margin terminal is now FREE - bots for over 30 exchanges

[naska21]

You can keep the product you bought for life.

sure we can keep it on our HDD for life. Will leonardo is going to further   function   as it does at the moment?   Please, specify this for us.

[1714256900]

1714256900

[1714256900]

1714256900

[1714256900]

1714256900

[yaz]

And for anyone saying this is out of the blue, we even indicated a change of business model in December

Well it sure is out of the blue for me.

I just bought 3 weeks ago.  Is a prospective customer seriously supposed to read through a 198 page thread to find that nugget before purchasing to find out they are bait and switched?  I just read it now and find out I paid almost double to most everyone else.  There was absolutely nothing on the website.  I purchased a 'perpetual' license with a website full of plans for the future.

This really feels like a kick in the gut.

I demo'd the product for a while before purchasing.  Found it was a little buggy, crashed daily, but it looked like it had an interesting future and had a committed developer.  There was talk about upgrades with a strategy editor, back testing and support for decentralized exchanges.  All things I wanted, so I figured I'd support the effort and wait to see what emerged.  When I purchased the product I emailed asking about the timeline of these features and was told "We try and push a release every 3-5 week with new features".  Support helped me learn the undocumented right click on the knight to save your strategies so they don't all disappear when it crashes.

I'd been on cryptotrader where the greedy folks there saw me as an annuity rather than a customer, so this was a refreshing change. 

And now three weeks later I discover that all marketing should be untrusted. There will be no more releases, no strategy editor, no decentralized exchanges, and I blew a bunch of money on abandoned software.  They probably won't even fix the bloody tooltips that don't fit in the popups.

Microsoft gives 10 years notice when they are going to discontinue a product.  Here we're told - hey that single update you had, that's it...  ...sucker.

[leonArdo@margin]

And for anyone saying this is out of the blue, we even indicated a change of business model in December

Well it sure is out of the blue for me.

I just bought 3 weeks ago.  Is a prospective customer seriously supposed to read through a 198 page thread to find that nugget before purchasing to find out they are bait and switched?  I just read it now and find out I paid almost double to most everyone else.  There was absolutely nothing on the website.  I purchased a 'perpetual' license with a website full of plans for the future.

This really feels like a kick in the gut.

I demo'd the product for a while before purchasing.  Found it was a little buggy, crashed daily, but it looked like it had an interesting future and had a committed developer.  There was talk about upgrades with a strategy editor, back testing and support for decentralized exchanges.  All things I wanted, so I figured I'd support the effort and wait to see what emerged.  When I purchased the product I emailed asking about the timeline of these features and was told "We try and push a release every 3-5 week with new features".  Support helped me learn the undocumented right click on the knight to save your strategies so they don't all disappear when it crashes.

I'd been on cryptotrader where the greedy folks there saw me as an annuity rather than a customer, so this was a refreshing change. 

And now three weeks later I discover that all marketing should be untrusted. There will be no more releases, no strategy editor, no decentralized exchanges, and I blew a bunch of money on abandoned software.  They probably won't even fix the bloody tooltips that don't fit in the popups.

Microsoft gives 10 years notice when they are going to discontinue a product.  Here we're told - hey that single update you had, that's it...  ...sucker.

Are you really suggesting a very small startup can give 10 years notice for anything? We are not Microsoft.

And now three weeks later I discover that all marketing should be untrusted. There will be no more releases, no strategy editor, no decentralized exchanges, and I blew a bunch of money on abandoned software.  They probably won't even fix the bloody tooltips that don't fit in the popups.

What marketing exactly? Where did we say that there would be lifetime updates?

Depending on what you bought you get either 6 months or a year free on the new product. You also get to keep what you bought for life.

We didn't mislead anyone.

I am sorry you are disappointed, and once more at the risk of sounding like a broken record - we had to do this. Otherwise there would not be updates either as we wouldn't be able to survive as a company.

Jonathan

[leonArdo@margin]

You can keep the product you bought for life.

sure we can keep it on our HDD for life. Will leonardo is going to further   function   as it does at the moment?   Please, specify this for us.

leonArdo will not be developed more. There will be limited support for new key additions and some final bug fixes, but that's all I'm afraid. Given our limited resources we cannot support two codebases. It is just not possible.

Best wishes,
Jonathan

[leonArdo@margin]

Disappointing as it may sound, im sure you guys had to make a hard decision for sustainability.

I just wish you gave us early adopters a better deal moving forward though because I see the new plans to be too restrictive. for most of us at entry level than 3k USD limit is limiting and will heavily depend on BTC to USD value which can swing massively up (preferrably) or down few times within a year.. i mean it's crazy to have to deal with this USD value cap. I mean the free trial and discount is great but perhaps extend that a bit for us small-fry early adopters? say free stage upgrade from starter to standard, that would be reasonable and i'd personally be on board. Standard to Pro offers i believe is fine as it is coz people dealing with that amount of money can definitely afford your subscription fees no problem.


I do wonder about this line though:
"Catastrophic events like what happened in mid January, where a lot of cryptos lost up to 70% of their value, have a huge effect on our revenue."

How did the massive correction affect your revenue when your software isn't taking any % from trades anyway?


Anyway more power to you guys.

Hi BrownChiLD,

Thanks for your good wishes.

As to your question. When the crash came in January it badly affected our revenue as for obvious reasons people are less likely to purchase a trading terminal if they just lost a lot of money. We are a real company and have to find the funds to pay salaries at the end of each month. We also want to hire new people to quicken the pace of new features. Sticking to the old model just would not work. It was always an introductory early adopter model. To survive this change was absolutely necessary.

Best wishes,
Jonathan

[TOPBILL]

You can keep the product you bought for life.

sure we can keep it on our HDD for life. Will leonardo is going to further   function   as it does at the moment?   Please, specify this for us.

leonArdo will not be developed more. There will be limited support for new key additions and some final bug fixes, but that's all I'm afraid. Given our limited resources we cannot support two codebases. It is just not possible.

Best wishes,
Jonathan

If you want to abandon ship on a product you're still selling and switch to an almost identical product. You'll need to wave the subscription fees to existing customers that paid for your "World class support" and lifetime licenses.

You're making it clear you have no intention on honoring your so-called "World class support" and your lifetime license is now worthless.

[leonArdo@margin]

You can keep the product you bought for life.

sure we can keep it on our HDD for life. Will leonardo is going to further   function   as it does at the moment?   Please, specify this for us.

leonArdo will not be developed more. There will be limited support for new key additions and some final bug fixes, but that's all I'm afraid. Given our limited resources we cannot support two codebases. It is just not possible.

Best wishes,
Jonathan

If you want to abandon ship on a product you're still selling and switch to an almost identical product. You'll need to wave the subscription fees to existing customers that paid for your "World class support" and lifetime licenses.

You're making it clear you have no intention on honoring your so-called "World class support" and your lifetime license is now worthless.

What particular part of "We never promised lifetime updates" or "We have no choice but to take this step" do you not understand?

[Ghostkai]

Why does bollinger do this?  In the 3 circles are the sell, the buy, and where it should have bought. It sold at 558 sat and should have bought in at 552sat from where the band was, but bought in at 556sat. Why did it do this? Also forgot to mention, I had the buy signal at -25 not -10 as it is on the screen. I changed it after I took the screen. But still wasn't close to 556sat.
https://imgur.com/a/UDI2u

[CTShaman]

Edit: Before we get to a strategy editor we will add a trend watcher as a general feature to spot order bots like the Bollinger Band bot to help ensure that the bot does not buy or sell when the market is trending

Hey, that sounds interesting. Can you share some details on how it will operate?

We are working on it, but the idea is to check whether the market is trending - to do that will involve combining some well known indicators - and if a trending market is detected, the bot will wait until the trend ends and only then buy or sell.

Best wishes,
Jonathan

I woke up to a whole lot of want for something like that, ICX, LTC, TRX and VEN were "trending" -in the wrong direction.

Perhaps one of the indicators might be volume based as well, I do not tend garden as well as I should and sometimes pairs loose mindshare and I end up whaling at someone else's party, I would rather not.

[Amaralluis]

Why does bollinger do this?  In the 3 circles are the sell, the buy, and where it should have bought. It sold at 558 sat and should have bought in at 552sat from where the band was, but bought in at 556sat. Why did it do this? Also forgot to mention, I had the buy signal at -25 not -10 as it is on the screen. I changed it after I took the screen. But still wasn't close to 556sat.

The reason for that is that the BOT uses the current candle to determine the trigger signal.
Basically you have set up your bot for 22 candles, the bot will use the closing price of the previous 21 candles the price of the current candle to determine the price trigger.
So what happens is that at some point during that candle cycle the price average of the previous 21 candles plus the current candle triggered the buy price.
Also another factor to consider is the volatility... it could also be that by the time the bot sends the buy signal to the exchange the price has already changed meaning that the bot could have sent a buy signal to the exchange when the price was close to the buy band but when the exchange executed it the price had climbed to where the buy price took place. (look at the long wick).

[Alexprorbp]

Hey guys,

Thanks to G B and Alex for pointing this out. Some people are having issues with Binance that may require a system clock re-sync.

1. Right click on the time in the task bar and select "Adjust date/time". In the window that appears, make sure "Set time automatically" is on.

http://www.marginsoftware.de/forum-images/Resync-1.jpg

2. In the same window, click on "Additional date, time & regional settings", then under "Date and Time" go to "Set the time and date". In the "Internet Time" tab, click "Change settings...", then make sure "Synchronize with an Internet time server" is selected and click "Update now", then "OK".

http://www.marginsoftware.de/forum-images/Resync-2.jpg

3. Next, run services.msc via the Start menu, then right click on "Windows Time" in the list of services and select "Properties". Make sure "Startup type" is set to "Automatic" and that the service is started right now. Click the "Start" button if the service status is "Stopped" right now.

http://www.marginsoftware.de/forum-images/Resync-3.jpg

4. If all else fails, start a PowerShell as administrator and run the following lines:

Code:

net stop w32time

w32tm /unregister

w32tm /register

net start w32time

w32tm /resync

Best wishes,
Christian

Thanks alot Binance back to working it was a big problem but now is working  super beast mode bot i wish you guys never stop doing your job thanks for your kind guys good day Alex!

[yhbae]

Guys, majority of software developers are switching to the subscription model. I don't know anyone who switched are giving away unlimited subscription to existing customers.

It happened to me couple of times as well and in some cases I chose to stay, in others I left for other products. Adobe, Microsoft and others I relied on didn't warn me in advance before introducing the new model. It was either take it or leave it (or just continue to use soon to be unsupported Desktop version).

In reality, most startups cannot survive with financial models like the one Margin was using. If they were charging maintenance fee each year, that's a whole other story but they weren't. I only bought this app a week ago and yes I am somewhat disappointed but I am being realistic.

I'd rather see them switch to a model where they can survive and see good progress down the road.

My 2c.

[jproxer]

Hello to everyone,

can please share a Bollinger Bot strategy tutorial or any documentation?

TIA!

[Dasani]

Hey guys, I went through some of the pages.. and could not find the answer to the issue I am having. (I thought I fixed it, but looks like not fully fixed it)

I am trading on Binance and here what I get:

Code:

02/27 06:39:52 pm binance:bot:BCPT/BTC: [strategy-9] waiting for recovery finished. Transitioning back 
02/27 06:39:52 pm binance:bot:BCPT/BTC: [strategy-9] transition to "replacing order"
02/27 06:39:53 pm binance:bot:BCPT/BTC: [strategy-9] transition to "creating sell order"
02/27 06:39:54 pm binance:bot:BCPT/BTC: [strategy-9] placing order sell 30 BCPT @0.00014959 BTC
02/27 06:39:54 pm binance:bot:BCPT/BTC: [strategy-9] transition to "waiting for order to be placed"
02/27 06:39:54 pm binance:BCPT/BTC: [Method:place_order (params: symbol=BCPTBTC&side=SELL&type=LIMIT&timeInForce=GTC&quantity=30&price=0.00014959) ] error in DefaultMarketInterface::httpPOST: network error: [http code: 400(Bad Request)]: ProtocolInvalidOperation (the requested operation is invalid for this protocol) (try 1 of 10), message received: {"code":-2010,"msg":"Account has insufficient balance for requested action."}
02/27 06:39:54 pm binance:BCPT/BTC: Successfully handled httpPost error: recovered document: -{
  "code" : -2010,
  "msg" : "Account has insufficient balance for requested action."
}
-
02/27 06:39:54 pm binance:BCPT/BTC: order could not be placed (error while requesting place_order: Message: "Account has insufficient balance for requested action." (Code: -2010))
02/27 06:39:55 pm binance:bot:BCPT/BTC: [strategy-9] an exception occured while the bot was running :'order could not be placed'
02/27 06:39:55 pm binance:bot:BCPT/BTC: [strategy-9] error recovery mode for [placing-failed] active: will try to recover 5 minutes ...
02/27 06:39:55 pm binance:bot:BCPT/BTC: [strategy-9] transition to "error occurred waiting for reinitialization"

I was getting this error first on all pairs when I had Using BNB to pay for fees On, but I switched it off and then it seems to work fine, but then BNBBTC kinda got stuck on  placing the sale order and then from there I started to get this error message again. Please advice, why is this happening?

I have Using BNB to pay for fees is off now, nut still getting this error on some pairs, some not... which does not make any scene to me. I really love this software, but I spent almost 8 hours, trying to figure out how to fix problems, which I wasn't aware before purchasing... 

[semirealdude]

Edit: As a leonArdo customer you will also be entitled to a 50% discount on all future margin terminal subscription payments. The offer will kick in if you sign up for a subscription within a month of your free period ending.

Too bad we couldn't stay on with free lifetime subscription and only charge subscription fees to new customers, but I understand the subscription fee might become inaccessible in that case. I'm not unhappy with $15/mo for the standard plan (with discount), I just hope it doesn't go up later.

Do we have to keep a continuous subscription for the 50% discount? Can I pay for one month subscription, take a 1 year break, and still pay the discounted rate when I come back?

[Dasani]

Hey guys, I went through some of the pages.. and could not find the answer to the issue I am having. (I thought I fixed it, but looks like not fully fixed it)

I am trading on Binance and here what I get:

Code:

02/27 06:39:52 pm binance:bot:BCPT/BTC: [strategy-9] waiting for recovery finished. Transitioning back 
02/27 06:39:52 pm binance:bot:BCPT/BTC: [strategy-9] transition to "replacing order"
02/27 06:39:53 pm binance:bot:BCPT/BTC: [strategy-9] transition to "creating sell order"
02/27 06:39:54 pm binance:bot:BCPT/BTC: [strategy-9] placing order sell 30 BCPT @0.00014959 BTC
02/27 06:39:54 pm binance:bot:BCPT/BTC: [strategy-9] transition to "waiting for order to be placed"
02/27 06:39:54 pm binance:BCPT/BTC: [Method:place_order (params: symbol=BCPTBTC&side=SELL&type=LIMIT&timeInForce=GTC&quantity=30&price=0.00014959) ] error in DefaultMarketInterface::httpPOST: network error: [http code: 400(Bad Request)]: ProtocolInvalidOperation (the requested operation is invalid for this protocol) (try 1 of 10), message received: {"code":-2010,"msg":"Account has insufficient balance for requested action."}
02/27 06:39:54 pm binance:BCPT/BTC: Successfully handled httpPost error: recovered document: -{
  "code" : -2010,
  "msg" : "Account has insufficient balance for requested action."
}
-
02/27 06:39:54 pm binance:BCPT/BTC: order could not be placed (error while requesting place_order: Message: "Account has insufficient balance for requested action." (Code: -2010))
02/27 06:39:55 pm binance:bot:BCPT/BTC: [strategy-9] an exception occured while the bot was running :'order could not be placed'
02/27 06:39:55 pm binance:bot:BCPT/BTC: [strategy-9] error recovery mode for [placing-failed] active: will try to recover 5 minutes ...
02/27 06:39:55 pm binance:bot:BCPT/BTC: [strategy-9] transition to "error occurred waiting for reinitialization"

I was getting this error first on all pairs when I had Using BNB to pay for fees On, but I switched it off and then it seems to work fine, but then BNBBTC kinda got stuck on  placing the sale order and then from there I started to get this error message again. Please advice, why is this happening?

I have Using BNB to pay for fees is off now, nut still getting this error on some pairs, some not... which does not make any scene to me. I really love this software, but I spent almost 8 hours, trying to figure out how to fix problems, which I wasn't aware before purchasing... 

I guess... I will answer that question myself... so in order to trade without any issues on binance, you will have to purchase some bnb and do not trade bnb/btc pair (if anyone trading on bnbbtc, please let me know if it goes fine, beacause I really like this pair).

[CTShaman]

Hey guys, I went through some of the pages.. and could not find the answer to the issue I am having. (I thought I fixed it, but looks like not fully fixed it)

I am trading on Binance and here what I get:

Code:

02/27 06:39:52 pm binance:bot:BCPT/BTC: [strategy-9] waiting for recovery finished. Transitioning back 
02/27 06:39:52 pm binance:bot:BCPT/BTC: [strategy-9] transition to "replacing order"
02/27 06:39:53 pm binance:bot:BCPT/BTC: [strategy-9] transition to "creating sell order"
02/27 06:39:54 pm binance:bot:BCPT/BTC: [strategy-9] placing order sell 30 BCPT @0.00014959 BTC
02/27 06:39:54 pm binance:bot:BCPT/BTC: [strategy-9] transition to "waiting for order to be placed"
02/27 06:39:54 pm binance:BCPT/BTC: [Method:place_order (params: symbol=BCPTBTC&side=SELL&type=LIMIT&timeInForce=GTC&quantity=30&price=0.00014959) ] error in DefaultMarketInterface::httpPOST: network error: [http code: 400(Bad Request)]: ProtocolInvalidOperation (the requested operation is invalid for this protocol) (try 1 of 10), message received: {"code":-2010,"msg":"Account has insufficient balance for requested action."}
02/27 06:39:54 pm binance:BCPT/BTC: Successfully handled httpPost error: recovered document: -{
  "code" : -2010,
  "msg" : "Account has insufficient balance for requested action."
}
-
02/27 06:39:54 pm binance:BCPT/BTC: order could not be placed (error while requesting place_order: Message: "Account has insufficient balance for requested action." (Code: -2010))
02/27 06:39:55 pm binance:bot:BCPT/BTC: [strategy-9] an exception occured while the bot was running :'order could not be placed'
02/27 06:39:55 pm binance:bot:BCPT/BTC: [strategy-9] error recovery mode for [placing-failed] active: will try to recover 5 minutes ...
02/27 06:39:55 pm binance:bot:BCPT/BTC: [strategy-9] transition to "error occurred waiting for reinitialization"

I was getting this error first on all pairs when I had Using BNB to pay for fees On, but I switched it off and then it seems to work fine, but then BNBBTC kinda got stuck on  placing the sale order and then from there I started to get this error message again. Please advice, why is this happening?

I have Using BNB to pay for fees is off now, nut still getting this error on some pairs, some not... which does not make any scene to me. I really love this software, but I spent almost 8 hours, trying to figure out how to fix problems, which I wasn't aware before purchasing...  

Ugg, sounds like one for support. Send them the log and a screenshot. support@marginsoftware.de

I have been trading that pair all day with 3 bots and BNB turned on (I am also trading BNB).

First of all make sure you have enough BNB to cover the transaction fee, secondly never trade with all your BNB it may not be there when you need it and mess with everything. Mine looks like this 4 of those BNB are in reserve.


Ahh! See you figured it out! 

[naska21]

Guys, majority of software developers are switching to the subscription model. I don't know anyone who switched are giving away unlimited subscription to existing customers.

I do not think you are correct. Majority of soft is under lifetime licence. Even Microsoft. The subscribtion model is used largely by  those who need to add changes on every day bases, like antivirus products, where virus signuatures must be updated day-by-day. Leonardo is not such kind of product. It is just good terminal for traders  , nothing more, as modern bots available on market  are using AI and far ahead of Leonardo's bots

I would suggest to leave lifetime licence but increase the price for one instance (market) , say by 10 times for new customers and/or new instances( market/s) for old customers

[gnoe]

I am disappointed with this announcement.

Leonardo/Margin will not fit my needs anymore as a very small investor.
Its a shame I really liked it and will continue using Leonardo until it stops working altogether.

Same. This totally feels like a bait and switch. Extremely disappointing especially considering that the plan offered to "hero" customers seems like an afterthought.

This is a joke right?

We listen to our customers and then make an offer and you also don't like that!!

If you want to charge NEW customers more money, or per month I see nothing wrong with that.

You're existing customers paid up front for your Lifetime Licence with free updates.  They should not be subject to ANY switch and bait subscription fees tacked in after the sale.

When we paid up front for your "Lifetime License with free upgrades" we didn't agree to any additional charges that amount to $180 PER YEAR (with major restrictions in use), $348 PER YEAR (with restricted use) or $2,388 PER YEAR (unrestricted).

All Subscription fees should be PERMANENTLY waived for pre-existing customers that already paid for their Lifetime License fees. If you want to adopt a new pricing. Then it should ONLY be for future customers that didn't already pay for their lifetime license agreement.

Otherwise, If you can't honor your side of our legally binding contract. I would like a 100% refund without question.

You are absolutely right on your comment TOPBILL !!

Imagine those idiots who bought Ultra-lifetime license just a few weeks ago.
I'm one of them.

Some of us, also bought equipment to run leoNardo, like pc, raspbery etc

But don't worry, Mr Jonathan says we can keep leoNardo for life...without exchanges API updates or any kind of support.

...and use it for what ? Trading with my dog ?

Maybe all this time, we were beta testers for the new margin software. Not paid but paying beta testers.

I'm buying software and scripts more than 20 years, never saw such a business tactic before for already customers.

[leonArdo@margin]

I am disappointed with this announcement.

Leonardo/Margin will not fit my needs anymore as a very small investor.
Its a shame I really liked it and will continue using Leonardo until it stops working altogether.

Same. This totally feels like a bait and switch. Extremely disappointing especially considering that the plan offered to "hero" customers seems like an afterthought.

This is a joke right?

We listen to our customers and then make an offer and you also don't like that!!

If you want to charge NEW customers more money, or per month I see nothing wrong with that.

You're existing customers paid up front for your Lifetime Licence with free updates.  They should not be subject to ANY switch and bait subscription fees tacked in after the sale.

When we paid up front for your "Lifetime License with free upgrades" we didn't agree to any additional charges that amount to $180 PER YEAR (with major restrictions in use), $348 PER YEAR (with restricted use) or $2,388 PER YEAR (unrestricted).

All Subscription fees should be PERMANENTLY waived for pre-existing customers that already paid for their Lifetime License fees. If you want to adopt a new pricing. Then it should ONLY be for future customers that didn't already pay for their lifetime license agreement.

Otherwise, If you can't honor your side of our legally binding contract. I would like a 100% refund without question.

You are absolutely right on your comment TOPBILL !!

Imagine those idiots who bought Ultra-lifetime license just a few weeks ago.
I'm one of them.

Some of us, also bought equipment to run leoNardo, like pc, raspbery etc

But don't worry, Mr Jonathan says we can keep leoNardo for life...without exchanges API updates or any kind of support.

...and use it for what ? Trading with my dog ?

Maybe all this time, we were beta testers for the new margin software. Not paid but paying beta testers.

I'm buying software and scripts more than 20 years, never saw such a business tactic before for already customers.

Support continues for leonArdo customers so I don't know what you are talking about there?

Which software did you buy 20 years ago that you continue to get updates for and haven't paid a penny for since? Would love to know!

Existing customers get a pretty good deal in our opinion.