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781  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s on: November 08, 2014, 07:16:48 AM
The stench emanating from ecointalk is amazing. Sycophancy, desperation, and Stockholm syndrome. Jumbley is the prime source.

I don't get how people can still support this company's actions voluntarily.

As with many a scam.

These people are either paid plants or employees.

That has to be it because a real consumer is never going to be riding this all the way to the black smoking hole that had been created now. At some point you bail out and try to recoup your losses.

Classic move by these companies it is repeated over and over again.


____


Who are these people?
Are they BA partners?
Are they BA employees?
Are they paid to astroturf for a fee?
782  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: [ANN] Spondoolies-Tech - carrier grade, data center ready mining rigs on: November 08, 2014, 06:55:36 AM
The Real News:

Quote
"Our goal is to get to 0.05 W/GHs, 0.03 $/GHs miners by mid 2015 and power more than 30% of the bitcoin network," Corem explained, adding that he believes these figures will help the company match its rival firms in the US and China.

Spondoolies-Tech is looking to release a 28nm ASIC, as well as two custom 16nm ASICs, by the second half of 2015, the total costs of which will be north of $7m, he estimated.

What does the competition have?

Given that projection I don't see anyone in direct competition with SPTech come mid 2015.


Well, we all know how good Spondoolies' projections turn out to be. With AM, Bitfury and Spondoolies all talking 0.2 J/Gh for the next generation of ASICs early next year, 0.05 J/Gh mid 2015 for the generation after that is clearly marketing bullshit.

I don't think they have been out that much on their projections. I will gladly be embarrassed and you can rub it my face if they don't hit those numbers by that date. In terms of their team they are clearly ahead of the rest.

I respectfully disagree this is clearly a challenge that if not accepted leaves only SPTech at the top. I don't see how it is profitable even at those prices for SPTech given the weak BTC unless they have a crystal ball and that to me is where issues could be worrisome for any investors. Then again if others fail to keep up 30% of the network will be a low estimate.

Isn't AM having issues with shipping late 1 month now on their current units? I would be more worried about AM given that hiccup. Seems like AM are slipping here not SPTech.

I think if AM is not careful they might just become an SPTech customer to keep things like their creative but questionable investment AM/HASH cloud you are advertising competitive. I can see why you might be bias against the SPTech guys given your lean.


Quote
These partnerships, Corem suggested, may prove essential given that Spondoolies-Tech's customer base increasingly consists of enterprise-level clients.

Corem estimates that less than 20% of his company's sales are direct to consumers, a figure that suggests the recent rise of industrial-scale mining is having an impact on this market.
783  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: [GUIDE] B's Moderated Biased & Opinionated Miner Sellers Trustworthiness Guide on: November 08, 2014, 06:44:20 AM
 iAsicminer or Asicminer... where does the problem sit right now?

What are customers thinking about iAsicminer and Asicminer and the Block Erupter Prisma at this time?

Seems to be a lot of problems but should we change the rating to THUMBS down for iAsicminer and Asicminer based on these problems or are they working to resolve all these issues customers are having?

I am seeing a lot of mixed messages in the threads. Canary in the Mine group buy for the Block Erupter Prisma seems to working well and there are few issues. As always Canary is on top of his game and gets things out as soon as possible.

Hey Canary -

Thanks for the group buy!

Any thoughts on the current leadtime?  I mean if I were to order today will it be a week out or more still?

TIA!
That's a question for ASICMiner.  They have posted some info regarding shipping delays etc... on their threads. I can tell you that once inventory arrives it's shipped out in the order of payments.
thanks

However there is a lot of chatter and issues with iAsicminer and Phasebird as well as some criticism against Asicminer and FriedCat.

Has anyone heard from FC or Phasebird? I have 4 dead boards and getting NO response from AM, did they finally collapse under the weight of their GIANT heads? 30PH/a month my A$$, ton of garbage boards shipped.

Question is this a Phasebird issue or a direct Asicminer FriedCat issue?

Are they not a different company and Phasebird and iAsicminer are distributors of Asicminer products?

----

How deep does the problem go?

I see that Canary in the Mine has few issue shipping units or am I mistaken?

Is shipping 1 month late?
Are customers going to be compensated?
784  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Block Erupter Prisma (>=1.4 T/device, 0.75-0.78 W/G, <1 BTC/T, October Shipping) on: November 08, 2014, 06:38:14 AM
Has anyone heard from FC or Phasebird? I have 4 dead boards and getting NO response from AM, did they finally collapse under the weight of their GIANT heads? 30PH/a month my A$$, ton of garbage boards shipped.

Question is this a Phasebird issue or a direct Asicminer FriedCat issue?

Are they not a different company and Phasebird and iAsicminer are distributors of Asicminer products?

----

How deep does the problem go?

I see that Canary in the Mine has few issue shipping units or am I mistaken?
785  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: [ANN] Spondoolies-Tech - carrier grade, data center ready mining rigs on: November 08, 2014, 06:29:26 AM
The Real News:

Quote
"Our goal is to get to 0.05 W/GHs, 0.03 $/GHs miners by mid 2015 and power more than 30% of the bitcoin network," Corem explained, adding that he believes these figures will help the company match its rival firms in the US and China.

Spondoolies-Tech is looking to release a 28nm ASIC, as well as two custom 16nm ASICs, by the second half of 2015, the total costs of which will be north of $7m, he estimated.

What does the competition have?

Given that projection I don't see anyone in direct competition with SPTech come mid 2015.
786  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: BFL ASIC is bogus on: November 08, 2014, 06:24:58 AM

That is funny. However besides that appointed receiver assuming command BFL appears to be unaffected. A judge has already said he believes there was foul play but due to lack of evidence and a star "silver tounged" witness for the defense was unable to give them the 24 months in jail they were facing. Who knew stealing multi millions of dollars would get you less jail time than stealing  $1000 from a store or bank :/ so BFL may face a fine for the misuse of company funds charge but they won't get any jail time and the consumers they hustled will be lucky if they get the outdated cards they paid for but any financial settlement to customers is extremely unlikely.

Jail time for Sonny V.

FTC will refund people as much as they can given BFL made millions go poof in a cloud of smoke.

Cards? Really I think people that requested a refund months ago are glad this is over don't you?

There will be no more units shipped. Monarchs are dead for ROI. Refunds are the only way to recoup anything.

787  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s on: November 07, 2014, 08:30:22 PM


Got an update in regard to my fraud case i opened with the police, It's been passed now to thames valley police and things look like they are picking up.

04 November 2014

Dear Mr Kennerley

NFRC141000810656

I’m writing to inform you about the current position of your report.

Experts at the National Fraud Intelligence Bureau (NFIB) have reviewed the information and have found enough evidence for a possible police investigation. I am pleased to inform you your report has been sent to Thames Valley Police, who have recorded it under: • reference : awaiting local reference number allocation - in process

Thames Valley Police is responsible for any resulting investigation and for providing you with further updates to your report. Their contact details are details:

• Thames Valley Police by email at affect@thamesvalley.pnn.police.uk or

• by phone 01865 841148

When you contact Thames Valley Police, please give them your reference number (above).

If you would like more information on how to protect yourself from fraud, there is information

on the Action Fraud website at or you can call them on 0300 123 2040.

Thank you again for taking the time to report and helping us to make the UK a safer place for you and others.
788  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: [GUIDE] B's Moderated Biased & Opinionated Miner Sellers Trustworthiness Guide on: November 06, 2014, 02:02:48 PM
  Minersource highly questionable tactics.

There have been many complaints and they still continue to put out dogshit after steaming pile of dogshit excuses for failures.

Pieces of shit and utter liars...

How did your refusal of your miners go? Did it get a rise out of the dickheads at MS?

After refusing the package, which should never have been sent to me, and contacting them several times I received the following template mail. Notice how they didn't even bother to remove the first line and fill in the _<..>_ blanks..  Undecided :


Quote
<ONLY INCLUDE IF THEY CONTACTED YOU; DELETE IF YOU SIMPLY REFUSED A DELIVERY REFUSAL NOTICE: Thank you for contacting us regarding our shipment of your pre-ordered mining equipment.> We understand that you have refused delivery and instructed the shipping company to return the equipment to us. We are sorry that you are unhappy with your order, but we are not able to refund the value of your order if you cancel it. We did our best in a challenging situation to deliver your _<units>__ as quickly as possible, and had even worked with our supplier to add an additional __<X>__ units to your order, free of charge. These additional units were included in the shipment we sent to you. While we appreciate and acknowledge that the wait has been longer than you had hoped, this was a “pre-order” of mining equipment which, according to the terms of purchase posted on our site when you placed your order, is non-refundable if cancelled. Those terms (www.minersource.net/____) explicitly notified buyers that delivery dates were not guaranteed, and that buyers should not rely on them as a factor in making the decision to place an order with us. We will initiate delivery of the shipment to you again at no additional shipping charge within 5 days of the date of this communication unless you provide notice to us in writing that you are not interested in receiving the equipment, in which case we will provide you with in-store credit in the amount of your original purchase, less the shipping fees, instead. Again, we are sorry that this order took so long to fulfil, and encourage you to contact us with any additional questions.

Thomas Salvatore
Head of Logistics
support@minersource.net

I've been very patient the first 6 months after ordering but my patience has turned into anger. All they have to do is send me a refund and it's finished. In the meantime I contacted 3 different consumer organizations and will continue to do everything until I get my $ back.
789  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: [ANN] Spondoolies-Tech - carrier grade, data center ready mining rigs on: November 06, 2014, 01:56:16 AM
Too much Thai spice...


If you risk building in chicken coop style you run the risk of fires. Was likely going to happen that is why DC's have fire suppression and climate controls and pdu's that are rated properly with cabling that is redundant safety-wise. Why it couldn't have happened in the BFL burn in rooms instead of this site is definitely proof Karma is a fickle bitch. Cutting corners gets this result in some cases. Sad to see it happen but...
790  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: BitForce SC - full custom ASIC on: November 05, 2014, 05:48:27 PM

I do have one question... What is exactly the point you are trying to make?

Regards,
BF Labs Inc.

Thanks for asking.  I have a few simple points.

About BFL
1.  You are pre-announcing this product before delivering your previously pre-announced product
2.  This is your second claim of delivering a product with ASIC hashing.  Your first was debunked as an FPGA as soon as product shipped.
3.  You seem to be using customer funds for purchases of product for development and general expenses.  If I am wrong about that please post a notarized statement from your escrow agent and I will apologize.

About business in general
1.  Paying in advance for development is an investment.  It is generally compensated with intellectual property, equity or loan interest.
2. Honest, viable businesses become insolvent all the time for lack of cashflow.  It is the reason for the Chapter 11 bankruptcy procedures.
3. Payments in advance for products become unsecured debts in a bankruptcy proceeding.  Unsecured debtors are among the lowest priority for recovery in these procedures and generally get nothing.  Even if the material is sitting in the shipping bay with a label on it, it isn't yours under bankruptcy.
4.  For reason #3 above it is unethical, and a violation of consumer protection laws in many places to sell product in advance of availability.  For the same reason, Visa and Mastercard require shipment before a sale can be charged.
5. Companies at risk of insolvency often make very generous guarantee offers.  A guarantee has no revenue cost in the present, and has no value in bankruptcy either.

I can't see ever being a customer of yours given your business practices.  And your question has given me the opportunity to  nicely summarize why people should use caution.  So I will leave your thread to your fans and investors.

Another gold star.
791  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: BitForce SC - full custom ASIC on: November 05, 2014, 05:46:04 PM
I am a happy BFL customer.

2 questions:
1)  Where can I sign an NDA to get more information?
2)  Can I order yet?


For NDA you need to contact office@butterflylabs.com. For the order part, well if you already
own any singles or have any mini-rigs in order, you already have the credit for trade-in.
Please stand by for official announcement for ordering...


Regards,
BF Labs Inc.

I did contact office@butterflylabs.com and, having ordered a mini rig, thought I was well-qualified to be sent an NDA, which I then would have signed, in much the same way as I have already signed another NDA with another Bitcoin mining-related entity.

To my utter surprise, I just received this email (which, by the way, is not subject to an NDA, as it will become clear in just a second):

Hi Inspector 2211, <- I took the liberty to redact my real name

Thank you for your interest in our BitForce SC product. The NDA you've requested to sign is not a customer level document. It's place is for our manufacturing partners and Venture Capital participants. However, the useful period of time the NDA has covered is nearly complete as we're making our full product announcement in June. Performance specifications and shipment availability will be released at that time.

Best Regards,

Jody D.
Customer Service
BF Labs, Inc.



Where is that NDA?
792  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: BitForce SC - full custom ASIC on: November 05, 2014, 05:37:15 PM

I already pointed out that BFL and other ASIC manufacturers are a potential competitor to what I am doing now, please read my second to last post and you will see it, this is not some sort of half-assed attempt to down play the competition. I can also point out to you that I own the domain name bitcoinasic.com and have just as much the resources and connections as any other player on this forum to develop and sell an ASIC based product.

The truth is I am weary of BFL and others that have already begun to design and test ASIC based miners, these others I am not going to call by name but if you look around you can find them.

I am not going to make any accusations here, but I propose a question to the community.

BFL has announced an upcoming ASIC based miner they have also stated that we as miners should continue to buy BFL singles because they will take them as full value for trade ins for their future ASIC based devices.

My question is this:

how can BFL do this? How can their business model allow for them to pay back full price for their flagship product which has made 99% of that revenues income.

How is that possible? How is it Not complete bullshit?

Please I want to see who can answer this, and what they will say Wink


Cablepair, I sympathize with you.  The entire purpose of BFL's announcement is to damage their competitors.  FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) has been used by unscrupulous companies against competitors for decades in the tech industry.  See my post #91 for an explanation of their motivations.

Looking at it another way, imagine you have access to tech that is merely 5x more efficient than today's hardware.  Call it $0.14 / MH.  That would be $140k per TH which would capture around 450 blocks a month right now.  Earning $115k / month!  Or 1.2 months to breakeven!  Would you sell this tech to anyone?  Would you tell anyone?  Of course not.  You would put your own money in and yield 100% returns.  You would spread your systems over datacenters worldwide, and hash through a dozen different pools, and no one would realize that you are reaping 80% of the hash rate in a a year.  Then you might start selling.

I suspect BFL is paying rent, lights and salaries with mini-rig orders they still haven't shipped. BFL prove me wrong:  publish a report from a lawyer or CPA showing that they are holding payments for these systems for you in escrow.

Give this man a gold star.
793  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: BitForce SC - full custom ASIC on: November 05, 2014, 05:23:37 PM
Not sure why it would matter, as long as they got their box back.
Not sure either, I'm just going off this quote from BFL, which makes it sound like only singles purchased from BFL would be covered.
The trade-in program involves return of a single, a mini-rig or mini-rig cards purchased from Butterfly Labs.
The date of purchase does not really matter, the credit is given to the customer as soon as the unit
reachs our office.
Straight off the BFL SC FAQ on the website:

"Upon release of BitForce SC based Singles & Mini Rigs, all previous generation BitForce products will enjoy a full 100% trade in value when used towards the purchase of the newer generation replacements.  This means your current device is protected from depreciation through this evolution in technology.  This buy back offer is good for all previous generation BitForce units whether purchased directly from us or from a third party."

So to answer your question, yes, they will accept anything whether purchased from BFL directly or not.

Didn't someone send a broken BFL Single to the maker of Lancelot to hack?  ....  Undecided  ooops

If anyone receives a broken single, they would definitely send it back to us for replacement. I don't think 600$ of investment
is something people would easily overlook...



Regards,
BF Labs Inc.

That is nice... how did those RMA's go anyhow? Refunds and Replacements that is what BFL is known for now right Eh Nasser G. ?
794  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: BitForce SC - full custom ASIC on: November 05, 2014, 05:15:39 PM
A company cannot simply play Yo-Yo with its product pricing.

yoyo implies 2 directions. I agree, that wont happen. But if you are implying you will hold prices steady even as difficulty skyrockets, I think potential buyers would like to hear that said explicitly, because I dont believe it for a second.

Quote
y shows that we have not done such thing with our singles or Mini-Rigs. Even now that
we are announcing ASIC, we have the trade-in program to make sure our clients do not suffer investment loss to a newer
generation of mining platform.

Yes, but that offer will hardly cost you anything. Mind you, I think its a good idea, and Ill credit you for it,  but its nothing like the tradeoff you will have to make once difficulty begins skyrocketing.

Our general (and strict) policy is to make sure our clients recover their investment and make proper profit in a timely manner.
I cannot explicitly disclose more data prior to our announcement, but it would be sufficient to say that whatever path we choose
must and will be a 'win-win' path (even if it translates into loss of profit for us). Any other strategy will result in loss-of-client
which is certainly not what we're after.

Regards,
BF Labs Inc.

Tells us again about this win win path you were on.

Case details

Court:   mowd
Docket #:   4:14-cv-00815
Case Name:   Federal Trade Commission v. BF Labs, Inc. et al
PACER case #:   117531
Date filed:   2014-09-15
Date of last filing:   2014-11-04
Assigned to:   District Judge Brian C. Wimes
Case Cause:   15:0053 Federal Trade Commission Act
Nature of Suit:   890 Other Statutory Actions
Jury Demand:   None
Jurisdiction:   U.S. Government Plaintiff


http://ia802308.us.archive.org/32/items/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531.docket.html


#askftc


Well now, excellent find Bicknellski.

Not me who found it. Check the BFL Fucked us over thread.
795  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: BitForce SC - full custom ASIC on: November 05, 2014, 02:58:38 PM
A company cannot simply play Yo-Yo with its product pricing.

yoyo implies 2 directions. I agree, that wont happen. But if you are implying you will hold prices steady even as difficulty skyrockets, I think potential buyers would like to hear that said explicitly, because I dont believe it for a second.

Quote
y shows that we have not done such thing with our singles or Mini-Rigs. Even now that
we are announcing ASIC, we have the trade-in program to make sure our clients do not suffer investment loss to a newer
generation of mining platform.

Yes, but that offer will hardly cost you anything. Mind you, I think its a good idea, and Ill credit you for it,  but its nothing like the tradeoff you will have to make once difficulty begins skyrocketing.

Our general (and strict) policy is to make sure our clients recover their investment and make proper profit in a timely manner.
I cannot explicitly disclose more data prior to our announcement, but it would be sufficient to say that whatever path we choose
must and will be a 'win-win' path (even if it translates into loss of profit for us). Any other strategy will result in loss-of-client
which is certainly not what we're after.

Regards,
BF Labs Inc.

Tells us again about this win win path you were on Nasser Ghoseiri.

Case details

Court:   mowd
Docket #:   4:14-cv-00815
Case Name:   Federal Trade Commission v. BF Labs, Inc. et al
PACER case #:   117531
Date filed:   2014-09-15
Date of last filing:   2014-11-04
Assigned to:   District Judge Brian C. Wimes
Case Cause:   15:0053 Federal Trade Commission Act
Nature of Suit:   890 Other Statutory Actions
Jury Demand:   None
Jurisdiction:   U.S. Government Plaintiff


http://ia802308.us.archive.org/32/items/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531.docket.html


#askftc
796  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: [GUIDE] B's Moderated Biased & Opinionated Miner Sellers Trustworthiness Guide on: November 05, 2014, 07:41:46 AM
Technobit.eu not answering customers emails or posts.

Seems to be an ongoing mess with the operation of many of the Technobit.eu products requiring a lot of hand holding and reworking as well as RMA's. Unlike other fabricators where it is simply plug and play.

I hooked up my 3e miner today and im having some issue's with it..

it can not run on the default clock and voltage settings. it preforming 20 to 50% less than my other 2 and it cant run on lower clock setting like my other 2 miners can.. ?


Technobit.

I still did not recieve an answer to my problem.
Send you an email a week ago, no reply.. !!

And finally a customer gives up trying to get their boards.

I still waiting for technobit to shipped 67 more boards to me.  I would really like to transfer ownership to someone else. I'm asking $12,000 for 67 HEX4M boards, that's 26,800GH. Or make an offer I can't refuse.  BTC preferred, your choice of escrow.  Thank you..

Another ordered in August promised September shipment now November.

Has my order WDCXLFPXA been shipped yet? I placed this order for a HEX16E on the 4th of August, was told about the problems with it and it should be shipped at the end of September. Since then, nothing, not even an reply to my emails. My previous orders arrived ok so why not this one? I want my miner.

Same question again and again and again.

Marto any news when my 25 boards are gonna be shipped
797  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: Avalon4 (A3222, 28nm, ~25GHS, ~0.6W/G) sample chips available here: EHash.com on: November 04, 2014, 03:14:01 PM
With so many community members taking a loss directly or indirectly through Avalon failing to meet their schedule, we (together with other customers) need to consider taking serious actions to end this tragedy. - Zefir.


Not spam. However I would consider spam someone with 20 threads all pretty much selling space for their own gain. Funny they let you sell space inside your own threads. Seems counter intuitive for this board. But I am sure others have complained about that. That hints of a strong bias in what you post in these forums and consumers really need to be aware that you are being paid to avoid the ROI questions and boost sales of both your threads and their products.

Read the RED. Many millions were lost due to Avalon's failure just to deliver on time. The "compensation" that Zefir talks about didn't cover those losses and Avalon never admitted to causing those losses. Given the other nefarious stuff on the Avalon books with regards to their FPGA trade ins and so forth I can't see why anyone should trust a company with this sort of record. But that is my last post here on that subject. No one is going to buy these units. Too little, way overpriced and too late.

And again you never put out a TIMELINE for the units that these guys are supposedly building. Why is that? Is it because you do not know? Encouraging that you seem to ignore the basic information and questions that you yourself posed to BFL or other fabricators.

Where is the timeline for fabrication of these units that were supposed to be ready in October now November sometime?

798  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: Avalon4 (A3222, 28nm, ~25GHS, ~0.6W/G) sample chips available here: EHash.com on: November 04, 2014, 11:40:43 AM
BitSyncom / Yifu,

What are you going to do about the trade-ins that still have not been added to the store accounts?

Thus far you have done nothing.  Its been about 5 months.  Please take care of the trade-in issues.



5 months means 97% of the intrinsic value of a mining machine. By delaying 5 months, Yifu Guo essentially take away the 97% value from this program.

And I am very sure that this is intentional. They have planned this. They don't want to hold their words from the very beginnng. In the early time of this year, I talked with Xiangfu, a well known developer close with ngzhang (张楠庚)and Yifu team. He has tens of FPGA, but he just sold it on the market. I asked xiangfu why and he told me "he does not pay his attention on the trade-in program. (我并不关注这件事情。)" And I think xiangfu must have very early message from these liars that they planned to deliver the trade-in machine at very late stage, essentially destroy their words to the early supporters.

From Yifu Guo and ngzhang (张楠庚), I learnt how low a fucker can be. Liar. Scammer. Greedy.

We have not forgotten what Avalon did.

It is a fair warning to the public not to buy from Avalon given the nature of this company. It is not off topic.

Nor is it wrong to question the viability of these chips and any boards made from them. They are not viable and people should avoid this investment.

Update: Endgame

With ASICMINER today announcing blades for as low as 3.5BTC, it appeared that Avalon chips that do not mine today are not going to break even any more. While those blades went already out of stock after some hours, the new price for mining rig is officially set. Essentially this means that if Avalon does not ship the remaining chips fully within the next two weeks, they become worth less than their shipping costs.

Driven by this event, today I was flooded with refund requests that built up a queue of ~2000 chips. I do not expect any takers for this and it is realistic to assume that there will be no further refunds.


I am sad to admit that I do not believe in a fast and complete delivery of the remaining batches. This stopped to be a game the moment this group-buy alone funneled $500k to Avalon. Although we have only a small set of 'no BS rules', we still have a written commitment to deliver in time as part of the ToS. With so many community members taking a loss directly or indirectly through Avalon failing to meet their schedule, we (together with other customers) need to consider taking serious actions to end this tragedy.

At this stage our options are as follows:
  • A. sit and wait
    That was my tactics so far, assuming that civilized and respectful behavior will ensure to get our chips as fast as possible. This in fact might have been the reason why so far our group-buy got more chips than others, at the same time with a delivery of one batch per month our last will arrive mid 2014 - ready for re-direction to the Bitcoin museum Sad
  • B. demand full refund
    The majority would be fine with getting their invested coins back and let this chapter pass into oblivion. According to Avolon's ToS, there will be no refunds. But if they really care about Bitcoin and its community and realize how much harm they caused to so many of us, they might consider playing fair and send us the coins back. This implies that you do not want your chips any more.
  • C. negotiate for compensation
    While refunding all orders might exceed Avalon's capabilities, they might prefer offering a compensation in form of free chips or free upgrades to next-gen ones. This implies you would like continue dealing with Avalon.
  • D. legal action
    Leave the polite arena and sue them into ground; make an example of them and put an end to the pre-order madness in Bitcoinland. This implies you are willing to throw more good money after the bad - for a very limited expectation. Your money would feed some poor lawyers and Avalon if needed will declare bankruptcy (they said they do not control the collected funds any more).

I personally will approach Avalon with options B and C for now and consider combining forces with other group-buy organizers for D if we do not hear back within a reasonable time-frame. If you have a different opinion you'd like to share, please do so either here or via PM.

799  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: STOP BUYING MINING HARDWARE on: November 04, 2014, 10:04:05 AM
I wish he'd buy some punctuation.

I think you mean paragraphs?

Plenty of punctuation present.

Possibly he could have put in some point form and shortened the length of this text wall.

He is right on the money otherwise. Let me break it down.

Focus: Mining at the current and projected daily rates will not pay off.

Response: S2s being dumped for a fifth of what they originally sold for.

Situation: Background as to why he has done alright including questionable scam like activity on eBay on a charge-back and kept the miner etc blah blah and free electricity blah blah blah and he basically came out on top with free miner and zero running costs blah blah blah look at me I am cool right.

Conclusion: Find the best deal you can, if you are new miner, go on eBay get some S2s dirt cheap and get some free electricity but even then for the most part you would just be putting yourself in the hole. Bottom line no money to be made especially when I am scamming people out of their S2s.
800  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: [ANN] Spondoolies-Tech - carrier grade, data center ready mining rigs on: November 04, 2014, 07:55:29 AM
How much BTC would you guys pay for a used sp30 right now?

4BTC maybe

can a "hero" pawnshop move away to another thread, please.


You noobie Sr. Members just don't get it  Roll Eyes

i should intervene, at risk of going way off topic, you shouldn't ever buy mining equipment with BTC.
it's like buying BTC, with BTC  Roll Eyes
put those worthless $$$$ into buying SP31 and get the much more worthy BTC when you mine 'em!

Buy BTC with $$$ then buy miners with BTC is what I do, when and if the price is right and profitability / resale potential is possible. These units do have a strong resale value still. I am still mining with some S3s on an altcoin sold off my SP30s after a month solid mining them great machines. Our school is keen on getting some SP20s or C1s for fun and giggles later.
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