Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[Phoenix1969]

Anyone know if these things have Wifi?

ROFLMAO
After all the recent nonsense being posted, this was a refreshing chuckle!
The answer is no by the way.
Ethernet connect to a wireless router, you'll be fine.

[Anenome5]

Anyway, the most important question regarding the project schedule and the feasibility of the announced start date for delivery is:
When was the tape-out of the ASIC executed? If not executed yet, when is the tape-out planned for?

Be careful dude, I made that question for weeks and I was lynched by the wishful thinkers and wet dreamers

Yes, he was, his body is still hanging off a tree outside. He's typing this from the afterlife :|

/s

[Anenome5]

Now that there is new data on die size, I updated the GH/wafer table:

Code:

wafer(mm)   chip         process(nm)  die(mm^2)   GH/s(per die)      DpW   GH/s(per wafer)
300         KnC              28        441,00          25            128          3200,00
300         bitfury          55         14,44           2           4717          9434,00
300         bfl              65         56,25           4           1167          4668,00
300         asciminer(?)    130         17,50           0,333       3877          1291,04
300         avalon          110         16,13           0,282       4214          1188,35
300         asciminer(?)    130         21,7            0,333       3112          1036,30
(DpW, die per wafer; yield percentage not taken into account)

Die size is less than 336mm2.
I think 18x18mm

Another detail for a better table. As far as I know, 130nm(110nm) are still manufactured based on 200mm wafers. 65nm(55nm) nodes were the first built with 300mm.

Ummmm. KnC is doing a 28nm process and getting only a third of the GH/s per wafer that bitfury is getting at 55nm?

We don't have the numbers in yet to be able to say for sure. But partly Bitfury is doing a full custom ASIC and will likely result in a more efficient chip overall than KNC's, at least for this generation.

[opentoe]

opentoe, the last 5 posts are from you.  It's possible that you may wound a little too tight for the pre-order ASIC mining game.

just my 2c

Orders placed now will be shipped in October.  If you ordered in the first week or two then you will get yours in September.

Don't buy a Power Supply yet as the final specs aren't yet known.  They have specifically said they will consume LESS than 1000W and have told those planning on purchasing 1200W power supplies not to purchase until the final specs are published.

As for the pause in shipment, this is a VERY good thing for us.  KnC has the highest capacity to produce mining hardware at the moment, the less they produce after we receive our equipment, the faster we will gain ROI and turn a profit.

The only other thing I can say is calm down, buy a puppy or something.

Apparently since this version of SMF is so damn old your responses are all posted into separate posts. The newer version of SMF has the ability to combine responses into one post. I remember the owner/operator of this website was going to upgrade and even had like a few hundred thousand worth of American dollars in bitcoin, but here we still are....using and old shit ass version of SMF.

[erk]

We don't have the numbers in yet to be able to say for sure. But partly Bitfury is doing a full custom ASIC and will likely result in a more efficient chip overall than KNC's, at least for this generation.

If Bitfury are getting so many dies per wafer, why are they charging so much for it? They are basically charging similar to BFL to the prices I have seen, yet they are getting twice as many GH/s per wafer. So far KNCminer seem to be the only ones trying to get the ASIC price a bit more reasonable.

[cet]

If Bitfury are getting so many dies per wafer, why are they charging so much for it? They are basically charging similar to BFL to the prices I have seen, yet they are getting twice as many GH/s per wafer. So far KNCminer seem to be the only ones trying to get the ASIC price a bit more reasonable.

Bitfury august delivery rate is similar to BFL.  Their October delivery rates are similar to KnC.

/cet

[opentoe]

At the end of the Day, the only thing we need to be concern is can we get our miners in September 2013? ? Can we get them? How many of us are 100% confident without a doubt??

If you are confident without a doubt you are probably insane. There is no 100% guarantee for it (or anything really), but according to KNC they are still on track to deliver in September.

KNC has had many weeks to change their ship date / times. Here it is already almost AUGUST, if they haven't said anything by now hopefully we won't hear anything bad. If they happen to send out a news letter the last day of AUGUST indicating about delays, there will probably be a lot of unhappy campers.

[Anenome5]

At the end of the Day, the only thing we need to be concern is can we get our miners in September 2013? ? Can we get them? How many of us are 100% confident without a doubt??

If you are confident without a doubt you are probably insane. There is no 100% guarantee for it (or anything really), but according to KNC they are still on track to deliver in September.

KNC has had many weeks to change their ship date / times. Here it is already almost AUGUST, if they haven't said anything by now hopefully we won't hear anything bad. If they happen to send out a news letter the last day of AUGUST indicating about delays, there will probably be a lot of unhappy campers.

They claim full refunds until they ship, so if they do that then they'll have some cancellations for sure. Wait and see. Their UP;OD (under-promise; over-deliver) stance belies such a reading.

Most likely they've already ordered chips and they're being fabbed right now. They already said everything they needed to order has been ordered.

[Loredo]

If Bitfury are getting so many dies per wafer, why are they charging so much for it?

Simply because there are plenty of people who will pay it.  They even announced a 5 GB GHps USB stick for Nov delivery for -I don't know exactly, I was laughing so hard - $350 or so.  And people were posting about how many they were buying.

I started to comment on the prices per GB on their sale threads, and then thought:  if they can get it, more power to 'em.  Dave is my new hero.

But it won't last forever.  Never does.  

[aamarket]

possibly not "that many" - closed offer :  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=258926.msg2773593#msg2773593

[Kapz786]

If Bitfury are getting so many dies per wafer, why are they charging so much for it?

Simply because there are plenty of people who will pay it.  They even announced a 5 GB USB stick for Nov delivery for -I don't know exactly, I was laughing so hard - $350 or so.  And people were posting about how many they were buying.

I started to comment on the prices per GB on their sale threads, and then thought:  if they can get it, more power to 'em.  Dave is my new hero.

But it won't last forever.  Never does.   

5GB USB Stick? I have loads of 64GB sticks at home

[Nemo1024]

On a slightly different track: What about KnC making second generation USB miners? USB 3.0 specs, 0.9A, 1+GHs, priced at around 50-80 dollars. Would it be feasible with regard to production costs, power consumption, heat dissipation?
If yes, that would be a nice entry-level alternative miner to Erupter and K1, which would still be useful at higher difficulties, while promoting decentralisation of hashing. And a great gifting gadget.

Won't happen for a couple reasons. One, they don't want the shipping and support headache of having thousands of customers buying a cheap device. Secondly, their chip isn't conducive to USB mining--it's large, huge power draw and heat-spreading needs. The two philosophies go hand in hand.

I did not mean the chip that they are currently developing, but another one, which they could develop in parallel, but still on 26nm process.

possibly not "that many" - closed offer :  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=258926.msg2773593#msg2773593

Pity. Those LittleFuries was what I was thinking of (without knowing of them) when I suggested a few days ago that KnC should make USB 3.0 miners.
https://store.bitcentury.io/index.php?route=product/product&path=25_30&product_id=42
They would have been cheaper than AsicMiner's USB sticks.

[Otago]

With a 59% or more rise in difficulty next increase (https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate) I wonder whether I should cancel my Saturn order?

All manufacturers seem to have large orders due to be shipped before KnCMiner ships so Jumps of 110,000GH/s per fortnight may continue several more times if not each difficulty change.

Current jump is more than total capacity beginning of June!

I had been thinking of upgrading Saturn to Jupiter. Now it's unlikely. More likely I cancel during next few weeks while I still can!

Hopefully their planned March 2014 offering will make a good investment & ROI.

[Mota]

With a 59% or more rise in difficulty next increase (https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate) I wonder whether I should cancel my Saturn order?

All manufacturers seem to have large orders due to be shipped before KnCMiner ships so Jumps of 110,000GH/s per fortnight may continue several more times if not each difficulty change.

Current jump is more than total capacity beginning of June!

I had been thinking of upgrading Saturn to Jupiter. Now it's unlikely. More likely I cancel during next few weeks while I still can!

Hopefully their planned March 2014 offering will make a good investment & ROI.

yes. please cancel all your orders.

[Nemo1024]

With a 59% or more rise in difficulty next increase (https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate) I wonder whether I should cancel my Saturn order?

All manufacturers seem to have large orders due to be shipped before KnCMiner ships so Jumps of 110,000GH/s per fortnight may continue several more times if not each difficulty change.

Current jump is more than total capacity beginning of June!

I had been thinking of upgrading Saturn to Jupiter. Now it's unlikely. More likely I cancel during next few weeks while I still can!

Hopefully their planned March 2014 offering will make a good investment & ROI.

Your estimates are highly exaggerated. You'll see tonight

[titomane]

Now that there is new data on die size, I updated the GH/wafer table:

Code:

wafer(mm)   chip         process(nm)  die(mm^2)   GH/s(per die)      DpW   GH/s(per wafer)
300         KnC              28        441,00          25            128          3200,00
300         bitfury          55         14,44           2           4717          9434,00
300         bfl              65         56,25           4           1167          4668,00
300         asciminer(?)    130         17,50           0,333       3877          1291,04
300         avalon          110         16,13           0,282       4214          1188,35
300         asciminer(?)    130         21,7            0,333       3112          1036,30
(DpW, die per wafer; yield percentage not taken into account)

Die size is less than 336mm2.
I think 18x18mm

Another detail for a better table. As far as I know, 130nm(110nm) are still manufactured based on 200mm wafers. 65nm(55nm) nodes were the first built with 300mm.

Ummmm. KnC is doing a 28nm process and getting only a third of the GH/s per wafer that bitfury is getting at 55nm?

What's more concerning is the 25GH/s per die. Where is the data that says they are using 4 dies per package?

HERE

[Otago]

With a 59% or more rise in difficulty next increase (https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate) I wonder whether I should cancel my Saturn order?

All manufacturers seem to have large orders due to be shipped before KnCMiner ships so Jumps of 110,000GH/s per fortnight may continue several more times if not each difficulty change.

Current jump is more than total capacity beginning of June!

I had been thinking of upgrading Saturn to Jupiter. Now it's unlikely. More likely I cancel during next few weeks while I still can!

Hopefully their planned March 2014 offering will make a good investment & ROI.

Your estimates are highly exaggerated. You'll see tonight

Yip, your right.

Have since learned difficulty changes based on speed last 2016 blocks solved. Current set was due 25^th so completed way to quickly.

If 297TH/s figure I saw becomes average over future 2016 blocks they'll be solved very quickly. Then my estimate will apply. Only off by a week or so

[Ytterbium]

Anyone know if these things have Wifi?

ROFLMAO
After all the recent nonsense being posted, this was a refreshing chuckle!
The answer is no by the way.
Ethernet connect to a wireless router, you'll be fine.

Haha, I didn't think so - Isn't the Avalon technically a router?  Has anyone ever gotten it to work as a wireless router? It has an ethernet port sitting there doing nothing 

[HyperMega]

Now that there is new data on die size, I updated the GH/wafer table:

Code:

wafer(mm)   chip         process(nm)  die(mm^2)   GH/s(per die)      DpW   GH/s(per wafer)
300         KnC              28        441,00          25         128          3200,00
300         bitfury          55         14,44           2           4717          9434,00
300         bfl              65         56,25           4           1167          4668,00
300         asciminer(?)    130         17,50           0,333       3877          1291,04
300         avalon          110         16,13           0,282       4214          1188,35
300         asciminer(?)    130         21,7            0,333       3112          1036,30
(DpW, die per wafer; yield percentage not taken into account)

Die size is less than 336mm2.
I think 18x18mm

Another detail for a better table. As far as I know, 130nm(110nm) are still manufactured based on 200mm wafers. 65nm(55nm) nodes were the first built with 300mm.

Ummmm. KnC is doing a 28nm process and getting only a third of the GH/s per wafer that bitfury is getting at 55nm?

What's more concerning is the 25GH/s per die. Where is the data that says they are using 4 dies per package?

HERE

The slides says that it's only one die, containing 4 self-contained cores (quads).
A more correct table looks like that:
-> KnC die size estimated based on technology scaling
-> Source for Bitfury die size? Seems to be wrong. And chips are specified for 5GH/s per chip (not 2 GH/s)

Code:

wafer(mm)   chip         process(nm)  die(mm^2)   GH/s(per die)      DpW   GH/s(per wafer)
300         KnC              28        120,00           100         589          58904,00
300         bitfury          55         14,44           2           4847          9694,00
300         bfl              65         56,25           4           1244          4976,00
200         asciminer(?)    130         17,50           0,333       1795          597,74
200         avalon          110         16,13           0,282       1947          549,05
200         asciminer(?)    130         21,7            0,333       1447          477,51
(DpW, die per wafer; yield percentage not taken into account)

That is the real 28nm world!

[timmmers]

With a 59% or more rise in difficulty next increase (https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate) I wonder whether I should cancel my Saturn order?

All manufacturers seem to have large orders due to be shipped before KnCMiner ships so Jumps of 110,000GH/s per fortnight may continue several more times if not each difficulty change.

Current jump is more than total capacity beginning of June!

I had been thinking of upgrading Saturn to Jupiter. Now it's unlikely. More likely I cancel during next few weeks while I still can!

Hopefully their planned March 2014 offering will make a good investment & ROI.

Based on this, the game is over. No point in anyone buying any ASICs anymore as they will never return anything worthwhile, so not much point in anyone thinking about building a next gen machine never mind selling one as they are always going to be fighting a losing battle?

IF a KnC machine that's not even built yet can't profit, why would the next gen be any different?