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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1805459 times)
brg444
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July 31, 2015, 10:06:15 PM
 #29621

Capital owners may see 3 tps as a competitive disadvantage with other value storage and transfer networks, and may be  subsequently less likely to seek a position in such a network. Gold is not a great analogy because it is limited by natural forces and is protected from competition. Open source software enjoys no such protection and will be in constant competition with alternatives with quite similar characteristics.

The other side of the spectrum (huge blocks leading to unacceptable levels of node centralization), is also unattractive. There needs to be a balance between the two, commensurate with current technological limitations but also considerate of the fact that these limitations diminish over time. This is why I like Jeff's proposal, it's small enough to not place dramatic new requirements on nodes, but also large enough to quantify and analyze the effect of maxblocksize growth.

There exist no alternative to BTC that offer uninterdictable transactions, unfreezable funds so for anyone that care about these properties Bitcoin is the only option on the market and they will pay for the privilege of using it because they are much more important to them than convenience.


"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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July 31, 2015, 10:14:04 PM
 #29622

There exist no alternative to BTC that offer uninterdictable transactions, unfreezable funds so for anyone that care about these properties Bitcoin is the only option on the market and they will pay for the privilege of using it because they are much more important to them than convenience.

First mover advantage will get you out front with a hefty lead, but you're fooling yourself if you think there is no, and will never be, competition between cryptocoins. If you believe some posters in this thread, XMR has already supplanted BTC in a technical sense.
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July 31, 2015, 10:25:36 PM
 #29623

There exist no alternative to BTC that offer uninterdictable transactions, unfreezable funds so for anyone that care about these properties Bitcoin is the only option on the market and they will pay for the privilege of using it because they are much more important to them than convenience.

First mover advantage will get you out front with a hefty lead, but you're fooling yourself if you think there is no, and will never be, competition between cryptocoins. If you believe some posters in this thread, XMR has already supplanted BTC in a technical sense.

Technical properties of the protocol have little to do with this.

ZB would likely tell you that wealth/capital has little interest in moving from one ledger to the other.

Note that am I not against increasing the Bitcoin user base and eventually accomodating more economic activity within the protocol but we should be wary of anyone wishing to "open the flood gates" without concern for centralization as it is counter-productive to our goal of establishing a sound monetary base.

I see you understand the trade-off and the necessary balance so more power to you but unfortunately it seems others have different motivations.

 

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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July 31, 2015, 10:43:20 PM
 #29624

users have the one thing that has made Bitcoin great for them being taken away; fast, easy, cheap payments.  

 Cheesy

You know what they say about kids, the truth comes out of their mouth. Seems old folks can't help but to spread lies and rewrite history.

It says everything about your character that you have travestied your traditional view of Bitcoin as sound money to support your block size position.

Retail acceptance of Bitcoin is irrelevant to its strength as a SOV. Either way, you have done nothing to disprove my argument.



how so?  by wanting Bitcoin to replace gold as sound money?  by understanding that key to achievement of that goal is for Bitcoin to be easily used/accessed cheaply by everyone worldwide?  by understanding that something virtual and intangible has a higher bar to clear to replace the physicality of gold as a SOV?

you'd better go back to school while you're young enough.

Bitcoin can replace gold as sound money without having to subsidize every transactions so they are affordable, cheap and accessible to every soul on earth.

More accessible rarely, if ever, means more valuable.

Bitcoin will succeed by attracting the most capital it can, not necessarily the most users. .

There is more economic incentive to secure and decentralize a network with 1 M users holding 10T$ worth of wealth than 1 B users under a 100 B$ market cap.

no.  Bitcoin has always been about being your own bank and taking individual responsibility for your money.  it's the ppl's money and about moving control of that money away from gvt.  it's about removing unfair subsidies to large entities and returning incentives and fairness to the individual.

therefore, the more individuals and ppl that use Bitcoin, the more decentralized and more powerful the outcome.

Again, individuals, on their own, do nothing to improve the strenght of the network. It is the capital that they bring to the table that is valuable.

I'm sorry but 100 million poor users will do little to further decentralize the Bitcoin network.

I may not support every statement behind this blog post but you really need to read this if you haven't:

http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2015/04/24_bitcoin-needs-no-changes-to-destroy-your-world.html

and this

Quote
Bitcoin not suitable currency for pervasive dominance, pushing it into every heart&mind around globe no different from religious zealotry

http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-July/009831.html

lol, what a piece of junk article.  just another MP regurgitated screed.

what's really laughable is watching little kids like you, Michael Goldstein, & Pierre Rochard dream of becoming Kings.  look, i'm already a 1 percenter and was long before Bitcoin came around.  yet i seem to see more fairness in Bitcoin's potential than you guys.  whodathunk?  i find it sad that youngsters like you can't see what's better for humanity.

furthermore, i guess you're admitting that the 1MB choke is exactly what you want; it is meant to be forever.  for you, it's about boxing out the masses and making them pay you homage.
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July 31, 2015, 10:53:17 PM
 #29625

users have the one thing that has made Bitcoin great for them being taken away; fast, easy, cheap payments.  

 Cheesy

You know what they say about kids, the truth comes out of their mouth. Seems old folks can't help but to spread lies and rewrite history.

It says everything about your character that you have travestied your traditional view of Bitcoin as sound money to support your block size position.

Retail acceptance of Bitcoin is irrelevant to its strength as a SOV. Either way, you have done nothing to disprove my argument.

There are billions if not trillions of dollars that can be served by Bitcoin AS IS. Let's not focus only on how many users we can accomodate



Sorry but if I cannot use btc as an easy form of payment then it certainly loses its appeal as a private currency.
brg444
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July 31, 2015, 10:53:43 PM
 #29626

lol, what a piece of junk article.  just another MP regurgitated screed.

what's really laughable is watching little kids like you, Michael Goldstein, & Pierre Rochard dream of becoming Kings.  look, i'm already a 1 percenter and was long before Bitcoin came around.  yet i seem to see more fairness in Bitcoin's potential than you guys.  whodathunk?  i find it sad that youngsters like you can't see what's better for humanity.

furthermore, i guess you're admitting that the 1MB choke is exactly what you want; it is meant to be forever.  for you, it's about boxing out the masses and making them pay you homage.

 Cheesy

...

the more individuals and ppl that use Bitcoin, the more decentralized and more powerful the outcome.

completely misleading, sounds like a new religion.

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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July 31, 2015, 11:05:10 PM
 #29627

lol, what a piece of junk article.  just another MP regurgitated screed.

what's really laughable is watching little kids like you, Michael Goldstein, & Pierre Rochard dream of becoming Kings.  look, i'm already a 1 percenter and was long before Bitcoin came around.  yet i seem to see more fairness in Bitcoin's potential than you guys.  whodathunk?  i find it sad that youngsters like you can't see what's better for humanity.

furthermore, i guess you're admitting that the 1MB choke is exactly what you want; it is meant to be forever.  for you, it's about boxing out the masses and making them pay you homage.

 Cheesy

...

the more individuals and ppl that use Bitcoin, the more decentralized and more powerful the outcome.

completely misleading, sounds like a new religion.

lol, your arguments have dwindled to nothing except for a smiley face and you resort to bringing in assistance.  haha.
brg444
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July 31, 2015, 11:10:50 PM
 #29628

users have the one thing that has made Bitcoin great for them being taken away; fast, easy, cheap payments.  

 Cheesy

You know what they say about kids, the truth comes out of their mouth. Seems old folks can't help but to spread lies and rewrite history.

It says everything about your character that you have travestied your traditional view of Bitcoin as sound money to support your block size position.

Retail acceptance of Bitcoin is irrelevant to its strength as a SOV. Either way, you have done nothing to disprove my argument.

There are billions if not trillions of dollars that can be served by Bitcoin AS IS. Let's not focus only on how many users we can accomodate



Sorry but if I cannot use btc as an easy form of payment then it certainly loses its appeal as a private currency.

Hopefully you can't realise BTC offers much more than a private, transactional currency.

Moreover:

Quote
Precisely.  And as "just a payment system" Bitcoin is not an especially great one: The design requirements for decenteralization
impose considerable costs.  To the extent that the technology in Bitcoin is useful at all for building "just another payment system" this technology in in the process of being agressively copied by parties with deep fiat relationships (including in partnership with centeral banks).  If the focus for Bitcoin's competative advantage
becomes exclusively "better" payments then it will almost certinatly fail in the market-place against competing systems which avoid the Bitcoin currency adoption related obsticles (but also gain none of Bitcoin's important social/political promise).

Also, critically, if Bitcoin's security properties are manintained and enhanced then Bitcoin can be used to build secure systems which _also_ accomidate those applications and we can have both. But if Bitcoin'ssecurity properties are not strong then then advanced tools cannot be built for it. E.g. atomic swaps make trustless trades with external systems possible; but they are especially sensitive to long reorginizations by miners... so they can only be securely used where
those reorgs are infeasable.  So while I agree that we must be willing to tolerate not catching every conceivable use case; most of the time all that means is addressing them via a less direct but more focused solution rather than ignoring them completely.

http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-July/009729.html

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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July 31, 2015, 11:11:35 PM
 #29629

lol, your arguments have dwindled to nothing except for a smiley face and you resort to bringing in assistance.  haha.

You have failed repeatedly to make any valid argument in your last dozen posts. (Other than everyone should get free stuff of course)

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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July 31, 2015, 11:12:07 PM
 #29630

lol, what a piece of junk article.  just another MP regurgitated screed.

what's really laughable is watching little kids like you, Michael Goldstein, & Pierre Rochard dream of becoming Kings.  look, i'm already a 1 percenter and was long before Bitcoin came around.  yet i seem to see more fairness in Bitcoin's potential than you guys.  whodathunk?  i find it sad that youngsters like you can't see what's better for humanity.

furthermore, i guess you're admitting that the 1MB choke is exactly what you want; it is meant to be forever.  for you, it's about boxing out the masses and making them pay you homage.

 Cheesy

...

the more individuals and ppl that use Bitcoin, the more decentralized and more powerful the outcome.

completely misleading, sounds like a new religion.

lol, your arguments have dwindled to nothing except for a smiley face and you resort to bringing in assistance.  haha.

there:

If you want to transact on the Bitcoin blockchain and can't there is a window to acquire that ability cheaply. Enough Bitcoin to transact on the blockchain for all the future can be had for far less than its actual worth. If however you want to try to feed seven billion hungry mouths with hope, social media, and spam there is probably going to be an altcoin released to help you keep pretending in the not too distant future.
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July 31, 2015, 11:21:21 PM
 #29631

lol, what a piece of junk article.  just another MP regurgitated screed.

what's really laughable is watching little kids like you, Michael Goldstein, & Pierre Rochard dream of becoming Kings.  look, i'm already a 1 percenter and was long before Bitcoin came around.  yet i seem to see more fairness in Bitcoin's potential than you guys.  whodathunk?  i find it sad that youngsters like you can't see what's better for humanity.

furthermore, i guess you're admitting that the 1MB choke is exactly what you want; it is meant to be forever.  for you, it's about boxing out the masses and making them pay you homage.

 Cheesy

...

the more individuals and ppl that use Bitcoin, the more decentralized and more powerful the outcome.

completely misleading, sounds like a new religion.

lol, your arguments have dwindled to nothing except for a smiley face and you resort to bringing in assistance.  haha.

there:

If you want to transact on the Bitcoin blockchain and can't there is a window to acquire that ability cheaply. Enough Bitcoin to transact on the blockchain for all the future can be had for far less than its actual worth. If however you want to try to feed seven billion hungry mouths with hope, social media, and spam there is probably going to be an altcoin released to help you keep pretending in the not too distant future.

your response is no better. 

pointing to another MP site?  what's with all you guys and your Daddy complex?
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July 31, 2015, 11:29:45 PM
 #29632

lol, what a piece of junk article.  just another MP regurgitated screed.

what's really laughable is watching little kids like you, Michael Goldstein, & Pierre Rochard dream of becoming Kings.  look, i'm already a 1 percenter and was long before Bitcoin came around.  yet i seem to see more fairness in Bitcoin's potential than you guys.  whodathunk?  i find it sad that youngsters like you can't see what's better for humanity.

furthermore, i guess you're admitting that the 1MB choke is exactly what you want; it is meant to be forever.  for you, it's about boxing out the masses and making them pay you homage.

 Cheesy

...

the more individuals and ppl that use Bitcoin, the more decentralized and more powerful the outcome.

completely misleading, sounds like a new religion.

lol, your arguments have dwindled to nothing except for a smiley face and you resort to bringing in assistance.  haha.

there:

If you want to transact on the Bitcoin blockchain and can't there is a window to acquire that ability cheaply. Enough Bitcoin to transact on the blockchain for all the future can be had for far less than its actual worth. If however you want to try to feed seven billion hungry mouths with hope, social media, and spam there is probably going to be an altcoin released to help you keep pretending in the not too distant future.

your response is no better.  

pointing to another MP site?  what's with all you guys and your Daddy complex?

its not only mp, not even him that wrote the article, but yea, whatever, sorry i wouldnt fall for your bs but quote someone that finds better words than i would. you sound pretty nervous tho.

so much for credibility
brg444
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July 31, 2015, 11:34:54 PM
 #29633

you sound pretty nervous tho.

so much for credibility

frap.doc is desperate at this point  Angry


 Cheesy

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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July 31, 2015, 11:38:58 PM
 #29634

estimates are going lower and lower:

Prepare for gold prices to plunge...as low as $350

http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/30/investing/gold-prices-could-drop-to-350/index.html?category=home

Where would that scenario put the silver price?

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July 31, 2015, 11:42:57 PM
 #29635

lol, what a piece of junk article.  just another MP regurgitated screed.

what's really laughable is watching little kids like you, Michael Goldstein, & Pierre Rochard dream of becoming Kings.  look, i'm already a 1 percenter and was long before Bitcoin came around.  yet i seem to see more fairness in Bitcoin's potential than you guys.  whodathunk?  i find it sad that youngsters like you can't see what's better for humanity.

furthermore, i guess you're admitting that the 1MB choke is exactly what you want; it is meant to be forever.  for you, it's about boxing out the masses and making them pay you homage.

 Cheesy

...

the more individuals and ppl that use Bitcoin, the more decentralized and more powerful the outcome.

completely misleading, sounds like a new religion.

lol, your arguments have dwindled to nothing except for a smiley face and you resort to bringing in assistance.  haha.

there:

If you want to transact on the Bitcoin blockchain and can't there is a window to acquire that ability cheaply. Enough Bitcoin to transact on the blockchain for all the future can be had for far less than its actual worth. If however you want to try to feed seven billion hungry mouths with hope, social media, and spam there is probably going to be an altcoin released to help you keep pretending in the not too distant future.

your response is no better.  

pointing to another MP site?  what's with all you guys and your Daddy complex?

its not only mp, not even him that wrote the article, but yea, whatever, sorry i wouldnt fall for your bs but quote someone that finds better words than i would. you sound pretty nervous tho.

so much for credibility

actually, i think it's you who's projecting your insecurities. 

it should be clear to everyone involved that BIP 101 will have the economic majority onboard.
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July 31, 2015, 11:45:12 PM
 #29636

estimates are going lower and lower:

Prepare for gold prices to plunge...as low as $350

http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/30/investing/gold-prices-could-drop-to-350/index.html?category=home

Where would that scenario put the silver price?

About tree fiddy?

Get sick. Get well.
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August 01, 2015, 12:03:13 AM
 #29637

it should be clear to everyone involved that BIP 101 will have the economic majority onboard.

Quote
petertodd commented on Jun 26
Note to readers: in its current form there is a near zero chance of this getting merged due to a number of BIP-level issues in addition to debate about the patch itself. For instance, Gavin has never given any details about testing; at minimum we'd need a BIP16 style quality assurance document. We also frown on writing software with building expiration dates, let alone expiration dates that trigger non-deterministically. (Note how my recently merged CLTV considered the year 2038 problem to avoid needing a hard fork at that date)

Until these issues are addressed I an many other contributors will be muting this thread and ignoring comments until the BIP itself is fixed. Much of the discussion we see in conversations around this subject is highly repetitive and a big timesink; don't interpret silence as agreement.

You sure about that?

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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August 01, 2015, 12:21:24 AM
 #29638



friday humour  Roll Eyes

somebody at zero hedge trying to link the spam attack with the Grexit.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-31/spot-greek-referendum
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August 01, 2015, 12:31:34 AM
 #29639

twobitidiot on lifting the 21M cap: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3fbfnj/digital_currency_groups_twobitidiot_calls_for/
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August 01, 2015, 12:32:16 AM
 #29640


username checks out
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