[XMR] Monero Speculation

[farfiman]

...snip
I have no problem figuring out capital gains on XBT or XMR and paying the appropriate tax to the Canadian government. I do have a big problem with DRM and bootloader locked devices. The real evil is corporations such as Microsoft and Apple that push DRM to meet the greed of organizations such as the MPAA. If they had their way I would not be able to use XBT or XMR, would not have any of the capital gains and would not have to pay said taxes.
...snip

How?  Let's say you start using crypto on a daily basis- lets say 3-5 times a day. Coffee on the way to work, fill gas, buy an online newspaper, a game on playstation, and chinese food in the evening. 1000-1500 transactions in a tax year - most of them small.
How?

[ArticMine]

The real threat is not governments. It is corporations such as Microsoft and Apple who use DRM to control their customers for their own profit.

Hey, corporations aren't the ones putting a gun to your head and forcing you to pay. Don't like, don't buy.




I expect XMR price to continue decline for a while.

The pen is mightier that the sword and corporations are using DRM to control the pen. That is why DRM is so evil. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_pen_is_mightier_than_the_sword

Edit: The sword does have some uses. Here is an excellent example of using the sword to liberate the pen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuQZTAJ2KLk

[mmortal03]

...snip
I have no problem figuring out capital gains on XBT or XMR and paying the appropriate tax to the Canadian government. I do have a big problem with DRM and bootloader locked devices. The real evil is corporations such as Microsoft and Apple that push DRM to meet the greed of organizations such as the MPAA. If they had their way I would not be able to use XBT or XMR, would not have any of the capital gains and would not have to pay said taxes.
...snip

How?  Let's say you start using crypto on a daily basis- lets say 3-5 times a day. Coffee on the way to work, fill gas, buy an online newspaper, a game on playstation, and chinese food in the evening. 1000-1500 transactions in a tax year - most of them small.
How?

Exactly. And, FIFO, right? Have fun with that, buying Bitcoins, then buying Moneroj, and doing your taxes on each of *those* conversions, as well as on each purchase.

[Anon136]

I have no problem figuring out capital gains on XBT or XMR and paying the appropriate tax to the Canadian government. I do have a big problem with DRM and bootloader locked devices. The real evil is corporations such as Microsoft and Apple that push DRM to meet the greed of organizations such as the MPAA.

But you are completely free to use alternatives to their devices. The state is the only thing that could, at-least in theory, even conceivably be able to enforce the monopoly that would be necessary in order to cause drm bootloader locked devices to negatively impact your life in any serious way.

Dont get me wrong im not saying that apple and microsoft aren't evil. But what harm is an evil dog without teeth? The state is the teeth in the mouth of evil corporations.

[ArticMine]

...snip
I have no problem figuring out capital gains on XBT or XMR and paying the appropriate tax to the Canadian government. I do have a big problem with DRM and bootloader locked devices. The real evil is corporations such as Microsoft and Apple that push DRM to meet the greed of organizations such as the MPAA. If they had their way I would not be able to use XBT or XMR, would not have any of the capital gains and would not have to pay said taxes.
...snip

How?  Let's say you start using crypto on a daily basis- lets say 3-5 times a day. Coffee on the way to work, fill gas, buy an online newspaper, a game on playstation, and chinese food in the evening. 1000-1500 transactions in a tax year - most of them small.
How?

Exactly. And, FIFO, right? Have fun with that, buying Bitcoins, then buying Moneroj, and doing your taxes on each of *those* conversions, as well as on each purchase.

Actually FIFO is easier that the Canadian adjusted cost base system. I use a spreadsheet on LibreOffice calc to calculate this. Yes one does have to keep track of all expenses, but that has the added advantage of promoting fiscal prudence among citizens. In most "developed" countries the rise in poverty and the fall of the middle class is driven by debt fuelled consumption as opposed to falling incomes. This is why we see citizens and governments with ever increasing debt and corporations with ever increasing cash reserves. If the tax system makes consumption inconvenient by forcing people to track expenses that is actually a good thing. I do agree with don't buy, it is actually the easiest path to wealth for many people. A good place to start is propriety operating system licenses and bootloader locked devices.

By the way don't buy also applies to governments who could save billions of dollars by saying no to the likes of Microsoft and using FLOSS instead.

[ArticMine]

I have no problem figuring out capital gains on XBT or XMR and paying the appropriate tax to the Canadian government. I do have a big problem with DRM and bootloader locked devices. The real evil is corporations such as Microsoft and Apple that push DRM to meet the greed of organizations such as the MPAA.

But you are completely free to use alternatives to their devices. The state is the only thing that could, at-least in theory, even conceivably be able to enforce the monopoly that would be necessary in order to cause drm bootloader locked devices to negatively impact your life in any serious way.

Dont get me wrong im not saying that apple and microsoft aren't evil. But what harm is an evil dog without teeth? The state is the teeth in the mouth of evil corporations.

Have you tried to purchase a mobile device that is not bootloader locked? Ever heard of the PRISM program? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_%28surveillance_program%29 In the PRISM program the state uses corporate teeth to bite not the other way around.

Edit: Corporations are the teeth in the mouths of evil states.

[Anon136]

I have no problem figuring out capital gains on XBT or XMR and paying the appropriate tax to the Canadian government. I do have a big problem with DRM and bootloader locked devices. The real evil is corporations such as Microsoft and Apple that push DRM to meet the greed of organizations such as the MPAA.

But you are completely free to use alternatives to their devices. The state is the only thing that could, at-least in theory, even conceivably be able to enforce the monopoly that would be necessary in order to cause drm bootloader locked devices to negatively impact your life in any serious way.

Dont get me wrong im not saying that apple and microsoft aren't evil. But what harm is an evil dog without teeth? The state is the teeth in the mouth of evil corporations.

Have you tried to purchase a mobile device that is not bootloader locked? Ever heard of the PRISM program? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_%28surveillance_program%29 In the PRISM program the state uses corporate teeth to bite not the other way around.

Edit: Corporations are the teeth in the mouths of evil states.

No. This is totally wrong.

If you tried to start your own company who's value proposition was that it had pioneered innovative ways of proving that it was not compromising your security, who do you think would come after you? Dell employees? Or cops? In the absence of the state OF COURSE such a company would come into being. You and me and everyone here and many many many others would pay for that peace of mind. Do you think entrepreneurs are going to pass up the opportunity to make a ton of money off of us?

In your example the corporations are logistical specialists at best. The teeth are still the state. The one who would (literally) club you over the head if you interjected and disrupted this unholy union would be agents of the state, not the agents of microsoft.

[generalizethis]

I have no problem figuring out capital gains on XBT or XMR and paying the appropriate tax to the Canadian government. I do have a big problem with DRM and bootloader locked devices. The real evil is corporations such as Microsoft and Apple that push DRM to meet the greed of organizations such as the MPAA.

But you are completely free to use alternatives to their devices. The state is the only thing that could, at-least in theory, even conceivably be able to enforce the monopoly that would be necessary in order to cause drm bootloader locked devices to negatively impact your life in any serious way.

Dont get me wrong im not saying that apple and microsoft aren't evil. But what harm is an evil dog without teeth? The state is the teeth in the mouth of evil corporations.

Have you tried to purchase a mobile device that is not bootloader locked? Ever heard of the PRISM program? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_%28surveillance_program%29 In the PRISM program the state uses corporate teeth to bite not the other way around.

Edit: Corporations are the teeth in the mouths of evil states.

No. This is totally wrong.

If you tried to start your own company who's value proposition was that it had pioneered innovative ways of proving that it was not compromising your security, who do you think would come after you? Dell employees? Or cops? In the absence of the state OF COURSE such a company would come into being. You and me and everyone here and many many many others would pay for that peace of mind. Do you think entrepreneurs are going to pass up the opportunity to make a ton of money off of us?

In your example the corporations are logistical specialists at best. The teeth are still the state. The one who would (literally) club you over the head if you interjected and disrupted this unholy union would be agents of the state, not the agents of microsoft.

Let's add the states don't want other states eavesdropping on them and corporations don't want states or other corporations eavesdropping on them--this is much bigger than individual rights--not that that isn't reason enough to find alternatives or build more privacy solutions.

[mmortal03]

Yes one does have to keep track of all expenses, but that has the added advantage of promoting fiscal prudence among citizens.

That's pretty convoluted logic. Requiring people to keep all receipts when using cryptocurrencies, and then having them meticulously enter all of the amounts and dates into some tax program, and keeping track of every single purchase and exchange rate on the front end, really isn't going to warm them up to the technology. No, they'll just keep using credit cards or cash. It decidedly *won't* stop people from spending money in their usual ways, it'll just stop people from using cryptocurrencies.

[macsga]

Yes one does have to keep track of all expenses, but that has the added advantage of promoting fiscal prudence among citizens.

That's pretty convoluted logic. Requiring people to keep all receipts when using cryptocurrencies, and then having them meticulously enter all of the amounts and dates into some tax program, and keeping track of every single purchase and exchange rate on the front end, really isn't going to warm them up to the technology. No, they'll just keep using credit cards or cash. It decidedly *won't* stop people from spending money in their usual ways, it'll just stop people from using cryptocurrencies.

Pardon me for interrupting, but this is EXACTLY what's happening here in Greece with fiat. There has been an incentive to incorporate a "global" bank monitoring system that's embedded to the tax system as well, in order to ban tax evasion. To make it even better, nothing above 70eur will be allowed to be transacted, from anyone to anyone, without a credit card or bank account being used as an intermediate.

Death and Taxes...

[opennux]

Could we get back on topic?

[jehst]

Let's say bitcoin starts a strong bull run this week. Any thoughts on how this will affect XMR in the short term?

[Anon136]

Could we get back on topic?

Sorry you are right. It is largely my fault. I have an off topic thread for the monero community somewhere.

Well I found it... Kind of... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1007593.0 Weird... Wonder where it went and why.

[opennux]

Could we get back on topic?

Sorry you are right. It is largely my fault. I have an off topic thread for the monero community somewhere.

Well I found it... Kind of... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1007593.0 Weird... Wonder where it went and why.

Thanks 




So.... Price...   ..eh?   





If Bitcoin starts a strong bull run this week? It will probably make xmr follow, but with a lag, and an overshoot. So imminent you'd be able to pick up cheaper xmr, which would later become more expensive.

[macsga]

Let's say bitcoin starts a strong bull run this week. Any thoughts on how this will affect XMR in the short term?

I believe that the two assets are not directly connected. In the previous bear run, XMR remained stable, while BTC kept sliding down. I think that many people will seize the opportunity of the current low prices on XMR vs the bull market of BTC in order to take some more XMRs for their stash; and yes, that's what I'm after.

PS:
I'm sorry for going off topic in my previous post.

[ArticMine]

Let's say bitcoin starts a strong bull run this week. Any thoughts on how this will affect XMR in the short term?

Short term we could see .0017-18s before XMR would bounce back up.

We could see 0.0017 - 0.0018 before a bounce back up but I would not count on it. Also those hoping for lower XMR prices would be wise to watch DASH especially on a daily chart.

[smooth]

Could we get back on topic?

It's on topic in the sense that increasing intrusiveness may increase demand for private cryptocurrencies (so long term speculation as opposed to wall watching; both are on topic). Or may being bans (if e.g. cash is banned and cryptocurrencies are treated as cash). Bans could have a positive or negative effect on price, opinions differ.

A few posts may have gone a bit far afield, but as long as it is tied to demand and future price of Monero it seems okay to me.

[medusa13]

community activity low, volume very low, price not so low but also not so high. reversal is not far away, all it needs is a potent buyer to step in.
is everybody busy watching btc? are the big fish all doing holidays?
this flat times mostly dont end well short term for xmr, but mid term skies are allready bright if you ask me
if you all wait for 180k yeah chances are high we might see them, but than there are the front runners and the front runners of the front runners and so on..

also depending on btc, stars could align perfectly for a new sharp run up in fiat and also btc terms, where we take down the 1 dollar mark easily 

[kazuki49]

community activity low, volume very low, price not so low but also not so high. reversal is not far away, all it needs is a potent buyer to step in.
is everybody busy watching btc? are the big fish all doing holidays?

They will come when its too late: http://www.coindesk.com/be-vigilant-on-compliance-coinbase-warns-bitcoin-startups/

Bitcoin in the US is gone! Why? Push for regulation and taxation is at ATH and Bitcoin blockchain is open to everybody and your doge do tracking and surveillance, do the math, Coinbase already track your transactions and if you do something weird they ban you, you can't buy from them without KYC, it won't end nice. Thanks for all the fish Satoshi but the future of cryptocurrency requires something better, it requires Monero

[ArticMine]

community activity low, volume very low, price not so low but also not so high. reversal is not far away, all it needs is a potent buyer to step in.
is everybody busy watching btc? are the big fish all doing holidays?

They will come when its too late: http://www.coindesk.com/be-vigilant-on-compliance-coinbase-warns-bitcoin-startups/

Bitcoin in the US is gone! Why? Push for regulation and taxation is at ATH and Bitcoin blockchain is open to everybody and your doge do tracking and surveillance, do the math, Coinbase already track your transactions and if you do something weird they ban you, you can't buy from them without KYC, it won't end nice. Thanks for all the fish Satoshi but the future of cryptocurrency requires something better, it requires Monero

The future of crypto-currency requires Monero on GNU/Linux not just Monero. If one is using Windows 8.1 RT the only choice will be to use a service such as Coinbase regardless of whether one is using Bitcoin, Monero or some other crypto-currency. The reality is that Microsoft has been gradually moving Windows towards the fully locked down Orwellian Telescreen Windows RT model for at least the last 15 years, much like slowly rising a temperature on a pot of cold water with a frog in it. My expectation is that the frog will be dead certainly within the next decade and very likely within the next 5 years.

Edit: Those that are still in the Microsoft pot would be wise to jump out while they are still able.