intent to recalculate and fix his errors

TwitchySeal or anybody can invent all kinds of possible scenarios. And nobody knows if Biden really wants to risk nuclear war. The whole thing is a bunch of bluffs on both sides, at least until the time when things get serious.

Right now things seem to be getting serious. Putin is simply showing Zelensky that he has far more non-nuclear firepower than he has used so far. He seems to be bombing Kiev in retaliation for all kinds of aggression that Zelensky has been doing, like bombing the nuke plant, and bombing the bridge, and others.

And if you say that Russia used aggression by 'stealing' about 20% of Ukrainian lands, most of the people living there voted to join Russia. And the US puppet government since 2014 have been attacking these people because there have been Russians living there for decades.

It's not easy to tell who is right. But with the US controlling Ukraine to some extent, it looks like Russia is justified to some extent.

[paxmao]

Curious you could not find a better pic. What I see there is one protester being arrested while 50 people in the background film it.

An seriously speaking, protesting in most developed countries is widely admitted - not if it carries violence. We have all seen people arrested in the Red Square for holding a white sheet of paper.

Its not a problem to find a video, thousands of it actually...i just put pic instead because
forum cant properly embed video (for people lazy to click). Here you go

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf5vpzMIgyU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp2b9Qo88UI

That's what the police force was created for, to squash labour protests and to chase down run away slaves.

The police original purpose is to allow the rule of law, this includes preventing riots and protest that turn into violent mobs or riots - that would be something unsustainable for any society. If you argue that they overstep, I agree. If you are saying that the police in totalitarian regimes have the same response and accountability that in country with rule of law, that is not true.

At the risk of "whatabouting", think of the protest in Iran. Police do kill protesters, and not by chance or when things get out of control, they do kill them by the hundreds and those arrested get badly beaten, again not just one or two cases, but as an official method of control and punishment without trial. Why do you think the women there are risking death when protesting? Why do you think they would rather risk dying than living under the Ayatollahs?  If you find the answer, you will be one step closer to understanding Ukraine.