margin - Bitcoin Trading Bot: Binance, Coinbase Pro, Bittrex, HitBTC, Bitfinex..

[gnoe]

Ok, Bait and switch your Hero customers?  Really Jonathan? If we pay for lifetime 7 exchanges, that's what we should be getting! API updates included etc.  I can understand why you'd start charging new customers for a subscription model on the rebrand, but COME ON!  Rebrand the software to a new name and make this an excuse to be able to start charging your so called 'hero' customers?  Even saying if we subscribe within a month of it running out we'll be eligable for a 50% discount on all future subscriptions is an affront to everyone who purchased your Ultimate lifetime package.  I'm totally not happy and I also believed that you would honor the lifetime updates and improvements to keep Leonardo/Margin working for all your previous 'hero' customers.

I think this is time for a personal email to you to see what you are prepared to do for previous customers.  This is DISGUSTING.

Let me get this straight. You bought an Ultra license in May 2017 for $179. For that you got the following:

1) Updates to leonArdo/margin for the best part of two years
2) 50% discount if you decide to subscribe after that time
3) You get to keep leonArdo FOR LIFE

I'm totally not happy and I also believed that you would honor the lifetime updates

You believed? Well, there's a life lesson for you. Find me where we promised you that anywhere?

Read back through my previous posts. This was a decision we had to take. Otherwise there was every chance that we would have had to close up shop. You wouldn't get updates then either.

This is the only way to ensure a sustainable company.

Wow, that's great !!!

We, the 'hero' idiots ...I mean the 'hero' customers are getting bullied by Mr. Jonathan now.
That must be the German way of supporting leoNardo customers.

Thanks for the life lesson.

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[yhbae]

Jonathan, I currently own a license just for Bittrex. The idea was to test on Bittrex first then see what happens.

Now, I need Binance support as well quite badly. But I'm not quite sure what is the right direction right now since you are in the middle of switching the platform. Does it make sense to get a license for Leonardo on Binance right now or should I wait? My intention is to try out the new subscription model as well but I would need both Bittrex and Binance support.

Thank you.

[Rapturoso]

Jonathan, I currently own a license just for Bittrex. The idea was to test on Bittrex first then see what happens.

Now, I need Binance support as well quite badly. But I'm not quite sure what is the right direction right now since you are in the middle of switching the platform. Does it make sense to get a license for Leonardo on Binance right now or should I wait? My intention is to try out the new subscription model as well but I would need both Bittrex and Binance support.

Thank you.

Well now that Jonathan has announced that he will disregard the valid complaints of his loyal customers, there are better options that us at Crypto Play Radio Discord are reviewing.

If you want to come and have a chat there, we can offer something much better than Leonardo/Margin now that Jonathan has essentially stuck the middle finger up to the sales contract he entered into with his customers when selling lifetime licenses for Leonardo.

Our link for Discord is below. Just talk to Yopilax, Konsequence, Boberino or anyone else in the LIVE CHAT and radio_text channels and we will get some alternatives for you that you will be pleased with.  Be patient as we do sometimes sleep and stay in channel :-P  You will get a response when we wake.

Crypto Play Radio Discord https://discord.gg/7VPvgrm

[leonArdo@margin]

You believed? Well, there's a life lesson for you. Find me where we promised you that anywhere?

Read back through my previous posts. This was a decision we had to take. Otherwise there was every chance that we would have had to close up shop. You wouldn't get updates then either.

This is the only way to ensure a sustainable company.

Of course I believed your advertising on your site Jonathan. That's what it said on your website at the time of my purchase. If you happen to have changed it since then that's not my issue but yours. Wordplay doesn't absolve you from being responsible to your lifetime customers. Also when one buys lifetime access to software that promises access to 7 exchanges then that's what we expect, something that allows access for a lifetime and this dictates that the software be updated to allow us to do so. API changes on exchanges will render Leonardo useless so these issues need to be addressed if you want people to still be able to use their lifetime license and keep their software and be able to still use it.  Simply keeping Leonardo isn't adequate.  It must still be able to be used otherwise what's the point? It's like saying I can keep a Banana but expecting me to believe it's going to be edible years later.  Ridiculous!

Also don't be patronising by telling me I've learned a life lesson. When a company advertises 7 exchanges for lifetime use then that's what one should expect, not your disgraceful bait and switch. Fair enough, charge your new customers a subscription model but don't hold your older customers to ransom!

You say I've have had updates for the best part of 2 years. How is May 2017 2 years since my lifetime purchase? I think your maths is just a little bit skewed there.

If you remember correctly, I was complaining that Leonardo would completely refuse to run on machines with huge page support enabled. Obviously as Crypto traders there's a high probability that we will also be crypto miners and large pages in memory is required for cryptonight CPU mining.

I also complained that Leonardo would crash after using just over 1GB of memory and generally keep crashing on Windows overnight.  You said this was because it's not compiled the same on Windows as it is with Linux and Mac OS and it is related to being compiled for 32bit rather than 64 bit or something like that.  Whatever it was, it doesn't work properly.  So I patiently waited for you to fix this.  To this day you say you have still not completed a fix.  You still say the memory issue has not yet been fully resolved.

I have been completely unable to use Leonardo until the first part of this year when 3.8 was released.

I haven't even had a chance to get a return on investment with the purchase price in Bitcoin of Leonardo lifetime licence yet and you argue that shafting your existing customers is the only way to survive? Get real.

I shall be now looking elsewhere for a solution that isn't going to screw me over less than a 10 months after purchase.  I shall not be recommending Margin to anyone and instead I will be recommending against it.  It;s not ready for prime time.  What it can do right now is great but it is far from a professional product and by no means ready for a tiered subscription model either.  There's just too much missing, even if you weren't rebranding to shaft your previous customers. Despicable.

Suggestion, Don't rebrand and keep your lifetime customers happy and only charge new customers the subscription model, otherwise you're just going to lose customers with this unethical move.

That's what it said on your website at the time of my purchase. If you happen to have changed it since then that's not my issue but yours.

It never said lifetime updates. Perhaps you choose to read it that way, but the language was always consistent.

You say I've have had updates for the best part of 2 years. How is May 2017 2 years since my lifetime purchase? I think your maths is just a little bit skewed there.

Get my maths right? You get another year FREE on margin.

Are you the same person that posted this earlier today?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3082921.msg31821348#msg31821348

I purchased it long ago and have never once looked back.  

Oh, and this

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3082921.msg31816095#msg31816095

I have also used this trading terminal successfully since last year and I have never experienced any inadequacies.  The interface is amazing and simple enough to manage many exchanges and see at a glance where you are with any trade, current or historic. It is simply good at what it does and now very stable after plenty of improvements and optimisations.

Or did someone hack your account?

[yhbae]

Jonathan, I currently own a license just for Bittrex. The idea was to test on Bittrex first then see what happens.

Now, I need Binance support as well quite badly. But I'm not quite sure what is the right direction right now since you are in the middle of switching the platform. Does it make sense to get a license for Leonardo on Binance right now or should I wait? My intention is to try out the new subscription model as well but I would need both Bittrex and Binance support.

Thank you.

Well now that Jonathan has announced that he will disregard the valid complaints of his loyal customers, there are better options that us at Crypto Play Radio Discord are reviewing.

If you want to come and have a chat there, we can offer something much better than Leonardo/Margin now that Jonathan has essentially stuck the middle finger up to the sales contract he entered into with his customers when selling lifetime licenses for Leonardo.

Our link for Discord is below. Just talk to Yopilax, Konsequence, Boberino or anyone else in the LIVE CHAT and radio_text channels and we will get some alternatives for you that you will be pleased with.  Be patient as we do sometimes sleep and stay in channel :-P  You will get a response when we wake.

Crypto Play Radio Discord https://discord.gg/7VPvgrm

Please... Stop complaining in this thread, it's been going long enough. I've been in the software industry longer than most of you, so I can say I've seen fair share of what happened over the recent history. Not everything is fair in this world and when there are differences in arguments between two parties, PLEASE look at them from both side's perspectives. Hopefully it will be easier to understand the conflicting situation after that.

How do you know if there are better options than this FOR ME? I would think I'd know how to evaluate products that suit me. And I have looked at more than a few now. You are just declaring a war against them and trying to scrape existing customers away from them. I don't like that strategy. If you don't like software or their support, fine I can respect that. But please don't go any further than that.

I like supporting local economy for consumables. Similarly, I like supporting small startups started by younger people with ideas, passion and drives, even if they make mistakes.

That's my 2c.

[ewibit]

Suggestion, Don't rebrand and keep your lifetime customers happy and only charge new customers the subscription model,

+1

hope so too

[leonArdo@margin]

Jonathan, I currently own a license just for Bittrex. The idea was to test on Bittrex first then see what happens.

Now, I need Binance support as well quite badly. But I'm not quite sure what is the right direction right now since you are in the middle of switching the platform. Does it make sense to get a license for Leonardo on Binance right now or should I wait? My intention is to try out the new subscription model as well but I would need both Bittrex and Binance support.

Thank you.

If you want to switch to binance to try it out just contact us at support@marginsoftare.de

Edit Opps, there is a typo in the mail address: support@marginsoftware.de

Basically, if after the free period of margin ends you think you will revert to leonArdo then it makes sense to purchase an add on exchange.

If you think you will stick with margin then you will get access to all exchanges once we switch.

Best wishes,
Jonathan

[Rapturoso]

Please... Stop complaining in this thread, it's been going long enough. I've been in the software industry longer than most of you, so I can say I've seen fair share of what happened over the recent history. Not everything is fair in this world and when there are differences in arguments between two parties, PLEASE look at them from both side's perspectives. Hopefully it will be easier to understand the conflicting situation after that.

How do you know if there are better options than this FOR ME? I would think I'd know how to evaluate products that suit me. And I have looked at more than a few now. You are just declaring a war against them and trying to scrape existing customers away from them. I don't like that strategy. If you don't like software or their support, fine I can respect that. But please don't go any further than that.

I like supporting local economy for consumables. Similarly, I like supporting small startups started by younger people with ideas, passion and drives, even if they make mistakes.

That's my 2c.

I don't know if there are better options for you and I never promised I could offer you that over at Crypto Play Radio,  it's just a suggestion and I said our members were looking into viable alternatives.  Also we do not have a product to lure people away from Margin Software with.  All we talk about in the Discord is crypto and anything new on the scene.  This bait and switch that Margin Software have done with Leonardo has become a hot topic because of the controversial nature of shafting lifetime customers and knocking them down to actually owning nothing of worth, even after purchasing the promised lifetime 7 exchange access package. What's the good of having 7 exchanges for lifetime access if the access doesn't work, if they break or don't work for any reason like API changes? It's made our purchase pointless.

If on the other hand you would actually like to chat about anything crypto related, our Discord is filled with people with all different views of course. Hope to see you there  :-)

Crypto Play Radio Discord https://discord.gg/7VPvgrm

[blokHed]

The current version works with OSX 10.11, but not 10.9.5.
Is there a working version for 10.9.5? What are minimum system requirements?

[yhbae]

Please... Stop complaining in this thread, it's been going long enough. I've been in the software industry longer than most of you, so I can say I've seen fair share of what happened over the recent history. Not everything is fair in this world and when there are differences in arguments between two parties, PLEASE look at them from both side's perspectives. Hopefully it will be easier to understand the conflicting situation after that.

How do you know if there are better options than this FOR ME? I would think I'd know how to evaluate products that suit me. And I have looked at more than a few now. You are just declaring a war against them and trying to scrape existing customers away from them. I don't like that strategy. If you don't like software or their support, fine I can respect that. But please don't go any further than that.

I like supporting local economy for consumables. Similarly, I like supporting small startups started by younger people with ideas, passion and drives, even if they make mistakes.

That's my 2c.

I don't know if there are better options for you and I never promised I could offer you that over at Crypto Play Radio,  it's just a suggestion and I said our members were looking into viable alternatives.  Also we do not have a product to lure people away from Margin Software with.  All we talk about in the Discord is crypto and anything new on the scene.  This bait and switch that Margin Software have done with Leonardo has become a hot topic because of the controversial nature of shafting lifetime customers and knocking them down to actually owning nothing of worth, even after purchasing the promised lifetime 7 exchange access package. What's the good of having 7 exchanges for lifetime access if the access doesn't work, if they break or don't work for any reason like API changes? It's made our purchase pointless.

If on the other hand you would actually like to chat about anything crypto related, our Discord is filled with people with all different views of course. Hope to see you there  :-)

Fine, that sounds reasonable. I may check it out. Thanks.

I too have purchased Leonardo with the understanding that it would come with a lifetime support. But situations change. That model would not have allowed them to survive which means lifetime support is meaningless. So they have come up with an alternative pricing plan, but with some perks for existing customers. I'm fine with that. It's pretty harsh to call that a 'bait and switch'.

[Rapturoso]

Fine, that sounds reasonable. I may check it out. Thanks.

I too have purchased Leonardo with the understanding that it would come with a lifetime support. But situations change. That model would not have allowed them to survive which means lifetime support is meaningless. So they have come up with an alternative pricing plan, but with some perks for existing customers. I'm fine with that. It's pretty harsh to call that a 'bait and switch'.

I don't believe it's harsh at all.  That's exactly what it is!  Should Jonathan have honored the lifetime customers and just started charging new customers the subscription model, this would have served his business just as well.  Now he has just alienated a lot of his loyal 'beta testers', eh-hem, "Hero" customers, just so that they can do all the hard work of experiencing glitches, bugs and inadequacies, lose money on trades stuck whilst Leonardo crashes and then shaft them for the effort of reporting all those things so that he can fix them for a subscription model rebrand. It's a clear bait and switch.

Crypto Play Radio Discord https://discord.gg/7VPvgrm

[leonArdo@margin]

The current version works with OSX 10.11, but not 10.9.5.
Is there a working version for 10.9.5? What are minimum system requirements?

I think the min version is 10.10 (Yosimite), but I'll have to check this...

[leonArdo@margin]

Fine, that sounds reasonable. I may check it out. Thanks.

I too have purchased Leonardo with the understanding that it would come with a lifetime support. But situations change. That model would not have allowed them to survive which means lifetime support is meaningless. So they have come up with an alternative pricing plan, but with some perks for existing customers. I'm fine with that. It's pretty harsh to call that a 'bait and switch'.

I don't believe it's harsh at all.  That's exactly what it is!  Should Jonathan have honored the lifetime customers and just started charging new customers the subscription model, this would have served his business just as well.  Now he has just alienated a lot of his loyal 'beta testers', eh-hem, "Hero" customers, just so that they can do all the hard work of experiencing glitches, bugs and inadequacies, lose money on trades stuck whilst Leonardo crashes and then shaft them for the effort of reporting all those things so that he can fix them for a subscription model rebrand. It's a clear bait and switch.

Bullcrap.

Enough of your time wasting Rapturoso.

Jonathan

PS You know that when Windows went from '95 to version '98 people had to pay for it, right?

[Rapturoso]

Fine, that sounds reasonable. I may check it out. Thanks.

I too have purchased Leonardo with the understanding that it would come with a lifetime support. But situations change. That model would not have allowed them to survive which means lifetime support is meaningless. So they have come up with an alternative pricing plan, but with some perks for existing customers. I'm fine with that. It's pretty harsh to call that a 'bait and switch'.

I don't believe it's harsh at all.  That's exactly what it is!  Should Jonathan have honored the lifetime customers and just started charging new customers the subscription model, this would have served his business just as well.  Now he has just alienated a lot of his loyal 'beta testers', eh-hem, "Hero" customers, just so that they can do all the hard work of experiencing glitches, bugs and inadequacies, lose money on trades stuck whilst Leonardo crashes and then shaft them for the effort of reporting all those things so that he can fix them for a subscription model rebrand. It's a clear bait and switch.

Bullcrap.

Enough of your time wasting Rapturoso.

Jonathan

Wow, Aggressive!  I guess the truth really does hurt!  Now I can see that you do not treat your customers with the professional courtesy that any reputable company should.

Who would want to do business with you and buy into your bait and switch subscriptions if you're going to disrespectfully treat your customers this way? Your attitude here has dictated what will happen to your company next.  It doesn't look promising.

Crypto Play Radio Discord https://discord.gg/7VPvgrm

[Rapturoso]

You say I've have had updates for the best part of 2 years. How is May 2017 2 years since my lifetime purchase? I think your maths is just a little bit skewed there.

Get my maths right? You get another year FREE on margin.

Are you the same person that posted this earlier today?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3082921.msg31821348#msg31821348

I purchased it long ago and have never once looked back.  

Oh, and this

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3082921.msg31816095#msg31816095

I have also used this trading terminal successfully since last year and I have never experienced any inadequacies.  The interface is amazing and simple enough to manage many exchanges and see at a glance where you are with any trade, current or historic. It is simply good at what it does and now very stable after plenty of improvements and optimisations.

Or did someone hack your account?

Yes, get your maths right.  I was referring to Leonardo which I have had for less than 10 months and now you say it's going to rebrand and no longer receive even the most basic API updates to keep it in line with Lifetime Access to 7 exchanges (and any API changes they make) that you advertised at the time of purchase.  I'm not interested in your rebranded product as this isn't what I purchased and I was not referring to anything related to it what so ever, so yes, get your maths right, 10 months of Leonardo Lifetime 7 exchange access, not 2 years!

I did purchase long ago and never look back.  I had faith that you would address the issues with Leonardo running on Windows and with large page support that I reported which prevented me from using it on my machines for MONTHS.  I attempted to use it in Linux but because that is not the OS I was using, nor interested in running Leonardo on, I waited for the fixes.  I could see that Leonardo was a promising product and stable on other operating systems, hence the praise for your product.  On this basis I posted in the other thread before seeing your diabolical bait and switch announcement.   I even went so far as declining your offer of a refund based on the difficulties I described to you personally in email about Windows and Leonardo crashing regularly after using 1GB of memory and also the large pages in memory issue where Leonardo would refuse to run at all.  I kept the product believing that I was safe in the thought that I would eventually be able to use your product on which I had lifetime access to 7 exchanges.

You say am I the same person?  Sure as hell I am!  Just because I praise your product before discovering the underhanded product rebrand as an excuse to milk your already paid lifetime customers, doesn't mean I don't have a valid observation that your bait and switch is disgusting.

Crypto Play Radio Discord https://discord.gg/7VPvgrm

[yhbae]

Jonathan, I currently own a license just for Bittrex. The idea was to test on Bittrex first then see what happens.

Now, I need Binance support as well quite badly. But I'm not quite sure what is the right direction right now since you are in the middle of switching the platform. Does it make sense to get a license for Leonardo on Binance right now or should I wait? My intention is to try out the new subscription model as well but I would need both Bittrex and Binance support.

Thank you.

If you want to switch to binance to try it out just contact us at support@marginsoftare.de

Basically, if after the free period of margin ends you think you will revert to leonArdo then it makes sense to purchase an add on exchange.

If you think you will stick with margin then you will get access to all exchanges once we switch.

Best wishes,
Jonathan

Jonathan, perhaps your e-mail server is down? I tried sending it but it bounced back.

[dbolivar]

Wow, Aggressive!  I guess the truth really does hurt!  Now I can see that you do not treat your customers with the professional courtesy that any reputable company should.

Who would want to do business with you and buy into your bait and switch subscriptions if you're going to disrespectfully treat your customers this way? Your attitude here has dictated what will happen to your company next.  It doesn't look promising.

"Your customers" => no, just you, because this is becoming trolling from your part. If you read this thread you'll see that they are nice, honest and fair with most of the customers. I don't have anything to gain personally by defending Margin, but I believe in fairness: if a business behaves badly, I always complain (but don't troll like yourself); however, if it has a record of good practices, I'll also stand to defend them. This subject of the business model change has been discussed to the exhaustion now.

What's tricky about trolling is that people feel compelled to reply, but it just serves its purpose. Maybe I also contributed with this reply, but thought it was important given the strong words you're using, and don't plan to continue replying anyway.

[ofnadave]

The current version works with OSX 10.11, but not 10.9.5.
Is there a working version for 10.9.5? What are minimum system requirements?

Bittrex worked fine with Mac OSX 10.10.5 . . . .  But, I have BOT crashes(stops) with Binance.  They still need to debug Leonardo 3.8.0.

[Rapturoso]

Wow, Aggressive!  I guess the truth really does hurt!  Now I can see that you do not treat your customers with the professional courtesy that any reputable company should.

Who would want to do business with you and buy into your bait and switch subscriptions if you're going to disrespectfully treat your customers this way? Your attitude here has dictated what will happen to your company next.  It doesn't look promising.

"Your customers" => no, just you, because this is becoming trolling from your part. If you read this thread you'll see that they are nice, honest and fair with most of the customers. I don't have anything to gain personally by defending Margin, but I believe in fairness: if a business behaves badly, I always complain (but don't troll like yourself); however, if it has a record of good practices, I'll also stand to defend them. This subject of the business model change has been discussed to the exhaustion now.

What's tricky about trolling is that people feel compelled to reply, but it just serves its purpose. Maybe I also contributed with this reply, but thought it was important given the strong words you're using, and don't plan to continue replying anyway.

That's ok.  Everyone is entitled to use their observational skills as they see fit.  This however doesn't change that fact that Margin have made a bad call for existing customers.

It's absolutely fine to change a business model to generate more income from future prospective customers but not:

at the detriment of existing paid up customers.

building a customer base on the promise that they can access 7 exchanges for a lifetime and then removing that purchase without any form of compensation that will put the customer in exactly the same position as they were before the bait and switch announcement.

refusing to maintain the current software and instead asking them to pay (even a reduced rate) for subscription for a product they have already purchased as a lifetime product that's been renamed to make it look like a new product.

making a product name redundant but then providing the exact same functionality with a product that just has a new name but is functionally identical to the product that is supposedly made redundant and has already been purchased in a lifetime package.

It's immoral an unethical no matter how you look at it.  One can't make something redundant if it still exists in it's same practical capacity with just a different name.  That's just daylight robbery.

I'm not trolling here. I'm just presenting the facts and it stands to reason that existing customers should get exactly what they paid for, lifetime access to 7 exchanges through Leonardo which dictates that Leonardo must be maintained to accommodate APIs on exchanges when they change, otherwise how can this be described as Leonardo access to 7 exchanges for life if that access is broken?  This is not a troll.  This is a serious question that still has not been answered to anyone's satisfaction. Jonathan seems to just stick his middle finger up to anyone who challenges him with a valid complaint about this terminology and his word play.  Will you do the same ?

Crypto Play Radio Discord https://discord.gg/7VPvgrm

[CTShaman]

I took this ongoing tirade as a personal affront. The moderator has been notified.