[ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released

[foodies123]

#rekt

I am now your biggest fan.

[foodies123]

Please let's hear the solution from all the people complaining about a rollback.  Please solve everyone's problems.  If your reply amounts to "I don't know, but a rollback isn't the solution" then please STFU you have nothing to offer.

do nothing, require mintpal to pay as any other sane coin community would, realize pos is a flawed concept because right now the hacker controls over 50% of the network, dump all pos coins, live happily ever after.

[Dadams]

Please let's hear the solution from all the people complaining about a rollback.  Please solve everyone's problems.  If your reply amounts to "I don't know, but a rollback isn't the solution" then please STFU you have nothing to offer.

The solution rests on designing a system without possible points of failure like Mintpal.
Effectively they would be decentralized peer to peer.

Solution for Vericoin handling of Mintpal fiasco?
1. Do nothing. Let it play out and if it survives then it should survive.
2. Fork to make stolen coins disappear.
3. Go back in time to pre-theft.


This was discussed a few pages back.

At the moment it seems hacker will not gain anything from this.
If I was hacker I would destroy majority of the coins which would make a rollback more difficult to justify.


But like stated first: the solution is a better system.
This is why crypto in the first place.
Exchanges are legacy from a prior broken system.
What happened here today is leftovers from that system.
What we should aim for is a system not vulnerable to this.
If VRC is not that system or a part of that system and in fact helping to survival of the broken system by splinting it, then it is not the answer.

If I was VRC dev I would say:
Sorry people, we got forced into making a hard decision.
We promise we won't fork coin again for this reason so please don't leave your money on exchanges.
Put it in your wallet and stake. This way you support the network.
We are also working on a decentralized exchange system that will hopefully make Mintpal and its like obsolete and offer peer to peer exchange.

[phzi]

Do you even realize what the other options were???

You are so stupid you don't even deserve the opportunity to own a computer.

The other option was for people had to learn a hard lesson from their mistakes, and mintpal to make it right.  Now, MintPal gets off almost scott free, and nobody learns anything.


As for the idiots saying bitcoin has done this before - that's completely untrue.

The bitcoin community has twice previously encouraged miners to use a specific client to cause one fork to win out over another.  Neither of these cases had anything to do with stolen coins on an exchange, both forks had something directly to a fault in the bitcoin source code.  HUGE difference.  And, each time bitcoin did this, it was by consensus of the entire mining community...


Proof of Share - aka, Proof of Nothing...

[Liquid71]

I'm sorry to the guys who lost coins, but you lost them because of Mintpal and they should reimburse you not the entire blockchain being forked. If Mintpal can't pay then the community shouldn't have trusted so many coins with one exchange. Isn't this a decentralized crypto coin? You can't become centralized when it's convenient to bail out an exchange because it's convenient.
51% attack is BS excuse to fork the coin to bailout Mintpal and all the idiots who trade the coin instead of staking and securing the network.
http://youtu.be/TjL2AgCQDJ0


That video on Peercoin explains why a 51% attack will not happen so it's a bullshit excuse.

Why not be Visa coin and allow chargebacks, and while you're at it have a Vericoin bank and offer Verinsurance

This coin is no longer crypto it's centralized fiat, and this is a sad day for all alt coins. Mintpal is NOT too big to fail. Maybe we should fork the Bitcoin blockchain to bail out Mt. Gox and Mark Karplees  

[phzi]

I'm sorry to the guys who lost coins, but you lost them because of Mintpal and they should reimburse you not the entire blockchain being forked. If Mintpal can't pay then the community shouldn't have trusted so many coins with one exchange. Isn't this a decentralized crypto coin? You can't become centralized when it's convenient to bail out an exchange because it's convenient.

Why not be Visa coin and allow chargebacks, and while you're at it have a Vericoin bank and offer Verinsurance

This coin is forever tainted, and this is a sad day for all alt coins. Mintpal is NOT too big to fail. Maybe we should fork the Bitcoin blockchain to bail out Mt. Gox and Mark Karplees  

Re-posted for truth.

[eiskalt]

An honest question, how many of you people here mad about VRC investors not getting cleaned out, lost money to gox or other scams?

Why are people so mad that VRC is young, and nimble enough to prevent theft?


Are you all serious? I never thought the community would gang up on the crypto trying to do the right then, when the crypto community should assist the developers in making it a solution that works

Times like this is when crypto can take a big step back, or a leap forward. It seems like many of the people who wish to see crypto succeed come here to see vericoin fail?

VRC did not avoid or prevent a theft.
The theft occurred and has been covered up.
This means the system that made the theft possible has been left uncorrected.
Now with all the bullshit and spin people are trying to act like this is a good thing.
This is not the solution.

Lecky is right.
Don't leave money on exchanges.
Have there not been enough examples already?
With this "fix" I fear people will do the reverse of learning the lesson.
This will just reinforce people using exchanges in this broken way.
It will excuse the exchange and they get a free pass.
This WILL happen again.
What then? Another rollback? Another fork?

In any scam: people who act like it did not occur or try to minimize it to create positive spin are part of the scam.
FUD is bad but mindless support is just as bad.

P.s: once again, I think VRC devs are among the best and I am very sorry they got placed in this situation. I sympathize.

The theft has not been covered up, it has been dealt with in the most effective way.
If you want to continue your rebellion against exchanges, please open a new thread, because it affects every coin and asset.

Is this the effective way that will be used in the future as well then?
Regarding my rebellion against exchanges... you just saw an exchange put the whole of Vericoin in jeopardy.
You just saw them put the devs under a lot of unnecessary strain and create a lot of difficulty.
You just saw them force a very difficult decision.

Don't you think it would be more appropriate to join the rebellion rather than trying to shut me up or move me along?

I only think it would be more appropriate to keep two things separated: 1. exchanges 2. Using the ability of the blockchain to deal with theft.

Nobody is trying to shut you up. Please stop trying to play the victim here.

[GridWorker]

VeriCoin ‏@VeriCoin 1m

FYI: When a proven dishonest node has enough coin to potentially attack the blockchain, forking is not centralizing, its protecting.

[alwa1]

MTGox happened and people are still using exchanges why will they stop now

Question:
did you get Goxxed?
If you did... did it change how you use exchanges?

Can you see where I'm going with this.

Actually I was not. I understand what you wanted to point and I hope thats what the future holds. But is not about saving Mintpal, its about saving vericoin, just the fear that someone has more than 30% of a POS coin is enough to destroy it! this means not only people who hold Veri at mintpal will loose but every Veri holder, http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2393940 . Bittrex already has bigger volume than mintpal and now this … I assume if they want to stay in the game they have to make some big changes and become way more secure than other exchanges.

[iGotSpots]

I'm sorry to the guys who lost coins, but you lost them because of Mintpal and they should reimburse you not the entire blockchain being forked. If Mintpal can't pay then the community shouldn't have trusted so many coins with one exchange. Isn't this a decentralized crypto coin? You can't become centralized when it's convenient to bail out an exchange because it's convenient.
51% attack is BS excuse to fork the coin to bailout Mintpal and all the idiots who trade the coin instead of staking and securing the network.
http://youtu.be/TjL2AgCQDJ0


That video on Peercoin explains why a 51% attack will not happen so it's a bullshit excuse.

Why not be Visa coin and allow chargebacks, and while you're at it have a Vericoin bank and offer Verinsurance

This coin is no longer crypto it's centralized fiat, and this is a sad day for all alt coins. Mintpal is NOT too big to fail. Maybe we should fork the Bitcoin blockchain to bail out Mt. Gox and Mark Karplees  

This guy gets it. This isn't wall street. Nobody is too big to fail. Oh wait...

Might as well just go back to dollars

[realestmofo]

Be sure to move your coins to Bittrex if you day trade. I would say get 2-3 exchanges going with some volume but that'll never happen so lets just stick with Bittrex.

[leckey]

Be sure to move your coins to Bittrex if you day trade. I would say get 2-3 exchanges going with some volume but that'll never happen so lets just stick with Bittrex.

Or don't keep coins on an exchange. Have you not learned anything by this?

[SeDz]

I'm sorry to the guys who lost coins, but you lost them because of Mintpal and they should reimburse you not the entire blockchain being forked. If Mintpal can't pay then the community shouldn't have trusted so many coins with one exchange. Isn't this a decentralized crypto coin? You can't become centralized when it's convenient to bail out an exchange because it's convenient.

Why not be Visa coin and allow chargebacks, and while you're at it have a Vericoin bank and offer Verinsurance

This coin is forever tainted, and this is a sad day for all alt coins. Mintpal is NOT too big to fail. Maybe we should fork the Bitcoin blockchain to bail out Mt. Gox and Mark Karplees  

Re-posted for truth.

centralized is someone with 8m vrc (1/3 of the supply)

[sdmathis]

You have gone nuts man. We are to blame mintpal got hacked? I have heard it all now.

If everyone didn't leave massive amounts of coins on mintpal to day trade with, then we wouldn't be entertaining the idea of rolling back the blockchain. So yes. You're all to blame, whether directly or indirectly, you're to blame.

... along with mintpal for storing 8million coins in a hot wallet.

No exchange, no price and coins with no value. Have to applaud your brilliant accusations against the victims of this theft.  

I'm saying DON'T LEAVE YOUR COINS THERE. I'm not saying exchanges should cease to exist. Although in fairness, the only exchanges should be p2p exchanges. But alas, one can dream.

Read what you want to read, believe what you want to believe... but don't for a second try to suggest that what I'm saying doesn't make sense.

If nobody leaves coins there, the exchanges will cease to exist. You are right, what you are saying doesn´t make sense.

And this is not about reading or believing, this is only logical. But please go on and throw some more dirt at the victims.

The exchanges would still exist. How can you not see this? Exchanges live off the fees gathered through trading, not from people leaving their coins in exchange wallets. It's REALLY fucking simple:
1) Go to exchange
2) Deposit to exchange
3) Make a trade = exchange gets fees
4) Withdraw from exchange

Everybody wins.

You'll notice I did say that MintPal was ultimately to blame. But the users who kept their funds there should not be absolved from blame. This has happened time and time again. How have they not learned by now?

Tried that. Didn't work. Mintpal stopped trading and froze withdraws almost immediately after my last VRC purchase. I couldn't withdraw in time.

[tigerwood0432]

Be sure to move your coins to Bittrex if you day trade. I would say get 2-3 exchanges going with some volume but that'll never happen so lets just stick with Bittrex.

Or don't keep coins on an exchange. Have you not learned anything by this?

+1 Don't keep your coin on any exchange , put in your wallet , and save your wallet 20 times in different places . Send to exchanges only when needed . It was a good lesson

[buy4crypto]

Do you even realize what the other options were???

You are so stupid you don't even deserve the opportunity to own a computer.

The other option was for people had to learn a hard lesson from their mistakes, and mintpal to make it right.  Now, MintPal gets off almost scott free, and nobody learns anything.


As for the idiots saying bitcoin has done this before - that's completely untrue.

The bitcoin community has twice previously encouraged miners to use a specific client to cause one fork to win out over another.  Neither of these cases had anything to do with stolen coins on an exchange, both forks had something directly to a fault in the bitcoin source code.  HUGE difference.  And, each time bitcoin did this, it was by consensus of the entire mining community...


Proof of Share - aka, Proof of Nothing...

The vericoin team has my support as one of the 70% not effected to remedy the situation to get everyones coins back. Even if it means short term loss of a few bucks. Nobody with VRC on the mintpal who had it stolen would be in good shape, the thief would get away with money.

You wake up one morning with a frantic message, 30% of the coins from a major exchange security issue caused ur community to lose such a large amount what would you do?

Most devs would say, I will develop another coin, seeya!

The vericoin devs stepped up and create value where others tried to steal it.

Vericoin is the real deal. If we the community band together, and don't let the fud take us apart we will grow through these pains and be stronger, larger because of it.

[eiskalt]

I'm sorry to the guys who lost coins, but you lost them because of Mintpal and they should reimburse you not the entire blockchain being forked. If Mintpal can't pay then the community shouldn't have trusted so many coins with one exchange. Isn't this a decentralized crypto coin? You can't become centralized when it's convenient to bail out an exchange because it's convenient.
51% attack is BS excuse to fork the coin to bailout Mintpal and all the idiots who trade the coin instead of staking and securing the network.
http://youtu.be/TjL2AgCQDJ0


That video on Peercoin explains why a 51% attack will not happen so it's a bullshit excuse.

Why not be Visa coin and allow chargebacks, and while you're at it have a Vericoin bank and offer Verinsurance

This coin is no longer crypto it's centralized fiat, and this is a sad day for all alt coins. Mintpal is NOT too big to fail. Maybe we should fork the Bitcoin blockchain to bail out Mt. Gox and Mark Karplees  

This guy gets it. This isn't wall street. Nobody is too big to fail. Oh wait...

Might as well just go back to dollars

No he doesn´t. This is not a bailout. Mintpal could still fail as a business.
It is the thieves, that get their bailout denied.

[leckey]

You have gone nuts man. We are to blame mintpal got hacked? I have heard it all now.

If everyone didn't leave massive amounts of coins on mintpal to day trade with, then we wouldn't be entertaining the idea of rolling back the blockchain. So yes. You're all to blame, whether directly or indirectly, you're to blame.

... along with mintpal for storing 8million coins in a hot wallet.

No exchange, no price and coins with no value. Have to applaud your brilliant accusations against the victims of this theft.  

I'm saying DON'T LEAVE YOUR COINS THERE. I'm not saying exchanges should cease to exist. Although in fairness, the only exchanges should be p2p exchanges. But alas, one can dream.

Read what you want to read, believe what you want to believe... but don't for a second try to suggest that what I'm saying doesn't make sense.

If nobody leaves coins there, the exchanges will cease to exist. You are right, what you are saying doesn´t make sense.

And this is not about reading or believing, this is only logical. But please go on and throw some more dirt at the victims.

The exchanges would still exist. How can you not see this? Exchanges live off the fees gathered through trading, not from people leaving their coins in exchange wallets. It's REALLY fucking simple:
1) Go to exchange
2) Deposit to exchange
3) Make a trade = exchange gets fees
4) Withdraw from exchange

Everybody wins.

You'll notice I did say that MintPal was ultimately to blame. But the users who kept their funds there should not be absolved from blame. This has happened time and time again. How have they not learned by now?

Tried that. Didn't work. Mintpal stopped trading and froze withdraws almost immediately after my last VRC purchase. I couldn't withdraw in time.

Well I'm sorry you lost, but it's an infinitely better proposition than storing your coins on an exchange for an extended period of time.

[CryptoSteam]

No he doesn´t. This is not a bailout. Mintpal could still fail as a business.
It is the thieves, that get their bailout denied.

I won't trust Mintpal after this. Their rep is shot. Goodbye Mintpal from me and many others.

[phzi]

I'm sorry to the guys who lost coins, but you lost them because of Mintpal and they should reimburse you not the entire blockchain being forked. If Mintpal can't pay then the community shouldn't have trusted so many coins with one exchange. Isn't this a decentralized crypto coin? You can't become centralized when it's convenient to bail out an exchange because it's convenient.

Why not be Visa coin and allow chargebacks, and while you're at it have a Vericoin bank and offer Verinsurance

This coin is forever tainted, and this is a sad day for all alt coins. Mintpal is NOT too big to fail. Maybe we should fork the Bitcoin blockchain to bail out Mt. Gox and Mark Karplees  

Re-posted for truth.

centralized is someone with 8m vrc (1/3 of the supply)

Bullshit.  Centralization is the ability to control transactions across the network - revert them or otherwise affect them.

Someone owning a large portion of something is a majority share at best, it doesn't centralize control of the blockchain in any way.

Reverting the blockchain for an exchange IS centralization - centralization at the hands of the devs and an exchange.

The vericoin team has my support as one of the 70% not effected to remedy the situation to get everyones coins back. Even if it means short term loss of a few bucks. Nobody with VRC on the mintpal who had it stolen would be in good shape, the thief would get away with money.

MintPal should be reimbursing everyone for the lost funds - probably in BTC value.  Anything else is just evidence that the VRC blockchain cannot ever be trusted.

I won't trust Mintpal after this. Their rep is shot. Goodbye Mintpal from me and many others.

MintPal AND VRC are both very obviously not worth trusting anymore.