We need more third-party manufacturers that can build not-crappy miners from mainline chips and sell them for not-crappy prices. And then actually ship them instead of screwing people over.
Problem is. Non crappy prices means zero profitability. Consumer prices rely on larger volumes and currently the market for miners to consumers is too small to make it a viable model. Why are companies going to B2B? Volume. Simply the economies of scale for single units for the home is just not there compared to mega farms. The trend will continue until there are no mid sized farms and only mega farms left. The only viable way this could change would be massive amounts of small devices integrated into home electronics. Or linking millions of small units together in a single pool to compete with mega farms. The money is not there at this time to go after the ever shrinking market home user unless you have some sort of miner that is more gadget than miner. You will likely start seeing these sorts of things popping up but it will require some really innovative design team to get them to be interesting to the consumer level buyers but also to break out of the niche in these forums it would have to have wide appeal well beyond the hardware forums. |
|
|
|
You are exactly right. The direction this thread is going is to create as much conspiracy theories/FUD as possible. He is not interested in looking at the facts and drawing a conclusion from them. He has already drawn his own conclusion and is attempting to create the evidence to support it.
Not sure the motives behind it but I have a feeling he may be paid by BFL to troll. First off, fuzznuts, I'm not being paid by anybody to do this, but if I were, I would declare such in a heartbeat. The next time you accuse me of such, do so in front of some live witnesses in front of my face, whereupon both of us will later be placed in some wards: You in the hospital, and me playing the part of somebody's bitch, not saying that'll be a bad thing.  You are more than welcome to dispute any facts I post in this thread. If your assessment is valid, then I will retract what was penned. Starting with... We do not know who is BlackArrow Matt, let alone what continent he's on. FACT! We do not know the name of who represented Black Arrow when Matt Carson met up with him in the UK during his so-called recent visit: FACT! Matt Carson never explained why after purchasing the first datacenter in Rolla, MO, along with retrofitting it on his investomer's satoshi, he opted to move the datacenter to a new location sans a vote by the co-op, incurring an expense, then moved it again, incurring another expense, then moved it again to some undisclosed location in Denver, incurring yet another expense. FACT! Yet, I'm the one you're calling out on, especially on the latter point, even though this very important issue has been expressed a few times prior by other bitcoiners. I was merely connecting the dots, sometimes skewly, but still to the benefit of those that have moneys tied due to the Group-Buy-Guru guy's vetting process. The only saving grace is that DZ was vetted by John K. who, by the way, is no longer around, before positioning himself as the largest group buy co-op/vetting service less than a month later. DZ even vetted some clown in Florida that's a alt coin guy, who's taking under-performing bitcoin miners off Matt's hands, thanks to a suggestion by a Newbie, at the time, and hosting them at his datacenter paid for by the Sunshiner's investomers. FACT! ~TMI BTCITW Where the hell are you getting that I moved so many times? Also the move, along with location #1 and location #2 are fully leased and paid for by Miner Hosting, not any COOP, so technically no permission of any sort was required. I needed to move for capacity reasons, as need far outstripped capacity available in MO. Where are you now Matt Carson? |
|
|
|
The 4 most valid alternative uses for outdated asic miners depend on the size of the device in question, and they are: Boat anchor, door stop, book end and paper weight.
Pretty much. Recycle them. Don't use them as space heaters. |
|
|
|
Would be really nice to have a third player on the market.
Be nice if there was an alternative to companies that have failed to adequately deliver as promised. Given there are plenty of used miners that are cheaper and more efficient than these makes little sense buying these. Further it makes little or no sense for small operations to keep mining in general. If you are not a mid-sized player looking to expand at this point you are going to lose money in the longer term. If you are just doing this as a hobby then the used market is the best option. |
|
|
|
Not my server room. Not my purchase. Likely Asicminer blades right?"Garden 8ghs units if i remember" - My partner in Norway. They are powered down... too power hungry. Just teasing you  Couldn't resist  10 foot pole. Never ever going to touch Moskvitch style boards and fabrication. Pure crap.  |
|
|
|
|
Plenty of USED SP20s as well as many other form factors out there now up for sale for anyone even toying with mining as well as S2s with potential upgrades as well as other units flooding the marketplace.
Nothing irrelevant in that.
|
|
|
|
|
Remember never buy anything from Black Arrow.
|
|
|
|
|
Make sure to update date this thread with what has been deleted.
Also keep the SCAM accusation threads going.
Jail time for these guys.
|
|
|
|
Am I being asked to LEAVE?  DO NOT BUY ANYTHING FROM BLACK ARROW EVER. If you want a good hardware wallet... Trezor Hardware wallet AVAILABLE NOW!!! - https://www.buytrezor.com |
|
|
|
Maybe an outdated question, but what the *** happened to Minersource (site offline)?
They closed shop I think bob bought a great big bong & went island hopping  Ask Oregon Miner to track em down. They know where he is. |
|
|
|
Don't forget to let everyone know the total all in cost and what sort of ROI potential you have underclocking.
Months? Years? Centuries? Ever?
yeah! they beat us with the quantity of miners, made with our own money.... i like that is full of aluminium and the temperature will never reach 120C even with a silent fan... so how many units can you place on 1 raspberry pi? I have 2 soon to be three. I am also getting the better new rasp pi to test. @ bick they can do 1793gh at 1020 watts with a small underclock that is about .57 watts at the k-watt meter they can do about 985gh at 445 watts this is at a strong under clock and that is .45 watts at the k-watt meter. I have a need for a space heater every winter to keep some pipe from freezing. The space heater would use 1000 watts and cost 80 bucks. I would run it 90 days a year. So that is free power for a 1000 watt miner 90 days every year as long as I stay in my home. These units are very close to perfect as space heater replacements. So limited use no ROI. Buy BTC everyone or better yet a small efficient heater. Mini Portable Personal Ceramic Space Heater Electric 220V Fan Forced Blue Red Freeshipping 12$ and less than 800W. |
|
|
|
 Hoping to be LEGEN... wait for it... DARY soon. Legendary, is that a euphemism for blow hard, windy, verbose or gas bag  |
|
|
|
If Bitmain bails on S2 Upgrade kits, I might look into it. I've already got some BM1384 on the way to play with, we're looking at making a set of boards that'd strap to an S1 chassis. Bitmain's Janet has been pretty helpful so far but I haven't been given any documentation on the actual data protocol for their chips so Bick, if your group have access to any of that info would you mind sharing?
I think our EE has some specs and hasn't he already contacted you? If not PM me and I will give you his email. |
|
|
|
This is about the same time Spondoolies tech launched last year. Please follow in their footsteps and be just as good!
That would be a hard act to follow, but lets hope they are. Free us from this Chinese oppression so that we may make some sort of profits  Oppression? Like BFL, Bitfury, Black Arrow (Non-chinese owned), Bitmine, KNC or Hashfast did so well to relieve our dependence on Chinese fabricators? Right now all you got is Chinese or Israeli. Or really all you got is used products as nothing off the shelf available currently that you could trust. It is a market place Avalon gouged, BFL gouged, ASICminer definitely gouged. Prices didn't drop until there was competition. I don't think that a slight up tick in price 20% as huge gouge compared to the past levels which orders of 1000% higher than fabrication costs. Sfards is months out so it is USED equipment which is readily available as many many people are dumping their units to recoup / make tidy profits since they are probably almost break even on a lot of this hardware. Bitmain and Spondoolies Hardware at this stage. Mining is not the right move bottom line given the price of BTC at this time. Too risky given when price could bump up the mega farms will roll out more hash power and bury the little guys again. |
|
|
|
Not my server room. Not my purchase. Likely Asicminer blades right?"Garden 8ghs units if i remember" - My partner in Norway.  They are powered down... too power hungry. |
|
|
|
Our S2's have been working virtually non stop since replacing the PSU's over year now. And an S1 tucked up on the top shelf working as well. I can't believe how stable these Bitmain miners are. Mining FRC of course with a single reboot a year hope it pays off in a few years should prices spike again. We will run these until they die. Upgrade kits... that be cool but To all customers that ordered AntMiner S2s: We analysed the business case for S2 upgrade kits for end users and determined that it would not be worthwhile for either party. Are they close to doing it though? Given the Bitmain post? we are listening and taking info but R&D team is working to make it happen as much as they reasonably can...
S2 upgrade kit uses more chips than S5, but it is the same chip BM1834.
PSU wise, original 1000W PSU should be more than sufficient. (That is the plan) Even the slightly under-performing S2 PSU that could hash 9 PCB but not 10, would work as well.
lets wait for the R&D to say, let it open the flood gate for the sale
These are the S2 upgrade kit hashing PCB displayed in Burin, Germany and Amsterdam, Netherlands last week. Maybe Sidehack could build something to fit S2's? Bitmain certainly will work with you on chips for something like that. Our group has some Bitmain chips but not a lot.  |
|
|
|
Don't forget to let everyone know the total all in cost and what sort of ROI potential you have underclocking. Months? Ever? |
|
|
|
We sold out all of our 2nd gen miners.  Grats on that achievement. |
|
|
|
I dont understand this why dont you just mine yourself since you already paid for the hardware ?
Risk. Unprofitable... Sell / Rent it and make a profit as you probably just broke even on the 150 SP20s you purchase in bulk. |
|
|
|
There is certainly a 'fiduciary' responsibility for anyone posting hardware reviews and guides etc to warn consumers of bad deals but this guide in particular is not concerned with that aspect and never has. It is primarily concerned with telling you what hardware is "good" although it lags significantly behind the consumers in what really is value for money given how long it takes to see ratings adjusted to the reality of the marketplace.
Currently there are no such ROI hardware deals available to the average small user and there will never be a time when that is possible ever again.
If you want to use that methodology, why does your guide have a thumbs up section at all? Surely all those companies (according to you) sell at a loss to the consumer and so should all be thumbs down? And while you and I have had our fights on line many companies do sell at high prices. Many items do not have hope to make a profit. As for bick saying no current deal will profit for a small investor. I actually think that at 469 shipped to the usa a s-5 will earn that back by nov, dec 2015 in a 10 cent a kwatt home with a psu on hand. That is if BTC price holds and difficulty doesn't blow up. Too many ifs. As you said DO NOT BUY MINERS... BUY BTC and hold. Best option. And it is clear Dogie doesn't read my guide or he would know there are plenty of WARNINGS NOT TO BUY all the way through for months. However if you are still insisting on going ahead then I recommend what are the best companies given what consumers say about their experiences. Unlike this thread that has little or no input from consumers. If he had done that I bet tens of thousands of dollars would not have been lost to some pretty horrible companies that were touted as excellent in this thread for many months when there was ample evidence to contrary. I stand by my statements I don't have to back peddle and remake rating system to some how fit my own personal agenda. Basically I copy and paste what people post and there reports makes it clear what is a reputable business and what isn't. |
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
