[XMR] Monero Speculation

[rpietila]

Everytime you get a pump the bears will short it to death. This revolution may not be cheap.

Correct. For the bears. You are too new to remember 

[darlidada]

We can just move to Bittrex for the time being.  It will be fun when XMR will become the top traded coins there. Remember when the fudders were sayin poloniex was a fake exchange with fake volume ?

[nioc]

I was unaware of increased withdrawal fees as of the 20th. I guess I'm going to withdraw all my Moneroj as I won't be selling any time soon.

This should be standard operating procedure.  Two words:  Mt. Gox.

Did you notice my "personal text" under my activity?  

Not sure what that is... but my comment was not meant as a criticism in any way... just a reminder and encouragement to us all.  Leaving crypto on exchanges is risky.  When we know were are not trading...  we should always be pulling it off.

Does it seem familiar now?

It is a very valuable fog we wander around in here, now in the present.

I did not take your post as criticism but as good advice like always.  I first experienced you on a different forum where your posting was also excellent.



 

[nioc]

To those asking where is my GUI,

Nobody is more computer illiterate than I, but with motivation due to my belief in the project and help from the community, I set up Monero and have been using the command line wallet with no issues.  I have a node running on my anemic machine as I type this.

[nakaone]

Instead of dwelling in misery after the inevitability, how about thinking theoretically, how the private exchange can continue? What ways to arrange a functional marketplace are available?

- Decentralized exchange
- Decentralized and trustless blockchain exchange between cryptos
- Exchange in a freer jurisdiction
- Bulleting board with a thought-out trust/escrow system
- Market-making exchange (Silverbank)
- Decentralized network of individual market makers (Localbitcoins)
- Services that make markets on intermediary financial goods (gift cards, miles, credits in paypal)
- Using Crypto Kingdom social exchange platform to conduct trades (exchange moving inside a non-jurisdiction)

If I can think of 8 ways, surely you can add another 8 basic alternatives, and then the community needs to form a taskgroup to pursue the selected one(s) of them.

I liked the busoni/poloniex solution something similar can be found on doooglus and just-dice. basically a trusted yet personally unknow person running a business - the door is open to you

[oblox]

We can just move to Bittrex for the time being.  It will be fun when XMR will become the top traded coins there. Remember when the fudders were sayin poloniex was a fake exchange with fake volume ?

Given that Bittrex is also US-based, it will only be a matter of time before a similar situation arises. As with Cryptsy as well. A temp solution but not ideal in the sense of a truly decentralized exchange.

[Febo]

I was unaware of increased withdrawal fees as of the 20th. I guess I'm going to withdraw all my Moneroj as I won't be selling any time soon.

Febo: how much will withdrawal fees increase tomorrow?
SweetJohnDee: Febo, None, that I know of


Are you sure there will be increased withdrawal fees?

All i heard was that you will need some more verification to withdraw bigger amounts.

[rangedriver]

Time to wine and dine BTC-e.

Business trip to Sofia anyone? 

[nioc]

I was unaware of increased withdrawal fees as of the 20th. I guess I'm going to withdraw all my Moneroj as I won't be selling any time soon.

Febo: how much will withdrawal fees increase tomorrow?
SweetJohnDee: Febo, None, that I know of


Are you sure there will be increased withdrawal fees?

All i heard was that you will need some more verification to withdraw bigger amounts.

Just confused when I wrote that  
If one doesn't want to provide more info then your withdrawal limits are smaller which could result in multiple withdrawals and therefore more fees.

Obviously not a big deal @ 10 cents for up to $2000 but somehow 0.2 XMR still seems significant.


In other news I'm not getting the withdrawal emails so I haven't been able to complete my withdrawal.  I've never had a problem before. 

[rpietila]

Instead of dwelling in misery after the inevitability, how about thinking theoretically, how the private exchange can continue? What ways to arrange a functional marketplace are available?

- Decentralized exchange
- Decentralized and trustless blockchain exchange between cryptos
- Exchange in a freer jurisdiction
- Bulleting board with a thought-out trust/escrow system
- Market-making exchange (Silverbank)
- Decentralized network of individual market makers (Localbitcoins)
- Services that make markets on intermediary financial goods (gift cards, miles, credits in paypal)
- Using Crypto Kingdom social exchange platform to conduct trades (exchange moving inside a non-jurisdiction)

If I can think of 8 ways, surely you can add another 8 basic alternatives, and then the community needs to form a taskgroup to pursue the selected one(s) of them.

I liked the busoni/poloniex solution something similar can be found on doooglus and just-dice. basically a trusted yet personally unknow person running a business - the door is open to you

You - singular?

Yeah, market making on silver, gold, BTC, etc has been my main business since 2006, so at least no need to learn everything the hard way..

[Shrikez]

It's kind of sad to witness that flight... Poloniex has been good to us and all traders for that matter.

 

sorry for OT.

[medusa13]

One caution

Poloniex aims to reasonably identify each user by cross-checking user data against governmental watch lists such as OFAC, as well as 3rd party identity verification and authentication services. If a user or a user’s transaction is flagged as suspicious through our internal controls, Poloniex will require additional proof of identification from the user and has the right to not permit any trades, deposits, and/or withdrawals until additional and verifiable proof of identity is received and the Compliance Officer has approved the user for use of the Platform.

In other words, if you do business there you are at risk of having your coins held ransom for whatever "additional proof" they want, and also possibly the discretion of their Compliance Officer before giving them back.

What does that mean for services like xmr.to and shapeshift.io, do they have the balls to continue operate?

shapeshift is located in swizerland. they are a registered company with shares, but i do not think they are forced to implement KYC or AML programms soon, since nothing like an MSB rule for crypto companies exists yet. However, US law reaches everywhere sooner or later, take FACTA as an example. Also laws in swizerland regarding foreign money became a lot stricter the past years.
i do not know about xmr.to, but this kind of service could be hosted everywhere, its impossible to control

[smooth]

Ref: Polo KYC, I just looked at verification and for up to $2000 equivalent/ day, for 'level 1' - all they want is a name and a country.

No verification of name required, no ID requested - so you could even give a false one, it seems.

With your email addy known already - you are effectively traceable to that extent by TPTB anyway.

For most people it's not that scary. 

Don't get me wrong, I am concerned about my privacy, but it's not passport and proof of addy until pretty serious amounts - probably way more than you should have on an exchange anyway.

One caution

Poloniex aims to reasonably identify each user by cross-checking user data against governmental watch lists such as OFAC, as well as 3rd party identity verification and authentication services. If a user or a user’s transaction is flagged as suspicious through our internal controls, Poloniex will require additional proof of identification from the user and has the right to not permit any trades, deposits, and/or withdrawals until additional and verifiable proof of identity is received and the Compliance Officer has approved the user for use of the Platform.

In other words, if you do business there you are at risk of having your coins held ransom for whatever "additional proof" they want, and also possibly the discretion of their Compliance Officer before giving them back.

Yes, Smooth - maybe it is naive, but really... with a 'legit' exchange, it's probably also naive to assume they can go on without KYC forever...

I don't like it, but Polo can't fight it, realistically.

I agree. I was just pointing out that important condition so people are aware of the risk. Again, if you put your coins there, they can be held hostage for whatever "proof of identification" they deem necessary, at any time, with no notice, regardless of amount. The 2000 USD, etc. thresholds specify the minimum amount of documentation they require, not the maximum.

My take on this is that I have zero interest in giving my identity documents to any of the current crypto exchanges or other crypto businesses, and I have never done so, nor do I plan to. Not because I have anything to hide (all of my activities are entirely legal, and my identity isn't even that secret anyway), but because I simply don't trust them to safeguard it. Look at how many have been hacked, have had data breaches, rogue employees, etc. If I put coins there I'm aware I may have to forfeit them, so I act accordingly, mostly by exposure limits. Which is needed anyway given the risk of being hacked or "hacked".

[illodin]

One caution

Poloniex aims to reasonably identify each user by cross-checking user data against governmental watch lists such as OFAC, as well as 3rd party identity verification and authentication services. If a user or a user’s transaction is flagged as suspicious through our internal controls, Poloniex will require additional proof of identification from the user and has the right to not permit any trades, deposits, and/or withdrawals until additional and verifiable proof of identity is received and the Compliance Officer has approved the user for use of the Platform.

In other words, if you do business there you are at risk of having your coins held ransom for whatever "additional proof" they want, and also possibly the discretion of their Compliance Officer before giving them back.

What does that mean for services like xmr.to and shapeshift.io, do they have the balls to continue operate?

shapeshift is located in swizerland. they are a registered company with shares, but i do not think they are forced to implement KYC or AML programms soon, since nothing like an MSB rule for crypto companies exists yet. However, US law reaches everywhere sooner or later, take FACTA as an example. Also laws in swizerland regarding foreign money became a lot stricter the past years.
i do not know about xmr.to, but this kind of service could be hosted everywhere, its impossible to control

I meant that their business is to buy and sell XMR on poloniex. What will poloniex think of their business, will it rise suspicious transaction flags?

[celestio]

One caution

Poloniex aims to reasonably identify each user by cross-checking user data against governmental watch lists such as OFAC, as well as 3rd party identity verification and authentication services. If a user or a user’s transaction is flagged as suspicious through our internal controls, Poloniex will require additional proof of identification from the user and has the right to not permit any trades, deposits, and/or withdrawals until additional and verifiable proof of identity is received and the Compliance Officer has approved the user for use of the Platform.

In other words, if you do business there you are at risk of having your coins held ransom for whatever "additional proof" they want, and also possibly the discretion of their Compliance Officer before giving them back.

What does that mean for services like xmr.to and shapeshift.io, do they have the balls to continue operate?

shapeshift is located in swizerland. they are a registered company with shares, but i do not think they are forced to implement KYC or AML programms soon, since nothing like an MSB rule for crypto companies exists yet. However, US law reaches everywhere sooner or later, take FACTA as an example. Also laws in swizerland regarding foreign money became a lot stricter the past years.
i do not know about xmr.to, but this kind of service could be hosted everywhere, its impossible to control

I meant that their business is to buy and sell XMR on poloniex. What will poloniex think of their business, will it rise suspicious transaction flags?

The exchanges they use could be added in/taken out etc. But I don't see why poloniex would think ill of it or anything.

[GreekBitcoin]

Can someone talk a bit about lending XMR in Poloniex? What are the risks? Does it worth it? etc...

[GTO911]

Can someone talk a bit about lending XMR in Poloniex? What are the risks? Does it worth it? etc...

These are the interest rates people are lending their XMR for - 0.0165%

Collecting Dust 

[kurious]

I agree. I was just pointing out that important condition so people are aware of the risk. Again, if you put your coins there, they can be held hostage for whatever "proof of identification" they deem necessary, at any time, with no notice, regardless of amount. The 2000 USD, etc. thresholds specify the minimum amount of documentation they require, not the maximum.

My take on this is that I have zero interest in giving my identity documents to any of the current crypto exchanges or other crypto businesses, and I have never done so, nor do I plan to. Not because I have anything to hide (all of my activities are entirely legal, and my identity isn't even that secret anyway), but because I simply don't trust them to safeguard it. Look at how many have been hacked, have had data breaches, rogue employees, etc. If I put coins there I'm aware I may have to forfeit them, so I act accordingly, mostly by exposure limits. Which is needed anyway given the risk of being hacked or "hacked".

You're right to point it out, I guess I assumed most here would know that any exchange is a risk (of many kinds).

I just feel Polo is a good one, and (granted, perhaps emotionally swayed) wanted to step up for a little balance in case it got a total kicking.

EDIT: To reply to Smooth.

[GreekBitcoin]

Can someone talk a bit about lending XMR in Poloniex? What are the risks? Does it worth it? etc...

These are the interest rates people are lending their XMR for - 0.0165%

Collecting Dust 

Okay. Got my answer

[xa4]

Can someone talk a bit about lending XMR in Poloniex? What are the risks? Does it worth it? etc...

My first steps in margin trading and this is my experience so far :

1. I bought a short position. The lending is automatic, meaning I (presumably) got the cheapest rate and the rate varies automatically when cheaper (lower rate) loans are offered e.g. initial BTC XMR lending at 0.0374% and during my position it went automatically down to 0.0365%

2. I offered a BTC loan at 0.045% for 2 days. The fees are accumulating as long as the lender doesn't close his position. 0.045%/day  = ~17% annualized, which isn't bad I think.

What I don't understand is my loan is still active at 0.045% while there are cheaper loans right now ? I'd guess the lender would get those cheaper loans automatically like I  did ?