[XMR] Monero Speculation

[Dotto]

2.07$

If you think it, it´s ridicully cheap.

Go

[nioc]

2.07$

If you think it, it´s ridicully cheap.

Go

You buying or selling? 

Get rid of the zero just to the right of the decimal and I will sell 1 Monero.  The rest I will hodl.  Fair warning, I'm giving this only 4 more years.

[Dotto]

2.07$

If you think it, it´s ridicully cheap.

Go

You buying or selling? 

Get rid of the zero just to the right of the decimal and I will sell 1 Monero.  The rest I will hodl.  Fair warning, I'm giving this only 4 more years.

Im hodling, and 10% making non greedy, sure trades

[smoothie]

I do think that Monero is probably the best altcoin right now, since it actually does something major that Bitcoin doesn't, even if its scaling is terrible and it'll probably be replaced by a Bitcoin sidechain someday. Achieving Monero-style anonymity for everyone should be a long-term goal of Bitcoin.

Thought this was interesting to read.

[aminorex]

I do think that Monero is probably the best altcoin right now, since it actually does something major that Bitcoin doesn't, even if its scaling is terrible and it'll probably be replaced by a Bitcoin sidechain someday. Achieving Monero-style anonymity for everyone should be a long-term goal of Bitcoin.

Thought this was interesting to read.

Bitcoin is great when you need world+dog to see your financial details.  For everything else, there is monero.

I think someone knows something.  Bitfinex?  

Soon the EU will clampdown with KYC/AML, and bitcoin will be almost unusable for politically incorrect purposes as they choke off the fiat inflows.  If I were bfx, I would be making contingency plans.  Like hoarding some XMR before listing.

Sheer speculation, mind you, but it is rational, and we have seen this before: supply dries up, then it gets listed.

[aminorex]

where has risto been? i love reading his bold predictions! takes a guy with a real sack to see something from the seed, true genius!

I give risto credit for consistent and careful logic, but the true visionaries were the community members who took it from a byte coin clone with a logic bomb to within a hairs breadth of the ideal of community-based, open-process, fair-distribution crypto perfection.  A lot of sweat went into that.

[ArticMine]

I do think that Monero is probably the best altcoin right now, since it actually does something major that Bitcoin doesn't, even if its scaling is terrible and it'll probably be replaced by a Bitcoin sidechain someday. Achieving Monero-style anonymity for everyone should be a long-term goal of Bitcoin.

Thought this was interesting to read.

theymos' position on Bitcoin scaling is well known so I am not surprised at his comments on Monero scaling. I completely disagree with them though. He does to his credit see the value in Monero's fungibility, privacy and anonymity.

[smoothie]

I do think that Monero is probably the best altcoin right now, since it actually does something major that Bitcoin doesn't, even if its scaling is terrible and it'll probably be replaced by a Bitcoin sidechain someday. Achieving Monero-style anonymity for everyone should be a long-term goal of Bitcoin.

Thought this was interesting to read.

theymos' position on Bitcoin scaling is well known so I am not surprised at his comments on Monero scaling. I completely disagree with them though. He does to his credit see the value in Monero's fungibility, privacy and anonymity.

I merely posted it to show that Monero is in the subconscience of Bitcoin proponents.

[ArticMine]

...
How is Monero's scaling terrible compared to Bitcoin?  I don't get it.

If one believes that keeping the blocksize in Bitcoin at 1 MB is a good idea then Monero's scaling with its adaptive blocksize limit could be seen as terrible. Monero's scaling appeals to those who want to see an increase in the Bitcoin blocksize

[TechorMarketing]

Bitcoin loans are now very affordable and as ETH bubble seems to be bursting there are plenty of bitcoins available now for margin long positions.
If you believe the price will rise faster than you need to pay interest, you might want to take a small long position...?

For those new here by careful when listening to TrueCryptonaire. Usually when he wants to sell his Monero, he talks very bullish and when he wants to buy Monero he talks very bearish.

At one point he basically admitted this in his signature.  Many of us enjoy his commentary as it is sometimes funny. Just be cautious about following his trading advice.

[TechorMarketing]

...
How is Monero's scaling terrible compared to Bitcoin?  I don't get it.

If one believes that keeping the blocksize in Bitcoin at 1 MB is a good idea then Monero's scaling with its adaptive blocksize limit could be seen as terrible. Monero's scaling appeals to those who want to see an increase in the Bitcoin blocksize

I think iCEBREAKER is a well known exception to that generalization about blocksize preferences although I think he has some specific reasons for it.

[TrueCryptonaire]

Bitcoin loans are now very affordable and as ETH bubble seems to be bursting there are plenty of bitcoins available now for margin long positions.
If you believe the price will rise faster than you need to pay interest, you might want to take a small long position...?

For those new here by careful when listening to TrueCryptonaire. Usually when he wants to sell his Monero, he talks very bullish and when he wants to buy Monero he talks very bearish.

At one point he basically admitted this in his signature.  Many of us enjoy his commentary as it is sometimes funny. Just be cautious about following his trading advice.

Good point but I am not trading anymore. I am active in lending markets and face the hardships of getting decent interest rates from bitcoin side and the coins keep piling up.

I have not been trading for long time anymore. Just buying if it hits 0.001.  
-------------------------------------

I think the Etherium investors are about to jump into Monero and it is important to welcome them warmly and happily.

[TechorMarketing]

Bitcoin loans are now very affordable and as ETH bubble seems to be bursting there are plenty of bitcoins available now for margin long positions.
If you believe the price will rise faster than you need to pay interest, you might want to take a small long position...?

For those new here by careful when listening to TrueCryptonaire. Usually when he wants to sell his Monero, he talks very bullish and when he wants to buy Monero he talks very bearish.

At one point he basically admitted this in his signature.  Many of us enjoy his commentary as it is sometimes funny. Just be cautious about following his trading advice.

Good point but I am not trading anymore. I am active in lending markets and face the hardships of getting decent interest rates from bitcoin side and the coins keep piling up.

I have not been trading for long time anymore. Just buying if it hits 0.001.  

This is another reason why you are my favorite so called "troll". You sometimes make useful points.  Margin trading and lending on Poloniex has four major flaws:

1. Lack of margin/open interest data being published
2. Uneducated lenders giving loans at rates that are far too low
3. Poloniex has a fee share structure for P2P margin loans that is far too high
4. At least once they rolled back some trades (resulting from cascading margin calls resulting in a flash crash of a certain popular alt) which I view as an attack on the immutability of their trading ledger.

Regarding # 4 the Gemini Exchange did something similar (attacked trade immutability by rolling back trades when someone made a fat finger mistake and misplaced a decimal) which is a good reason to use decentralized exchanges like bitsquare instead

[iCEBREAKER]

...
How is Monero's scaling terrible compared to Bitcoin?  I don't get it.

If one believes that keeping the blocksize in Bitcoin at 1 MB is a good idea then Monero's scaling with its adaptive blocksize limit could be seen as terrible. Monero's scaling appeals to those who want to see an increase in the Bitcoin blocksize

I think iCEBREAKER is a well known exception to that generalization about blocksize preferences although I think he has some specific reasons for it.

It is scientifically valid to modify a control variable like max_blocksize in Monero, which is an iteration of the Bitcoin experiment.

It is not scientifically valid to modify a control variable like max_blocksize in Bitcoin prior to the resolution of that experiment.

(Unless you are a Hearnia-suffering Gavinista, in which case you believe the Bitcoin experiment has already been resolved.)

Thermos is making an unfair comparison between default Bitcoin tx size and default Monero tx size.

It's an apple vs orange situation.  One is public, the other private.  Of course the privacy isn't free.

That trade-off is a subtle point, but perhaps smooth & the gang can back me up with some numbers for illustration.

tx size[ZeroCash + zk-SNARK Area51 alien tech]  >> tx size[Bitcoin + ad hoc off-chain kludge privacy overhead]  >  tx size[Monero including de facto elegant on-chain privacy protocol]

Private tx size, from largest to smallest:

3. Zcash.  Takes gobs of RAM to run, and tx are correspondingly enormous.
2. Bitcoin <-> CoinJoin <-> CT sidechain.  BTC tx are small, but CJ/CT overhead is not.
1. Monero.  On-chain mixing, while challenging to prune, provides one stop shopping.  Unknown if/how RingCT overhead will interact with large block reward penalty.

Perhaps Lightning, a future BIP, or nifty CoinShuffle-type on-chain mixing hack will someday give BTC on-chain fungibility|privacy.

Until then, let's scale Bitcoin to 1mb while remembering that ossification is the engine of a bone's anti-fragility (it heals more strongly where broken).

Undue concern about Monero's tx size is exactly like undue concern about Bitcoin's 7 tps of economic bandwidth.

These critiques seem applicable so long as your model is Paypal But With Moar Blockchains.

When you reevaluate using the correct Gold 2.0 settlement paradigm, it's obvious Bitcoin and Monero tx are, however scarce, potentially among most precious things that have ever existed, due to their exorbitant utility in terms of ~frictionless value transfer and wealth creation/preservation.

[MrGood]

Out of control. The correction is brewing. Or not  

All the way up from here.

[TrueCryptonaire]

I cannot believe, literally almost nobody is willing to take margin long positions (Monero is just one player in the margin trading arena). The bitcoin interest rates are at the bottom of the bottom and there are 8200 btc available for long positions. Imagine if this money flows to Monero, what will happen to the price, perhaps ATH?

[smoothie]

...
How is Monero's scaling terrible compared to Bitcoin?  I don't get it.

If one believes that keeping the blocksize in Bitcoin at 1 MB is a good idea then Monero's scaling with its adaptive blocksize limit could be seen as terrible. Monero's scaling appeals to those who want to see an increase in the Bitcoin blocksize

I think iCEBREAKER is a well known exception to that generalization about blocksize preferences although I think he has some specific reasons for it.

It is scientifically valid to modify a control variable like max_blocksize in Monero, which is an iteration of the Bitcoin experiment.

It is not scientifically valid to modify a control variable like max_blocksize in Bitcoin prior to the resolution of that experiment.

(Unless you are a Hearnia-suffering Gavinista, in which case you believe the Bitcoin experiment has already been resolved.)

Thermos is making an unfair comparison between default Bitcoin tx size and default Monero tx size.

It's an apple vs orange situation.  One is public, the other private.  Of course the privacy isn't free.

That trade-off is a subtle point, but perhaps smooth & the gang can back me up with some numbers for illustration.

tx size[ZeroCash + zk-SNARK Area51 alien tech]  >> tx size[Bitcoin + ad hoc off-chain kludge privacy overhead]  >  tx size[Monero including de facto elegant on-chain privacy protocol]

Private tx size, from largest to smallest:

3. Zcash.  Takes gobs of RAM to run, and tx are correspondingly enormous.
2. Bitcoin <-> CoinJoin <-> CT sidechain.  BTC tx are small, but CJ/CT overhead is not.
1. Monero.  On-chain mixing, while challenging to prune, provides one stop shopping.  Unknown if/how RingCT overhead will interact with large block reward penalty.

Perhaps Lightning, a future BIP, or nifty CoinShuffle-type on-chain mixing hack will someday give BTC on-chain fungibility|privacy.

Until then, let's scale Bitcoin to 1mb while remembering that ossification is the engine of a bone's anti-fragility (it heals more strongly where broken).

Undue concern about Monero's tx size is exactly like undue concern about Bitcoin's 7 tps of economic bandwidth.

These critiques seem applicable so long as your model is Paypal But With Moar Blockchains.

When you reevaluate using the correct Gold 2.0 settlement paradigm, it's obvious Bitcoin and Monero tx are, however scarce, potentially among most precious things that have ever existed, due to their exorbitant utility in terms of ~frictionless value transfer and wealth creation/preservation.

I would like to see an example of each comparison in tx size.

Personally I haven't followed zcash too closely to know that information, but does anyone have an example?

Painting a clear picture of side by side comparisons of these 3 generalized sizes would be helpful.

[TheKoziTwo]

Very pleased to see the price break 0.003 tonight. The market looks very strong and bullish.

I just noticed something interesting on the price chart. The price started going up on January 1st 2016 and never returned to those levels.



What happened on January 1st you ask? Monero version 0.9.0 Hydrogen Helix was released.

It was a long awaited release, especially the switch from storing blockchain in memory to storing it in DB which meant running monero became viable for a lot more users.

Was this the cause of the following price rise? There's this theory that market will price in everything in advance. Perhaps in a completely rational market this is the case, but markets are ruled by emotions. What's important to realize is that there had been no significant release for a very long time (more than a year). The price had just been consolidating in the gutter for a month after fully deflating from the previous bubble. After 8 months of only down, down and further down, people were losing hope, even I felt this. For a moment I started doubting my investment. When even true believers are considering selling we often have a turning point.

I think Hydrogen Helix spurred real optimism in the market and is the major reason the price went up only to never return.

The development was always visible on Github, but it wasn't until the actual release the market moved.

On that note, keep an eye on this.

[TrueCryptonaire]

Very pleased to see the price break 0.003 tonight. The market looks very strong and bullish.

I just noticed something interesting on the price chart. The price started going up on January 1st 2016 and never returned to those levels.



What happened on January 1st you ask? Monero version 0.9.0 Hydrogen Helix was released.

It was a long awaited release, especially the switch from storing blockchain in memory to storing it in DB which meant running monero became viable for a lot more users.

Was this the cause of the following price rise? There's this theory that market will price in everything in advance. Perhaps in a completely rational market this is the case, but markets are ruled by emotions. What's important to realize is that there had been no significant release for a very long time (more than a year). The price had just been consolidating in the gutter for a month after fully deflating from the previous bubble. After 8 months of only down, down and further down, people were losing hope, even I felt this. For a moment I started doubting my investment. When even true believers are considering selling we often have a turning point.

I think Hydrogen Helix spurred real optimism in the market and is the major reason the price went up only to never return.

The development was always visible on Github, but it wasn't until the actual release the market moved.

On that note, keep an eye on this.

Hello,

Nice to see you back now as your selling targets are approaching. 

[TheKoziTwo]

Hello,

Nice to see you back now as your selling targets are approaching. 

I've not given any targets so you must assume I have targets in the same area as last rally. I don't.