[XMR] Monero Speculation

[BlockaFett]

I'm here because i just spent 2 days arguing with them during their 'bum-rush' of the CoinMarketCap thread and when I asked them basic questions they run off.
...
If your toxic devs weren't ... I wouldn't be here.

If you are saying that you are here bent on retaliation, then you are welcome to leave.

If you have substantive points to make, you're welcome to make them, but continuing to repeat that Monero devs are "toxic" according to you "toxic" because we feel that instamined coins should be clearly identified as such does not count as substantive points.

My substantive point is that it's my opinion that Monero's value is being rapidly reduced by the toxic actions/behaviour of the Monero core devs (LIKE YOU) and I am giving the reasons for that and asking your investors to fix it for 3 reasons 1) You are taking up a hell of a lot of other people's time including me 2) you are saying 'fuck you' to every Monero investor when you do this sh*t  3) you are the biggest hypocrite on BCT I ever saw - how can you even show your face to your community when you are doing this instead of ***developing***.  

You jumping in here within 5 seconds and trying to police that / silence me is hardly surprising.

[drawingthesun]

How does Bytecoin have a higher market cap than Monero? Jeez we're not doing well....

[smooth]

I'm here because i just spent 2 days arguing with them during their 'bum-rush' of the CoinMarketCap thread and when I asked them basic questions they run off.
...
If your toxic devs weren't ... I wouldn't be here.

If you are saying that you are here bent on retaliation, then you are welcome to leave.

If you have substantive points to make, you're welcome to make them, but continuing to repeat that Monero devs are "toxic" according to you "toxic" because we feel that instamined coins should be clearly identified as such does not count as substantive points.

My substantive point is that it's my opinion that Monero's value is being rapidly reduced by the toxic actions/behaviour of the Monero core devs (LIKE YOU) and I am giving the reasons for that and asking your investors to fix it for 3 reasons 1) You are taking up a hell of a lot of other people's time including me 2) you are saying 'fuck you' to every Monero investor when you do this sh*t  3) you are the biggest hypocrite on BCT I ever saw - how can you even show your face to your community when you are doing this instead of ***developing***.  

You jumping in here within 5 seconds and trying to police that / silence me is hardly surprising.

BlockaFett, if I wanted to police/silence you here, your posts would already be deleted.

What evidence is there for Poloniex being a "fake exchange"?

Who pointed out the crippled mining code to us?

[drawingthesun]

My substantive point is that it's my opinion that Monero's value is being rapidly reduced by the toxic actions/behaviour of the Monero core devs (LIKE YOU) and I am giving the reasons for that and asking your investors to fix it for 3 reasons 1) You are taking up a hell of a lot of other people's time including me 2) you are saying 'fuck you' to every Monero investor when you do this sh*t  3) you are the biggest hypocrite on BCT I ever saw - how can you even show your face to your community when you are doing this instead of ***developing***.  

You jumping in here within 5 seconds and trying to police that / silence me is hardly surprising.

Whilst I fully trust and believe in the Monero developers, I can understand where you're coming from, they shouldn't be wasting too much time doing stuff like this and instead they should be using that time to develop the software.

EDIT: Although, looking over your posts you do seem to exhibit troll like behavior, perhaps they do need to spend their time cleaning up your mess.

I am divided.

[smooth]

How does Bytecoin have a higher market cap than Monero? Jeez we're not doing well....

I'm pretty sure Risto explained that a while back. If you own all of something, you can make the market cap be whatever you want. No one else can sell to drive the price down, but that doesn't mean they could sell their coins for that amount either.

Market cap is only meaningful to the extent there is liquidity to support it.

drawingthesun, Monero is not a one man show like some other coins. We have a large group of core team members, developers, contributors, and academics (with some overlap between these groups). Everyone adds something to the project. Some people basically just code, some focus on networking and speaking at conferences, some on organization and planning, some on forum presence, some on end user or merchant support, some on testing, some on cryptography and design issues, etc. I'm kind of jack of all trades, although I don't speak at conferences, and I only code a relatively small amount. I pretty much do everything else.

Considering that I'm a 100% volunteer like the rest of the core team, and I devote a shit ton of fully uncompensated time to the project, in addition to supplying both resources and money to the project out of my own pocket, I don't really believe anyone has standing to tell me to do any particular thing or how to spend my time. If you see someone doing that, they have an agenda. Figure out what it is. (Same goes for anyone else on the core team of course, just speaking for myself here to keep it simple.)

[drawingthesun]

How does Bytecoin have a higher market cap than Monero? Jeez we're not doing well....

I'm pretty sure Risto explained that a while back. If you own all of something, you can make the market cap whatever you want. No one else can sell to drive the price down, but that doesn't mean they could sell their coins for that amount either.

Market cap is only meaningful to the extent there is liquidity to support it.

This is actually a good point.
We know for sure that at least 80% of the coin supply is owned by a small handful of individuals.

This is like Ripple. If none of you remember when Ripple first came out a small allocation was released for public circulation. The market cap of Ripple quickly exceeded $1,000,000,000 and then surpassed Bitcoin itself.

[BlockaFett]

I'm here because i just spent 2 days arguing with them during their 'bum-rush' of the CoinMarketCap thread and when I asked them basic questions they run off.
...
If your toxic devs weren't ... I wouldn't be here.

If you are saying that you are here bent on retaliation, then you are welcome to leave.

If you have substantive points to make, you're welcome to make them, but continuing to repeat that Monero devs are "toxic" according to you "toxic" because we feel that instamined coins should be clearly identified as such does not count as substantive points.

My substantive point is that it's my opinion that Monero's value is being rapidly reduced by the toxic actions/behaviour of the Monero core devs (LIKE YOU) and I am giving the reasons for that and asking your investors to fix it for 3 reasons 1) You are taking up a hell of a lot of other people's time including me 2) you are saying 'fuck you' to every Monero investor when you do this sh*t  3) you are the biggest hypocrite on BCT I ever saw - how can you even show your face to your community when you are doing this instead of ***developing***.  

You jumping in here within 5 seconds and trying to police that / silence me is hardly surprising.

BlockaFett, if I wanted to police/silence you here, your posts would already be deleted.

What evidence is there for Poloniex being a "fake exchange"?

Who pointed out the crippled mining code to us?

"BlockaFett, if I wanted to police/silence you here, your posts would already be deleted."  Except then you would look more scammy than you already do.

"What evidence is there for Poloniex being a "fake exchange"? I don't - it's a subjective opinion.  People don't need to prove opinion's Smooth, this is basic argumentation.

"Who pointed out the crippled mining code to us?" I don't know but this suggests that you don't either?  Why are you asking me?

So I responded to your questions, but main thing I notice is you evaded my point - interesting that you don't deny the real point I am making, on this, a thread speculating on Monero value.

[smooth]

"BlockaFett, if I wanted to police/silence you here, your posts would already be deleted."  Except then you would look more scammy than you already do.

Not really, most people can tell you are hostile and arguably trolling (by its true definition, not how it is used on some other coin threads to label every unfavorable opinion).

"What evidence is there for Poloniex being a "fake exchange"? I don't - it's a subjective opinion.  People don't need to prove opinion's Smooth, this is basic argumentation.

Okay so your basic argumentation for maligning a well-respected business in the community is that Monero is big on there, and you don't like Monero, therefore the exchange must be fake? Correct me if I have that wrong.

"Who pointed out the crippled mining code to us?" I don't know but this suggests that you don't either?  Why are you asking me?

You claimed that:

according to them they at least removed the scam code embedded in the software that they admitted gave the developers a deliberate and unfair advantage after other people had to point it out to them

Now I'm not aware of that being the case, so one of two things are going on here: 1) you know something that I don't know, or 2) you are making shit up. Which is it?

So I responded to your questions, but main thing I notice is you evaded my point - interesting that you don't deny the real point I am making, on this, a thread speculating on Monero value.

I actually don't even know what your "real point" is. I mostly see a lot of (apparently) made up statements.

[obit33]

I'm here because i just spent 2 days arguing with them during their 'bum-rush' of the CoinMarketCap thread and when I asked them basic questions they run off.
...
If your toxic devs weren't ... I wouldn't be here.

If you are saying that you are here bent on retaliation, then you are welcome to leave.

If you have substantive points to make, you're welcome to make them, but continuing to repeat that Monero devs are "toxic" according to you "toxic" because we feel that instamined coins should be clearly identified as such does not count as substantive points.

My substantive point is that it's my opinion that Monero's value is being rapidly reduced by the toxic actions/behaviour of the Monero core devs (LIKE YOU) and I am giving the reasons for that and asking your investors to fix it for 3 reasons 1) You are taking up a hell of a lot of other people's time including me 2) you are saying 'fuck you' to every Monero investor when you do this sh*t  3) you are the biggest hypocrite on BCT I ever saw - how can you even show your face to your community when you are doing this instead of ***developing***.  

You jumping in here within 5 seconds and trying to police that / silence me is hardly surprising.

BlockaFett, if I wanted to police/silence you here, your posts would already be deleted.

What evidence is there for Poloniex being a "fake exchange"?

Who pointed out the crippled mining code to us?

"BlockaFett, if I wanted to police/silence you here, your posts would already be deleted."  Except then you would look more scammy than you already do.

"What evidence is there for Poloniex being a "fake exchange"? I don't - it's a subjective opinion.  People don't need to prove opinion's Smooth, this is basic argumentation.

"Who pointed out the crippled mining code to us?" I don't know but this suggests that you don't either?  Why are you asking me?

So I responded to your questions, but main thing I notice is you evaded my point - interesting that you don't deny the real point I am making, on this, a thread speculating on Monero value.

djeezes dude, I've been reading the forum for several years now, I almost never post... but I gotta say, you are the worst discussion-partner I ever read, this isn't even trolling, it's worse...

best regards though, and good luck in life with your 'opinions'

[ddink7]

Off topic posts will be removed. Off topic includes any extensive discussion of other coins, promoting other coins, or posting of promotional materials from other coins.

That's weird...don't you do that all the time in the Dash thread?

[drawingthesun]

"What evidence is there for Poloniex being a "fake exchange"? I don't - it's a subjective opinion.  People don't need to prove opinion's Smooth, this is basic argumentation.

Actually you're very much wrong in this regard.
Basic argumentation is the art of backing ones argument up with some type of source or logical reasoning.

Stating a baseless opinion without even attempting to strengthen its assertion with some reasoning doesn't make for a very convincing argument.

[smooth]

Off topic posts will be removed. Off topic includes any extensive discussion of other coins, promoting other coins, or posting of promotional materials from other coins.

That's weird...don't you do that all the time in the Dash thread?

No, I don't. I discuss Dash there generally, although often the response to anything I say about Dash is often "blah blah blah Monero blah blah blah" so it comes up. A lot. Or more recently using the insulting moniker Trollero. Very classy. But I certainly don't spam it there or anywhere, or even bring it up at all.

Also, is that a self-moderated thread with a charter? Or is it an open thread for discussion, both favorable and unfavorable?

[drawingthesun]

Off topic posts will be removed. Off topic includes any extensive discussion of other coins, promoting other coins, or posting of promotional materials from other coins.

That's weird...don't you do that all the time in the Dash thread?

I could be wrong, but a lot of our chatter in the DASH thread involves either pointing out DASH's flaws or defending Monero against false claims.
We do not intend for our discussion over there to extend into the "extensive discussion" category.

[BlockaFett]

I'm here because i just spent 2 days arguing with them during their 'bum-rush' of the CoinMarketCap thread and when I asked them basic questions they run off.
...
If your toxic devs weren't ... I wouldn't be here.

If you are saying that you are here bent on retaliation, then you are welcome to leave.

If you have substantive points to make, you're welcome to make them, but continuing to repeat that Monero devs are "toxic" according to you "toxic" because we feel that instamined coins should be clearly identified as such does not count as substantive points.

My substantive point is that it's my opinion that Monero's value is being rapidly reduced by the toxic actions/behaviour of the Monero core devs (LIKE YOU) and I am giving the reasons for that and asking your investors to fix it for 3 reasons 1) You are taking up a hell of a lot of other people's time including me 2) you are saying 'fuck you' to every Monero investor when you do this sh*t  3) you are the biggest hypocrite on BCT I ever saw - how can you even show your face to your community when you are doing this instead of ***developing***.  

You jumping in here within 5 seconds and trying to police that / silence me is hardly surprising.

BlockaFett, if I wanted to police/silence you here, your posts would already be deleted.

What evidence is there for Poloniex being a "fake exchange"?

Who pointed out the crippled mining code to us?

"BlockaFett, if I wanted to police/silence you here, your posts would already be deleted."  Except then you would look more scammy than you already do.

"What evidence is there for Poloniex being a "fake exchange"? I don't - it's a subjective opinion.  People don't need to prove opinion's Smooth, this is basic argumentation.

"Who pointed out the crippled mining code to us?" I don't know but this suggests that you don't either?  Why are you asking me?

So I responded to your questions, but main thing I notice is you evaded my point - interesting that you don't deny the real point I am making, on this, a thread speculating on Monero value.

djeezes dude, I've been reading the forum for several years now, I almost never post... but I gotta say, you are the worst discussion-partner I ever read, this isn't even trolling, it's worse...

best regards though, and good luck in life with your 'opinions'

the reason I am being explicit about what I am saying is an opinion, is because your 2 core devs have been presenting *opinions* as *facts* to attack Dash and their other competitors.   For example saying that "Dash is a scam because it was instamined and [our opinion] is that he did this deliberately so that proves its a scam"  - it doesn't, but they hammer this 100s of times on various threads to try to hurt Dash in various ways, which has fallen flat on its face a everyone here know.

I think the scariest thing reading these comments, is that evidently your community *approves* of the tactics / ethics / behaviour of your 2 core devs who are destroying your own reputation and price....but hey...you do what you want with your $.

[smooth]

your 2 core devs have been presenting *opinions* as *facts* to attack Dash and their other competitors. For example saying that "Dash is a scam because it was instamined and [our opinion] is that he did this deliberately so that proves its a scam"

Is that an actual quote from one of our core devs, or another thing you just made up?

You realize when you say "For example, saying that ..." and use quotation marks you are alleging it to be a quote right?

Which "other people" (<- actual quote, btw) pointed out the crippled mining code to us?

[BlockaFett]

your 2 core devs have been presenting *opinions* as *facts* to attack Dash and their other competitors. For example saying that "Dash is a scam because it was instamined and [our opinion] is that he did this deliberately so that proves its a scam"

Is that an actual quote from one of our core devs, or another thing you just made up?

You realize when you say "For example, saying that ..." and use quotation marks you are alleging it to be a quote right?

Nope, it's called paraphrasing...quote have references to actual comments, like in my sig.  Which is hard in your case because both you and FluffyPony redact all the text you quote, I guess it makes it easier to break the conversation into little chunks to confuse the reader and just present your own arguments without the hassle of contradiction.

[farfiman]

....
I think the scariest thing reading these comments, is that evidently your community *approves* of the tactics / ethics / behaviour of your 2 core devs who are destroying your own reputation and price....but hey...you do what you want with your $.

There is nothing to approve- it's a free world.
I'm more amazed at the answers to the instamine accusation (summed up in two short statements)

1) We know there was- the community doesnt care.
2) Monero also has a scammy launch .

hilarious

[smooth]

your 2 core devs have been presenting *opinions* as *facts* to attack Dash and their other competitors. For example saying that "Dash is a scam because it was instamined and [our opinion] is that he did this deliberately so that proves its a scam"

Is that an actual quote from one of our core devs, or another thing you just made up?

You realize when you say "For example, saying that ..." and use quotation marks you are alleging it to be a quote right?

Nope, it's called paraphrasing...quote have references to actual comments, like in my sig.  Which is hard in your case because both you and FluffyPony redact all the text you quote, I guess it makes it easier to break the conversation into little chunks to confuse the reader and just present your own arguments without the hassle of contradiction.

Hmm, I would think paraphrasing would use words like "saying things like ..." or maybe "saying (paraphrasing) ..." but hey, what do I know about accurate and ethical writing?

Which "other people" (<- actual quote, btw) pointed out the crippled mining code to us?

[elrippo]

Deleted rangedriver's and elripp's replies that both quoted BlockaFett's post but added no meaningful content

So far freedom of speach goes down the drain in this forum  
The fact that BlockaFett's quoting is meaningful in your opinion, does not really raise my cocnitive aspiration.
Maybe you should consider not beeing so bullish towards your supporters....
You overshot this one pretty clearly smooth  

[BlockaFett]

....
I think the scariest thing reading these comments, is that evidently your community *approves* of the tactics / ethics / behaviour of your 2 core devs who are destroying your own reputation and price....but hey...you do what you want with your $.

There is nothing to approve- it's a free world.
I'm more amazed at the answers to the instamine accusation (summed up in two short statements)

1) We know there was- the community doesnt care.
2) Monero also has a scammy launch.

hilarious

lol - "instamine" is a generalization that implies a "fast" emission with fast being whatever the individual believes is fast for whatever their value judgement is on what emission *should be*.  And is a subjective term...the accusation that "instamine" = "scam" is an extension of that and also a subjective opinion, such as when applied to the Dash launch.  I.e. it is an unproved opinion that the Dash *developer* intentionally created the instamine and benefited from it.

However it is not an opinion apparently that Monero launch was rigged by the developers to *intentionally* give a higher % of coins to the developers than the miners:

Gliss should be impartial, and that means seperating the coins based on what actually happened and in this case, Dash had a premine or at the very least, **Significantly Fastmined**. You've mentioned Monero, but Monero has never had any of it's core parameters changed so Dash and Monero cannot be compared in the slightest.

You are correct. Dash and Monero cannot be compared in the slightest. Dash, as a fork of Litecoin at the time, suffered some issues that were related to the Litecoin code by a programmer new to the code base. It took a day or two to diagnose and fix and much longer to get a working explorer to figure out that so many blocks were created before the difficulty adjusted. There is no proof about the intentions of the developer. Monero on the other hand had code intentionally inserted with no other purpose than to make the built in miner inefficient at launch so that the developer could take advantage. Monero is the only coin being discussed here that was provably and intentionally manipulated by the developer to give themselves an advantage.

Personally, I think this is a very slippery slope. If we start trying to define new categories like "launch issues", "fast-mined" (which most PoS coins would fall into), "insta-mined", or other categories like "dishonest developer" - all categories with very subjective definitions - you'll end up in a slug-fest between competing coins trying to get their competition labeled. Thank you coinmarketcap for deciding to stay above the fray.

So much this...

Here the important word is : INTENTIONALLY, which make no doubt about Monero SCAM. Something intentional was made to give benefice of few over the others.
You got it... while other people are denying:

There was nothing wrong with the history of Monero. It's one of if not the cleanest coins and launches in history.

Just lol..

I have not researched this myself, so other people here will know if this is true or not (I assume it is because of other experience of Smooth lying daily).  But I do know that it is a fact that saying that you can prove that Dash was *intentionally* "instamined", is patently false.  And in criminal law, intention is key.