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socal
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August 10, 2014, 04:59:38 AM |
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EVERY ONE THE NETWORK STAKE IS NOT THE SAME AS THE AMOUNT OF COINS STAKING THAT IS JUST THE "STAKE WEIGHT" OF THE NETWORK
I hope this cleared up any confusion.
Posting again Nope, this doesn't clear anything. How many COINS are staking? Plain and simple. And what the heck is "stake weight" of the Network? I have to completely agree with barabbas on this one. The two questions I have, that I think the public should get clear answers to are: 1. How is staking weight calculated. 2. How is interest calculated from a compounding point of view. What I mean by this is the fact ScottAllyn I believe it was today was explaining how there is actually an advantage to having your wallet on 24/7 vs. turning it on once a month or once a year due to compounding interest. Well what is the calculation we can follow to determine what that payout would be? For example if I started the year with 100,000 coins and simply turned my wallet on 1 year later at an average interest rate of 2.25% I would clearly have: 100,225 coins. How many coins I would end up with though if I turned my wallet on once a month vs. once a week vs. 24/7. Obviously this is all written in the code somewhere so there is a reference point to all of this. I'm not asking Socal this (no offense) or any other BTCtalk supporters - I think this should be answered by the devs themselves. None taken I'll let the devs answer this one in depth since you requested it Xosihc, but I just want to point out that it is currently 1am for the Devs so there's a good chance they are asleep right now but I will text them tomorrow and request a more thorough explanation. |
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Xosihc
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August 10, 2014, 05:00:58 AM |
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EVERY ONE THE NETWORK STAKE IS NOT THE SAME AS THE AMOUNT OF COINS STAKING THAT IS JUST THE "STAKE WEIGHT" OF THE NETWORK
I hope this cleared up any confusion.
Posting again Nope, this doesn't clear anything. How many COINS are staking? Plain and simple. And what the heck is "stake weight" of the Network? I have to completely agree with barabbas on this one. The two questions I have, that I think the public should get clear answers to are: 1. How is staking weight calculated. 2. How is interest calculated from a compounding point of view. What I mean by this is the fact ScottAllyn I believe it was today was explaining how there is actually an advantage to having your wallet on 24/7 vs. turning it on once a month or once a year due to compounding interest. Well what is the calculation we can follow to determine what that payout would be? For example if I started the year with 100,000 coins and simply turned my wallet on 1 year later at an average interest rate of 2.25% I would clearly have: 100,225 coins. How many coins I would end up with though if I turned my wallet on once a month vs. once a week vs. 24/7. Obviously this is all written in the code somewhere so there is a reference point to all of this. I'm not asking Socal this (no offense) or any other BTCtalk supporters - I think this should be answered by the devs themselves. None taken I'll let the devs answer this one in depth since you requested it Xosihc, but I just want to point out that it is currently 1am for the Devs so there's a good chance they are asleep right now but I will text them tomorrow and request a more thorough explanation. Oh definitely - I don't need this answered tonight, or even tomorrow really (being that it's Sunday). But at some point it would be nice to know.  |
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socal
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August 10, 2014, 05:04:50 AM |
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EVERY ONE THE NETWORK STAKE IS NOT THE SAME AS THE AMOUNT OF COINS STAKING THAT IS JUST THE "STAKE WEIGHT" OF THE NETWORK
I hope this cleared up any confusion.
Posting again Nope, this doesn't clear anything. How many COINS are staking? Plain and simple. And what the heck is "stake weight" of the Network? I have to completely agree with barabbas on this one. The two questions I have, that I think the public should get clear answers to are: 1. How is staking weight calculated. 2. How is interest calculated from a compounding point of view. What I mean by this is the fact ScottAllyn I believe it was today was explaining how there is actually an advantage to having your wallet on 24/7 vs. turning it on once a month or once a year due to compounding interest. Well what is the calculation we can follow to determine what that payout would be? For example if I started the year with 100,000 coins and simply turned my wallet on 1 year later at an average interest rate of 2.25% I would clearly have: 100,225 coins. How many coins I would end up with though if I turned my wallet on once a month vs. once a week vs. 24/7. Obviously this is all written in the code somewhere so there is a reference point to all of this. I'm not asking Socal this (no offense) or any other BTCtalk supporters - I think this should be answered by the devs themselves. None taken I'll let the devs answer this one in depth since you requested it Xosihc, but I just want to point out that it is currently 1am for the Devs so there's a good chance they are asleep right now but I will text them tomorrow and request a more thorough explanation. Oh definitely - I don't need this answered tonight, or even tomorrow really (being that it's Sunday). But at some point it would be nice to know. lol I spoke too soon as soon as I posted that Doug joined IRC so I passed along your question EDIT: Dev post incoming  |
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Xosihc
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August 10, 2014, 05:11:39 AM |
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EVERY ONE THE NETWORK STAKE IS NOT THE SAME AS THE AMOUNT OF COINS STAKING THAT IS JUST THE "STAKE WEIGHT" OF THE NETWORK
I hope this cleared up any confusion.
Posting again Nope, this doesn't clear anything. How many COINS are staking? Plain and simple. And what the heck is "stake weight" of the Network? I have to completely agree with barabbas on this one. The two questions I have, that I think the public should get clear answers to are: 1. How is staking weight calculated. 2. How is interest calculated from a compounding point of view. What I mean by this is the fact ScottAllyn I believe it was today was explaining how there is actually an advantage to having your wallet on 24/7 vs. turning it on once a month or once a year due to compounding interest. Well what is the calculation we can follow to determine what that payout would be? For example if I started the year with 100,000 coins and simply turned my wallet on 1 year later at an average interest rate of 2.25% I would clearly have: 100,225 coins. How many coins I would end up with though if I turned my wallet on once a month vs. once a week vs. 24/7. Obviously this is all written in the code somewhere so there is a reference point to all of this. I'm not asking Socal this (no offense) or any other BTCtalk supporters - I think this should be answered by the devs themselves. None taken I'll let the devs answer this one in depth since you requested it Xosihc, but I just want to point out that it is currently 1am for the Devs so there's a good chance they are asleep right now but I will text them tomorrow and request a more thorough explanation. Oh definitely - I don't need this answered tonight, or even tomorrow really (being that it's Sunday). But at some point it would be nice to know. lol I spoke too soon as soon as I posted that Doug joined IRC so I passed along your question EDIT: Dev post incoming Awesome! I guess the questions more specifically would be; what is the period of compounding, which I know would vary depending on the amount of coins one holds. So I understand it does get complicated. It's not just a simple (FV) = (PV)*((1+(r/t))^t) |
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barabbas
Legendary
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Activity: 1162
Merit: 1000
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August 10, 2014, 05:17:38 AM |
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Who is playing with VRC buy / sell? Some people really manipulating price.  Yes this has been happening the past two weeks or so either whales accumulating or a well funded attack trying to kill VRC by artificially suppressing the price either way all we have to do is buy out the manipulators and NOT DUMP and there will be a clear shot back up. EDIT: Just something to think about if you take the time to dig back through the posts and the market graphs you will see a well coordinated FUD attack that coincided with the drop in price and subsequent suppression. That tells me there's either some big whales that know this is a good coin and wanted in cheap OR bag holders from other coins that want to see VRC fail because we threaten them. This, again, is your usual bullshit. The truth is that there's a lot of people willing to sell their coins -and actually selling them- for lower and lower prices. All the rest is simply bullshit, nothing else. Now, considering that \the staking numbers are absolutely false, that explains a lot. I will be awaiting for Doug's CLEAR explanation of exactly how many real coins are staking... and, by the way,m since the numbers provided are false, what's the use of those sites that are supposed to tell us how many coins are staking at a given moment and what the max and min of the day are? What a whole ball of crap this is resulting to be! And I don't want to hear ANY bullshit any more, ok? Oh and by the way, Patrick, there's a very specific question hanging since it happened that you have refused to answer (correctly): Exactly in what way would your transfer of 200,000 VRC to the exchange "help stabilizing" the price? Because, no matter how many turns you take at it, it sounds and actually is suspiciously like BULL SHIT. transferring BTC to buy VRC, would have helped, indeed. Transferring VRC would actually have the opposite effect,. so what was the purpose? And whatever happened to those 200,000 coins. These are very simple, straight6forward answers that would take less than 5 seconds to post... why are you refusing to do it? They are not going to go away... |
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Xosihc
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August 10, 2014, 05:19:13 AM |
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Who is playing with VRC buy / sell? Some people really manipulating price. Yes this has been happening the past two weeks or so either whales accumulating or a well funded attack trying to kill VRC by artificially suppressing the price either way all we have to do is buy out the manipulators and NOT DUMP and there will be a clear shot back up. EDIT: Just something to think about if you take the time to dig back through the posts and the market graphs you will see a well coordinated FUD attack that coincided with the drop in price and subsequent suppression. That tells me there's either some big whales that know this is a good coin and wanted in cheap OR bag holders from other coins that want to see VRC fail because we threaten them. This, again, is your usual bullshit. The truth is that there's a lot of people willing to sell their coins -and actually selling them- for lower and lower prices. All the rest is simply bullshit, nothing else. Now, considering that \the staking numbers are absolutely false, that explains a lot. I will be awaiting for Doug's CLEAR explanation of exactly how many real coins are staking... and, by the way,m since the numbers provided are false, what's the use of those sites that are supposed to tell us how many coins are staking at a given moment and what the max and min of the day are? What a whole ball of crap this is resulting to be! And I don't want to hear ANY bullshit any more, ok? Oh and by the way, Patrick, there's a very specific question hanging since it happened that you have refused to answer (correctly): Exactly in what way would your transfer of 200,000 VRC to the exchange "help stabilizing" the price? Because, no matter how many turns you take at it, it sounds and actually is suspiciously like BULL SHIT. transferring BTC to buy VRC, would have helped, indeed. Transferring VRC would actually have the opposite effect,. so what was the purpose? And whatever happened to those 200,000 coins. These are very simple, straight6forward answers that would take less than 5 seconds to post... why are you refusing to do it? They are not going to go away... Those numbers aren't false. You just have a misconception of what the numbers represent. False would imply there is inaccuracy within the numbers, which in fact there is not. No need to be a dick about it. |
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MAD945
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August 10, 2014, 05:22:46 AM |
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why is the 24 high at 28M when total coins is only 26M? i would like to know that too Yeah the stake is not directly coins. It's a coin weight that includes coinage (time since last earned interest for each coin). It's essentially normalized including coinage and is close to the total coins staking but a bit more complex. Nonetheless this is some historic staking for POS I suspect and is near the realistic maximum. Impressive show of community strength! Kudos to all you guys! Go VeriCoin! Hey Doug, at the end pf the day you are going to have to explain this a whole lot more clearly so EVERYONE can understand because right now, before the end of the day, this is starting to sound suspiciously, very suspiciously, like a whole lot of CRAP. How can a coin that has a max of less than 26 mill coins, all already mined during the POW stage, has now 28 million coins STAKING? This is preposterous. Everyone knows that there are A LOT of coins still NOT STAKING and lying on the exchanges (I know I have quite a few and they are not staking a single VRC), so how the heck can so many coins be staking? An understandable answer, without ANY bull shit, is required rather immediately, long before the end of the day, ok? Barabbas read... https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Proof_of_Stake#Weights |
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Xosihc
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August 10, 2014, 05:24:13 AM |
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EVERY ONE THE NETWORK STAKE IS NOT THE SAME AS THE AMOUNT OF COINS STAKING THAT IS JUST THE "STAKE WEIGHT" OF THE NETWORK
I hope this cleared up any confusion.
Posting again Nope, this doesn't clear anything. How many COINS are staking? Plain and simple. And what the heck is "stake weight" of the Network? I have to completely agree with barabbas on this one. The two questions I have, that I think the public should get clear answers to are: 1. How is staking weight calculated. 2. How is interest calculated from a compounding point of view. What I mean by this is the fact ScottAllyn I believe it was today was explaining how there is actually an advantage to having your wallet connected to the network 24/7 vs. connecting to the network once a month or once a year due to compounding interest. Well what is the calculation we can follow to determine what that payout would be? For example if I started the year with 100,000 coins and simply connected my wallet to the network 1 year later at an average interest rate of 2.25% I would clearly have: 100,225 coins. How many coins I would end up with though if I connected my wallet once a month vs. once a week vs. 24/7. Obviously this is all written in the code somewhere so there is a reference point to all of this. I'm not asking Socal this (no offense) or any other BTCtalk supporters - I think this should be answered by the devs themselves. *Edit: the reason I ask question #2 is because at some point the math would determine when it becomes worth while to compound your interest 24/7 vs. yearly. It would be nice as an investor to know these equations as well as the numbers involved so I can make an educated decision on what to do. The followup answer I got today in the IRC channel was "well if you have a lot of coins it's probably worth while". Instead of trying to guess what "a lot of coins" is, I would rather know the exact number. haha derp... I mean to say 102,250 coins for the 1 year interest on 100,000 coins @ 2.25% interest. Forgot a decimal place  |
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pnosker
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August 10, 2014, 05:25:24 AM |
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EVERY ONE THE NETWORK STAKE IS NOT THE SAME AS THE AMOUNT OF COINS STAKING THAT IS JUST THE "STAKE WEIGHT" OF THE NETWORK
I hope this cleared up any confusion.
Posting again Nope, this doesn't clear anything. How many COINS are staking? Plain and simple. And what the heck is "stake weight" of the Network? I have to completely agree with barabbas on this one. The two questions I have, that I think the public should get clear answers to are: 1. How is staking weight calculated. 2. How is interest calculated from a compounding point of view. What I mean by this is the fact ScottAllyn I believe it was today was explaining how there is actually an advantage to having your wallet connected to the network 24/7 vs. connecting to the network once a month or once a year due to compounding interest. Well what is the calculation we can follow to determine what that payout would be? For example if I started the year with 100,000 coins and simply connected my wallet to the network 1 year later at an average interest rate of 2.25% I would clearly have: 100,225 coins. How many coins I would end up with though if I connected my wallet once a month vs. once a week vs. 24/7. Obviously this is all written in the code somewhere so there is a reference point to all of this. I'm not asking Socal this (no offense) or any other BTCtalk supporters - I think this should be answered by the devs themselves. *Edit: the reason I ask question #2 is because at some point the math would determine when it becomes worth while to compound your interest 24/7 vs. yearly. It would be nice as an investor to know these equations as well as the numbers involved so I can make an educated decision on what to do. The followup answer I got today in the IRC channel was "well if you have a lot of coins it's probably worth while". Instead of trying to guess what "a lot of coins" is, I would rather know the exact number. 1. NetworkStakeWeight (known in the code as netstakeweight, nNetworkWeight and GetPoSKernelPS depending on context) is calculated using a weighted sum of combined total coins staking multiplied by the coin age factor. Coin age is something that allows coins to accrue interest over time, so if that particular coin in your wallet didn't stake for a long time, the value of its stake increases proportionally to the amount of time since last staked or sent. The visible network stake weight is a factor that is a combined score of both the amount of coins staking as well as the coin age. So if everyone has their coins staking, and on average it takes a week to stake coins, the network stake will be somewhere around 30 M (total supply of 26.8M in this example). If someone has never staked for 3 months and starts staking, they will inflate the value slightly as their coin age will effectively cause them to stake more than normal until their coin age resets. So that could increase the network stake to ~32M for example. 2. Interest is compounded continuously with consideration of the 8 hour "cooldown" period after a successful stake. Essentially, it's compounded at every ~8 hours or so, on average. |
Support the VeriFund Endowment.
VRC: VFEndownxxnHea9mv59kZx8c7TysGbndYx
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barabbas
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1000
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August 10, 2014, 05:26:39 AM |
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Who is playing with VRC buy / sell? Some people really manipulating price. Yes this has been happening the past two weeks or so either whales accumulating or a well funded attack trying to kill VRC by artificially suppressing the price either way all we have to do is buy out the manipulators and NOT DUMP and there will be a clear shot back up. EDIT: Just something to think about if you take the time to dig back through the posts and the market graphs you will see a well coordinated FUD attack that coincided with the drop in price and subsequent suppression. That tells me there's either some big whales that know this is a good coin and wanted in cheap OR bag holders from other coins that want to see VRC fail because we threaten them. This, again, is your usual bullshit. The truth is that there's a lot of people willing to sell their coins -and actually selling them- for lower and lower prices. All the rest is simply bullshit, nothing else. Now, considering that \the staking numbers are absolutely false, that explains a lot. I will be awaiting for Doug's CLEAR explanation of exactly how many real coins are staking... and, by the way,m since the numbers provided are false, what's the use of those sites that are supposed to tell us how many coins are staking at a given moment and what the max and min of the day are? What a whole ball of crap this is resulting to be! And I don't want to hear ANY bullshit any more, ok? Oh and by the way, Patrick, there's a very specific question hanging since it happened that you have refused to answer (correctly): Exactly in what way would your transfer of 200,000 VRC to the exchange "help stabilizing" the price? Because, no matter how many turns you take at it, it sounds and actually is suspiciously like BULL SHIT. transferring BTC to buy VRC, would have helped, indeed. Transferring VRC would actually have the opposite effect,. so what was the purpose? And whatever happened to those 200,000 coins. These are very simple, straight6forward answers that would take less than 5 seconds to post... why are you refusing to do it? They are not going to go away... Those numbers aren't false. You just have a misconception of what the numbers represent. False would imply there is inaccuracy within the numbers, which in fact there is not. No need to be a dick about it. Opinions are just like assholes, as you know. I will repeat once again: The numbers are, indeed, FALSE. Period. Now, since this is the truth, lets get and understandable explanation as to how those FALSE numbers have come to happen. And, while we are at it, lets get a measure that is very simple and very clear that tells everyone EXACTLY how many coins are staking are any given moment and what the highs and lows of the 24-hour period are. REAL, not bullshit numbers, ok. Bullshit numbers only create confusion and suspicion, no matter that they maybe somehow "explainable". So let's get it from the horse's mouth, first how those FALSE NUMBERS occur and then, which are the REAL numbers and how we can look at them. We should be able to see, at any given moment, the BULLSHIT numbers and the REAL numbers. So I will be waiting for those answers whether you consider that I am a dick or I consider you are an asshole, ok? |
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davided
Member
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Activity: 96
Merit: 10
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August 10, 2014, 05:27:01 AM |
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It's sad to see the price dropping.What happended!
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socal
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August 10, 2014, 05:29:06 AM |
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Manipulation, but like all things it too will pass and we will be back on the uptrend, as long as we stay positive as a community, continue to spread the word about VRC, don't dump and the Devs keep on delivering like they have been.
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barabbas
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1000
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August 10, 2014, 05:32:45 AM |
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EVERY ONE THE NETWORK STAKE IS NOT THE SAME AS THE AMOUNT OF COINS STAKING THAT IS JUST THE "STAKE WEIGHT" OF THE NETWORK
I hope this cleared up any confusion.
Posting again Nope, this doesn't clear anything. How many COINS are staking? Plain and simple. And what the heck is "stake weight" of the Network? I have to completely agree with barabbas on this one. The two questions I have, that I think the public should get clear answers to are: 1. How is staking weight calculated. 2. How is interest calculated from a compounding point of view. What I mean by this is the fact ScottAllyn I believe it was today was explaining how there is actually an advantage to having your wallet connected to the network 24/7 vs. connecting to the network once a month or once a year due to compounding interest. Well what is the calculation we can follow to determine what that payout would be? For example if I started the year with 100,000 coins and simply connected my wallet to the network 1 year later at an average interest rate of 2.25% I would clearly have: 100,225 coins. How many coins I would end up with though if I connected my wallet once a month vs. once a week vs. 24/7. Obviously this is all written in the code somewhere so there is a reference point to all of this. I'm not asking Socal this (no offense) or any other BTCtalk supporters - I think this should be answered by the devs themselves. *Edit: the reason I ask question #2 is because at some point the math would determine when it becomes worth while to compound your interest 24/7 vs. yearly. It would be nice as an investor to know these equations as well as the numbers involved so I can make an educated decision on what to do. The followup answer I got today in the IRC channel was "well if you have a lot of coins it's probably worth while". Instead of trying to guess what "a lot of coins" is, I would rather know the exact number. 1. NetworkStakeWeight (known in the code as netstakeweight, nNetworkWeight and GetPoSKernelPS depending on context) is calculated using a weighted sum of combined total coins staking multiplied by the coin age factor. Coin age is something that allows coins to accrue interest over time, so if that particular coin in your wallet didn't stake for a long time, the value of its stake increases proportionally to the amount of time since last staked or sent. The visible network stake weight is a factor that is a combined score of both the amount of coins staking as well as the coin age. So if everyone has their coins staking, and on average it takes a week to stake coins, the network stake will be somewhere around 30 M (total supply of 26.8M in this example). If someone has never staked for 3 months and starts staking, they will inflate the value slightly as their coin age will effectively cause them to stake more than normal until their coin age resets. So that could increase the network stake to ~32M for example. 2. Interest is compounded continuously with consideration of the 8 hour "cooldown" period after a successful stake. Essentially, it's compounded at every ~8 hours or so, on average. Not good enough. In several fronts Patrick. First of all, your explanation of the BULLSHIT staking numbers, may or may not be academically correct who gives a shit. What counts here is the simple question: How many REAL coins are staking, whether they have been staking for months or just 2 seconds ago. Simple, isn't it. Now, that shorted out (when it is, and when there's a real tracking site, device, whatever that keeps it up to date instead of the BULLSHIT numbers), how many coins are staking right now? Real coins, that is? How many were the max and min in the last 24 hours? And Patrick, one more time: What was the purpose of that 200,000 VRC transferred to the exchange and whatever happened to them? Not answering, just won't do. |
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Bobsurplus
Legendary
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Activity: 1008
Merit: 1000
Making money since I was in the womb! @emc2whale
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August 10, 2014, 05:33:49 AM |
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It's sad to see the price dropping.What happended!
Ummmmm.... Does a RollBack sound familiar to you? |
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barabbas
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1000
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August 10, 2014, 05:34:21 AM |
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Manipulation, but like all things it too will pass and we will be back on the uptrend, as long as we stay positive as a community, continue to spread the word about VRC, don't dump and the Devs keep on delivering like they have been.
How do you stay positive -rhetorical question, of course, I wouldn't expect any intelligent answer from you just like I wouldn't expect from a rock- when you see that the coins you are supporting all of a sudden seem to magically have multiplied? |
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barabbas
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1000
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August 10, 2014, 05:37:25 AM |
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Do I hear crickets??
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socal
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August 10, 2014, 05:41:38 AM |
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to any of you with questions or concerns about the multipool check out this kickass payout I just got running at only 3 MH/s Scrypt (this is my first payout since yesterday and if I stopped mining now I would continue to get payouts for another day or two)  EDIT: I misspoke I didn't "Just" get it I got it about 9 hours ago but I just now checked my wallet lol |
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MAD945
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August 10, 2014, 05:42:23 AM |
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Do I hear crickets??
Barabbas, Patrick just answered your question...the stake can not be calculated without the coin weight included. |
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barabbas
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1000
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August 10, 2014, 05:53:43 AM |
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Do I hear crickets??
Barabbas, Patrick just answered your question...the stake can not be calculated without the coin weight included. Excuse me?? What you say is that, in reality, it is impossible to know how many coins are staking, REAL COINS, at any and all times? Is that it?. Because if that is it, I can't think of any bigger bullshit I have heard in my entire -and quite long- life so far... So, that is to say that for a coin with 26.8 million coins presently, -which, according to you, are impossible to account for, so it will be an arbitrary, perhaps approximate number-, it is OK to have 30 million or even more coins staking at any given moment? All of that while the exchanges are loaded with MILLIONS of coins available for trading, which are NOT staking? Is that what you are saying? Let me get it from the horse's mouth because my fingers are really itching to type what I am coming with if this bullshit position is even pretended to be maintained... Now, since you seem to be answering for Patrick (crickets), what is your answer to the transfer of 200,000 VRC to the exchange "to help stabilize the price"? and whatever happened to them? I'm sure you will have abundant answers for those two floaters also... |
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Xosihc
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August 10, 2014, 05:57:14 AM |
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2. Interest is compounded continuously with consideration of the 8 hour "cooldown" period after a successful stake. Essentially, it's compounded at every ~8 hours or so, on average.
Hey, thanks for the quick reply! So from my understanding if one was to stake 24/7 the compounding period would be every 8 hours. So the difference between staking once a year vs. 24/7 would be as follows? Staking once a year: (FV) = 100,000*(1+0.0225) = 102,250 VRC Staking 24/7 (FV) = 100,000*(1+(0.0225/(365*3)))^(365*3))= 102,275.5 So you basically get an extra 0.02% of interest  |
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Poll
