[XMR] Monero Speculation

[mrkavasaki]

Hi Guys,i have a question, if our main exchanger Pole be attacked by an Hacker, many coins would in a evil hand, so do you Guys think that would be the end of monero?

Yes, i think that would mean the end of monero
The Hacker would dump that shit in oblivion 

That Is also one of my reasons that i had sold all of my xmr

[luigi1111]

Hi Guys,i have a question, if our main exchanger Pole be attacked by an Hacker, many coins would in a evil hand, so do you Guys think that would be the end of monero?

Yes, i think that would mean the end of monero
The Hacker would dump that shit in oblivion

Are you two really the same person?

[nioc]

Hi Guys,i have a question, if our main exchanger Pole be attacked by an Hacker, many coins would in a evil hand, so do you Guys think that would be the end of monero?

Yes, i think that would mean the end of monero
The Hacker would dump that shit in oblivion 

That Is also one of my reasons that i had sold all of my xmr

As said on the main thread, the only place to sell any significant amount of coins would be on the exchange they stole from. 

Only a small percentage of Polo's total is in their hot wallets.

[DaveyJones]

Hi Guys,i have a question, if our main exchanger Pole be attacked by an Hacker, many coins would in a evil hand, so do you Guys think that would be the end of monero?

Yes, i think that would mean the end of monero
The Hacker would dump that shit in oblivion 

That Is also one of my reasons that i had sold all of my xmr

As said on the main thread, the only place to sell any significant amount of coins would be on the exchange they stole from. 

Only a small percentage of Polo's total is in their hot wallets.

kenji and mrkavasaki are the same person kenji being the sidekick of mrkavasaki

[ArticMine]

Hi Guys,i have a question, if our main exchanger Pole be attacked by an Hacker, many coins would in a evil hand, so do you Guys think that would be the end of monero?

This sounds like Bitcoin in 2011 and the MTGox hack. Bitcoin is alive; however MTGox is dead.

[kazuki49]

looks like the wallz is hodling.

[mmortal03]

Risto, don't you think chances of Poloniex being involved in margin trading themselves is 'marginal' considering the regulatory framework they've to comply to? If you get caught with that, you'd have to close shop.

Speaking of regulatory framework, the BitLicense is out, and this part stuck out at me:

"No Licensee shall engage in, facilitate, or knowingly allow the transfer or transmission of Virtual Currency when such action will obfuscate or conceal the identity of an individual customer or counterparty."

In other words, if they are using a mix-in value greater than 0 for individuals in the State of New York, might it be a problem for them?

[kazuki49]

Risto, don't you think chances of Poloniex being involved in margin trading themselves is 'marginal' considering the regulatory framework they've to comply to? If you get caught with that, you'd have to close shop.

Speaking of regulatory framework, the BitLicense is out, and this part stuck out at me:

"No Licensee shall engage in, facilitate, or knowingly allow the transfer or transmission of Virtual Currency when such action will obfuscate or conceal the identity of an individual customer or counterparty."

In other words, if they are using a mix-in value greater than 0 for individuals in the State of New York, might it be a problem for them?

Licensee means the exchange, and that it need to be like Polo is now, requiring your ID and stuff. Its not like you magically turn into batman when you use Monero with mixin.

[mmortal03]

Risto, don't you think chances of Poloniex being involved in margin trading themselves is 'marginal' considering the regulatory framework they've to comply to? If you get caught with that, you'd have to close shop.

Speaking of regulatory framework, the BitLicense is out, and this part stuck out at me:

"No Licensee shall engage in, facilitate, or knowingly allow the transfer or transmission of Virtual Currency when such action will obfuscate or conceal the identity of an individual customer or counterparty."

In other words, if they are using a mix-in value greater than 0 for individuals in the State of New York, might it be a problem for them?

Licensee means the exchange, and that it need to be like Polo is now, requiring your ID and stuff. Its not like you magically turn into batman when you use Monero with mixin.

If they transfer to another address (when you withdraw your XMR) with, say, a mix-in of 3, will they not be "knowingly allowing the transmission of Virtual Currency when such action will obfuscate or conceal the identity of an individual customer or counterparty"?

[kazuki49]

Risto, don't you think chances of Poloniex being involved in margin trading themselves is 'marginal' considering the regulatory framework they've to comply to? If you get caught with that, you'd have to close shop.

Speaking of regulatory framework, the BitLicense is out, and this part stuck out at me:

"No Licensee shall engage in, facilitate, or knowingly allow the transfer or transmission of Virtual Currency when such action will obfuscate or conceal the identity of an individual customer or counterparty."

In other words, if they are using a mix-in value greater than 0 for individuals in the State of New York, might it be a problem for them?

Licensee means the exchange, and that it need to be like Polo is now, requiring your ID and stuff. Its not like you magically turn into batman when you use Monero with mixin.

If they transfer to another address with, say, a mix-in of 3, will they not be "knowingly allowing the transmission of Virtual Currency when such action will obfuscate or conceal the identity of an individual customer or counterparty"?

Its pretty obvious that it doesnt matter the mixing it will be recorded that X amount went to address Y that belong to person Z. Now what the person do with the moneroj is not their business anymore and it cannot be, its like taking cash out of a ATM. You still have to report what you do with it tho 

[mmortal03]

Risto, don't you think chances of Poloniex being involved in margin trading themselves is 'marginal' considering the regulatory framework they've to comply to? If you get caught with that, you'd have to close shop.

Speaking of regulatory framework, the BitLicense is out, and this part stuck out at me:

"No Licensee shall engage in, facilitate, or knowingly allow the transfer or transmission of Virtual Currency when such action will obfuscate or conceal the identity of an individual customer or counterparty."

In other words, if they are using a mix-in value greater than 0 for individuals in the State of New York, might it be a problem for them?

Licensee means the exchange, and that it need to be like Polo is now, requiring your ID and stuff. Its not like you magically turn into batman when you use Monero with mixin.

If they transfer to another address with, say, a mix-in of 3, will they not be "knowingly allowing the transmission of Virtual Currency when such action will obfuscate or conceal the identity of an individual customer or counterparty"?

Its pretty obvious that it doesnt matter the mixing it will be recorded that X amount went to address Y that belong to person Z. Now what the person do with the moneroj is not their business anymore and it cannot be, its like taking cash out of a ATM.

Right, but, while technically, even transferring BTC to another address doesn't imply that they or anyone knows the individual holding them anymore, it doesn't necessarily "knowingly obfuscate or conceal the identity" like a mix-in does.

[kazuki49]

Right, but, while technically, even transferring BTC to another address doesn't imply that they or anyone knows the individual holding them anymore, it doesn't necessarily "knowingly obfuscate or conceal the identity" like a mix-in does.

I didn't know my personal ID is broadcasted in each Bitcoin tx already, if thats the case you right

[mmortal03]

Right, but, while technically, even transferring BTC to another address doesn't imply that they or anyone knows the individual holding them anymore, it doesn't necessarily "knowingly obfuscate or conceal the identity" like a mix-in does.

I didn't know my personal ID is broadcasted in each Bitcoin tx already, if thats the case you right

Right, but, in that case, then *any* withdrawal to another address in *any* cryptocurrency that doesn't tack on your identity along with it would be knowingly obfuscating or concealing your identity.

[kazuki49]

Right, but, while technically, even transferring BTC to another address doesn't imply that they or anyone knows the individual holding them anymore, it doesn't necessarily "knowingly obfuscate or conceal the identity" like a mix-in does.

I didn't know my personal ID is broadcasted in each Bitcoin tx already, if thats the case you right

Right, but, in that case, then *any* withdrawal to another address in *any* cryptocurrency that doesn't tack on your identity along with it would be knowingly obfuscating or concealing your identity.

dude are you a licensee? Unless it says that an individual need to transact in virtual currency signed with their SSN in transparent blockchains proving its them and that they are not obfuscating anything then you are right and it not only makes Monero illegal but Bitcoin mixings too. You need to prove that all transactions made to any business or other individuals are not to yourself too because you may be trying to obfuscate and no lies, I can see everything in the blockchain

[mmortal03]

Right, but, while technically, even transferring BTC to another address doesn't imply that they or anyone knows the individual holding them anymore, it doesn't necessarily "knowingly obfuscate or conceal the identity" like a mix-in does.

I didn't know my personal ID is broadcasted in each Bitcoin tx already, if thats the case you right

Right, but, in that case, then *any* withdrawal to another address in *any* cryptocurrency that doesn't tack on your identity along with it would be knowingly obfuscating or concealing your identity.

dude are you a licensee?

No, just thinking through the ramifications that may come about because of this.

[mrkavasaki]

your coin will be pretty dead soon, when polo get hacked

[mmortal03]

Another, possibly more practical, way to look at it might be that at the point where they carry out a withdrawal, you don't qualify as their customer for those funds any more. You only count as their customer for transactions done *within* their system. You could even withdraw to someone else's address directly to pay them, so there's no reason to assume that it is the customer's address or coins at that point. At least for BTC this might fly.

However, for XMR, I still think that if they are knowingly using a mix-in higher than zero, then that might be construed as obfuscating or concealing the identity of an individual customer. Obviously, practically speaking, a person can easily re-send the amount they withdrew to another address using a higher mix-in value themselves, but that's not the point here.

[kazuki49]

However, for XMR, I still think that if they are knowingly using a mix-in higher than zero, then that might be construed as obfuscating or concealing the identity of an individual customer. Obviously, practically speaking, a person can easily re-send the amount they withdrew to another address using a higher mix-in value themselves, but that's not the point here.

This would be true if they (licensee) transfer to or from a person leaving no record of it, thats not the case and should never be considered the case with any 3rd-party service, I'll wait what other people say about this but to me its pretty clear.

[smooth]

Risto, don't you think chances of Poloniex being involved in margin trading themselves is 'marginal' considering the regulatory framework they've to comply to? If you get caught with that, you'd have to close shop.

Speaking of regulatory framework, the BitLicense is out, and this part stuck out at me:

"No Licensee shall engage in, facilitate, or knowingly allow the transfer or transmission of Virtual Currency when such action will obfuscate or conceal the identity of an individual customer or counterparty."

In other words, if they are using a mix-in value greater than 0 for individuals in the State of New York, might it be a problem for them?

I don't really see it. If they are sending coins to you, then where those coins came from (which is what mixing does) is not obscuring the identify of you as their customer. They will have a record of sending coins to you, along with your KYC information. Should be good enough.

To me that sentence prohibits allowing things like straw buyers. I don't know how it would be interpreted in practice though, that's one of the problems with writing regulations for technologies that are in a fluid state of development and not even understood by the people writing the regulations.

[jwinterm]

your coin will be pretty dead soon, when polo get hacked

Do you have some inside info or something? Maybe we can get moneromooo to add a bet on his tippero bot about whether Poloniex will get hacked before some date that you specify, and then you can put your money where your (big, fat, stupid) mouth is.

Speaking of which, NBA Finals start tomorrow night. You can bet on winner in #tippero or #monero on freenode using tippero bot. Just type '!book' to check book and '!bet team amount' to bet.