Heat sinks and the volume they take up is the issue here not weight. That is valuable real estate in a DC and even in a small node at home. Why did AM build themselves a modern high density cooling solution?
They already built the future. This offering is not it.
This is what the industry wants, maybe this is not what the home user wants it, but this is how the game is going to be played: Not sure I completely agree with that. Immersion cooling is definitely the future but it is quite a ways off before it becomes economically viable for most DCs let alone most homes. I predict that a very efficiently deployed immersion setup would cost ~$150/kw. For those with cheap electricity, it would still make sense to go with air cooling. For example if you had an an efficient setup ($150/kw) and $0.05/kwh electricity you would be saving ~1/3rd on electricity so ~$0.016/kwh or about 1 year to break even. You simply have to admit that for the average home miner and air cooled DCs with cheap electricity, this is quite an attractive machine. Side note: I am 99% sure that AM has already made a high density immersion solution and I'm sure they will give it to anyone who asks (not positive about that last part) The average miner shouldn't be investing in mining given the numbers currently. Plenty of people have posted the numbers already I don't see how small scale is going to cut the mustard. These things are architecturally interesting but in terms of what is in the market already for air cooled it is on the wrong end of the curve price and design wise given the modularity data center air cooled versions already out. Density, density and density. If you have to stack 10 of these to get comparable hash rate from something a lot smaller I can't see the benefits no matter how pretty it looks. What I am talking about here is an alternative to this configuration. The cube is great style wise but again it is going to take up a lot of space where a flat plane configuration would be more ergonomic. Again it is a numbers game. If you can get the chips for pennies and the PCB's done up en masse sure ok... but that better be ready this month or next before the difficulty and other fabricators drop their offerings. If it were profitable for Asicminer to build them they would. |
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Either these guys who were/are in good standing with BFL either got shafted royally since being at the end of the queue, or are happily hashing away for a while now on their Monarchs. Either case is not a pleasant scenario.
There were all of those early wafers that supposedly wasn't "working", maybe someone took them out of the trash bin! You forgot to air quote "trash bin!" Pfft. The lies they have told will be found out soon enough. Court will reveal all and I suspect the probation officer is none too happy about the latest refusal to refund customers and the houses that were bought since the last probation hearing. |
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That might be true Edgar.
I paid.
I got my units.
They were a bit banged up.
They work very well.
That is all I can go on.
Yes there are better service orientated fabs out there but what is in stock and at the right price is the end point for most. Any purchase of a miner from any company is going to be risky.
The point of the thread was these units looked to be "used". My point is no one really seems to care if they buy them and get them in hand in a few days. The alternatives are sadly the norm where waiting and waiting is the reality coupled with all the bad service.
----
On to the reality of mining.
The days of hooking up your ASICs at home one at a time are over.
You can't compete with millions of dollars in investiture from the bigger players. The only way to do that is stop buying ASICs from anyone other than a group you form yourself, a co-op. If you are really keen on breaking or holding off the monopoly that is going to be mining then you have coordinate 100s to 1000s of individual home miners into collectives to compete in pretty much any coin.
The only way to really have democratic coin one that doesn't allow a few with extreme wealthy to control mining is to make a coin that is design resistant and uses existing tech like mobile phones.
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Would they use these chips if they can get something more powerful same price or lower?
Of course not if it is cheaper and equally or more efficient. But if it is the same price they would probably still go with AM simply due to the fact that FC delivers. Just asking? Would they want to make something that required all that aluminum? Even Marto isn't selling boards now with all his new designs... guess chips cost too much to make a profit compared to Bitmain offerings. Guess that small fabricator is going out of business as well.
Where exactly do you see "all that aluminum"? I just downloaded the cad files and it looks like it uses only 0.64 lbs of aluminum (excluding heatsinks). Also it uses a single 120mm fan for cooling. I don't know if it gets better than that. Maybe a single 180mm fan would be better although there is a much better selection on 120-140mm fans. Heat sinks and the volume they take up is the issue here not weight. That is valuable real estate in a DC and even in a small node at home. Why did AM build themselves a modern high density cooling solution? They already built the future. This offering is not it. This is what the industry wants, maybe this is not what the home user wants it, but this is how the game is going to be played:  |
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New or Used.
Would you still buy an S2 or something else?
I am guessing most would buy an S2 either way. Just saying.
The 2 I bought were not "used" to the best of my knowledge. I don't really care. I cared more that they don't pack the units properly and the boards pop out and bounce around and some people, not my case, have lost boards and whole miners to that unnecessary damage.
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Someone jumped the gun and ordered up some PCB's and forced GB members to take on his blunder and bail him out. Still i don't understand why we are forced to take the boards and chips when there are other options.
As Avalon has stated gen2 has the same footprint & pinout as the gen1 chips.
As soon as those release people will want boards.
Why not just refund the chips and hold the boards for gen2? People that want gen2
chips can hold their order until the new chips are delivered. And people that don't
want to the hold the board for themselves could wait for a new gen2 customer to
buy a board @ technobit after which refunds can be made.
This option wouldn't hurt you in funds and could actually be of benefit since you now
have boards in stock for quick assembly of gen2. Sure, there is no garantuee all boards
would be bought by new customers. But at least a good portion of this GB could get
refunded eventually.
Everybody can get their chips refunded this way. I'd rather wait several months for a
refund on the boards then having no chip refund at all. It beats having to wait three
weeks for the boards to arrive lowering the ROI even further.
Quite a few people were rightly pissed off at his do his way with their money tactics. GB1,pajak666, 36 , 3.06 , 1P4J4Kcib7WEQGxtdcjEwXsDnDJ5BYkpPy, R
HCy/7QykWCBHThA2mAsTt9cBhxjJiHhsrwlhtuJINsAD/+RyemCqIydLcWuJUJjNgjYeDdFMqPFikyzh93sbWiQ= Marto that is so lame, you are delaying refund in every possible way. I belive all other Group Buyers did allow their participants to take refund and they done it really quick and smooth. you are delaying the refund for the whole time. Monday, monday came now we have to vote lol. Riddic signed messages voting just to get some more hours, just to receive that tracking info from Avalon. Really I didn't expected that from you. This is the sort of game he played right from day one. Then tries to get a double fee for the GB? Marto74 is asking for twice the compensation he asked for in the opening post. From the opening post: 9. Pricing
A: I am asking for a 9% surplus for my nerves (risk compensation). the 10k chips totaled to 782.1BTC, which results to a resale price of 0.085BTC / chip. 782.1BTC divided by ten Thousand chips equals 0.07821BTC / chip with the 9% fee it results in a chip of price of 0.085BTC / chip as advertised in the terms. (0,00679 BTC fee) With the new designers fee of 0,09*0,085=0,00765BTC. The total fees we pay to marto 74 equals a whopping 18,3% fee over the original chip price (excluding escrow fee) This is unacceptable and i demand that you remove the additional fee before sending the refund list to John K. This "Cash-in first, ask questions later" tactic is unacceptable. It should be the other around. to the other GB1 participants: If we don't have a satisfactory from marto by the end of the day, i urge everybody to contact John K to get the refund on hold before he runs with double the fee. Story will continue tomorrow but I don't have to tell people where this ends because some people are still fighting to get Marto to pay back what is owed from this group buy. |
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There is 3 names in a row you would never invite to a party.  |
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I am plenty original.
I never bought what BFL was selling. Products or Bullshit. You need to be more like me not less buddy. Just to let you know the war's over BFL lost.
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 No problem. SECOND BATCH - 6 TH/S OF PURE MINING POWER! WOOT!  wouldn't have been allowed to change that in the UK; bloody nanny state we live in! BFL would have a hard time doing biz in the UK. I can see the purpose for it at times. |
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No problem. SECOND BATCH - 6 TH/S OF PURE MINING POWER! WOOT!
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Thanks for Luke's support and excellent job,what he did is very important to promote R-BOX and bfgminer. Welcome guys to use R-BOX in bfgminer system. Donate: 134dV6U7gQ6wCFbfHUz2CMh6Dth72oGpgH <---- Don't forget he takes Donations Rockxie. |
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[quote author=Archibald Chikungunya link=topic=521520.msg7249604#msg7249604 date=1402488789]
[quote author=cbcm.co link=topic=521520.msg7246979#msg7246979 date=1402476210]
[quote author=Archibald Chikungunya link=topic=521520.msg7246353#msg7246353 date=1402473074]
What exactly is legit? this hair brain scheme, this attempt? certainly you
don't mean two penniless east europeans who cannot even scrape together
100,000 dollars between them to buy 35 SP's. They need to start this all off
by raising a meager 100,000 dollars? 90% of the drivel in their little "prospectus"
consists of trading off the name of Spondoolies-Tech. That's all they talk about.
As though your promise to supply them equipment if they are successful to raise
money and their promise to buy your equipmentif they are sucessful to raise money,
somehow makes this scheme legit? How about I actual buy your product then of
parcel it out as shares, without even having to mention who I bought it from.
And from there I buy more. This scheme will never success in the sphere of the
bitcoin miners and buyer, this community is far to clever for that. It is geared
towards more the sleezy cloudhasing rubbish aimed at the clueless out there,
but this time round with a sophisticated twist to appeal to the clued in miners
and traders of bitcoins.
I truly hope that is what you mean and are not in fact endorsing the attempted
operation, thepeople, the company itself.
[/quote]
Welcome to our main IPO thread: [url=https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=647360]https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=647360[/url]
And please use Your main account to discuss, but not newbie one.
[/quote]
I most certainly will but before we do that explain to me this cunningly used
word "partnership" all over the prospectus?
[quote]The Partnership
CBCM has a partnership with Spondoolies-Tech to deliver their SP 10 devices in June.
Agreements
CBCM has reached a partnership agreements with Spondoolies-Tech to provide mining equipment[/quote]
According to the owner of Spondoolies; it is quite simple if you raise the funds you can
buy the goods. Anyone can buy the goods if they have the money, yet you've carefully
submitted the words "agreements" and "partnerships" in the prospectus to make it appear
as Spondoolie-Tech is some how involved further than simply exchanging their hardware for monies.
[quote author=Spondoolies-Tech ]Assuming their first round will be a success, we'll cover
it with 35 SP10s we removed from our stock.[/quote]
Yet you persist to use the following throughout the prospectus:
[i]The Partnership Agreements[/i]
which are:
[quote]Articles of partnership is a voluntary contract between two or among more than
two persons to place their capital, labor, and skills, and corporation in business with the
understanding that there will be a sharing of the profits and losses between/among
partners. Outside of North America, it is normally referred to simply as a partnership
agreement.[/quote]
[/quote] Can you take all this over to the other thread? Seriously not really why people come here to read pages and pages interrogatives. |
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On topic.
WPC has invited both these fools to the meetings months ago they didn't bother to respond to the invite. Just like Josh Zerlan didn't. BCP didn't.
You want answers come to the meeting. Just set it up with Beastlymac he will get you squared away. Again like I said I doubt Marto74 is going to accept and I most definitely sure Loshia won't accept.
Back to ignoring both of them.
Note: I will be emailing the WPC members this if they haven't seen it.
We tried to have them voice all their concerns to the WPC they don't seem to want to talk. This all started with Loshia being a rude dirtbag anyhow not bothered and pretty much expected that he doesn't have the intestinal fortitude to stand up and be a man and make cogent argument at a WPC meeting. Much easier to cower in threads than make accusations about a person face to face in real time. Pretty cowardly but not suprising at all. Trying to figure out where the Hardware aspect of this thread is, any mods care to explain that? |
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Very nice and exciting for the future to come! I'd love to work with a manufacturer and bring these to the US masses.
I'd love it if you'd do that ASAP.. First company to sell these for a decent price (~$1/gh) gets my money. As would I! I will definitely be exercising all options that I have to make this happen. It's a bit harder seeing as most, if not all, manufacturers are outside of the states. We all have seen what happens when a US company tries to work with an overseas company and has a bad business and communication relationship (Don't need to point fingers). With that said, I would go at this a lot differently then the big companies only going after $. A smaller scale and most important realistic prices, service and expectations. I wouldn't offer what I cannot deliver (ha! How many times have people said that before?) but my track record speaks for itself now.  Taking on more work that I can handle is something I will not do nor begin to do like a lot of these short-term money hungry companies have been. Enough about me. If anyone knows contributors who would like to speak, feel free to shoot them my way. We need a manufacturer who has enough money to afford a large enough order directly with AM. We could always default to the good ol' chips group buy done by a reputable member who'll then forward the chips to a (again, reputable) manufacturer. That's going to cut the price and lower all margins. Would they use these chips if they can get something more powerful same price or lower? Just asking? Would they want to make something that required all that aluminum? Even Marto isn't selling boards now with all his new designs... guess chips cost too much to make a profit compared to Bitmain offerings. Guess that small fabricator is going out of business as well. |
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Let us start where most of this all began the Group Buy Thread. To set the tone for the selfish behavior that then led to him still owing people from that group buy. We will do this a day at a time so that we have some good insight into how Marto74 operates with others money and fails to listen to reason. This ultimately ends with a fair number of people still expecting payment from this group buy based his Marto74's promise to do so. Other groups start process for full refund. There are groups with more then 60 days delay. With current difficulty trend any delay just killing the ROI. My suggestion is to go for refund after 2 weeks of delay there is no reason to wait more!
If on 16-th of September 06:00 EET (GMT+2) there is not @ least shipping info I'll ask everybody in the group to vote with signed message to go for refund or not. But @the present state about 6500 chip orders , become miner boards orders so for now most of the group voted with their wallets to go for the chips. I think that most probably the refund if any will be done with the second batch and 1-st batch will be delivered, combining users with different wishes between both batches . But It is 2 weeks early for that I for my 32 chips i ordred ... vote for refund ... as soon as possible ... I don't understand anyone who still want to have chips which will do no ROI ... at all ... but it's not my thing to understand everybody ... Miner builders have a different point of view, as they probably have bought some material for the assembly ... but at this point we only ordred chips so far ... and better then getting them at the end of the year ... is a refund now as long Yifu is doing it marto74 I hope you are in contact with zefir and sebastianJu and all the other GB organizers ... to evaluate best solutions ... ... if some one wanna buy my chips .... order#32 chips 32 for 2.72 BTC ! I held 782.1 BTC for our group buy and everyone got refunded immediately same chips later buy date. So I know the score very well on these chips. Great day indeed to get the refund and then distribute that coin as fast as possible back to everyone WITHOUT delay just like Zefir and other group buy leaders did no bs. Status: 48955 confirmations
Date: 06/09/2013 01:17
Credit: 782.10 BTC
Net amount: +782.10 BTC
Transaction ID: 93d1ee65b2d9454c2c948d3fb4516a1a7bf59cc6f576a6e151d21c29a74be77d-000 Sebastian received refund from Avalon and already sent it to customers, fast and clean! Lets think again is the waiting is right strategy at moment...
That is the problem. He thinks about what is best for himself not his customers. |
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You should rise above all this Bick, really, it doesn't do you or your project credit.
Not anymore getting spammed in PM's and in posts ended that. Pretty much done with the keep it civil and rise above it. Let us see how Marto74 enjoys a good PR campaign. It is time for people who have been pushed around by Marto74 and Loshia to stand up be counted. There are enough complaints here to make this thread viable. We'll stand up against Loshia, any day. One day we're going to just eat him. MMmm... Cook him up right next to the beach at St. Vlas. A nice plate of Loshia with some shopska salad and a bit of rakia, with just one icecube.. can't wait. But we'll have to side with Marto. Bick, i don't know how far you're going to get with this one. There are plenty of people that were burned. Evidence strewn all over the place. Be $1 be it $10,000. Doesn't matter much to me they want to keep PM'ing me and poking at the WPC and not accepting an invite to come explain their problem with us. Fine we can settle it here. I got no problem moderating threads and finding enough information to keep posting for months here. Got a long summer holiday all the time in the world for this hobby. Again they can try all the like to dig up dirt on me I wish them well. They kept pushing this is what you get. Also this way I don't have to keep PMing the mods and reporting the spam from Loshia... this way I can just keep things on track here. 1 thread to bind them all. |
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