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181  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoin Purchasing Power Over Time on: March 13, 2014, 03:55:16 PM
If you think US$ is going to tank in the next few years, you are dreaming. I understand that US$ is INFLATIONARY currency, like all other fiat currency around the world. However, there's no way that a Starbucks coffee is going to cost $1000 in the next few years.

Full disclosure: I am a US resident since early 1980's.

I remember a gallon of gas (about 4 liters) costing about $1 in the 80's and 90's; now it's about $4/gallon. Also, a Big Mac cost around a $1, now it's around $4 too. So, yeah, in 20-30 years, inflation has caught up to be about 400 %, I'd imagine. Considering that US economy is a bit better from Zimbabwe or just about any other nation in the world, I'd say the possibility of a cup of coffee costing $1000 in the next few years to be zero. Maybe in the next 50 years.

Checking right now some calculators for inflation as I get mixed results.
90- till now (24 years) it shows 83% no way near 400%

Of course the 1000$ coffee is almost impossible in two or 3 years , but in 10-20 , god knows what may happen


not sure how you came about that figure, but it is, unfortunately, impossible to do a proper calculation. inflation rates are likely underreported on the one hand, and don't take into account the approx. $85 Billion being pumped into banks monthly as part of QE. you'd be surprised how much bigger of a problem inflation is than what is commonly understood. i also believe that, due to nominal price increases in things like gas and coffee, that real total inflation is around 300-400% since 1990.

--arepo
182  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: March 13, 2014, 05:26:56 AM
I honestly and truly believe that almost all the inefficiencies can be attributed to meddling governments and political entrepreneurship of anti-competitive companies. I recognize this is a minority view, but I am prepared to argue it.

let's move this away from generalities, which are all well-hashed arguments on both sides, and focus on the specifics that we see in the global market today.

for instance, how is the poverty trap created by Walmart-esque wage suppression coupled with high unemployment rates attributable to governments? how is the large environmental externality of shipping and manufacturing attributable to governments?

the short answer is: they're not. but i'm sure you'll give me a longer answer Tongue
183  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: March 13, 2014, 04:30:10 AM
There's another explanation. "On 15 August 1971, the United States unilaterally terminated convertibility of the US$ to gold." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bretton_Woods_system

can you demonstrate how the Bretton Woods System would have the aforementioned effect on productivity and wages? cum hoc ergo propter hoc is a logical fallacy.

Here's my quick and facile go at it:  Stagflation was the direct and immediate result.  The mechanism for that should be obvious.  The consequences to the livelihoods of the proles likewise.


yes, i can understand how the effects on the purchasing power of the dollar drove the real value of wages down, but does that explain the decoupling of productivity and employment rates, as well?
184  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: March 13, 2014, 03:59:41 AM
so what ultimately determines wages is productivity

unfortunately, the data has shown that this is not true anymore, and hasn't been for more than 4 decades.


i agree that government and bureaucracy is in a large part obstructing some of the natural restructuring that would otherwise occur in the free market in today's stratified society. however, it is obvious that a paradigm shift occurred around 1970 when productivity, employment rates, and wages decoupled. i don't think it is a coincidence that this lines up with a shift towards automative replacement of many jobs, in both unskilled and skilled labor.

There's another explanation. "On 15 August 1971, the United States unilaterally terminated convertibility of the US$ to gold." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bretton_Woods_system

can you demonstrate how the Bretton Woods System would have the aforementioned effect on productivity and wages? cum hoc ergo propter hoc is a logical fallacy.

Quote
Quote
"this coupled with the severe contraction of the economy in 2008 and the jobless recovery since has produced and maintained feedback loops manifesting themselves as rapid stratification in both income and wealth distribution in the US and the world: wage suppression, natural monopolization and other effects of economies of scale, globalization of economies corresponding to globalization of inequality, and large profits for the business and financial elite corresponding to large negative externalities for everyone else. each of these items could be expanded into an entire thesis, but i won't go into more detail. the point is that each of these things are independent feedback loops that support and accelerate wealth inequality."

There is no such thing as "natural monopolization". Governments create monopolies. The free market resists them as mass resists acceleration. The only business model that can't be copied is government-mandated exclusivity. Bitcoin is probably the best example of free market dominance and even it faces hundreds of competitors eating into it's market share.

there is very much so such a thing as a natural monopoly and if you disagree you are at odds with basic economics. you also conveniently forgot to address every other item on that list. there is no "free market" ideal, there is only the apparatus that exists, and the present apparatus rewards huge negative externalities and is perpetuating and accelerating wealth inequality, both things which render it unsustainable in the long term. high rates of unemployment coupled with wage suppression creates poverty traps worse than the welfare state. we're not talking about "Capitalism" or "The Free Market", we're talking about global capitalism as it exists today, and the global market. the ills are most certainly not the sole fault of governments, and scapegoating them in this way is a dangerous misdirection away from the real issues endemic in the apparatus that are contributing to the suffering of millions...

in other words, i don't care about your lofty Randian free market ideals. while capitalism may be "the best solution we can aspire to", and that would be hard to disagree with, it is also clear that our present form of global capitalism is suffering from a huge amount of inefficiencies, many of which cannot be attributed to meddling governments. how can we reconcile these two things? i have no clue, but we've first got to get our heads out of our asses and stop worshipping the sacred cow long enough to think critically about why the apparatus is failing at efficiently distributing resources.

--arepo
185  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: March 13, 2014, 01:15:58 AM
There are skilled labor shortages in many industries. There are unskilled labor surpluses. The free market could easily and quickly solve both these problems if the government would get out of the way.

i agree that government and bureaucracy is in a large part obstructing some of the natural restructuring that would otherwise occur in the free market in today's stratified society. however, it is obvious that a paradigm shift occurred around 1970 when productivity, employment rates, and wages decoupled. i don't think it is a coincidence that this lines up with a shift towards automative replacement of many jobs, in both unskilled and skilled labor.

this coupled with the severe contraction of the economy in 2008 and the jobless recovery since has produced and maintained feedback loops manifesting themselves as rapid stratification in both income and wealth distribution in the US and the world: wage suppression, natural monopolization and other effects of economies of scale, globalization of economies corresponding to globalization of inequality, and large profits for the business and financial elite corresponding to large negative externalities for everyone else. each of these items could be expanded into an entire thesis, but i won't go into more detail. the point is that each of these things are independent feedback loops that support and accelerate wealth inequality.

these issues are not directly traceable to meddling governments but may be exacerbated by them. it is particularly misguided to place the blame on governments when these problems are endemic to the apparatus as it stands now that we call Modern Capitalism. it is difficult for some to accept that the sacred cow of "capitalism" may have some natural tendencies towards non-optimal states, but the truth is that the free market is not an ideal, it is a thing that exists in practice, in many forms. some forms may be more desireable than others, and i certainly do not think the state of the apparatus as it exists now is desireable.

--arepo
186  Economy / Speculation / Re: I'm All In - Sold My House! on: March 12, 2014, 10:20:57 PM
so much aggression in this thread Huh
187  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Let's change to milli bitcoin already! on: March 12, 2014, 10:18:51 PM
do you regularly pay for coke cans in postage stamps? or is BTC trading at a much higher price on your planet? Tongue
188  Economy / Speculation / Re: Challenge: if you really are a guru, post trades in real time on: March 12, 2014, 06:50:15 PM
Information leak can only hurt one's competitive position.

this. game theory, guys.

No way. If one is good, he can only gain following to help him to move the market where he wants it, at least a bit.

i'm fairly confident that (in general) any price manipulation would be costly, not profitable.

your scenario is discussed in the section titled "The Trading Metagame". the example i used is manipulating trading signals in indicators, but the analysis is relevant to any method that relies on inducing a certain action by other traders.

the take-away is that while this kind of manipulation may be able to yield profits in the short-term, it is unstable. that is, it cannot be performed consistently to yield profits.

--arepo
189  Economy / Speculation / Re: Challenge: if you really are a guru, post trades in real time on: March 12, 2014, 05:14:01 PM
Information leak can only hurt one's competitive position.

this. game theory, guys.
190  Economy / Speculation / Re: It's been three months... on: March 12, 2014, 02:05:09 PM
Be patient guys, we all gonna be rich Smiley

this is why we're not bubbling up yet. still too many weak hands in the market...
191  Economy / Speculation / UPDATE -- first test of the model on: March 12, 2014, 11:18:59 AM
---
6-hour scale w/ mid-term resistance from figure on page 10, and a short-term moving support


https://i.imgur.com/Qva2Y7S.png

---

So we're running out of space here, and one of these bounds will have to fail. it still doesn't seem like we have enough volume to break above the mid-term resistance. the expected strong bounce down would send us slowly towards the mid-term support i noted in the newsletter, and you can continue to use the model i presented to trade the range. a break above the mid-term resistance would falsify this model.

here's the resource you can use to reconstruct the lines. use the "/" button to the right of the "Settings | Tools" panel.

--arepo

192  Economy / Lending / Re: A loan from justanickname to arepo on: March 10, 2014, 10:10:50 PM
justanickname is lending  5 BTC to arepo for a period of 100 days,

from justanickname's address 1DjY14jzd7bwSvJ3e1qDKqAstoFMwPcJUm to arepo's address  14uq7t7CmbGoLGEaXS7xhwpEEbeosXVtUd

arepo must pay justanickname 6 BTC to 1DjY14jzd7bwSvJ3e1qDKqAstoFMwPcJUm by June 19, 2014

confirmed

Proof of my 5 btc loan to arepo:

https://blockchain.info/tx/cc7e7931926e99e30053e8380f4a3d7c7bd581565d20e52c0c85227535876679


receipt confirmed, thanks again.

--arepo
193  Economy / Speculation / Re: Arepo's Weekly Newsletter Discussion Thread on: March 10, 2014, 08:46:49 PM
To me it seems that the 'factor of 3' is not correct. So far, the bear market (not just a correction) has been slower than that.
From 25th April to 3rd May 2013, there were 9 days to drop from the top of wave B. Now from the 6th January to the
25th February, the same drop from the top of wave B took 49 days. So it's more like 'factor of 5'. In April 2013 the corrective wave A
has been harsh, with lots of volume, and that's why it moved fast. The pace slowed in May, so this factor of 5 may need adjusting.
But it's too early to tell if the current market has completed one upward sub-sub-wave and a small correction and has begun the
second upward sub-sub-wave, that could reach 750$ if seller pressure won't be high.

it's difficult for me to analyse your figure because i don't deal much with elliot waves. my analysis was using a different fractal model which focussed on the patterning of capitulation events. either way, i don't doubt that your data may suggest that as it is using a different model. that is, both of our interpretations are likely correct, we are just measuring different dimensions.

--arepo
194  Economy / Lending / Re: A loan from justanickname to arepo on: March 10, 2014, 08:39:41 PM
justanickname is lending  5 BTC to arepo for a period of 100 days,

from justanickname's address 1DjY14jzd7bwSvJ3e1qDKqAstoFMwPcJUm to arepo's address  14uq7t7CmbGoLGEaXS7xhwpEEbeosXVtUd

arepo must pay justanickname 6 BTC to 1DjY14jzd7bwSvJ3e1qDKqAstoFMwPcJUm by June 19, 2014

confirmed
195  Economy / Speculation / Re: Arepo's Weekly Newsletter Discussion Thread on: March 10, 2014, 06:48:17 PM
Very happy with your first newsletter. Exactly the kind of mixture I was looking for: solid mid-term analysis, with some derived short-term recommendations.

Some (critical) remarks, if you allow:

(1) You show evidence for the 'factor 3' hypothesis, i.e. that we play out the correction at a speed 3 times as slow as that of April 2013. But in the end you don't make the obvious conclusion: that if we don't just see the local minima so far 3 times slower, but the *overall* correction will be at that speed, then we're in for another few months of bear market. Don't get me wrong, I don't believe there's a conclusive answer to this question (yet), but it's a bit strange IMO to bring up the 'factor 3' argument, but then not mentioning the possibility of a sustained downtrend.

(2) Your trendlines are a bit debatable. You go to great lengths to build them on as many points of contact as possible (i.e. you're rigorous), but then you're quite quick to declare candles that fall outside as "outliers", which is problematic in my opinion. In the end, I see more or less the same figure you describe, but I just wanted to remark on the 'points of contact' vs. 'outliers' problem (specifically, the chart on page 10)

But in the end, that's details... you did a great job, in my opinion.

thanks for the feedback Smiley

i'm not sure i quite follow your first criticism. it is true that the April bubble shows a fifth capitulation, "E"; is this what you are referring to? i'm not sure i would describe the intervening price action as a bear market, though. also, from what i can gather, you're talking about a conclusion for the mid-term, which i intentionally was not focussing on. the main reason so much of this issue handled the mid-term picture is because it's always good to be aware of the larger price environment within which these weekly actions are embedded, and the picture i conveyed is the model we're probably going to be working with for the next few issues at least. also in this case, it can inform us pretty well on the weekly scale, but if you're wondering why a conclusion about the mid-term price behavior is missing, that is the reason.

as for (2), i do see your point. i assume you take issue more with the drawn support than the resistance. remember on page 6 and 7, i demonstrate how the CCI data supports the conjecture that d2 is an outlier, so that takes care of the most recent violation. i also think that the consistency of the 'factor 3' data calls d2 into suspicion, by the principle of parsimony. further, the 'cuspiness' of the price action below this support during the two brief periods it was violated is further evidence. all that, however, is in the report, so i assume that doesn't satisfy?

--arepo
196  Economy / Speculation / Re: Arepo's Weekly Newsletter Discussion Thread on: March 10, 2014, 03:30:17 PM
The first issue was just sent out to the following users:

oda.krell
docile
John999
kramerc
iron77
kwest
jlin
CoinBurner

Thanks for your support and happy trading!
197  Economy / Speculation / Arepo's Weekly Newsletter Discussion and Analysis on: March 10, 2014, 03:28:01 PM
Arepo's Weekly Newsletter, running through 23 June 2014.

New Pricing Tiers! (as of 30 March)

0.025 BTC -- 1 issue
0.085 BTC -- 4 issues
0.25 BTC -- 12 issues

I am opening this thread as a center of discussion for my weekly publication. Please feel free to post any questions, comments, and other feedback here. Non-subscribers are welcome and encouraged. Subscribers, try to refrain from posting newsletter content in this thread. If you have a content-specific question, feel free to PM or email me.

General commentary, supplementary analysis, and alerts in the event of a mid-week update will be posted here.

I am always accepting new subscriptions, so PM me if you are interested! Smiley

Current Subscriber List:

oda.krell -- 16 issues (expires week of 23 June)
docile -- 16 issues (expires week of 23 June)
John999 -- 8 issues (expires week of 28 April)
kramerc -- 8 issues (expires week of 28 April)
iron77 -- 8 issues (expires week of 28 April)
kwest -- 4 issues (expires week of 31 March)
jlin -- 16 issues (expires week of 23 June)
CoinBurner -- 4 issues (expires week of 31 March)
Aquatic -- 16 issues (expires week of 23 June)
Blue -- 16 issues (expires week of 23 June)
Ultros -- 4 issues (expires week of 14 April)
Roger_Murdock -- 16 issues (expires week of 23 June)
rushthatspeaks -- 4 issues (expires week of 14 April)
Vectra -- 1 issue (week of 24 March)
castle -- 12 issues (expires week of 23 June)
damdam -- 4 issues (expires week of 21 April)
windjc -- 4 issues (expires week of 21 April)
CoolStoryBro -- 4 issues (expires week of 28 April)
whiz1003 -- 12 issues (expires week of 23 June)
198  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoin looking very weak at mid $600 on: March 10, 2014, 04:43:34 AM
The problem with using the word 'manipulation' is that idiots get this confused with actual problems like 'insider trading'.

The word 'manipulation' is most frequently used on these forums to reference ordinary traders that simply have lots of money, i.e. 'whales'.  These people are the exact same as everyone else in that they're just trading and trying to make a profit.  Calling this 'manipulation' is stupid because this makes everyone a manipulator.  But, erecting huge buy/sell walls or pumping and dumping isn't manipulation -- it's called being wealthy.

Save the term 'manipulation' for devious practice like insider trading and otherwise.

+1

i have outlined in the past the basic idea here, but in more rigorous terms using concepts from game theory applied to the concept of market efficiency. the reasoning behind why even individuals with large amounts of capital in proportion to the average market participant would find it difficult to manipulate the market in any profitable way goes as follows:

Market efficiency
the market moves to minimize traders' profits -- this is a consequence of efficiency. in a market that is perfectly efficient, there would be zero excess profits. by my own experience and the collective experience of this subforum, i think we can safely assume that the bitcoin price function does not exhibit this kind of perfect efficiency (and i would argue that no market does, but that's another topic).

Profit-minimization in (mostly) efficient markets
each time profit is extracted from the market, it causes the price to converge on its "true" price. that is, the process of correctly anticipating market behavior and extracting profits makes the market more efficient. for instance, speculators who can guess where a natural price support is (which is determined by the emergent behavior of the sum total market participants) will exert buying pressure below this support, thereby strengthening it. a mostly efficient market quickly recovers from flash crashes like the one on 24 Feb by this exact process. if the bitcoin price remains undervalued for too long, excess profits can be made by buying low and selling high (and vice versa), so speculators enforce efficiency by buying sudden dips that have a disproportionately large effect on price due to slippage. this is also the mechanism for "corrections" due to profit-taking during periods of rapid price gains.

The cost of market manipulation
now, in this way, the market rewards successful speculators with the few spare profits available from lapses in efficiency like in the examples above. following from this relationship between the theoretical "true" value and the actual stochastic price function which approximates this value, the most profitable move is always the one which enforces efficiency, that is, the move which converges the ticker price to this underlying "true" value. in other words, generally speaking, the most profitable move is one which anticipates trends, not contradicts them. in fact, it also follows from the above relationship that direct price manipulation would be costly, not profitable, because any true manipulation would move the price further away from the "true" price, which is equivalent to creating more inefficiency. this correlates to more excess profits, and the game is zero-sum! it follows that the profits created come from the pocket of the manipulator.

The trading metagame
i do feel i must address the idea that certain clever manipulators may be able to beat a metagame of inducing signals in indicators upon which other traders rely (e.g. creating a "false" crossover). in this situation, the manipulator tricks other market participants into inducing inefficiency through their actions, and then scoops up the excess profits thereby created for themselves! this is a nuanced kind of manipulation that relies on the metagame revolving around anticipating the strategies of other traders. however, this meta-strategy is subject to the same pressures it exploits, as any other market participant may be able to consistently anticipate it and scoop up the profits before the original manipulator does. in this way, the manipulator is still bound by the rules of the "game", and cannot use this meta-strategy to consistently extract excess profits. once the manipulator's own behavior becomes predictable, it is no longer profitable.

in closing: the market incentivizes all participants to enforce trends (by means of profits), and deters them from violating them (by means of costs),

and the corollary: any manipulative meta-strategy that can consistently extract profits can and will be exploited by other participants and thereby neutralized by the same principle.

i hope this issue can now be solidly put to rest. however, i have a sinking feeling i'll be making the same post in another six months or so Cheesy

--arepo
199  Economy / Speculation / Re: Introducing Arepo's Weekly Newsletter on: March 09, 2014, 09:45:30 PM
No problem. I look forward to the first newsletter.
I remember enjoying your posts before you took off for a while.. I was gonna donate then but never did, so it's about time.

no problem! it's really unfortunate that i haven't been able to maintain a more consistent presence on the forums in the past, due to bitcoin-external responsibilities, but that's why i am happy to see the newsletter's popularity. your support has made it possible for me to dedicate my efforts for the next four months, at least.

--arepo

200  Economy / Speculation / Re: Introducing Arepo's Weekly Newsletter on: March 09, 2014, 06:32:37 PM
two more subscriptions from kwest and jlin today just confirmed. thanks for the support Smiley

--arepo
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