[XMR] Monero Speculation

[Johnny Mnemonic]

I thought demand for sound money such as bitcoin would be huge given how pervasive and insidious the counterfeiting of fiat currencies is. It turns out that people don't really care that much.

that's how common knowledge works...until it doesn't.

Inside our tiny bubble it's easy to forget just how little the average person gives a shit about the evils of our current monetary system.

Not that anyone would want to fuss with crypto even if they did care. It's inconvenient to get, inconvenient to use, and offers little incentive to the regular old dude who just wants to swipe his credit card and get on with life.

The idea that incentivizing people to hold somehow improves the success of crypto is absurd and a rather narrow perspective in my opinion. A successful currency is one that people use (read: spend), not one that everybody collectively sits on and waits for the value to increase. That's not a currency at all.

Many of us refer to Bitcoin and Monero as cryptocurrencies but we don't actually want them to be currencies. We just want the market cap to go up to infinity so we can get richer and buy more stupid shit we don't need.

The sad irony is that the prices will never reach "the moon" until we stop serving ourselves and start focusing on improving the lives of everyone else.

TL;DR: Currencies are about commerce. Let's focus on improving that. Approaching crypto from an investor perspective and focusing on ROI will never get the rest of the world to start using it. An increasing market cap is a symptom of success, but if that's our goal then we're doing it wrong.

[tokeweed]

I thought demand for sound money such as bitcoin would be huge given how pervasive and insidious the counterfeiting of fiat currencies is. It turns out that people don't really care that much.

that's how common knowledge works...until it doesn't.

Inside our tiny bubble it's easy to forget just how little the average person gives a shit about the evils of our current monetary system.

Not that anyone would want to fuss with crypto even if they did care. It's is inconvenient to get, inconvenient to use, and offers little incentive to the regular old dude who just wants to swipe his credit card and get on with life.

The idea that incentivizing people to hold somehow improves the success of crypto is absurd and a rather narrow perspective in my opinion. A successful currency is one that people use (read: spend), not one that everybody collectively sits on and waits for the value to increase. That's not a currency at all.

Many of us refer to Bitcoin and Monero as cryptocurrencies but we don't actually want them to be currencies. We just want the market cap to go up to infinity so we can get richer and buy more stupid shit we don't need.

The sad irony is that the prices will never reach "the moon" until we stop serving ourselves and start focusing on improving the lives of everyone else.

So true. Haha

[vokain]

Magic Mirror on the wall, who is the fairest one of them all?

[GingerAle]

I thought demand for sound money such as bitcoin would be huge given how pervasive and insidious the counterfeiting of fiat currencies is. It turns out that people don't really care that much.

that's how common knowledge works...until it doesn't.

Inside our tiny bubble it's easy to forget just how little the average person gives a shit about the evils of our current monetary system.

Not that anyone would want to fuss with crypto even if they did care. It's inconvenient to get, inconvenient to use, and offers little incentive to the regular old dude who just wants to swipe his credit card and get on with life.

The idea that incentivizing people to hold somehow improves the success of crypto is absurd and a rather narrow perspective in my opinion. A successful currency is one that people use (read: spend), not one that everybody collectively sits on and waits for the value to increase. That's not a currency at all.

Many of us refer to Bitcoin and Monero as cryptocurrencies but we don't actually want them to be currencies. We just want the market cap to go up to infinity so we can get richer and buy more stupid shit we don't need.

The sad irony is that the prices will never reach "the moon" until we stop serving ourselves and start focusing on improving the lives of everyone else.

TL;DR: Currencies are about commerce. Let's focus on improving that. Approaching crypto from an investor perspective and focusing on ROI will never get the rest of the world to start using it. An increasing market cap is a symptom of success, but if that's our goal then we're doing it wrong.

Exactly. And its been pointed out before that one of the theoretical reasons for the shape of the emission curve was to encourage distribution, and all this talk of pushing the price up is fighting that. I'll be honest - if I had come into monero and it was 5$ a coin, I wouldn't have bought in. Thats because I'm relatively broke and shouldn't be throwing money at cryptocurrencies. But at $0.20 a coin, it was in this "eh, sure, why not?" space. Logical? I dunno - but thats what I did.

So, theoretically, the value of Monero is exactly where it should be - based on current usage and demand and emission. Its not artificially inflated by some staking system. Should efforts to be made to keep hodlers happy? perhaps. Is one of these efforts some type of investment vehicle that provides returns? Perhaps.

I mean, the emissions!! - I remember looking at coinmarketcap the other day and going "7 million? " I coulda sworn it was just 6 million. So, in a blink of an eye, 1 million more monero have popped into existence. 1,000,000.

Like I've mentioned before, if the key to this is hodling, the key to hodling is getting the coins out of those that don't hodl. One route to this is creating a massive mining farm. A 1 megahash farm would cost 357k USD and use approx 107 kw. These numbers just based on 750 ti cards at 100$ / pop. This would cost 93k / year in electricity at 10 cents per kwh. Maybe score an industry site get better rate. Sure, this is centralization.

[pandher]

Monero price is what it should be, we need cheap coins to get new people in. The focus should be on getting in new people, not the price at this time.

How many of you have introduced Monero to someone known?

[GingerAle]

Monero price is what it should be, we need cheap coins to get new people in. The focus should be on getting in new people, not the price at this time.

How many of you have introduced Monero to someone known?

Most of my friends / family think cryptocurrencies aren't real, so.... i need to go to a bitcoin meetup.

[DaveyJones]

Monero price is what it should be, we need cheap coins to get new people in. The focus should be on getting in new people, not the price at this time.

How many of you have introduced Monero to someone known?

Most of my friends / family think cryptocurrencies aren't real, so.... i need to go to a bitcoin meetup.

Same here, either they think it is not real.... or they don´t care for altcoins just BTC

[medusa13]

i do try to get friends involved, family not so much, but i invest for them too with my own money, try to take care for the family of course
also i talk at work about cryptos, since many people are interested there.

I would like to announce that today i payed my lunch with monero:)

yeah i also spent monero allready. mostly to friends i owe money to, so i pay my debt with monero if they like one of them has over 1k allready
good job, thats how we create them bagholders

[MataKhobRazi]

When I talk about cryptocurrencies to my friend or family, they think I am stupid and laugh at me. There is only my brother who seems to be convinced but he is a student in computer science (and a fan of technology) so I don't know if this plays a role !

[shmadz]

When I talk about cryptocurrencies to my friend or family, they think I am stupid and laugh at me. There is only my brother who seems to be convinced but he is a student in computer science (and a fan of technology) so I don't know if this plays a role !

Lol, when I started talking to my family and friends about bitcoin was just before that first run up to $32 - unfortunate timing as the crash confirmed for them that crypto was a scam. I try not to talk about it much anymore, I think people need to figure it out for themselves mostly.. maybe I'm just a poor salesman 

Anyway, back on topic, very happy to see price retrace to 0.002 - I think it would be difficult to go lower. (No technical reason, just personal experience and when I think "I can get 500 Monero for just one bitcoin?" It makes me send funds to polo  )

Cheers!

[MalMen]

How many of you have introduced Monero to someone known?

I already commented this... This week I forgot my wallet home, one of my coworkers brought me the lunch and I payed him back in monero
18 monero total

[jehst]

Are Monero denominated prediction markets, stocks, and games not commerce? Some kinds of commerce are better are increasing demand for a currency than other forms of commerce. Demand for a currency determines its exchange rate against other currencies.
If we do not agree on that, then there is no possibility of conversation.

[komputadora]

I thought demand for sound money such as bitcoin would be huge given how pervasive and insidious the counterfeiting of fiat currencies is. It turns out that people don't really care that much.

that's how common knowledge works...until it doesn't.

Inside our tiny bubble it's easy to forget just how little the average person gives a shit about the evils of our current monetary system.

Not that anyone would want to fuss with crypto even if they did care. It's inconvenient to get, inconvenient to use, and offers little incentive to the regular old dude who just wants to swipe his credit card and get on with life.

The idea that incentivizing people to hold somehow improves the success of crypto is absurd and a rather narrow perspective in my opinion. A successful currency is one that people use (read: spend), not one that everybody collectively sits on and waits for the value to increase. That's not a currency at all.

Many of us refer to Bitcoin and Monero as cryptocurrencies but we don't actually want them to be currencies. We just want the market cap to go up to infinity so we can get richer and buy more stupid shit we don't need.

The sad irony is that the prices will never reach "the moon" until we stop serving ourselves and start focusing on improving the lives of everyone else.

TL;DR: Currencies are about commerce. Let's focus on improving that. Approaching crypto from an investor perspective and focusing on ROI will never get the rest of the world to start using it. An increasing market cap is a symptom of success, but if that's our goal then we're doing it wrong.

haha... well said!

[Johnny Mnemonic]

Are Monero denominated prediction markets, stocks, and games not commerce? Some kinds of commerce are better are increasing demand for a currency than other forms of commerce. Demand for a currency determines its exchange rate against other currencies.
If we do not agree on that, then there is no possibility of conversation.

Of course those things are commerce. But they serve a very narrow group of people (rich white males) who don't really need any more convincing. They don't exactly fall into the "everyone else" category.

My brother is a perfect example of "everyone else." He's not a technical person. He's not an investor beyond contributing to his 401k or his kid's college fund. For him, money is a tool not a toy, and the fiat stuff works just fine. It buys his groceries and pays his mortgage. It pays for the gas in his car once a week when he visits the pump. These are all things that most people use money for, and for most people, crypto is completely useless.

[Johnny Mnemonic]

Monero price is what it should be, we need cheap coins to get new people in. The focus should be on getting in new people, not the price at this time.

How many of you have introduced Monero to someone known?

Most of my friends / family think cryptocurrencies aren't real, so.... i need to go to a bitcoin meetup.

I'm hoping that's a joke... text makes it hard to tell sometimes 

Preaching the merits of cryptocurrency at a bitcoin meetup doesn't exactly spread the word.

[dreamspark]

Serious lack of volume today.

Normally happens before a big move.

The question as always.... which way ?

[jehst]

Are Monero denominated prediction markets, stocks, and games not commerce? Some kinds of commerce are better are increasing demand for a currency than other forms of commerce. Demand for a currency determines its exchange rate against other currencies.
If we do not agree on that, then there is no possibility of conversation.

Of course those things are commerce. But they serve a very narrow group of people (rich white males) who don't really need any more convincing. They don't exactly fall into the "everyone else" category.

My brother is a perfect example of "everyone else." He's not a technical person. He's not an investor beyond contributing to his 401k or his kid's college fund. For him, money is a tool not a toy, and the fiat stuff works just fine. It buys his groceries and pays his mortgage. It pays for the gas in his car once a week when he visits the pump. These are all things that most people use money for, and for most people, crypto is completely useless.

Oh, I see. So your vision is to see widespread crypto used by average people to buy groceries, gas, and pay the mortgage. That's possible, but I don't see it happening within 10 years.
Remittances are a more realistic use for regular folks within the next few years.

I'm not going to attempt the math here, but something like Crypto-Kingdom (which soaks up a few percent of XMR for a long period of time) would actually require as much XMR as millions of dollars worth of remittances sent back and forth by hundreds or thousands of people people who want to hold XMR for the shortest amount of time possible. This is due to the velocity of money.

Even if all forms of commerce are generally good for a currency, you get more "bang for your buck" by creating services that soak up XMR for longer periods of time.

IMO, speculation and niche use cases (both involving mostly males  (many of them Asian, by the way)) will dominate cryptocurrency for the next 10 years. That's what we have to work with. I'm not saying it's a good thing. When I"m brainstorming, I have this demographic in mind.

[iCEBREAKER]

My brother is a perfect example of "everyone else." He's not a technical person. He's not an investor beyond contributing to his 401k or his kid's college fund. For him, money is a tool not a toy, and the fiat stuff works just fine. It buys his groceries and pays his mortgage. It pays for the gas in his car once a week when he visits the pump. These are all things that most people use money for, and for most people, crypto is completely useless.

Complacent lumpenbourgeoisie like our brothers ("Durr...I like to consume, reproduce, and trade freedom for security") won't GAS until the Great Reset begins in their Homeland. 

They, not crypto, are the "completely useless" entities.  Crypto is a tool.  Our brothers, the playthings of Babylon, are the toys.

But not everyone lives in America or another stable country.

Billions of other people live in places like Yemen, Libya, Ukraine, Cyprus, Argentina, and Venezuela, where their money loses looses purchasing power by the day, and sometimes the hour.

[Johnny Mnemonic]

Are Monero denominated prediction markets, stocks, and games not commerce? Some kinds of commerce are better are increasing demand for a currency than other forms of commerce. Demand for a currency determines its exchange rate against other currencies.
If we do not agree on that, then there is no possibility of conversation.

Of course those things are commerce. But they serve a very narrow group of people (rich white males) who don't really need any more convincing. They don't exactly fall into the "everyone else" category.

My brother is a perfect example of "everyone else." He's not a technical person. He's not an investor beyond contributing to his 401k or his kid's college fund. For him, money is a tool not a toy, and the fiat stuff works just fine. It buys his groceries and pays his mortgage. It pays for the gas in his car once a week when he visits the pump. These are all things that most people use money for, and for most people, crypto is completely useless.

Oh, I see. So your vision is to see widespread crypto used by average people to buy groceries, gas, and pay the mortgage. That's possible, but I don't see it happening within 10 years.
Remittances are a more realistic use for regular folks within the next few years.

I'm not going to attempt the math here, but something like Crypto-Kingdom (which soaks up a few percent of XMR for a long period of time) would actually require as much XMR as millions of dollars worth of remittances sent back and forth by hundreds or thousands of people people who want to hold XMR for the shortest amount of time possible. This is due to the velocity of money.

Even if all forms of commerce are generally good for a currency, you get more "bang for your buck" by creating services that soak up XMR for longer periods of time.

IMO, speculation and niche use cases (both involving mostly males  (many of them Asian, by the way)) will dominate cryptocurrency for the next 10 years. That's what we have to work with. I'm not saying it's a good thing. When I"m brainstorming, I have this demographic in mind.

Correct. I'd like to move toward building a currency that can eventually compete with fiat.

When we speculate on the possibility of seeing 6 or 7 figure prices per unit, we're really commenting on a massive adoption scenario. Whether it happens in 10 years or 2 years (or never) depends on how we approach the currency's utility to the widest demographic.

[Johnny Mnemonic]

My brother is a perfect example of "everyone else." He's not a technical person. He's not an investor beyond contributing to his 401k or his kid's college fund. For him, money is a tool not a toy, and the fiat stuff works just fine. It buys his groceries and pays his mortgage. It pays for the gas in his car once a week when he visits the pump. These are all things that most people use money for, and for most people, crypto is completely useless.

Complacent lumpenbourgeoisie like our brothers ("Durr...I like to consume, reproduce, and trade freedom for security") won't GAS until the Great Reset begins in their Homeland. 

They, not crypto, are the "completely useless" entities.  Crypto is a tool.  Our brothers, the playthings of Babylon, are the toys.

But not everyone lives in America or another stable country.

Billions of other people live in places like Yemen, Libya, Ukraine, Cyprus, Argentina, and Venezuela, where their money loses looses purchasing power by the day, and sometimes the hour.

I wasn't suggesting the concept of crypto is useless (I wouldn't be here if that were the case), only that current implementations cannot be easily used by even the most desperate of oppressed peoples.