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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3011300 times)
nightengale
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August 08, 2013, 12:27:04 PM
 #5281

There is a big difference between Sptember 1 and September 30... Maybe time for an update...?
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Bitcoinorama
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August 08, 2013, 12:35:41 PM
 #5282

They need to ship out before the network difficulty reach 120m.

Anyone know their refund policy in case of delay?



Refund policy is simple: "All sales are final!"

Let me ask it then?

I dont think it is FUD  Roll Eyes

Just massively ask for refunds, they must refund, EU rules !

EU rules say: If you did not recieve your product within 30 days you are lawfully entitled to get a refund!

It's FUD because they have a refund policy and the twit stating all sales are final is trolling.

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August 08, 2013, 12:36:32 PM
 #5283

EU rules say: If you did not recieve your product within 30 days you are lawfully entitled to get a refund!

30 days from what?
From order date.
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August 08, 2013, 12:38:15 PM
 #5284

A little off topic here. I just changed my home contents insurance company and it appears that items over a grand in value need to be declared separately, "attractive items" they call them. Apparently this falls into that category and if you don't tell them about it then it won't be covered.

It may be different for other companies, but it didn't occur to me at all until I was asked to list such things..so maybe worth checking.

BTC competitions? I like competitions and so do loads of my mates...never seen any except for the manufacturer raffles which I managed to miss Sad

There's whole subsections dedicated to raffles in this forum. This is an ASIC Vendor in a race to deliver their, and more importantly our equipment. I'd rather they focused on the task at hand, then Gen 2.

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August 08, 2013, 01:17:14 PM
 #5285

EU rules say: If you did not recieve your product within 30 days you are lawfully entitled to get a refund!

30 days from what?
From order date.

Which I believe is the case with KNC - they have said before that they will refund anyone unless they have started shipping your order Wink

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August 08, 2013, 01:23:31 PM
 #5286


Exactly, if they miss the deadline and you feel that you want a refund. They will give it to you.

They are the only company that is like this, where you can make your bet and have it basically risk free if they don't deliver by the date in your super duper excel mathematical genius bitcoin spreadsheet.

Just to point out, if they miss the deadline horribly and their competition doesn't, causing massive request for refunds, then there is the possibility of a bankrupt operation. Those NRE funds came from our pre-orders and are already at least partially spent. I'm not suggesting that this is going to happen, I just want to point out that there are situations where they don't deliver and people do not get refunds.

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August 08, 2013, 01:26:24 PM
 #5287


Exactly, if they miss the deadline and you feel that you want a refund. They will give it to you.

They are the only company that is like this, where you can make your bet and have it basically risk free if they don't deliver by the date in your super duper excel mathematical genius bitcoin spreadsheet.

Just to point out, if they miss the deadline horribly and their competition doesn't, causing massive request for refunds, then there is the possibility of a bankrupt operation. Those NRE funds came from our pre-orders and are already at least partially spent. I'm not suggesting that this is going to happen, I just want to point out that there are situations where they don't deliver and people do not get refunds.

Yes if they chose to pay by unprotected payment means.

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August 08, 2013, 01:37:56 PM
 #5288

EU rules say: If you did not recieve your product within 30 days you are lawfully entitled to get a refund!

30 days from what?
From order date.

Which I believe is the case with KNC - they have said before that they will refund anyone unless they have started shipping your order Wink

Have a look at their official terms and conditions at their website (one had to accept before one can finalize the order).

First they strictly treat you as a business customer:

"1.2   The Products are sold for business use only and Purchaser hereby accepts that it has purchased the Products in order to conduct a business."

As far as I know, business customers are not that well and comfortable protected by law as private persons are.

Second, there is no word about a refunding policy, as mentioned here (refunding possible until they ship). At least I didn't find it.
I know, that someone shared a KnC email he got, where they say it in that way. But is this binding?

In their terms and conditions is stated:

"8.2  Where delivery is delayed due to any of the circumstances constituting force majeure in accordance with 11 below or due to any act or omission by the Purchaser, the delivery period shall be extended by such a period as is reasonable in light of the circumstances.  The delivery period shall also be extended where the cause of the delay arises after the expiry of the originally agreed delivery period."

and in their definition "force majeure" is almost anything they can't control:

"11.1 KnCMiner is exempted from fulfilling its obligations under this Agreement and is entitled to cancel the Purchaser’s confirmed orders without any liability, in the event of force majeure such as strikes, floods and fires, wars, riots, interruptions in transport, shortage of material or energy sources affecting KnCMiner or its sub-suppliers, accidents or other occurrences which affects sub-suppliers’ production, bankruptcy or compulsory liquidation of a sub-supplier, accidents of any kind, governmental decisions which affects manufacturing or use of the Products and, in general, such events that were unforeseen at the time of the order which prevents or hinder manufacturing, transportation or delivery of the Products to the Purchaser."

No offence, but if "we refund everybody until we start shipping" is their official refunding policy, they should add this also to their official terms and conditions.
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August 08, 2013, 01:52:10 PM
 #5289

EU rules say: If you did not recieve your product within 30 days you are lawfully entitled to get a refund!

30 days from what?
From order date.

Which I believe is the case with KNC - they have said before that they will refund anyone unless they have started shipping your order Wink

Have a look at their official terms and conditions at their website (one had to accept before one can finalize the order).

First they strictly treat you as a business customer:

"1.2   The Products are sold for business use only and Purchaser hereby accepts that it has purchased the Products in order to conduct a business."

As far as I know, business customers are not that well and comfortable protected by law as private persons are.

Second, there is no word about a refunding policy, as mentioned here (refunding possible until they ship). At least I didn't find it.
I know, that someone shared a KnC email he got, where they say it in that way. But is this binding?

In their terms and conditions is stated:

"8.2  Where delivery is delayed due to any of the circumstances constituting force majeure in accordance with 11 below or due to any act or omission by the Purchaser, the delivery period shall be extended by such a period as is reasonable in light of the circumstances.  The delivery period shall also be extended where the cause of the delay arises after the expiry of the originally agreed delivery period."

and in their definition "force majeure" is almost anything they can't control:

"11.1 KnCMiner is exempted from fulfilling its obligations under this Agreement and is entitled to cancel the Purchaser’s confirmed orders without any liability, in the event of force majeure such as strikes, floods and fires, wars, riots, interruptions in transport, shortage of material or energy sources affecting KnCMiner or its sub-suppliers, accidents or other occurrences which affects sub-suppliers’ production, bankruptcy or compulsory liquidation of a sub-supplier, accidents of any kind, governmental decisions which affects manufacturing or use of the Products and, in general, such events that were unforeseen at the time of the order which prevents or hinder manufacturing, transportation or delivery of the Products to the Purchaser."

No offence, but if "we refund everybody until we start shipping" is their official refunding policy, they should add this also to their official terms and conditions.

EU Law applies to all companies who are located in the EU.
EU Law stands above KnCminers own company T&C ("rules")!
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August 08, 2013, 02:20:34 PM
 #5290

EU rules say: If you did not recieve your product within 30 days you are lawfully entitled to get a refund!

30 days from what?
From order date.

Which I believe is the case with KNC - they have said before that they will refund anyone unless they have started shipping your order Wink

Have a look at their official terms and conditions at their website (one had to accept before one can finalize the order).

First they strictly treat you as a business customer:

"1.2   The Products are sold for business use only and Purchaser hereby accepts that it has purchased the Products in order to conduct a business."

As far as I know, business customers are not that well and comfortable protected by law as private persons are.

Second, there is no word about a refunding policy, as mentioned here (refunding possible until they ship). At least I didn't find it.
I know, that someone shared a KnC email he got, where they say it in that way. But is this binding?

In their terms and conditions is stated:

"8.2  Where delivery is delayed due to any of the circumstances constituting force majeure in accordance with 11 below or due to any act or omission by the Purchaser, the delivery period shall be extended by such a period as is reasonable in light of the circumstances.  The delivery period shall also be extended where the cause of the delay arises after the expiry of the originally agreed delivery period."

and in their definition "force majeure" is almost anything they can't control:

"11.1 KnCMiner is exempted from fulfilling its obligations under this Agreement and is entitled to cancel the Purchaser’s confirmed orders without any liability, in the event of force majeure such as strikes, floods and fires, wars, riots, interruptions in transport, shortage of material or energy sources affecting KnCMiner or its sub-suppliers, accidents or other occurrences which affects sub-suppliers’ production, bankruptcy or compulsory liquidation of a sub-supplier, accidents of any kind, governmental decisions which affects manufacturing or use of the Products and, in general, such events that were unforeseen at the time of the order which prevents or hinder manufacturing, transportation or delivery of the Products to the Purchaser."

No offence, but if "we refund everybody until we start shipping" is their official refunding policy, they should add this also to their official terms and conditions.

EU Law applies to all companies who are located in the EU.
EU Law stands above KnCminers own company T&C ("rules")!

yep you're right, nonetheless if they fail in a bad way and everyone ask for a refund, bankruptcy is almost unavoidable

Bitcoin is a participatory system which ought to respect the right of self determinism of all of its users - Gregory Maxwell.
Bitcoinorama
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August 08, 2013, 02:25:52 PM
 #5291

EU rules say: If you did not recieve your product within 30 days you are lawfully entitled to get a refund!

30 days from what?
From order date.

Which I believe is the case with KNC - they have said before that they will refund anyone unless they have started shipping your order Wink

Have a look at their official terms and conditions at their website (one had to accept before one can finalize the order).

First they strictly treat you as a business customer:

"1.2   The Products are sold for business use only and Purchaser hereby accepts that it has purchased the Products in order to conduct a business."

As far as I know, business customers are not that well and comfortable protected by law as private persons are.

Second, there is no word about a refunding policy, as mentioned here (refunding possible until they ship). At least I didn't find it.
I know, that someone shared a KnC email he got, where they say it in that way. But is this binding?

In their terms and conditions is stated:

"8.2  Where delivery is delayed due to any of the circumstances constituting force majeure in accordance with 11 below or due to any act or omission by the Purchaser, the delivery period shall be extended by such a period as is reasonable in light of the circumstances.  The delivery period shall also be extended where the cause of the delay arises after the expiry of the originally agreed delivery period."

and in their definition "force majeure" is almost anything they can't control:

"11.1 KnCMiner is exempted from fulfilling its obligations under this Agreement and is entitled to cancel the Purchaser’s confirmed orders without any liability, in the event of force majeure such as strikes, floods and fires, wars, riots, interruptions in transport, shortage of material or energy sources affecting KnCMiner or its sub-suppliers, accidents or other occurrences which affects sub-suppliers’ production, bankruptcy or compulsory liquidation of a sub-supplier, accidents of any kind, governmental decisions which affects manufacturing or use of the Products and, in general, such events that were unforeseen at the time of the order which prevents or hinder manufacturing, transportation or delivery of the Products to the Purchaser."

No offence, but if "we refund everybody until we start shipping" is their official refunding policy, they should add this also to their official terms and conditions.

EU Law applies to all companies who are located in the EU.
EU Law stands above KnCminers own company T&C ("rules")!

yep you're right, nonetheless if they fail in a bad way and everyone ask for a refund, bankruptcy is almost unavoidable

Same as each current manufacturer, except here if you perform due diligence and clear the purchase with your bank first, you stand a chance to be reimbursed. Anyway we know for sure in a month. So for those on the fence it's not long now.

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August 08, 2013, 02:26:54 PM
 #5292

I assume it is a limited company, thus Johan Rilegård and Andreas Kennemar cannot be held financially responsible, even though they are CEO and CTO of Orsoc?

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August 08, 2013, 02:52:51 PM
 #5293

I assume it is a limited company, thus Johan Rilegård and Andreas Kennemar cannot be held financially responsible, even though they are CEO and CTO of Orsoc?

Seems to be a reasonable assumption, otherwise it would be more reasonable to market the product under the Orsoc name.
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August 08, 2013, 03:03:45 PM
 #5294

Are any of the controllers going to be OpenCores' OpenRISC?  That would be neat, if so.

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August 08, 2013, 03:11:21 PM
 #5295

Are any of the controllers going to be OpenCores' OpenRISC?  That would be neat, if so.


dunno if OpenRISC or something else, but definitely it's something that will be made by OrSOC, so OpenRISC should be a candidate  

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August 08, 2013, 03:18:29 PM
 #5296

I assume it is a limited company, thus Johan Rilegård and Andreas Kennemar cannot be held financially responsible, even though they are CEO and CTO of Orsoc?

Seems to be a reasonable assumption, otherwise it would be more reasonable to market the product under the Orsoc name.

They are marketing the product under the OrSoC name, when you release press that you are "Partnered Up" that puts your name on the line. While I understand that you may not have a firm grasp that there are two  companies involved which means you would need to create another as legal partners, this does not mean the individuals involved with a company cannot be held financially responsible. Many people think just because you create a certain type of company that you become completely safe from legal issues, it doesn't work this way no matter how many tin foil hats you wear.

You have a tendency to go off at half-cock.
If you feel that Orsoc and Kncminer are equally liable simply because the companies share senior officers, i suggest you alter your diet of recreational chemistry.
For instance, in case of Kncminer bankruptcy, Orsoc will continue, unaffected.  
Orsoc would not be held responsible for Kncminer debt.  
Nor will the senior officers of either co.  
Learn to law. Smiley
arbitrage001
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August 08, 2013, 03:52:05 PM
 #5297

EU rules say: If you did not recieve your product within 30 days you are lawfully entitled to get a refund!

30 days from what?
From order date.

Which I believe is the case with KNC - they have said before that they will refund anyone unless they have started shipping your order Wink

Exactly, if they miss the deadline and you feel that you want a refund. They will give it to you.

They are the only company that is like this, where you can make your bet and have it basically risk free if they don't deliver by the date in your super duper excel mathematical genius bitcoin spreadsheet.


Network difficulty is not the only problem for miner. If the value of bitcoin drop to 50 or less, a lot of people going to abuse the refund promise.


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August 08, 2013, 04:02:14 PM
 #5298

Refund policy is simple: "All sales are final!"

Who are you? why are you spreading FUD? Why is this your first venture out if newbie forums where you've only ever entered competitions for BTC giveaways??
pff. It's a BFL joke not FUD Wink
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August 08, 2013, 04:08:53 PM
 #5299

EU rules say: If you did not recieve your product within 30 days you are lawfully entitled to get a refund!

30 days from what?
From order date.

Which I believe is the case with KNC - they have said before that they will refund anyone unless they have started shipping your order Wink

Have a look at their official terms and conditions at their website (one had to accept before one can finalize the order).

First they strictly treat you as a business customer:

"1.2   The Products are sold for business use only and Purchaser hereby accepts that it has purchased the Products in order to conduct a business."

As far as I know, business customers are not that well and comfortable protected by law as private persons are.

Second, there is no word about a refunding policy, as mentioned here (refunding possible until they ship). At least I didn't find it.
I know, that someone shared a KnC email he got, where they say it in that way. But is this binding?

In their terms and conditions is stated:

"8.2  Where delivery is delayed due to any of the circumstances constituting force majeure in accordance with 11 below or due to any act or omission by the Purchaser, the delivery period shall be extended by such a period as is reasonable in light of the circumstances.  The delivery period shall also be extended where the cause of the delay arises after the expiry of the originally agreed delivery period."

and in their definition "force majeure" is almost anything they can't control:

"11.1 KnCMiner is exempted from fulfilling its obligations under this Agreement and is entitled to cancel the Purchaser’s confirmed orders without any liability, in the event of force majeure such as strikes, floods and fires, wars, riots, interruptions in transport, shortage of material or energy sources affecting KnCMiner or its sub-suppliers, accidents or other occurrences which affects sub-suppliers’ production, bankruptcy or compulsory liquidation of a sub-supplier, accidents of any kind, governmental decisions which affects manufacturing or use of the Products and, in general, such events that were unforeseen at the time of the order which prevents or hinder manufacturing, transportation or delivery of the Products to the Purchaser."

No offence, but if "we refund everybody until we start shipping" is their official refunding policy, they should add this also to their official terms and conditions.

EU Law applies to all companies who are located in the EU.
EU Law stands above KnCminers own company T&C ("rules")!

yep you're right, nonetheless if they fail in a bad way and everyone ask for a refund, bankruptcy is almost unavoidable

Same as each current manufacturer, except here if you perform due diligence and clear the purchase with your bank first, you stand a chance to be reimbursed. Anyway we know for sure in a month. So for those on the fence it's not long now.

What about customers who purchased from the US??

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Bitcoinorama
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August 08, 2013, 04:11:30 PM
 #5300

EU rules say: If you did not recieve your product within 30 days you are lawfully entitled to get a refund!

30 days from what?
From order date.

Which I believe is the case with KNC - they have said before that they will refund anyone unless they have started shipping your order Wink

Have a look at their official terms and conditions at their website (one had to accept before one can finalize the order).

First they strictly treat you as a business customer:

"1.2   The Products are sold for business use only and Purchaser hereby accepts that it has purchased the Products in order to conduct a business."

As far as I know, business customers are not that well and comfortable protected by law as private persons are.

Second, there is no word about a refunding policy, as mentioned here (refunding possible until they ship). At least I didn't find it.
I know, that someone shared a KnC email he got, where they say it in that way. But is this binding?

In their terms and conditions is stated:

"8.2  Where delivery is delayed due to any of the circumstances constituting force majeure in accordance with 11 below or due to any act or omission by the Purchaser, the delivery period shall be extended by such a period as is reasonable in light of the circumstances.  The delivery period shall also be extended where the cause of the delay arises after the expiry of the originally agreed delivery period."

and in their definition "force majeure" is almost anything they can't control:

"11.1 KnCMiner is exempted from fulfilling its obligations under this Agreement and is entitled to cancel the Purchaser’s confirmed orders without any liability, in the event of force majeure such as strikes, floods and fires, wars, riots, interruptions in transport, shortage of material or energy sources affecting KnCMiner or its sub-suppliers, accidents or other occurrences which affects sub-suppliers’ production, bankruptcy or compulsory liquidation of a sub-supplier, accidents of any kind, governmental decisions which affects manufacturing or use of the Products and, in general, such events that were unforeseen at the time of the order which prevents or hinder manufacturing, transportation or delivery of the Products to the Purchaser."

No offence, but if "we refund everybody until we start shipping" is their official refunding policy, they should add this also to their official terms and conditions.

EU Law applies to all companies who are located in the EU.
EU Law stands above KnCminers own company T&C ("rules")!

yep you're right, nonetheless if they fail in a bad way and everyone ask for a refund, bankruptcy is almost unavoidable

Same as each current manufacturer, except here if you perform due diligence and clear the purchase with your bank first, you stand a chance to be reimbursed. Anyway we know for sure in a month. So for those on the fence it's not long now.

What about customers who purchased from the US??

Did you pay by credit card? Amex at a guess would prob be best. Did you ring your card issuing bank prior? What's the consumer protection like in the US?

If you don't know the answer to these Q's, what kind of research have you been doing before investing into any alr currency mining equipment pre-order??

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