Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[tvbcof]

even if you're right about sentiment it doesn't mean it's going to get any  better.  in fact, it's likely to get much worse.

About the only way it could get worse is if central banks, Chinese, Indians, and Russians were to dump all the physical gold they've accumulated. The exhaustion spike is due, and that's just the paper game unfolding - the tail wagging the dog for just a little bit longer.

Where is the supply of real metal coming from?

look.  we're at $1600/oz.  it could get alot worse.

and just how much delight would Ben and the Wall St banks get from a forced selloff in gold?

I think we all agree that BTC has a vastly higher upside potential than gold.

One of the places were gold has an edge is that Bitcoin is a concept and a block chain.  The concept is now out there, and there are plenty of places where different implementations could end up having some popular advantages.

There is no difference between the Bitcoin blockchain and others except for a first-move advantage.

Gold on the other hand is a unique atomic structure and the only way of replicating it currently costs vastly more than it's value.  True, it has a first-move mindshare advantage as well, but it's been proven over an amazingly long time.  Unlike the Bitcoin blockchain.

All this is to say that Bitcoin has certain risks even if it does not fail do to internet transport molestation or architectural failures.

As always, I balance my portfolio based on these risk/rewards as I see them and continue to have felt no inclination to change that balance for the last year and a half.  That's just me though.  If I had only just heard of Bitcoin and had no BTC, it is almost certain that I would liquidate some of my PM's to take on a BTC position.

[thefiniteidea]

Asteroid Mining

"Gold has intrinsic properties that make it valuable. However, it does not have intrinsic value."

Gold is valuable because it is rare, making it more difficult to mine. Thus, it has a very long record of demand, further supporting its value.

However, will gold be just as valuable when we can mine substantial amounts of it? With asteroid mining becoming more of a reality in the next 50 years, gold may very well lose its status as one of the more popular stores of wealth.


I wonder what will take it's place? hmm... 

[xxjs]

So gold is going down, but why? I don't understand it.

[lebing]

So gold is going down, but why? I don't understand it.

Electronic forms of gold are going down (because there are widespread rumors that there is not as much gold as they say they have in reserves) and hence the world price is going down.

[tvbcof]

So gold is going down, but why? I don't understand it.

Electronic forms of gold are going down (because there are widespread rumors that there is not as much gold as they say they have in reserves) and hence the world price is going down.

If one is interested in obtaining physical, it is a delightful thing to have the price dragged down by paper market artifacts.  This has happened again and again over the last decade, and it has served me very well.

[conspirosphere.tk]

chart of the day:



(I did not sold all my gold for BTC 1 year ago and I was wrong. But even now I sleep much better holding gold)

other chart of the day, from: http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article39037.html :

[marcus_of_augustus]

So gold is going down, but why? I don't understand it.

Electronic forms of gold are going down (because there are widespread rumors that there is not as much gold as they say they have in reserves) and hence the world price is going down.

If one is interested in obtaining physical, it is a delightful thing to have the price dragged down by paper market artifacts.  This has happened again and again over the last decade, and it has served me very well.

At some point the physical market will disconnect from the paper/digital gold markets.

There will be an independent quote of gold coin market averages that differs from the "official" gold spot price (which may have 7 years delivery delays and other hooks attached, etc).

[xxjs]

So gold is going down, but why? I don't understand it.

Electronic forms of gold are going down (because there are widespread rumors that there is not as much gold as they say they have in reserves) and hence the world price is going down.

If one is interested in obtaining physical, it is a delightful thing to have the price dragged down by paper market artifacts.  This has happened again and again over the last decade, and it has served me very well.

At some point the physical market will disconnect from the paper/digital gold markets.

There will be an independent quote of gold coin market averages that differs from the "official" gold spot price (which may have 7 years delivery delays and other hooks attached, etc).

Interesting view.

[cypherdoc]

So gold is going down, but why? I don't understand it.

Electronic forms of gold are going down (because there are widespread rumors that there is not as much gold as they say they have in reserves) and hence the world price is going down.

If one is interested in obtaining physical, it is a delightful thing to have the price dragged down by paper market artifacts.  This has happened again and again over the last decade, and it has served me very well.

At some point the physical market will disconnect from the paper/digital gold markets.

There will be an independent quote of gold coin market averages that differs from the "official" gold spot price (which may have 7 years delivery delays and other hooks attached, etc).

Interesting view.

i think they are all going to be wrong on this.

[Melbustus]

chart of the day:



(I did not sold all my gold for BTC 1 year ago and I was wrong. But even now I sleep much better holding gold)

other chart of the day, from: http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article39037.html :

I'd like to see these on greater timescales. Those charts are pretty interesting and clearly show that the relationship has tightly held for the past 15yrs or so. But what about the 1970s or 80s? I don't recall (cuz I was in grade-school), but I doubt the debt-ceiling was DEcreased in the 80s when the gold price dropped.

[molecular]

So gold is going down, but why? I don't understand it.

Electronic forms of gold are going down (because there are widespread rumors that there is not as much gold as they say they have in reserves) and hence the world price is going down.

If one is interested in obtaining physical, it is a delightful thing to have the price dragged down by paper market artifacts.  This has happened again and again over the last decade, and it has served me very well.

At some point the physical market will disconnect from the paper/digital gold markets.

There will be an independent quote of gold coin market averages that differs from the "official" gold spot price (which may have 7 years delivery delays and other hooks attached, etc).

Well said and I agree. Bullion dealers will simply adjust their premiums. This happens because there will be shortages and what do you do when your supply is going too fast? Right, you adjust your price.

[Vladimir]

So gold is going down, but why? I don't understand it.

Electronic forms of gold are going down (because there are widespread rumors that there is not as much gold as they say they have in reserves) and hence the world price is going down.

If one is interested in obtaining physical, it is a delightful thing to have the price dragged down by paper market artifacts.  This has happened again and again over the last decade, and it has served me very well.

At some point the physical market will disconnect from the paper/digital gold markets.

There will be an independent quote of gold coin market averages that differs from the "official" gold spot price (which may have 7 years delivery delays and other hooks attached, etc).

Well said and I agree. Bullion dealers will simply adjust their premiums. This happens because there will be shortages and what do you do when your supply is going too fast? Right, you adjust your price.

  Absolutely!. I cannot agree more with what you guys said. This is indeed a long held conviction of "proper" gold bugs. Physical gold only is to be held. The price of paper gold will eventually reflect the price of assets that is backing it. How much tungsten worth these days? I've heard prices on tungsten are rising too.  

  It seems that disconnect in prices between paper and real gold is bound to happen sooner or later. One cannot lie to all the people on the planet indefinitely. Sooner or later the market as a price discovery mechanism will discover the true price of paper gold.

  Gold is very much similar to Bitcoin in this regard. You do not hold it in your hands you do not own it.

[miscreanity]

At some point the physical market will disconnect from the paper/digital gold markets.

There will be an independent quote of gold coin market averages that differs from the "official" gold spot price (which may have 7 years delivery delays and other hooks attached, etc).

Well said and I agree. Bullion dealers will simply adjust their premiums. This happens because there will be shortages and what do you do when your supply is going too fast? Right, you adjust your price.

Look at this from a different angle: assume legislative controls have been set in place, locking prices of all goods, and declaring no business may charge greater than a 5% premium on any good.

If the premium had previously been 10% on gold, then the price of gold will be the same as it was before (price controls), and the 5% premium would ensure that any dealers unable to stay in business at that level would run out of stock or close. In addition, those businesses remaining would be unable to acquire supply if any competition outside of the country were to arise, as having a frozen premium rate means room for negotiating on cost is non-existent.

Put simply: we have a choice of rising prices or increasing shortages. Price stability makes government look good; shortages make businesses look bad. Politicians can blame businessmen and assume greater control over industry.

[molecular]

At some point the physical market will disconnect from the paper/digital gold markets.

There will be an independent quote of gold coin market averages that differs from the "official" gold spot price (which may have 7 years delivery delays and other hooks attached, etc).

Well said and I agree. Bullion dealers will simply adjust their premiums. This happens because there will be shortages and what do you do when your supply is going too fast? Right, you adjust your price.

Look at this from a different angle: assume legislative controls have been set in place, locking prices of all goods, and declaring no business may charge greater than a 5% premium on any good.

If the premium had previously been 10% on gold, then the price of gold will be the same as it was before (price controls), and the 5% premium would ensure that any dealers unable to stay in business at that level would run out of stock or close. In addition, those businesses remaining would be unable to acquire supply if any competition outside of the country were to arise, as having a frozen premium rate means room for negotiating on cost is non-existent.

Put simply: we have a choice of rising prices or increasing shortages. Price stability makes government look good; shortages make businesses look bad. Politicians can blame businessmen and assume greater control over industry.

Empty shelves don't make politicians look good. Price fixing never works, I assume we agree on that, and fixing price too low will inevitably lead to shortages. So what are you saying? This "legaslation" would happen at some point for gold (for all goods?)? The military police will force farmers to grow food for low prices? Noone would be a farmer any more. That's no viable option, that's deliberate destruction of the economy.

Put simply: your option of increasing shortages is not really an option.

It might be continuing for gold (those paper gold markets are just a way to "fix" the price of gold artificially low) for a while and the buyers of physical are going to continue to be happy about that. It's not sustainable, though: the free market will win.

[smoothie]

Cypher,

Stop slacking! You need to post now that we are at 599% and counting....rising...etc.
 

[cypherdoc]

Cypher,

Stop slacking! You need to post now that we are at 599% and counting....rising...etc.
 

Yawn.   I'm bored.  

I guess selling all my silver back in early 2011 wasn't such a bad idea after all,  eh?

Seriously though, I decided to buy a couple of avalons,  so I've been busy in the mining forum.  

Asics going to blow this thing wide open.

[cypherdoc]

The Silver parity Thunderclap is going to cause a Slingshot Effect 

[paraipan]

...

Seriously though, I decided to buy a couple of avalons,  so I've been busy in the mining forum.  

Asics going to blow this thing wide open.

Yep, me too. Now let's hope the guy delivers 

[cypherdoc]

Gold and Silver down; Bitcoin UP.

[oakpacific]

Yawn.   I'm bored.  

I guess selling all my silver back in early 2011 wasn't such a bad idea after all,  eh?

Seriously though, I decided to buy a couple of avalons,  so I've been busy in the mining forum.  

Asics going to blow this thing wide open.

What the heck, did you imply that you are half-converted into a geek already?