Interesting.

Attack the man.

Goes without saying you seem to ignore the point of others offering you advice.

How about you work on your thread and how transparent it is and I will work on mine and as for working on the Wasp there are 54 other people you included that are members of that group. Feel free to step up and do more if you like. As for Xian01... he should go worry about BCP19 and the BFL thread seems he can't leave that mole alone.

Interesting that no one commented on the ratings. Laughable.


EDIT: More to the point and the main reason a simple thumbs up thumbs down like this is more in keeping with the consumer focus that is required here in these forums. It really seems to me that the OTHER COMPREHENSIVE GUIDE is more about being fair to the manufacturer than being responsible to the consumer. So much for listening to the community.

Keen on seeing this come out.

What is the total investment you require to get this produced?

Raises many concerns if investors were hurt.

Are there instances of people being hurt in that IPO?

Or did everyone get money back and are or were not overly concerned with being dumped as investors?

Given what little I have read seems to be that they reimbursed everyone although there are some people who were at the time very pissed off. Not sure how that translates into loses at the time. But again that is something people need to consider when making a choice to buy. Ethics could be questioned here should there be some in the community that still feel this company can't be trusted. Anyhow doesn't look like you want to discuss what went on so I will have to review the thread on my own and ask people who were pissed at the time as IPO investors are still pissed now or feel injured as a result. Given their openness and delivery and zero issues with current shipping etc I feel comfortable putting them in the Thumbs Up on your advice. Thanks again.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=264696.msg2915126#msg2915126 <-- Example of pissed investor suggesting impropriety in the IPO compensation.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=264696.msg2914929#msg2914929 <-- Reason for cancelling the IPO.

Unlike Avalon who never came forward and explained what happened to our CHIPS and blaming the whole thing on Yifu without any clarification... I am much more comfortable with BTC Garden given how they rectified the IPO even with some complaints and how they deal in real time with customers in the thread as you pointed out. It is often more about how companies handle the problems than a seamless delivery on spec in my estimation.

Checking the threads... adding links soon.

IPO?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=264696.msg2922342#msg2922342

Does that not merit concerns for people?
Can you trust them given this sort of past behaviour?

Scanning threads for more.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622439.msg8147577#msg8147577 <-- Delivery 3 - 7 days... on spec only minor issues and they are very responsive and helpful in thread.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622439.msg8288576#msg8288576 <-- Responsive to customer calls for discounting of pricing.

I am moving them to Thumbs Up and will continue scanning. Thanks for the heads up Jimmothy.

But still let us have a serious discussion about the aborted IPO... doesn't that give you pause even with the good shipping etc I wonder how many people were hurt in the IPO. Smells bad can you give any insight into that? I will start reading through the IPO stuff now and comment later.

Yes I am a customer of both of these companies. I am hopeful that SPTech will compensate in a reasonable fashion. They have in the past. Minor issues with S2 Antminer Bitmaintech boards bouncing out during transport and dead PSU's but compensation was offered but shipping back a PSU makes little sense when you need to get these things up and running asap and the cost of boxing it up and VAT coming back etc just not worth it. Happy with both of these companies so far... and it is clear consumers are very happy with them as well. I am also keen on becoming a ROCKMINER customer soon.

There are a number of unresolved issues with some customers as well as scores of customers that were poorly treated and lied to directly and this is well documented in the threads. I can not recommend a company that is unwilling to resolve customer complaints. If those who were burned are made whole then I am more than willing to change my opinion. At this point I don't see how that is going to happen given the stance of the company towards some of their customers. Given what passes as customer service it is not a company I would recommend based on even present threads in the last few weeks with regards to RMA's.

This is not a guide on how fast you come to market. It is a guide on how well you deal with the consumer bottomline and there are clearly persistent issues with this company and their treatment of consumers. I would never personally recommend a company that has outstanding issues with the community especially when you might even have suspicions they use multiple accounts to misrepresent their customer service. There is clearly an inordinate amount of NEW members posting on how great the Technobit service is. It is an anomaly that doesn't go unnoticed by senior members and should give you pause about the reality with that company especially given how many complaints there are right up to today.

As an example Avalon would be thumbs down until we are given the whole story of what went down during the chip fiasco last year. You can't rely on a company that has willfully ignored the community asking for accountability. As such you are much better off dealing only with companies that have proven trustworthy. Again my opinion but there is certainly less risk involved dealing with companies on the THUMBS UP side vs. the THUMBS DOWN side.

Bitmain or Rockminer does very well shipping almost real time with minimal delays / pre-order and at a reasonable price. Why not use them over a company that could be suspect? That to me is why you use this guide. You cut through the crap and get to the point. Who is reliable all the time. The pattern continues... be warned.

Thanks for the feedback. Yes there are many stories like those about KnC unfortunately. Can't recommend a company that uses it's customers in that fashion.

Late delivery?

No?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg8244455#msg8244455

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg8234449#msg8234449

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg8194146#msg8194146

Seems to me customers are NOT happy. So my opinion is don't buy KnC.

Same with BFL for obvious reasons.

There are only 2 categories here. Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down. Not doing any "comprehensive" assessment here just basing off a simple set of criteria. Has the company in question delivered on time, to spec and if not have they compensated everyone properly or done everything in their power to provide a fair and equitable solution to the consumers who have legitimate complaints.

[UPDATES]

25.SEP.2014

Loshia / Marto74 concerted effort to spam this thread goes on. Thanks for keep the thread at the top for me fellas more people get to see the message never buy Technobit. Keep spamming please.

23.SEP.2014

FTC shutsdown BFL


31.AUG.2014

Minersource added to Thumbs Down list. Regardless of the causes no one at this point no one can claim that Minersource has delivered everything promptly, and compensated everyone appropriately. There are a significant number of outstanding issues with this supplier on several fronts. Best to avoid them entirely.

21.AUG.2014

Revised Thumbs Up section with appropriate company name as IASICMINER which is clearly separate from The ASICMINER Project although promoted by FriedCat the people you are dealing with are different than FriedCat. I will continue to review the information if there is more concrete information that The ASICMINER Project and IASICMINER should be considered the same company / people then I will update. As it stands now they are different people given the posts. The suggested edit came from aerobatic which led me to revise in this manner. Thanks for the heads up aerobatic.

19.AUG.2014

Bitmaintech resolves issue. I feel that this was an oversight and they are now compliant I hope.


17.AUG.2014

Have added the AsicMiner Tube page here to the list. http://www.iasicminer.com/index.php/action-channel-name-home  
Have added CanaryInTheMine's Group Buy for AsicMiner Tubes here. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=735982.msg8313995#msg8313995

Notice... watching carefully how Bitmaintech handles the calls from CKolivas to provide the code. This could push the rating to Thumbs Down if Bitmaintech doesn't make good on providing the code as per the license. Requested here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=671189.msg8302469#msg8302469


16.AUG.2014

Have added a 2 resellers of miners that currently have excellent shipping records.

CrazyGuy's ASICpuppy Miner Reseller (https://asicpuppy.com/magentoPuppy/)
PCFLI Miner Reseller (http://www.easy2mine.com)

[Thumbs Up]

Reputable companies that you can expect delivery on time and to spec and will when they are in error provide reasonable and equitable relief to the customers satisfaction. In no particular order of importance.

AAUER1's Twinfury USB Miner
The ASICMINER Project
IASCICMINER (Asicminer Tube Miner Promoted by FriedCat)
Ben Turas One String Miner
Bitfury
Bitmaintech
BTCGarden
CanaryInTheMine Group Buy AsicMiner Tube's
CrazyGuy's ASICpuppy Miner Reseller
Easy 2 Mine owned by 李培才
Rockminer
Spondoolies Tech
VS3's Nanofury USB Miner
Yiazo

-------------------------------------------



[Thumbs Down]

Unreputable companies that have provided late delivery or not to spec and will not or have yet to provided adequate relief to customers when the company is in error. In no particular order of importance.

KNC
CoinTerra   
Butterfly Labs
HashFast
Bitmine
Technobit
Avalon
Black Arrow
AMT
VMC
nTek
Minersource

-------------------------------------------

[REASONING]

Here is my biased and opinionated guide on purchasing hardware. I am only taking into account which companies have, in my personal assessment, a reputation for delivering on time and to spec without any significant or outstanding customer service issues. This is not a comparative chart it is merely a suggestion for consumers looking for a starting point rather than having to read through all the forums and other media.

As the OP I am willing to move companies in or out of either area given sufficient complaints from customers or sufficient rectification of past indiscretions based sufficient CUSTOMER feedback from those who were injured initially. Feel free to discuss my biased and opinionated ratings in this an unmoderated thread. I value the opinions of actual customers over the fabricator in every case. If you are here to troll me I will simply ignore you and move on to the topic at hand.

Please note there are only two categories so you will need to weigh the merits on your own and determine whether or not you would recommend someone trust a company to deliver on time and to specification and will if in error resolve any and all disputes with their customer base. Let me know if I am missing any fabricators far or wide inside or outside bitcointalk remember NO SCRYPT or ALTCOIN. ONLY SHA256 box makers please. Obviously we will just avoid the outright scams that never shipped a unit right? And please make sure to debate vigorously if you feel I am wrong in my opinion. I will change it based on evidence of customer support for the company is fairly universal.

Remember this guide is just the starting point. You can scan the list and agree or disagree and do your own research. I am giving you my best appraisal based on the reading of the bitcointalk forums and other sources. It is not a comparison of companies. It is just meant to give you a starting point especially for new members to source miners. And as always... read the Caveat Emptor by Gmaxwell and learn any purchase of mining equipment is a crapshoot at best. Good Luck hope it helps you avoid the pitfalls when buying miners.

Oh here is a great rant about ROI. Some rants about Financial ROI by TheRealSteve


-------------------------------------------

Made sure to note that I do not trust either bbxx or his "brother". If you want to act like clowns good luck keeping a positive trust rating. It is people like this that make BTC a minefield for consumers and sellers alike.

Should it be stickied? No.
Should he continue helping people make better choices? Sure.
Should he try to listen and take constructive criticism to help improve his system? Ya he should and this is where he is failing right now.

Regardless of his system or the detailed length he goes into it or how well it is done it still is a PERSONAL evaluation based on his set of criteria. No one person is capable of collecting all the relevant information and compile it into something that can guide people to make the best choice especially given the omission of all the consumer feedback available. Call it bias or omission there are certainly many ways he can improve his rating system. Many people have posted how if he doesn't want to listen to a significant number of people then don't expect too much support for the idea of communal board to accept a 1 person benchmarked system. Sorry nope no matter how "fair" the system he creates is it has not taken a proper accounting of consumer feedback.

Is selling overpriced hardware on Ebay to noobs not working out for you anymore? h my.

No. This is an argument you are not taking into account others opinions and that it would require other outside opinions or data to balance out your personal opinions on those who have caused a great deal of harm to a significant number of people. Your scale is flawed or biased take your pick and it can always be improved.

You should refine your system or add more people to the process to have this guide stickied. However yours is the best guide even with those narrow limitations of a single editor being placed on it. You are one person with an inherent bias like any other individual on this planet no matter how transparent you are you are still bias. The assumptions you make bleed into the system you build and without taking measure of alternative opinions particularly those that have had many negative experiences with some of those with "positive" ratings your system is flawed.

+1 Nail hit straight on the head.

If you are not looking toward PH/s then I suspect you will be shutting it down. You need some efficiency to keep playing with the big boys and you need to pool your resources. Home mining is not going to cut it anymore.

Thanks for the quick response, warning and subsequent fix. Seems to me like the usual for SPTech. Admit the problem, fix the problem and make the customers happy.

If it were a trustworthiness guide worked on by a committee of consumers and interested parties then maybe it be worth a sticky. As it is now it is just a personal evaluation of the mining scene. It has value but again it is still one persons opinion and that is where it may lack integrity as there needs to be checks and balances in any review system. If you had just 2 or 3 more people contributing and evaluating anonymously it would certainly be worthy of a sticky.

Having said that though. This is the only really in depth guide available currently that attempts to really quantify trustworthiness of fabricators and it is very useful if you simply buy from top people on the list that have ZERO outstanding complaints in these forums. It could be better if there was a team or use of data that was not personally compiled by Dogie (surveys) or takes into account the countless threads that point to inconsistencies in some fabricators trustworthiness who are listed on his guide. Unfortunately this often overlooked or ignored in Dogies' evaluations and where the guide breaks down several times. This is not about "haters" it is about getting a more equitable guide for the community that reflects the complete picture so that fewer people are steered towards those companies still causing problems for customers. Maybe Dogies should look at adding a few people to the team to support his guide the sticky won't get full support of the community otherwise.

300 PH unrealistic zvisha? Bitfury, AM and KnC, BitMain and others didn't get the memo.

Not so sure that is the way to hedge given that BTC price could go well over $1000 USD.

Theft... flooding... condensation... etc

At the time of purchase it was roughly 14th August through 21st August range that most of the group buy would ship if I remember correctly based on RoadStress and SPTech comments / communication because there was a production per day number and start date and it was what 250 units in the group buy again if I go by the emails right?

It would be nice in future if there was a more precise timeline for delivery posted for customers only this sort of loose speculation is not helpful given there is a clear timeline for production that has not been interrupted according to SPTech. You should be able to accurately determine shipping within a few days. SPTech certainly has the capabilities to provide that sort detailed information directly to customers and given the anxiety level it would just be the right thing for customers to get.