Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress]

[BADecker]

Notice that when the US pulled out of Afghanistan, she left far more armaments there than the measly few tanks Putin left when he pulled his troops out of certain areas of Ukraine. Just saying.

Irrelevant and also false.

But if you can pop down there and talk to Taliban - maybe you can get those American "armaments" and bring them to your buddy Putin. Then he can personally fly a Black Hawk to Kyiv and declare himself the Grand Duke of Kievan Rus.

Lol. It's so funny that you can find evidence of what I have said all over the Internet, but you keep on drawing yourself into the hole of ignorance.

However, it's kinda enjoyable watching the silliness that comes out of your mind and heart.

[DaRude]

...

Right now we're pretending to not know the difference between old Soviet junk and modern tanks? But please entertain us with your version of why NATO is not sending modern tanks to UA? Perhaps they're too busy playing Dota? Or requests just keep getting lost? Or they can send millions of 155mm shells but logistics to send tanks are just too hard? Or they're secret RU Orcs too?

It's the same old Soviet junk that Russia is planning to win the war with, or better. I still don't know why you're so obsessed with tanks - or only specific brands of tanks - as if that constitutes a worse threat to Russia than e.g. HIMARS, but Russia already lost a shitload of tanks (being captured or destroyed by Ukraine) and can't make anymore, so it doesn't really take a math genius to see where the balance shifting.

Sure let's extend all this effort for a high probability of a worse outcome? Worked so great in Afghanistan and Libya right?

I think you've missed the point. There is no "good" outcome. Let's say Putin takes Ukraine. Then he wants Poland. The whole thing starts over, just much worse.

Right how mobilized Russians with previous combat experience could possibly compare with super mega ultra warrior conscripts of Ukraine and super sober uber special forces of the 8th? mobilization wave of Ukraine?  

Not the best of your straw people. I'm talking about the Russian forces.

The 200k invasion army was supposedly better trained and better equipped and had other advantages like robust air support and still functioning supply lines. What happened to those soldiers? No one cares, let's throw another 300k into it, just with less of everything, and see how that works out. Maybe shift some generals around, yeah, that'll do it.

Pretty much spot on. He takes Crimea, then Easter Ukraine and the Fakepublics of the Dombas, then a corridor to the Fakepublic of Transnistria, they liberating the oppressed Russian living un Hungary, then a corridor to Konigsberg, ... From the European perspective, this has to end here and now. From the Ukrainian perspective, they do not want to be drafted as slaves, not having to survive the next Holodomor nor be the buffer for Putin's aggressions. And believe that some of the fighters in Ukraine speak well of the Commies, so Adolf Putin must have gotten something really wrong here.

Regarding soviet equipment, some people say that it is running thin, my personal take is that there is still a lot of rusty old iron. It is not fit for a modern war, but it kills when used and they do have a shitload of it. The issue is if in modern RF there is still space for a forceful recruiting of an army of slaves - Adolf Putin may have gotten that wrong too.

Slippery slope argument Haha this is a good spin, NATO playing a victim card, original! Russia is down to bare bones of RU speaking Ukraine, Kazakhstan and Belarus. So if NATO doesn't expand to these countries right now that would be a gateway to RU taking over Ireland or Canada next!   are we hoping that no one here has mental capacity to remember 2013 when UA had a pro RU president and that Transnistria has been with RU since 1990s and no one cared for that anymore than for Belarus president being the last European dictator
...

Again, an historic argument that does not matter at all because you cannot get out the middle-age thinking of "this belong to Russia", "This territory was Russia when my grandad lived there..." The territories belong to the people who live in them, the fakeferendums can only create fakepublics.

Ukraine is trying to get away from the world of Tzars and Kings that held the land as a personal possession. You need to get on a time machine and get back to the XII century where your brain is. While you wait for it to be invented, you can just travel back in this thread where those arguments have been shown wrong over an over - starting by the fact that the origin of the Rus (modern Russians) is Kiev.

...

Last i checked almost 1000km line of engagement still stands with RU even making some progress in some sections

You're cute when you don't have a counter argument   perhaps add a picture of burning Russian tank next time to really drive home your point?

The picture is a clear argument. Russian slave orcs are going to Moscow ... just for a coffee Boris... yes, back in no time.

As much as it's middle-age thinking you cannot deny that it's current reality. Cuba is still under US blockade just because of it's proximity to US, and US considering sanctions against Saudi Arabia not because they kill journalists and oppress women but because they didn't lower oil price and agreed to buyers cartel before November mid-term US elections (not to mention North Korea, Venezuela, Syria ...). You can even block deliveries of resources between separate countries, Germany even wanted to give US 1bil just for the privilege to turn on NordStream2, pretty savage right? Sorry to break this to you but this is how this cruel world still works, just because it's called soft power doesn't mean it doesn't cost lives, that's the benefit of being the world power and having reserve currency, you literally get to fuck around with anyone on this planet.

Another sorrowful base argument: you cannot change anything, this is the way it works so you have to live with it. You may have been living under a despot for too long to see anything else. Or even a worse one: "since you cannot always implement socially liberal and representative policies, then is better to not do it ever". That is your bottom line.

Yet here we are, people in Ukraine that are not willing to submit to the Tzar. That is real, you have it there. Medieval thinking does not work well in the Internet era.

You view is very partial and certainly you are not discovering anything, just trying to make Adolf Putin's attitude "the only possible course of action" - which certainly is not. You are putting the focus on countries that are ruled by despots because that is what you understand, but most of the developed world is based on representative governments (I do not want to discuss how democratic). And yes, we do have to live with Kings and Tzars and have diplomatic and commercial relations with them, but at least some of us want to press to make those regimes eventually representative.

Whattabout the Kingdom of Arabia? They are using the chance to favour their economy with disregard of their allies. There is price to pay. Nothing to do with their record as slavery and human rights abuse.

Let me ask you a question: How are human resources for construction works organised in Arabia, Oman, Dubai and EA? Do you know how they do it? Do you think "that's the world it is and there is nothing to be done?"

Not sure if your assessment could be anymore wrong. If you really want to solve the problem, you need to start at the root cause of the problem, and not at its symptoms. You cannot box by the rules when the other guy is twice your size and doesn't follow them, that's just not how the real world works. US having a full hegemony put in place some terrible precedence, "operations" instead of wars, private military companies, use of nukes, financial and political coercion of other governments, disregarding international laws, sanctioning international court judges, human rights abuses, bombing of other nations infrastructure without UN etc etc etc... And now when (so far) local conflict touches you personally you cannot possibly act surprised when the world doesn't rise up on your calls that NOW suddenly everyone should start to care about the rules and start changing things   We're back to the ‘For my friends, everything, for my enemies, the law’ logic. Laws either have to be consistent or shouldn't exist. Arbitrary application of laws, double standards and hypocrisy just makes a mockery of the whole system. Biggest players should start following laws before trying to shame others, it's akin of discussing global police abuse and starting with Ukraine while not mentioning police issues in US/Russia/China (cause suchmoon would be yelling whataboutism). It would be obvious to even casual observer that there's agenda at play and Ukraine is being used as a scapegoat.

It's an illusion, Ukraine is not big enough to hold on it's own, so it must submit to one Tzar or the other. Ukraine is already in shackles with A $20 billion programme would be the second largest currently active loan from the IMF after Argentina. All of this is outside of Ukraine's control, and i have nothing but pity for the people, as they're just pawns in this big game. But at the same time when two behemoths are battling it out, I'm very skeptical of any small nation that would willingly make itself into a battlefront proclaiming that it's protecting/fighting for the survival of one of the behemoths. Smart thing would be to stay quiet and watch how it plays out (like almost everyone else is doing). Either Grandiose delusions or people have been brainwashed into doing someone else's bidding by constant propaganda of being "de facto" in NATO and fighting for Poland/NATO/EU/Papua New Guinea/the World. Outcome is already shaping out and this is how it'll be sold to the people:

• Russia-we got more land out of this and kept our dominance on EU resource markets
• US-with only few billion spent and minimal losses we set Russia back some X years
• Europe-WTF just happened!?!
• Ukraine-Sure with the great decisions by our leadership we lost more of our population and land than was even discussed and agreed to at the beginning during negotiations, but take comfort in knowing that we saved Galapagos islands, we realize that this hypothetical cannot possibly be checked, so population just needs to trust us when we say if we haven't thrown tens? hundreds? of thousands of our soldiers at this, Orcs would've taken over Lviv and Galapagos islands would be next! Hooray to great decisions!
• China-

Human rights in middle east is shit. But now ask yourself why is it so? Then ask what is the currency in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Oman, Jordan, UAE (Dubai), Bahrain, and Qatar? Surely they are not all pegged and completely reliant to USD couldn't be right?? Now ask yourself why there so much human rights abuse in those countries? Is that cause with total financial control US just can't do anything about it? Or because US doesn't want to do anything about it, all of the money it sends there for oil still stays in it's own financial system anyway, which US can later use to offer bigger cookie to Ukrain/Belarus/Kazakhstan/Taiwan countries surrounding other world powers. And people, people just want to live their lives and are easily influence by a talking head on their TV box offering a bigger cookie until suddenly they find themselves fighting for their lives. Now ask yourself how are your proposals for "changes" will break this cycle and prevent this from happening over and over and over... again, or are these just superficial changes really intended to just prolong the current status quo

[TwitchySeal]

• Ukraine-Sure with the great decisions by our leadership we lost more of our population and land than was even discussed and agreed to at the beginning during negotiations, but take comfort in knowing that we saved Galapagos islands, we realize that this hypothetical cannot possibly be checked, so population just needs to trust us when we say if we haven't thrown tens? hundreds? of thousands of our soldiers at this, Orcs would've taken over Lviv and Galapagos islands would be next! Hooray to great decisions!

Or : Sure with the great decisions by our leadership, we still exist as a country, closer to the west with hope of joining EU and eventually NATO,  and don't have to live in a Kleptocracy.


The whole "they should have just let Putin win" is such a stupid argument.

[suchmoon]

~

Or maybe Ukrainians just don't want to be in or with Russia, just like nearly all countries in Eastern Europe after the fall of the Soviet block.

You can yell "cookies" all you want but anyone following politics in the aforementioned countries for the last 30 years could see that these countries had all sorts of issues, pendulum swings left and right, pro- and anti-EU/US/NATO etc, but most still somehow ended up on the western side of the newly-being-erected iron curtain, with exceptions being authoritarian shitholes like Belarus and the like.

There are many good reasons for this, all vividly illustrated now in Ukraine. Who could have know that people might not like to be invaded and ruled by a KGB psychopath. But wait, no, it must be some evil US plot. Maybe Clinton installed Putin back in 1999 and is puppeting him into doing all these evil things.

[BADecker]

• Ukraine-Sure with the great decisions by our leadership we lost more of our population and land than was even discussed and agreed to at the beginning during negotiations, but take comfort in knowing that we saved Galapagos islands, we realize that this hypothetical cannot possibly be checked, so population just needs to trust us when we say if we haven't thrown tens? hundreds? of thousands of our soldiers at this, Orcs would've taken over Lviv and Galapagos islands would be next! Hooray to great decisions!

Or : Sure with the great decisions by our leadership, we still exist as a country, closer to the west with hope of joining EU and eventually NATO,  and don't have to live in a Kleptocracy.


The whole "they should have just let Putin win" is such a stupid argument.

Putin already won. He took over some 20% of Ukraine. Can he hold it? The answer comes in the form of the missile strikes that he did in Kiev a few days ago. Ukraine is, now, urging its people to cut back on electricity because of these missile strikes. https://www.naturalnews.com/2022-10-13-ukrainian-government-tells-citizens-conserve-electricity.html#. The missiles took out some important Ukraine infrastructure.

In addition, search on "Putin moves troops into Belarus" - https://duckduckgo.com/?q=putin+moves+troops+into+belarus&ia=web. Ukraine wants to play tough? Time to take the kid gloves off.

The missile strikes in Kiev were nothing compared with what's coming. While the West sits on its hands wondering what to do next... to antagonize Russia in such a way that doesn't bring on the nukes... Russia moves to put down all of Ukraine if necessary. And where in the world has the Belgorod gone?

[TwitchySeal]

• Ukraine-Sure with the great decisions by our leadership we lost more of our population and land than was even discussed and agreed to at the beginning during negotiations, but take comfort in knowing that we saved Galapagos islands, we realize that this hypothetical cannot possibly be checked, so population just needs to trust us when we say if we haven't thrown tens? hundreds? of thousands of our soldiers at this, Orcs would've taken over Lviv and Galapagos islands would be next! Hooray to great decisions!

Or : Sure with the great decisions by our leadership, we still exist as a country, closer to the west with hope of joining EU and eventually NATO,  and don't have to live in a Kleptocracy.


The whole "they should have just let Putin win" is such a stupid argument.

Putin already won. He took over some 20% of Ukraine. Can he hold it? The answer comes in the form of the missile strikes that he did in Kiev a few days ago. Ukraine is, now, urging its people to cut back on electricity because of these missile strikes. https://www.naturalnews.com/2022-10-13-ukrainian-government-tells-citizens-conserve-electricity.html#. The missiles took out some important Ukraine infrastructure.

In addition, search on "Putin moves troops into Belarus" - https://duckduckgo.com/?q=putin+moves+troops+into+belarus&ia=web. Ukraine wants to play tough? Time to take the kid gloves off.

The missile strikes in Kiev were nothing compared with what's coming. While the West sits on its hands wondering what to do next... to antagonize Russia in such a way that doesn't bring on the nukes... Russia moves to put down all of Ukraine if necessary. And where in the world has the Belgorod gone?

Yes and Biden isn't the US president.  The pope is in jail.  And vaccines are killing everyone that took them.

[BADecker]

Putin already won. He took over some 20% of Ukraine. Can he hold it? The answer comes in the form of the missile strikes that he did in Kiev a few days ago. Ukraine is, now, urging its people to cut back on electricity because of these missile strikes. https://www.naturalnews.com/2022-10-13-ukrainian-government-tells-citizens-conserve-electricity.html#. The missiles took out some important Ukraine infrastructure.

In addition, search on "Putin moves troops into Belarus" - https://duckduckgo.com/?q=putin+moves+troops+into+belarus&ia=web. Ukraine wants to play tough? Time to take the kid gloves off.

The missile strikes in Kiev were nothing compared with what's coming. While the West sits on its hands wondering what to do next... to antagonize Russia in such a way that doesn't bring on the nukes... Russia moves to put down all of Ukraine if necessary. And where in the world has the Belgorod gone?

Yes and Biden isn't the US president.  The pope is in jail.  And vaccines are killing everyone that took them.

Well, it took you long enough to recognize this stuff.

[paxmao]

...
Not sure if your assessment could be anymore wrong. If you really want to solve the problem, you need to start at the root cause of the problem, and not at its symptoms. You cannot box by the rules when the other guy is twice your size and doesn't follow them, that's just not how the real world works. US having a full hegemony put in place some terrible precedence, "operations" instead of wars, private military companies, use of nukes, financial and political coercion of other governments, disregarding international laws, sanctioning international court judges, human rights abuses, bombing of other nations infrastructure without UN etc etc etc... And now when (so far) local conflict touches you personally you cannot possibly act surprised when the world doesn't rise up on your calls that NOW suddenly everyone should start to care about the rules and start changing things   We're back to the ‘For my friends, everything, for my enemies, the law’ logic. Laws either have to be consistent or shouldn't exist. Arbitrary application of laws, double standards and hypocrisy just makes a mockery of the whole system. Biggest players should start following laws before trying to shame others, it's akin of discussing global police abuse and starting with Ukraine while not mentioning police issues in US/Russia/China (cause suchmoon would be yelling whataboutism). It would be obvious to even casual observer that there's agenda at play and Ukraine is being used as a scapegoat.

It's an illusion, Ukraine is not big enough to hold on it's own, so it must submit to one Tzar or the other. Ukraine is already in shackles with A $20 billion programme would be the second largest currently active loan from the IMF after Argentina. All of this is outside of Ukraine's control, and i have nothing but pity for the people, as they're just pawns in this big game. But at the same time when two behemoths are battling it out, I'm very skeptical of any small nation that would willingly make itself into a battlefront proclaiming that it's protecting/fighting for the survival of one of the behemoths. Smart thing would be to stay quiet and watch how it plays out (like almost everyone else is doing). Either Grandiose delusions or people have been brainwashed into doing someone else's bidding by constant propaganda of being "de facto" in NATO and fighting for Poland/NATO/EU/Papua New Guinea/the World. Outcome is already shaping out and this is how it'll be sold to the people:

• Russia-we got more land out of this and kept our dominance on EU resource markets
• US-with only few billion spent and minimal losses we set Russia back some X years
• Europe-WTF just happened!?!
• Ukraine-Sure with the great decisions by our leadership we lost more of our population and land than was even discussed and agreed to at the beginning during negotiations, but take comfort in knowing that we saved Galapagos islands, we realize that this hypothetical cannot possibly be checked, so population just needs to trust us when we say if we haven't thrown tens? hundreds? of thousands of our soldiers at this, Orcs would've taken over Lviv and Galapagos islands would be next! Hooray to great decisions!
• China-

Human rights in middle east is shit. But now ask yourself why is it so? Then ask what is the currency in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Oman, Jordan, UAE (Dubai), Bahrain, and Qatar? Surely they are not all pegged and completely reliant to USD couldn't be right?? Now ask yourself why there so much human rights abuse in those countries? Is that cause with total financial control US just can't do anything about it? Or because US doesn't want to do anything about it, all of the money it sends there for oil still stays in it's own financial system anyway, which US can later use to offer bigger cookie to Ukrain/Belarus/Kazakhstan/Taiwan countries surrounding other world powers. And people, people just want to live their lives and are easily influence by a talking head on their TV box offering a bigger cookie until suddenly they find themselves fighting for their lives. Now ask yourself how are your proposals for "changes" will break this cycle and prevent this from happening over and over and over... again, or are these just superficial changes really intended to just prolong the current status quo

Could you please stop wall-texting to basically say nothing or state facts that are contrary to what we are seeing?

Again, you have to concede to anyone that is bigger. False, when someone is bigger and you concede you become a slave. You fight, you look for allies and you let the bastard know that there hell to pay for aggression. That is what you are looking at in Ukraine.

Again, you have been living for too long under despots and thieves - you have lost you will to fight and you think the rest of the people are like you.

Russia diplomatic stance has been fucked. Land? It is still yet to see what do they hold to - bearing in mind that the Donbas is not even a rich region.
Europe has been damaged, now it finally gets the incentive needed to diversify energy and suppliers.
US is super happy of fucking Adolf Putin's army.

My apologies if I do not go through all your wall... it is just repetitive and very biased.

[OutOfMemory]

Two FSB and Wagner PMC officers ask for asylum in France and testify, reports Gulagu.net

https://theins.ru/en/news/256042

The glorious, great russia doesn't have any dirty secrets to hide, or does it? 

[DaRude]

• Ukraine-Sure with the great decisions by our leadership we lost more of our population and land than was even discussed and agreed to at the beginning during negotiations, but take comfort in knowing that we saved Galapagos islands, we realize that this hypothetical cannot possibly be checked, so population just needs to trust us when we say if we haven't thrown tens? hundreds? of thousands of our soldiers at this, Orcs would've taken over Lviv and Galapagos islands would be next! Hooray to great decisions!

Or : Sure with the great decisions by our leadership, we still exist as a country, closer to the west with hope of joining EU and eventually NATO,  and don't have to live in a Kleptocracy.


The whole "they should have just let Putin win" is such a stupid argument.

Sure, technically such logic could still be used to explain not following Minsk agreements even if Russia takes Kyiv and capital moves to Zakarpattia. Should hold in all cases unless leadership is completely dismantled, then it's back to we were protecting NATO with out lives. I guess that's where negotiations come in all sides will need a way to sell this as a victory for their people.

~

Or maybe Ukrainians just don't want to be in or with Russia, just like nearly all countries in Eastern Europe after the fall of the Soviet block.

You can yell "cookies" all you want but anyone following politics in the aforementioned countries for the last 30 years could see that these countries had all sorts of issues, pendulum swings left and right, pro- and anti-EU/US/NATO etc, but most still somehow ended up on the western side of the newly-being-erected iron curtain, with exceptions being authoritarian shitholes like Belarus and the like.

There are many good reasons for this, all vividly illustrated now in Ukraine. Who could have know that people might not like to be invaded and ruled by a KGB psychopath. But wait, no, it must be some evil US plot. Maybe Clinton installed Putin back in 1999 and is puppeting him into doing all these evil things.

Just need to oppress other continents/countries to channel the cookies to the "right" places to keep up their standard of living, what idiot wouldn't want to be on the cookie receiving side?!?! To rip the benefit you just need to make sure to be born in the right place closer to the demarcation line. I'm sure your set commitments won't let you agree to that, so let's try to relate to Crimea, surely you'd agree that lots of money was channeled to that region to make it more "appealing" most likely at a cost of other regions. That's how geopolitics work, and the benefit of hegemony is the ability to do that on a much larger scale, bigger cookies with bigger oppression. If Ukraine is to be split you can be sure that both sides of Ukraine will benefit generously from both world powers and receive creme de la creme at cost of others, as both sides need to make an example out of it

[TwitchySeal]

• Ukraine-Sure with the great decisions by our leadership we lost more of our population and land than was even discussed and agreed to at the beginning during negotiations, but take comfort in knowing that we saved Galapagos islands, we realize that this hypothetical cannot possibly be checked, so population just needs to trust us when we say if we haven't thrown tens? hundreds? of thousands of our soldiers at this, Orcs would've taken over Lviv and Galapagos islands would be next! Hooray to great decisions!

Or : Sure with the great decisions by our leadership, we still exist as a country, closer to the west with hope of joining EU and eventually NATO,  and don't have to live in a Kleptocracy.


The whole "they should have just let Putin win" is such a stupid argument.

Sure, technically such logic could still be used to explain not following Minsk agreements even if Russia takes Kyiv and capital moves to Zakarpattia. Should hold in all cases unless leadership is completely dismantled, then it's back to we were protecting NATO with out lives. I guess that's where negotiations come in all sides will need a way to sell this as a victory for their people.

~

Or maybe Ukrainians just don't want to be in or with Russia, just like nearly all countries in Eastern Europe after the fall of the Soviet block.

You can yell "cookies" all you want but anyone following politics in the aforementioned countries for the last 30 years could see that these countries had all sorts of issues, pendulum swings left and right, pro- and anti-EU/US/NATO etc, but most still somehow ended up on the western side of the newly-being-erected iron curtain, with exceptions being authoritarian shitholes like Belarus and the like.

There are many good reasons for this, all vividly illustrated now in Ukraine. Who could have know that people might not like to be invaded and ruled by a KGB psychopath. But wait, no, it must be some evil US plot. Maybe Clinton installed Putin back in 1999 and is puppeting him into doing all these evil things.

Just need to oppress other continents/countries to channel the cookies to the "right" places to keep up their standard of living, what idiot wouldn't want to be on the cookie receiving side?!?! To rip the benefit you just need to make sure to be born in the right place closer to the demarcation line. I'm sure your set commitments won't let you agree to that, so let's try to relate to Crimea, surely you'd agree that lots of money was channeled to that region to make it more "appealing" most likely at a cost of other regions. That's how geopolitics work, and the benefit of hegemony is the ability to do that on a much larger scale, bigger cookies with bigger oppression. If Ukraine is to be split you can be sure that both sides of Ukraine will benefit generously from both world powers and receive creme de la creme at cost of others, as both sides need to make an example out of it

Are you saying that you think the general population of Ukraine doesn't want to join NATO, the EU, embrace western values and instead would prefer to become part of Putins Kleptocracy? 

[suchmoon]

Are you saying that you think the general population of Ukraine doesn't want to join NATO, the EU, embrace western values and instead would prefer to become part of Putins Kleptocracy? 

Apparently all they want is cookies.

But for some inexplicable reason Putin can't give them cookies while (allegedly) being capable of boosting Crimea's economy and the imaginary Russian side of the future split Ukraine.

It's almost as if Ukrainians don't like Russian cookies. I wonder why that is.

[paxmao]

Are you saying that you think the general population of Ukraine doesn't want to join NATO, the EU, embrace western values and instead would prefer to become part of Putins Kleptocracy?  

Apparently all they want is cookies.

But for some inexplicable reason Putin can't give them cookies while (allegedly) being capable of boosting Crimea's economy and the imaginary Russian side of the future split Ukraine.

It's almost as if Ukrainians don't like Russian cookies. I wonder why that is.

I guess they are trying to ask the RF slave army about it, the problem is that orcs think that Ukranians may be angry at the mass graves, the killing of children and the bombing of their schools and hospitals so they are running all the way to Moscow. It must be hard for them to understand that Ukrainians are just running to them as brothers to embrace their Eastern culture and thank Adolf Putin.

[suchmoon]

There was a shooting at a military base in Belgorod region. I mean the bad kind of shooting, not like a training exercise. Two or three armed individuals (according to RF MOD - "terrorists", according to some other reports - mobilized soldiers) fired at other mobilized soldiers and killed between 10 and 22, injured 15 or more. MOD says the "terrorists" are citizens of CIS, meaning the moribund post-Soviet union involving Russia, Belarus, etc, but in this case they most likely mean a person from Central Asia. If they were among the mobilized, that would explain how an armed foreign (presumably dual) citizen managed to get into a military base. Motive was allegedly religion-based, which works well for Russian propaganda - islamic terrorism and the entire evil world against the righteous Russian dictatorship. They might try to tie it to Ukraine as well.

https://ria.ru/20221015/terakt-1824340408.html

[tvbcof]

Musk decides to keep funding Nazilink.  Hard to know why?

[xandry]

There was a shooting at a military base in Belgorod region. I mean the bad kind of shooting, not like a training exercise. Two or three armed individuals (according to RF MOD - "terrorists", according to some other reports - mobilized soldiers) fired at other mobilized soldiers and killed between 10 and 22, injured 15 or more. MOD says the "terrorists" are citizens of CIS, meaning the moribund post-Soviet union involving Russia, Belarus, etc, but in this case they most likely mean a person from Central Asia. If they were among the mobilized, that would explain how an armed foreign (presumably dual) citizen managed to get into a military base. Motive was allegedly religion-based, which works well for Russian propaganda - islamic terrorism and the entire evil world against the righteous Russian dictatorship. They might try to tie it to Ukraine as well.

https://ria.ru/20221015/terakt-1824340408.html

Against this background, the news of a week ago looks very revealing, when human rights activists reported that labor migrants from Central Asian countries were being forced to sign a contract with the Russian Ministry of Defense in various dishonest ways. It seems to be a direct consequence of such a bestial attitude towards migrants.

https://holod.media/2022/10/09/v-rossii-migrantov-iz-czentralnoj-azii-obmanom-zastavlyayut-podpisyvat-voennye-kontrakty/

Try this for starters: Here's Why Sanctions Actually Help Russia - https://russia-insider.com/en/politics/heres-why-sanctions-actually-help-russia/ri41.

Oh, such nonsense has just started to be said since about 2014. It's funny that you gave a link to an article from 2015. I was hoping that you would give me something more weighty, for example, a list of factories and industries that have been opened on the territory of Russia in cooperation with China. Or at least the news that Russia and China now have a visa-free regime, you can stay in the country all year round and freely buy real estate with rubbles. There is no such thing either? Maybe goods from China have become much cheaper for Russians? Unfortunately, no.
But you are partly right. Only with a small note: there is a lot of benefit from sanctions for China. They got a chance to buy Russia's natural resources with almost no profit for Russia.

[BADecker]

The fight against Russia was planed in European and US minds all over the place. Here is another example. It shows how the West is making agreements to encroach on Russia's part of the world (using the fake name "Mercure" to represent Russia), and some of what Russian allies are doing to thwart it.


Debunking the “Russian Aggression” Canard: Was Nato Actively Rehearsing for an Amphibious Assault on the Donbass?

On November 18-December 3, 2021, a NATO maritime exercise was organized by the French Navy (Marine nationale) off the Mediterranean coast and along France's Atlantic seafront.

Code-named POLARIS 21, the large-scale simulation aimed to "mobilize all components of the French Navy, including its latest-generation assets, land and air assets from the French Army and Air Force, as well as combat ships and aircraft from France's partner nations: the United States, Spain, Greece, Italy and the United Kingdom."…with an eye to serve as "laboratory" for tomorrow's warfare thanks to the integration and synchronization of effects in several fields and environments of conflict. POLARIS 21 will be conducted around high spectrum actions, corresponding to the future missions of the French Navy in a hardened strategic context. It thus completes the preparation of the naval air group before its next operational deployment, which will begin in February 2022. » (1)

The technical file goes a long way in describing a fictitious geopolitical environment which describes "Mercure" (the Russian Federation) as the main threat in this war-game simulation.

"Mercure is a huge country straddling North Asia and Europe that forms a federation of 16 autonomous regions with no direct access to the Mediterranean. The legislative power is represented by a parliament of 400 deputies elected by direct universal suffrage for 5 years. There are several political parties all represented in parliament. The executive branch headed by the head of government appointed by the president. The president elected for 6 years. Current president Virgo Medvetine has managed to stay in power for 20 years and has silenced his main opponents. He advocates a strong Mercure and exacerbates the nationalist feeling of the Catharist people…

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Try this for starters: Here's Why Sanctions Actually Help Russia - https://russia-insider.com/en/politics/heres-why-sanctions-actually-help-russia/ri41.

Oh, such nonsense has just started to be said since about 2014. It's funny that you gave a link to an article from 2015. I was hoping that you would give me something more weighty, for example, a list of factories and industries that have been opened on the territory of Russia in cooperation with China. Or at least the news that Russia and China now have a visa-free regime, you can stay in the country all year round and freely buy real estate with rubbles. There is no such thing either? Maybe goods from China have become much cheaper for Russians? Unfortunately, no.
But you are partly right. Only with a small note: there is a lot of benefit from sanctions for China. They got a chance to buy Russia's natural resources with almost no profit for Russia.

Since you call what I showed you "such nonsense," why ask me any more? If you are at all really interested, do your own research. There are plenty of words in the article I listed, so that you can do a search on them to find what you are looking for.

[DaRude]

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Not sure if your assessment could be anymore wrong. If you really want to solve the problem, you need to start at the root cause of the problem, and not at its symptoms. You cannot box by the rules when the other guy is twice your size and doesn't follow them, that's just not how the real world works. US having a full hegemony put in place some terrible precedence, "operations" instead of wars, private military companies, use of nukes, financial and political coercion of other governments, disregarding international laws, sanctioning international court judges, human rights abuses, bombing of other nations infrastructure without UN etc etc etc... And now when (so far) local conflict touches you personally you cannot possibly act surprised when the world doesn't rise up on your calls that NOW suddenly everyone should start to care about the rules and start changing things   We're back to the ‘For my friends, everything, for my enemies, the law’ logic. Laws either have to be consistent or shouldn't exist. Arbitrary application of laws, double standards and hypocrisy just makes a mockery of the whole system. Biggest players should start following laws before trying to shame others, it's akin of discussing global police abuse and starting with Ukraine while not mentioning police issues in US/Russia/China (cause suchmoon would be yelling whataboutism). It would be obvious to even casual observer that there's agenda at play and Ukraine is being used as a scapegoat.

It's an illusion, Ukraine is not big enough to hold on it's own, so it must submit to one Tzar or the other. Ukraine is already in shackles with A $20 billion programme would be the second largest currently active loan from the IMF after Argentina. All of this is outside of Ukraine's control, and i have nothing but pity for the people, as they're just pawns in this big game. But at the same time when two behemoths are battling it out, I'm very skeptical of any small nation that would willingly make itself into a battlefront proclaiming that it's protecting/fighting for the survival of one of the behemoths. Smart thing would be to stay quiet and watch how it plays out (like almost everyone else is doing). Either Grandiose delusions or people have been brainwashed into doing someone else's bidding by constant propaganda of being "de facto" in NATO and fighting for Poland/NATO/EU/Papua New Guinea/the World. Outcome is already shaping out and this is how it'll be sold to the people:

• Russia-we got more land out of this and kept our dominance on EU resource markets
• US-with only few billion spent and minimal losses we set Russia back some X years
• Europe-WTF just happened!?!
• Ukraine-Sure with the great decisions by our leadership we lost more of our population and land than was even discussed and agreed to at the beginning during negotiations, but take comfort in knowing that we saved Galapagos islands, we realize that this hypothetical cannot possibly be checked, so population just needs to trust us when we say if we haven't thrown tens? hundreds? of thousands of our soldiers at this, Orcs would've taken over Lviv and Galapagos islands would be next! Hooray to great decisions!
• China-

Human rights in middle east is shit. But now ask yourself why is it so? Then ask what is the currency in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Oman, Jordan, UAE (Dubai), Bahrain, and Qatar? Surely they are not all pegged and completely reliant to USD couldn't be right?? Now ask yourself why there so much human rights abuse in those countries? Is that cause with total financial control US just can't do anything about it? Or because US doesn't want to do anything about it, all of the money it sends there for oil still stays in it's own financial system anyway, which US can later use to offer bigger cookie to Ukrain/Belarus/Kazakhstan/Taiwan countries surrounding other world powers. And people, people just want to live their lives and are easily influence by a talking head on their TV box offering a bigger cookie until suddenly they find themselves fighting for their lives. Now ask yourself how are your proposals for "changes" will break this cycle and prevent this from happening over and over and over... again, or are these just superficial changes really intended to just prolong the current status quo

Could you please stop wall-texting to basically say nothing or state facts that are contrary to what we are seeing?

Again, you have to concede to anyone that is bigger. False, when someone is bigger and you concede you become a slave. You fight, you look for allies and you let the bastard know that there hell to pay for aggression. That is what you are looking at in Ukraine.

Again, you have been living for too long under despots and thieves - you have lost you will to fight and you think the rest of the people are like you.

Russia diplomatic stance has been fucked. Land? It is still yet to see what do they hold to - bearing in mind that the Donbas is not even a rich region.
Europe has been damaged, now it finally gets the incentive needed to diversify energy and suppliers.
US is super happy of fucking Adolf Putin's army.

My apologies if I do not go through all your wall... it is just repetitive and very biased.

I'm sorry that you're struggling to read few lines of text, following your logic, regardless how you feel about them, you think Cuba is so much better off now that they decided to stand up and fight US? Or now you're going to explain how that's somehow completely different?
Have you considered that if Europe could stay competitive while importing US freedom LNG, no one would bother to bring Georgia and Ukraine into NATO in the first place? Geography can be unfair, there are costs to hedging and sometime those costs can be prohibitive.
Russia is lining up with Iran and China, enemy of my enemy thing. It would be very short sighted for US to be happy about that.

• Ukraine-Sure with the great decisions by our leadership we lost more of our population and land than was even discussed and agreed to at the beginning during negotiations, but take comfort in knowing that we saved Galapagos islands, we realize that this hypothetical cannot possibly be checked, so population just needs to trust us when we say if we haven't thrown tens? hundreds? of thousands of our soldiers at this, Orcs would've taken over Lviv and Galapagos islands would be next! Hooray to great decisions!

Or : Sure with the great decisions by our leadership, we still exist as a country, closer to the west with hope of joining EU and eventually NATO,  and don't have to live in a Kleptocracy.


The whole "they should have just let Putin win" is such a stupid argument.

Sure, technically such logic could still be used to explain not following Minsk agreements even if Russia takes Kyiv and capital moves to Zakarpattia. Should hold in all cases unless leadership is completely dismantled, then it's back to we were protecting NATO with out lives. I guess that's where negotiations come in all sides will need a way to sell this as a victory for their people.

~

Or maybe Ukrainians just don't want to be in or with Russia, just like nearly all countries in Eastern Europe after the fall of the Soviet block.

You can yell "cookies" all you want but anyone following politics in the aforementioned countries for the last 30 years could see that these countries had all sorts of issues, pendulum swings left and right, pro- and anti-EU/US/NATO etc, but most still somehow ended up on the western side of the newly-being-erected iron curtain, with exceptions being authoritarian shitholes like Belarus and the like.

There are many good reasons for this, all vividly illustrated now in Ukraine. Who could have know that people might not like to be invaded and ruled by a KGB psychopath. But wait, no, it must be some evil US plot. Maybe Clinton installed Putin back in 1999 and is puppeting him into doing all these evil things.

Just need to oppress other continents/countries to channel the cookies to the "right" places to keep up their standard of living, what idiot wouldn't want to be on the cookie receiving side?!?! To rip the benefit you just need to make sure to be born in the right place closer to the demarcation line. I'm sure your set commitments won't let you agree to that, so let's try to relate to Crimea, surely you'd agree that lots of money was channeled to that region to make it more "appealing" most likely at a cost of other regions. That's how geopolitics work, and the benefit of hegemony is the ability to do that on a much larger scale, bigger cookies with bigger oppression. If Ukraine is to be split you can be sure that both sides of Ukraine will benefit generously from both world powers and receive creme de la creme at cost of others, as both sides need to make an example out of it

Are you saying that you think the general population of Ukraine doesn't want to join NATO, the EU, embrace western values and instead would prefer to become part of Putins Kleptocracy?  

It's a loaded question, your phrasing makes it rhetorical. e.g. Would majority like to live in Luxembourg or in Siberia without central plumbing. Or would majority prefer to live in Moldova with ~10% of population in absolute poverty or in Crimea? Speculating that what general population thinks it wants would directly correlate to the mass media covering their region. That is, regions with UA media coverage are probably brainwashed to think that they'll become next Germany just if they join EU, and RU coverage side probably believes that they'll have no poverty, cheap resources, cheap education, stability, family values etc... To be realistic, i don't think any country can be successful and share a boarder with a super power while being anti that super power. Essentially it would be a ticking time bomb, look at Cuba/Taiwan, history shows that no power would accept that in it's "backyard" and they're dooming themselves into perpetual struggle and first point for any conflict. Plus direct proximity naturally leads to intermarriage, mixed families, language culture etc... Honestly best outcome would've been a buffer state, neutral like Switzerland used to be, but seeing how we're reaching the pinnacle of escalations that ship might've already sailed.

Are you saying that you think the general population of Ukraine doesn't want to join NATO, the EU, embrace western values and instead would prefer to become part of Putins Kleptocracy?  

Apparently all they want is cookies.

But for some inexplicable reason Putin can't give them cookies while (allegedly) being capable of boosting Crimea's economy and the imaginary Russian side of the future split Ukraine.

It's almost as if Ukrainians don't like Russian cookies. I wonder why that is.

Regardless how many times you continue to repeat that, facts will continue to prove otherwise. Good luck trying to fool everyone and pretending as if Ukraine didn't pick a pro Russian president in 2010 who US/Europe and the world acknowledged (before cookies showed up 4 years later [surely pro EU president would've won next, US brought cookies to the coup cause they just couldn't wait whole 11months for a legal peaceful transition ])

[tvbcof]

Unrelated, but just for fun.  For whatever reason this silly thing made me LOL.  I've a weakness for the ridiculous I suppose.

  Iranian drone in Ukraine - The animation
  https://www.bitchute.com/video/rV0GNGqDsQSc/

---

On the satellite thing:

You can tell when something is super-important and threatening because it is wiped completely off the discussion table.  That includes almost all of the 'alternative' platforms as well as the mainstream platforms.  Such seems to be the case with satellites and network connectivity.  Either that or all you ni...s most people are to dumb to realize the significance even as it is glaringly obvious in 'the lines on the map moving from side to side' sort of way.

It's been said that 'data is the new oil', and it's more than just a catchy jingle to bait investors.  The correlation between 'pipelines' and 'backbone connectivity' is high, and that includes transport terrain.

The reason this is related to crypto-currency, and the '4th industrial revolution', is that said revolution is contingent on reliable infrastructure to support the new economic model which, at a fundamental level, is about an economic currency backed by energy.  Use of energy is analogous to the arterial system while the digital network is the nervous system. The Nordstream-II was analogous to an attack on the jugular while attacks on the network infra would be attacks on the spinal cord (and result in varying degrees of paralysis.)

If there is one thing I fear in this world is that the WEF-associated freaks have the latitude to shape the 4th industrial revolution to their liking because it would make modern urban China with it's total enslavement look like a bastion of freedom.  Anyway, that's why I care.

A hypothesis of mine is that Space-X's business model had hope of being successful because it ignored the very expensive proposition of protecting infrastructure against attack.  Their competition such as the Hughes class are more deeply rooted in the military industrial complex and probably did spend more on this aspect on their products.  Looks to me as though Russia used some [probably 50 year old so as not to give away their secrets] technology and demonstrated to Musk that Nazilink is totally fucked globally if Putin decide it is so.  Likely the Western MIC did likewise and now poor old Elon 'doesn't know whether to shit or go blind' as we say in my part of the world.

Whatever Musk does is fine by me because, again, it stands to set back their 'Agenda-20{nn} carbon-backed monetary system' hopes by a fair margin.  Crypto, because it is super simple and not unnecessarily overly bloated in the case of Bitcoin, stands to work fine even if all the satellites turn into space junk and all the trunk fiber on land or under sea end up at /dev/null.

--

Another semi-related thought I had is that back in the day, before energy/data pipelines, it used to be 'a thing' to create buffer states such Belgium.  Now there is a turning.

If somehow Poland could be enticed into putting boots on the ground in Ukraine, NATO article 5 could be considered null and void.  That could open up the opportunity to create a 'land-bridge' between Russia (by way of Belarus or otherwise) to Germany and Kaliningrad.  A land-locked Poland could be a reality if that happened, but it is even more likely if Germany recognizes that their sole hope in this world is to switch sides.

It would be good to keep Poland around because everyone needs to set aside some land as a garbage dump for trash like displaced Nazi's, Zionists and like religious/satanist freaks, etc.  I maintain that it is wrong to kill them outright as some people prefer, but that's just me.  Better to study them for a more rigorous understanding of the threats and dangers they pose...and their past crimes.  Technology associated with the analysis of the living brain is another frontier on which great technical strides have been made and it could be a highly useful tool in such an endeavor.  Useful tool to assist in the selection of any leader in any country in fact.

[TwitchySeal]

Are you saying that you think the general population of Ukraine doesn't want to join NATO, the EU, embrace western values and instead would prefer to become part of Putins Kleptocracy?  

Apparently all they want is cookies.

But for some inexplicable reason Putin can't give them cookies while (allegedly) being capable of boosting Crimea's economy and the imaginary Russian side of the future split Ukraine.

It's almost as if Ukrainians don't like Russian cookies. I wonder why that is.

Regardless how many times you continue to repeat that, facts will continue to prove otherwise. Good luck trying to fool everyone and pretending as if Ukraine didn't pick a pro Russian president in 2010 who US/Europe and the world acknowledged (before cookies showed up 4 years later [surely pro EU president would've won next, US brought cookies to the coup cause they just couldn't wait whole 11months for a legal peaceful transition ])

Seems pretty clear that out of control corruption and Yanukovych refusing to sign the trade agreement were the main reasons for the revolution.  Not cookies.  Not even evil America.  The guy was turning Ukraine into a Kleptocracy and not even bothering to pretend he wasn't.  

Unrelated, but just for fun.  For whatever reason this silly thing made me LOL.  I've a weakness for the ridiculous I suppose.

  Iranian drone in Ukraine - The animation
  https://www.bitchute.com/video/rV0GNGqDsQSc/

---

On the satellite thing:

You can tell when something is super-important and threatening because it is wiped completely off the discussion table.  That includes almost all of the 'alternative' platforms as well as the mainstream platforms.  Such seems to be the case with satellites and network connectivity.  Either that or all you ni...s most people are to dumb to realize the significance even as it is glaringly obvious in 'the lines on the map moving from side to side' sort of way.

It's been said that 'data is the new oil', and it's more than just a catchy jingle to bait investors.  The correlation between 'pipelines' and 'backbone connectivity' is high, and that includes transport terrain.

The reason this is related to crypto-currency, and the '4th industrial revolution', is that said revolution is contingent on reliable infrastructure to support the new economic model which, at a fundamental level, is about an economic currency backed by energy.  Use of energy is analogous to the arterial system while the digital network is the nervous system. The Nordstream-II was analogous to an attack on the jugular while attacks on the network infra would be attacks on the spinal cord (and result in varying degrees of paralysis.)

If there is one thing I fear in this world is that the WEF-associated freaks have the latitude to shape the 4th industrial revolution to their liking because it would make modern urban China with it's total enslavement look like a bastion of freedom.  Anyway, that's why I care.

A hypothesis of mine is that Space-X's business model had hope of being successful because it ignored the very expensive proposition of protecting infrastructure against attack.  Their competition such as the Hughes class are more deeply rooted in the military industrial complex and probably did spend more on this aspect on their products.  Looks to me as though Russia used some [probably 50 year old so as not to give away their secrets] technology and demonstrated to Musk that Nazilink is totally fucked globally if Putin decide it is so.  Likely the Western MIC did likewise and now poor old Elon 'doesn't know whether to shit or go blind' as we say in my part of the world.

Whatever Musk does is fine by me because, again, it stands to set back their 'Agenda-20{nn} carbon-backed monetary system' hopes by a fair margin.  Crypto, because it is super simple and not unnecessarily overly bloated in the case of Bitcoin, stands to work fine even if all the satellites turn into space junk and all the trunk fiber on land or under sea end up at /dev/null.

--

Another semi-retarded thought I had is that back in the day, before energy/data pipelines, it used to be 'a thing' to create buffer states such Belgium.  Now there is a turning.

If somehow Poland could be enticed into putting boots on the ground in Ukraine, NATO article 5 could be considered null and void.  That could open up the opportunity to create a 'land-bridge' between Russia (by way of Belarus or otherwise) to Germany and Kaliningrad.  A land-locked Poland could be a reality if that happened, but it is even more likely if Germany recognizes that their sole hope in this world is to switch sides.

It would be good to keep Poland around because everyone needs to set aside some land as a garbage dump for trash like displaced Nazi's, Zionists and like religious/satanist freaks, etc.  I maintain that it is wrong to kill them outright as some people prefer, but that's just me.  Better to study them for a more rigorous understanding of the threats and dangers they pose...and their past crimes.  Technology associated with the analysis of the living brain is another frontier on which great technical strides have been made and it could be a highly useful tool in such an endeavor.  Useful tool to assist in the selection of any leader in any country in fact.

fyp