[ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released

[Shill]

2) It is therefore a community decision to halt trading until devs come up with a solution. It's not a single and isolated devs move

That's a bullshit definition of a community decision.  It was decided by Mintpal and dictated to the VRC development team.  The other exchanges had little choice but to follow.  The community had zero choice.

  This is a case of destroying Vericoin to save Mintpal and nothing less.  

Well said. Miners who aren't aware of the hack will be mining on the wrong chain. Whoops ....what do the devs tell them when they come to complain?

Um, you don't mine this coin. lol

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[Abitcoinfuture]

It's not about bailing out mintpal you thick fucks, it's about protecting VRC from an 8 million coin dump... and you want to talk about mining?  It's multipool only, they have it under control, do some fucking research.  I here by declare to accept all FUD on behalf of VRC and reply to anybody with a big FUCK YOU!

[defier]

And the BTC fork for that 184 million exploited coins was for development?  Yes I know you previously try to explain how that wasn't the same.  Facts are, someone illicitly grabbed a bunch of coins, and the community reacted to negate it.  No two scenarios are the same and must be resolved differently.  

Nobody grabbed illicit coins... someone exploited a flaw to generate more coins then they should while mining a block.  It was a protocol level flaw in bitcoin that was fixed.  Yes, that was a development mistake, and a hardfork was necessary (the fix made the new blockchain incompatible with the old blockchain, and that 184million coin block was orphaned as a result).  The VRC action is totally different.  VRC IS NOT SUGGESTING A HARDFORK - the devs aren't fixing anything.  They are acting for benefit of an exchange and third party to the protocol.

Rolling-back a blockchain is unbelievably contrary to a decentralized ledger.  That, is the key.

A bookkeeper who "fudges" the books, has no place being trusted to keep the public ledger. Pressure is moot.

exploited, hacked, stole, pickpocketed.  Spin it how you like, someone came into possession of a bunch of widgets that weren't theirs.   Then the community reacted to protect itself from the criminals.

Crypto being in its infancy, decentralization is currently only a dream.  Many more people are needed to spread out from the "center".  We have not developed enough, for the purist sense of decentralization.

If you think about it, this is an awesome capability.  To be able to nullify a crime of this magnitude, saving people millions.  The mtgox, that wasn't.

To those screaming "they could just roll back my transaction if they don't like me" wow really?  To bring the whole thing to a complete stop like this would only be to protect the coin and community.  Its not like the dev just pops in reloads the file and is on his way with just your coins.  Many "decentralized" people have to agree to cooperate to accomplish something on this scale.  So unless you snaked enough coins or hashes to 51% a coin, you probably have no worries.

How about the idea of a multistage "Emergency Stop" button.  Like the emergency shut down on the Stock Exchanges?  Starting from Pools or Exchanges when something suspicious occurs.  Quarantines local activity and sends alarms to the devs, other Exchanges, and Pools.  
just a thought.

Beyond the stupidity of keeping the 8 mil in the hot wallet.  Kudos to MintPal stepping up immediately and facing this.  

The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing.

[chunkyjunkie]

Devs dont have the final say it takes 51% ............

Anyone who chooses not to update their client will get an instant "FUCK YOU" from Mintpal as they will be running a different version of the client and will be on a different chain.

What happens to people who are mining on the wrong chain? Right see there you go...it isn't a simple fix as "ROLL BACK and bail out mint pal".

You post as if you are directly affected by those8 million stolen coins being returned to the rightful owners.  

You have nothing to stand on.  VRC made a decision you don't like?  Great move on.  Like any good stalker you can't you are infatuated with what you perceive as something you must posses.

Am I wrong?  Again, VRC is garbage and has nothing going for it?  Move on nobody wants you here and you don;t want to be here. Everyone who just had their funds saved and a dev that stuck around instead of just disappearing and making another coin will fill your spot.

[smoothie]

Guys it is suicide to roll back because of Mintpal.  Mintpal should be made to pay for the losses.  No exchange should have the ability to force a hardfork in a coin because of their failure.  This will ruin the credibility of Vericoin purely to save Mintpal.  Mintpal is a vicious cancer to the community and this just proves it.

This.

If this rollback is done to cover MintPal's fuck up, the devs lose all credibility and are simply paid code monkeys for the exchanges.

Is that really what the community wants from a coin that had so much potential?

This is make or break time. The decisions made now will either cement VRC as a solid force in crypto or doom it to a slow and painful death.

Couldn't agree with you more. This decision has so many implications for miners, exchanges, both past and present. Miners on the wrong chain or users who recieved VRC in the time frame from the hack will lose their coins due to the "roll back" or what I call the "bail out" from the VRC devs.

[ofp]

Devs dont have the final say it takes 51% ............

Anyone who chooses not to update their client will get an instant "FUCK YOU" from Mintpal as they will be running a different version of the client and will be on a different chain.

What happens to people who are mining on the wrong chain? Right see there you go...it isn't a simple fix as "ROLL BACK and bail out mint pal".

I don't think this guy can stop, hes gone mad.

Yep, looks like he has so much to loose, does it not?

[buy4crypto]

2) It is therefore a community decision to halt trading until devs come up with a solution. It's not a single and isolated devs move

That's a bullshit definition of a community decision.  It was decided by Mintpal and dictated to the VRC development team.  The other exchanges had little choice but to follow.  The community had zero choice.

  This is a case of destroying Vericoin to save Mintpal and nothing less.  

Well said. Miners who aren't aware of the hack will be mining on the wrong chain. Whoops ....what do the devs tell them when they come to complain?

Um, you don't mine this coin. lol

He is just talking to talk, I dont even think he knows what a VeriCoin is, he is just mad as hell though!

[smoothie]

If you think about it, doesn't a coin that protects its community sound good to you?

Over bitcoin which was so disorganized it had to let the large thefts happen? Something to think about, I trust VRC

Maybe this has a positive outcome and the media picks this up?

It would be sick if this was a good thing and not a bad thing in the end as it will surely be publicized in every crypto magazine and news article?

Something to think about. Barring a horrible outcome to this wallet fix and rollback. Could the media push and outcome cause more demand? I really think so. I have faith enough smart people are out there it won't be dumped for a issue specific to an exchange. not a individual coin, VeriCoin just happens to be the target of the attack. You only attack a good coin where you can get your money out because it has a strong demand to soak up supply. This is why BTC / LTC / VRC may have been the targets on Mintpal.

I've thought about it...so what happens when the next big hack or scam concerning VRC happens?

Roll back? Double standard and not roll back?

[chunkyjunkie]

2) It is therefore a community decision to halt trading until devs come up with a solution. It's not a single and isolated devs move

That's a bullshit definition of a community decision.  It was decided by Mintpal and dictated to the VRC development team.  The other exchanges had little choice but to follow.  The community had zero choice.

  This is a case of destroying Vericoin to save Mintpal and nothing less.  

Well said. Miners who aren't aware of the hack will be mining on the wrong chain. Whoops ....what do the devs tell them when they come to complain?

LOl, just LOL... you can't make up your lack of understanding...

[nvminer]

Cryptocurrency is created to be not regulated by authorities, such as countries. What happened to Vericoin today goes against this objective, because it is controlled by an exchange site. Suppose someday a country authority send request to the Vericoin development team about some Vericoin is held by some bad guys and the authority request a hard fork to remove those Vericoins, or send those coins to the country authority, based on what happened, I doubt the team will say no.

Question is not whether devs do it or not.
Question is CAN THEY DO IT?
And the answer is obviously YES, for every single cryptocurrency, IF they get backed by the majority of their miners.
So, all the crypto community will have to deal with this reality.
You should all help to get the right spin in terms of PR.

Always, they can do it, as long as they make ppl support their new fork.
The question is, DO THEY DO IT OR NOT? DO THEY GIVE IN TO THE AUTHORITY OR THEY OBEY THEIR INITIAL AIM FOR A CRYPTOCURRENCY: NOT REGULATED BY AUTHORITIES.
(don't want to use caps, but obviously you don't get my insight)

If they are regulated by authorities, what is the difference between it and centralized banks?

p.s. til now, my questions are not answered.

Not a single developer will accept to face jail for not attending a legal order. Just face the truth.
The whole world now knows for sure that it is technically possible for EVERY SINGLE CRYPTOCURRENCY, including BTC.
So, crypto will be better served by getting the right PR spin on this story. Simple as that.

Really?
Will Bitcoin do this? I highly doubt, because its destiny is not controlled by two or three persons (and from the same country), and that is why Bitcoin can hold its value.
Is the Bitcoin sold recently by government got by hard fork and rolling back? No.

think about answers to my questions and then answer me

[FUD_master]

I wouldn't be surprised if this gets the attention of mainstream media, possibly giving positive attention to cryptos in general.

[Whatzhub]

I've just caught up with the forum threads and not sure that an average person/investor would have the time to go through all the arguments of the hard fork posted here.

If in any case, they would be reading up the official statements from the Vericoin Developers here:
http://www.vericoin.info/downloads/Statement.pdf

And the official statements from the Mintpal Exchange here:
https://support.mintpal.com/index.php?module=announce&sec=view&id=17

What an average person would probably pick up from this would be:
1. Mintpal's security has been breached and hacked, hence less trust & extra caution to use them in the future
2. Vericoin's developers have stepped up to help protect the coin as well as it's community and investors
3. Rules are made to be broken, and it's up to whether you would prefer Batman (one who breaks rules and steps up to do the right thing) or the Cold Ruthless Law that states that there is nothing that can be done against a theft as it is against all principles of how a crypto should be.

Common sense with the right morals > Cold-hard principles/rules

Just my sharing.

[tigerwood0432]

why are you answering to this FUDDER ? can't you see he is drunk or he took some cocaine = please ignore it , he has nothing else to do since 3 hours

[InvestorPerson]

why are you answering to this FUDDER ? can't you see he is drunk or he took some cocaine = please ignore it , he has nothing else to do since 3 hours

try a bigger font! also colours

[drkman]

Hey smoothie!  you lost!  now go back to suking a dick.  

[RW-Stott]

Guys it is suicide to roll back because of Mintpal.  Mintpal should be made to pay for the losses.  No exchange should have the ability to force a hardfork in a coin because of their failure.  This will ruin the credibility of Vericoin purely to save Mintpal.  Mintpal is a vicious cancer to the community and this just proves it.

This.

If this rollback is done to cover MintPal's fuck up, the devs lose all credibility and are simply paid code monkeys for the exchanges.

Is that really what the community wants from a coin that had so much potential?

This is make or break time. The decisions made now will either cement VRC as a solid force in crypto or doom it to a slow and painful death.

Couldn't agree with you more. This decision has so many implications for miners, exchanges, both past and present. Miners on the wrong chain or users who recieved VRC in the time frame from the hack will lose their coins due to the "roll back" or what I call the "bail out" from the VRC devs.

^this.

rollback = centralized move compromising integrity of blockchain.  aka, fail.

[tigerwood0432]

why are you answering to this FUDDER ? can't you see he is drunk or he took some cocaine = please ignore it , he has nothing else to do since 3 hours

try a bigger font! also colours

THANKS FOR THE ADVICE , CAN I ADD SOME MUSIC TOO ?

[smoothie]

VeriCoin security was not breached or compromised in any way.
Mintpal is a centralized storage solution. Because of this, it is more vulnerable to attacks such as the one that has occured. https://support.mintpal.com/index.php?module=announce&sec=view&id=17
In the best interest of VeriCoin, we have decided to revert the blockchain to a state immediately before the attack. This is not to protect MintPal from losses but rather to prevent a single entity from controlling 30% of the total supply, and to protect the VeriCoin users. Due to the way Proof of Stake operates, this quantity of coin could potentially attack the blockchain. To be clear, the coins that are on the Mintpal exchange are not owned by Mintpal but rather V!eriCoins owned by users.
Two Scenarios if you are a VeriCoin investor:
I. Your VeriCoins were stored in the VeriCoin wallet s ince 2AM EST 7/13/14
1. You are completely unaffected by this breach. Staking your VeriCoin in the wallet is the best decentralized solution.
II. Your VeriCoin was in an exchange after 2AM EST 7/13/14
A. In the best interest of VeriCoin Investors, the solution is to have the theft reversed. This is being done to
preserve decentralization of the blockchain due to the number of coins that were stolen.
1. Reversal of the theft is done by pin-pointing when the breach in Mintpal's security system occurred and
forking the blockchain prior to that point.
a) Reversal of the blockchain is not the preferred action but it vastly minimizes the loss to the
VeriCoin investors.
2. Mintpal will be reimbursing other exchanges and VeriCoin traders on their exchange for any
transactions that were made and lost since 2AM EST 7/13/14 due to the theft reversal process.
a) Mintpal will be going through each individual transaction line by line and compiling a list of
addresses to reimburse the VeriCoin investors.
b) This process will take time. Contact Mintpal or the exchange that you were using to trade VeriCoin
with any questions or concerns.
(1) Mintpal will be reimbursing their traders and will be reimbursing other exchanges so that those
exchanges can reimburse their traders as well.
(2) This is the Mintpal support link: https://support.mintpal.com/index.php?
module=tickets&sec=submit.step2&department=1
III. After the new wallet is released, the blockchain will continue from prior to when the Mintpal Security System was
breached.
_!_______________________________________________________________________________ _____________
First and foremost, our goal is to protect our VeriCoin community. This was not a security breach on our end, however we are working in conjunction with Mintpal to make sure our investors are reimbursed. We will continue to ensure that our blockchain is protected and provide answers to any questions you may have.
In the wake of this unfortunate attempt to weaken VeriCoin, we will rise stronger as a community, as investors, as s!takeholders and people!
Thank you for your continued support and patience during this time. The VeriCoin Team
Patrick Nosker, Douglas Pike and David Boehm

Last time I checked it wasn't the developer's job to protect their users. Users are supposed to do their own due diligence and protect themselves.

In essence Mintpal is a USER of Vericoin and thus the developers are protecting them. Total contradiction of logic there by the person who wrote this statement.

[btminer8]

why are you answering to this FUDDER ? can't you see he is drunk or he took some cocaine = please ignore it , he has nothing else to do since 3 hours

Agree. Pointless arguing with him, he doesn't even know what is he talking about.

[Dadams]

As stated before, there are 3 choices here.

1. Do nothing and let it play out as it plays out.
Vericoin could die. Price could crash if hacker sells and then rebound. Hacker could keep the coin and stake or attempt a majority attack.
Mintpal could die. Customers will expect to be reimbursed.
If either survives it will be because they deserve to.

2. Fork the blockchain to block the stolen coins and effectively destroy them.
Vericoin will survive. Hacker has no coins. No threat to system. Coin amount reduced, value goes up.
Mintpal customers lose, this is Mintpal and the hackers fault. Mintpal needs to reimburse.
Mintpal could die.

3. Roll back the blockchain to before the theft.
This seems to be the plan at the moment.
Mintpal bailed out. Customers happy in the short term.
Long term consequences? This is effectively a charge back and a bailout of a central authority that messed up.
It is not their fault they got hacked but just like it is never your fault if you get robbed. It is the criminals fault.
But if you are an exchange that advertises security and deals with other peoples money then you are accountable.



I personally would prefer option 1 even though I will lose money.
As soon as you mess with this you set a precedent.
I can imagine devs don't want to take this chance with something they have spent a lot of money and time on.
It is also not their fault. Fault here lies with customers who left so much on exchanges to day trade (mostly from greed).
Fault is with Mintpal for lax security. Fault is with the hacker for being a criminal and a cancer on society.

If option 1 is unthinkable for dev, then option number 2 makes way more sense to me.
They lose nothing. Community who did not keep all their money on Mintpal lose nothing.
Mintpal loses, hacker loses.

Option nr 3 concerns me and I think a lot of people in cryptocurrency.
If you consider it in contrast to option 2, it is obviously a move to save Mintpal more than anything else.
It puts the legitimacy of the currency in question to save a single business entity.