Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[cypherdoc]

Sorry for OT, but I need your advice fellow posters (and this thread needs more posts)…

My parents recently asked me to help them with their investment portfolios (they're retired and in their 60s).  They don't have pensions, so it's important that they avoid excessive risks with their capital.  But my opinion is sitting 90% in cash, bonds, GICs (excluding real estate) is actually more risky.  

They presently have about 1.7% of their non-real estate assets as bitcoin.  How high do you think I could suggest they push this without it being viewed as "reckless" should things work out poorly?  

Honeybadger is bleeding to death. What's next guys?

For alot of us,  it'll need to get into single digits before we feel any pain. And we'll also be big buyers well before it gets there.

I do feel bad for those who got in higher than this. Hell, I feel bad for myself as I've been buying small chunks on the way down. But I'm not worried for the long term as nothings changed in the fundamentals. In fact, those are better. Maybe we are in the equivalent stage of the NASDAQ crash of 2001. Apple was at 12.

BTW, gold certainly is not UP. You've got plenty to be worried about.

Wowow. I bought in at $550. lol

Such investmenting

Well then, sell now if you feel so bad.

[devphp]

Wowow. I bought in at $550. lol

Such investmenting

Diversify, dude. Even Doge will fare better than Bitcoin. Don't let your money go to waste for nothing.

[FNG]

Wowow. I bought in at $550. lol

Such investmenting

Diversify, dude. Even Doge will fare better than Bitcoin. Don't let your money go to waste for nothing.

wtf is with the doge pump overload the past couple of days....fuck off already

[devphp]

Wowow. I bought in at $550. lol

Such investmenting

Diversify, dude. Even Doge will fare better than Bitcoin. Don't let your money go to waste for nothing.

wtf is with the doge pump overload the past couple of days....fuck off already

You sound agitated. That's a sign of uncertainty.

[cypherdoc]

Sorry for OT, but I need your advice fellow posters (and this thread needs more posts)…

My parents recently asked me to help them with their investment portfolios (they're retired and in their 60s).  They don't have pensions, so it's important that they avoid excessive risks with their capital.  But my opinion is sitting 90% in cash, bonds, GICs (excluding real estate) is actually more risky.  

They presently have about 1.7% of their non-real estate assets as bitcoin.  How high do you think I could suggest they push this without it being viewed as "reckless" should things work out poorly?  

Honeybadger is bleeding to death. What's next guys?

For alot of us,  it'll need to get into single digits before we feel any pain. And we'll also be big buyers well before it gets there.

I do feel bad for those who got in higher than this. Hell, I feel bad for myself as I've been buying small chunks on the way down. But I'm not worried for the long term as nothings changed in the fundamentals. In fact, those are better. Maybe we are in the equivalent stage of the NASDAQ crash of 2001. Apple was at 12.

BTW, gold certainly is not UP. You've got plenty to be worried about.

Wowow. I bought in at $550. lol

Such investmenting

Well then, sell now if you feel so bad.

Early adopter with nothing to lose? Thanks for the advice

I helped fund a major portion of the Bitcoin economy  early on when it was not in any way clear it was going to make it especially during the down turn from 32 to 2. So yes, I do have a lot to lose. There were guys all over here just like you crying foul and trying to scare everyone.

So what's your excuse?

[FNG]

Wowow. I bought in at $550. lol

Such investmenting

Diversify, dude. Even Doge will fare better than Bitcoin. Don't let your money go to waste for nothing.

wtf is with the doge pump overload the past couple of days....fuck off already

You sound agitated. That's a sign of uncertainty.

It's a sign of me being annoyed by the influx of dogetards

[devphp]

It's a sign of me being annoyed by the influx of dogetards

You feel annoyed because your position is vulnerable, like anyone else's whose only crypto is Bitcoin.

[cypherdoc]

It's a sign of me being annoyed by the influx of dogetards

You feel annoyed because your position is vulnerable, like anyone else's whose only crypto is Bitcoin.

And your constant shilling here for POS, despite claiming you were done with this thread, indicates you are worried that your investment in pos is vulnerable.

[devphp]

It's a sign of me being annoyed by the influx of dogetards

You feel annoyed because your position is vulnerable, like anyone else's whose only crypto is Bitcoin.

And your constant shilling here for POS, despite claiming you were done with this thread, indicates you are worried that your investment in pos is vulnerable.

You're shilling for Bitcoin, telling newbies to buy a losing investment and be bagholders for early adopters who are in this position:

it'll need to get into single digits before we feel any pain.

Oh and I didn't mention PoS. I said to hedge against Bitcoin decline. They need to research themselves what to hedge with.

[ssmc2]

Hey devphp try the dogetalk forums 

[Peter R]

BlindMayorBitcorn, you're suffering from a version of the "I-don't-want-to-make-early-adopters-rich" fallacy:

The forum is slow today, so I thought I'd share a thought that hit me yesterday.  

"I don't want to make early adopters rich."

I've heard this said in person and I've read it in reader comments on MSM articles.  But is doesn't actually make sense.  The benefit to early adopters moving forward in time is exactly the same as to adopters who choose to buy today.  Early adopters may already be rich, but if that's true then it's already happened.  As of right now, it is just as risky to continue to hold, as it is to choose to buy.  

Consider this:  Alice and Bob each have $1,000,000 in financial assets.  Alice is an early adopter of bitcoin and holds half her wealth in BTC.  Bob just learned about bitcoin today, and holds 100% of his wealth in US treasuries and stocks.  The risk Bob takes by moving $500,00 into BTC simply puts him at the same risk level as Alice moving forward in time.  The fact that Alice's bitcoins performed well in the past has no bearing on portfolio allocation moving forward.  Alice choosing to continue to hold $500,000 in bitcoin is just as risky as Bob deciding to buy $500,000 of BTC.  

The public cannot make early adopters un-rich by not investing in bitcoin.  And by investing in bitcoin, the public makes early and current investors rich to the exact same degree from this point in time moving forward.

[cypherdoc]

It's a sign of me being annoyed by the influx of dogetards

You feel annoyed because your position is vulnerable, like anyone else's whose only crypto is Bitcoin.

And your constant shilling here for POS, despite claiming you were done with this thread, indicates you are worried that your investment in pos is vulnerable.

You're shilling for Bitcoin, telling newbies to buy a losing investment and be bagholders for early adopters who are in this position:

it'll need to get into single digits before we feel any pain.

Oh and I didn't mention PoS. I said to hedge against Bitcoin decline. They need to research themselves what to hedge with.

Once again, you totally distort and misunderstand the situation.

My definition of a  shill is someone who is paid to temporarily jump into an issue they don't fundamentally understand and push an agenda for a vested interest. This thread and my position as an early adopter is the antithesis of that. Basically, you're taking the idiotic position that because I said what I did in that quote, that anything positive I have to say about Bitcoin should be disregarded.

Well, there happen to be a hell of alot of people who disagree with you if the number of views for this thread is any indication, not to mention it has  been going on for over 3 years. There are  plenty of valuable things I and others have had to say here, unlike you, that people come to read. Including you, despite your promise to exit awhile ago.

[Hunyadi]

Trolls are getting overconfident 

[ssmc2]

Trolls are getting overconfident 

This is a good sign 

[cypherdoc]

BlindMayorBitcorn, you're suffering from a version of the "I-don't-want-to-make-early-adopters-rich" fallacy:

[quote author =Peter R link=topic=517759.msg5723326#msg5723326 date=1394948300]
The forum is slow today, so I thought I'd share a thought that hit me yesterday.  

"I don't want to make early adopters rich."

I've heard this said in person and I've read it in reader comments on MSM articles.  But is doesn't actually make sense.  The benefit to early adopters moving forward in time is exactly the same as to adopters who choose to buy today.  Early adopters may already be rich, but if that's true then it's already happened.  As of right now, it is just as risky to continue to hold, as it is to choose to buy.  

Consider this:  Alice and Bob each have $1,000,000 in financial assets.  Alice is an early adopter of bitcoin and holds half her wealth in BTC.  Bob just learned about bitcoin today, and holds 100% of his wealth in US treasuries and stocks.  The risk Bob takes by moving $500,00 into BTC simply puts him at the same risk level as Alice moving forward in time.  The fact that Alice's bitcoins performed well in the past has no bearing on portfolio allocation moving forward.  Alice choosing to continue to hold $500,000 in bitcoin is just as risky as Bob deciding to buy $500,000 of BTC.  

The public cannot make early adopters un-rich by not investing in bitcoin.  And by investing in bitcoin, the public makes early and current investors rich to the exact same degree from this point in time moving forward.

What if Bob didn't have jack shit to begin with. Just sayin'
[/quote]

The whole early adopter argument is ludicrous. They  took enormous risks with hard earned fiat to get this project off the ground.

Furthermore, name one other investment in the world that doesn't have this early adopter dynamic.

[cypherdoc]

Trolls are getting overconfident 

Am I a troll because I dare speak to the all powerful wealthy elite?

Who's saying you can't speak?

Its what you say that matters.

[Peter R]

What if Bob didn't have jack shit to begin with. Just sayin'

My example works with $1,000,000, with $100,000 or with $10,000 of financial assets.  If Bob truly had nothing, then even if he mined a few thousand coins in 2010, he would have probably sold them for a few thousand dollar first chance he got.  It takes a very special type of person to hold a large number of bitcoins--with no other significant assets--over the several orders of magnitude growth in price we've witnessed.  

There's this strange belief among some newbies that people who had 1,000+ BTC in 2010 still have 1,000+ BTC.  In the vast majority of cases, this is patently false.  Most "early adopters" have been divesting in order to rebalance their portfolios, otherwise they'd end up with 99% of their wealth in bitcoin (and a severe case of insomnia lol).  In fact, many "early adopters" divested far too much and now push their favourite foo-coin, hoping for another chance.  

If we see another growth spurt, and if you are holding a non-negligible amount of bitcoins, you'll understand for yourself how strong the pressure to diversify out of bitcoin is.  If you don't divest on the way up, you'll panic sell at the bottom of the proceeding crash.  This is bitcoin's distribution mechanism in action.  

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

What if Bob didn't have jack shit to begin with. Just sayin'

My example works with $1,000,000, with $100,000 or with $10,000 of financial assets.  If Bob truly had nothing, then even if he mined a few thousand coins in 2010, he would have probably sold them for a few thousand dollar first chance he got.  It takes a very special type of person to hold a large number of bitcoins--with no other significant assets--over the several orders of magnitude growth in price we've witnesses. 

There's this strange belief among some newbies that people who had 1,000+ BTC in 2010 still have 1,000+ BTC.  In the vast majority of cases, this is patently false.  Most "early adopters" have been divesting in order to rebalance their portfolios, otherwise they'd end up with 99% of their wealth in bitcoin (and a severe case of insomnia lol).  In fact, many "early adopters" divested far too much and now push their favourite foo-coin, hoping for another chance. 

If we see another growth spurt, and if you are holding a non-neglible amount of bitcoins, you'll understand for yourself how strong the pressure to diversify out of bitcoin is.  If you don't divest on the way up, you'll panic sell at the bottom of the proceeding crash.  This is bitcoin's distribution mechanism in action. 

I see your point

[cypherdoc]

Trolls are getting overconfident 

Am I a troll because I dare speak to the all powerful wealthy elite?

Who's saying you can't speak?

Its what you say that matters.

Maybe there should have been more people like Gavin Andresen warning people about the risks of buying a remarkable new tool at nevertheless outrageously inflated prices?

This is precisely why you're going to have a bad time in this thread;  that suggestion is idiotic.

How is Gavin, of all people supposed to know what is an outrageous price?  And how's it his responsibility? You made the choice to invest at 550. That's your problem.

[Zangelbert Bingledack]

Although this is old hat for many here, I put together a little explanation that may help people see how mining difficulty affects the bitcoin price.





Think about how much money was invested, both by consumers and manufacturers, into pushing the difficulty up several orders of magnitude over the past year. That's all money that could have and arguably would have been invested into driving the BTC price up. A lot of the fresh fiat has been going into the mining industry instead of the price. This is of course self-limiting, and so with all that investment happening behind the scenes, when the curtain is pulled back (when buying mining equipment becomes unprofitable), without any outside reason for the investment to slow down, it should start funneling back into the price.