Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[dracore]

On genesisblock, if you add in the costs for hosting on top of the miner, unless you're on track to get the miners on Sept 1, you will have negative ROI at 62% difficulty.  I don't know why people are signing up for this?  

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[Mota]

On genesisblock, if you add in the costs for hosting on top of the miner, unless you're on track to get the miners on Sept 1, you will have negative ROI at 62% difficulty.  I don't know why people are signing up for this?  

because most people know how to use genesisblock. you clearly don't.

[dwdoc]

But I do take it as a good sign that Knc has this much Info and details about the hosting..  That tells me they are on track or they would not have posted all that..   Like BFL..  Never saw their supposed Hosting Plan..

When ordering equipment from Butterfly Labs, you have the option of hosting your equipment locally with one of our affiliate data centers. While BFL does not host equipment directly, we do work with local providers to place your equipment.

Currently, we work with a company called J.Morgan and Associates, which will host your equipment at their facilities. The current cost structure for hosting is:

MiniRig SC: $625 per month, per rig
50 GH/s and 60 GH/s $100 per month, per unit

http://www.butterflylabs.com/faq/

Sad story... say you're a BFL customer and you opt for hosting to get your unit hashing ASAP - this seems like a straightforward option. You pay for your 60GH miner, hosting and you've got a June or July 2012 order, so you feel like you might actually receive the product. Then the power usage for the products change drastically and BFL doesn't have enough PSUs. Of course they give customers the option of shipping w/o the PSU and so customers can supply their own hacked PSU, but those that paid for hosting - they are now SOL and waiting behind everyone else. It'd be funny, if it weren't sad.

Luckily there's no way KnC runs into this problem since their products uses a standard ATX PSU, available everywhere.

At least BFL does not require 6 months pre-payment of hosting fees (it's pay as you go).  This KNC hosting deal sounds shady to me. I will wait to see a working prototype.  If all the hosting spots are taken at that time I will pay for delivery when the time comes...

[Mota]

Really? another at least BFL... post? And you call THAT shady? Well, I am out for two weeks, I am brimming with confidence that this thread will be wasted with stupid/lazy/troll posts up to page 300 when I come back.

[timmmers]

A bit disappointed that they're asking for the hosting $$$ up front. I thought it would be on a month-to-month basis. Anyone else disappointed?

Nope - doesn't bother me at all. It'll be painful for them to chase after people that don't pay their month to month hosting and then they have to be concerned about shutting off customers who just forgot to pay a bill.

I'm all for paying up front.

That could be remedied by not returning the miner to the customer until balance is paid in full, or implementing late fees and service disconnection. I don't think that's too difficult to do. If people are getting ROI, I don't see why customers wouldn't pay the monthly fee to continue to get even more ROI.

To me it looks like you pay a premium to start mining in September.  But unless BTC is $150 or higher, its just gonna kill profitability on these with the insane rate of difficulty...I guess so long as you're mining btc, you could just look at it as a deferred ROI if btc doesn't hit or exceed $150 for another 6 months..

If you order today, and then order hosting, you'd still be waiting in line until all orders before you - hosting or not - get shipped or put into hosting. So, it does not necessarily mean that you'll be able to cut the line and guarantee September mining start date. The only premium/time you save is the time it takes to ship/get through customs. Someone confirm?

Absolutely!
You get the miner based on when you ordered.
When you take hosting it means they put it online that day... the day your order comes from the factory... not 1 day sooner...
Well, actually when you paid your order! (although there are some exceptions to this)

Sorry - I was referring to those who preordered/paid and have the best possibility of making the highest return.  If you are in that position and DONT choose hosting, you could be forfeiting a substantial portion of your ROI, depending on the length of time it takes to receive the shipment - at least according to http://mining.thegenesisblock.com

When I paid it added 90 dollars for NEXT DAY delivery. I can wait a day.
People are so keen to get involved in pre-ordering stuff they maybe miss the obvious normal stuff?
When a machine is built and ready, I expect it to be either shipped next day to the buyer, or taken to a hosting facility ...which isn't going to be instant unless they also built a teleporter is it? They'll need to get it there, set it up, (along with many many others in the same situation) etc. ..so maybe if it's busy one that's sent to a buyer with only his own machine to worry about getting online will be hashing earlier?

[Kuroth]

I am not even interested in Hosting but agree that Knc needs to have "Pay as you go" hosting.   If they are on track they should have no issue with Pay as you go Hosting as they know they will get their hosting money.

Come on Knc..  Wake up..


Or maybe it is all a scam..

[Spelon]

But I do take it as a good sign that Knc has this much Info and details about the hosting..  That tells me they are on track or they would not have posted all that..   Like BFL..  Never saw their supposed Hosting Plan..

When ordering equipment from Butterfly Labs, you have the option of hosting your equipment locally with one of our affiliate data centers. While BFL does not host equipment directly, we do work with local providers to place your equipment.

Currently, we work with a company called J.Morgan and Associates, which will host your equipment at their facilities. The current cost structure for hosting is:

MiniRig SC: $625 per month, per rig
50 GH/s and 60 GH/s $100 per month, per unit

http://www.butterflylabs.com/faq/

Sad story... say you're a BFL customer and you opt for hosting to get your unit hashing ASAP - this seems like a straightforward option. You pay for your 60GH miner, hosting and you've got a June or July 2012 order, so you feel like you might actually receive the product. Then the power usage for the products change drastically and BFL doesn't have enough PSUs. Of course they give customers the option of shipping w/o the PSU and so customers can supply their own hacked PSU, but those that paid for hosting - they are now SOL and waiting behind everyone else. It'd be funny, if it weren't sad.

Luckily there's no way KnC runs into this problem since their products uses a standard ATX PSU, available everywhere.

At least BFL does not require 6 months pre-payment of hosting fees (it's pay as you go).  This KNC hosting deal sounds shady to me. I will wait to see a working prototype.  If all the hosting spots are taken at that time I will pay for delivery when the time comes...

I operate a data center in Stockholm, I could just pick it up and host it for you. Pay per month like any other customer. Got two units I'll be hosting for myself.

[dwdoc]

Really? another at least BFL... post? And you call THAT shady? Well, I am out for two weeks, I am brimming with confidence that this thread will be wasted with stupid/lazy/troll posts up to page 300 when I come back.

Stupid is pre paying 6 months of hosting for a device which may or may not exist 2 months from now.
I'm still optimistic about KNC, but am trying to be realistic.  Sorry about the comparison with BFL but what other providers offer hosting services?

[btceic]

Really? another at least BFL... post? And you call THAT shady? Well, I am out for two weeks, I am brimming with confidence that this thread will be wasted with stupid/lazy/troll posts up to page 300 when I come back.

Stupid is pre paying 6 months of hosting for a device which may or may not exist 2 months from now.
I'm still optimistic about KNC, but am trying to be realistic.  Sorry about the comparison with BFL but what other providers offer hosting services?

Last I heard, steamboat is offering hosting, same with terratrash, but... see any of my posts about them to see what I think.

[Spelon]

Reached pm limit, if you got any questions you can mail directly to bitcoin@anotherhost.se, I'll check with my co-workers tomorrow to see if we can get a miner hosting service going for those that want us to pick up and host knc miners. Good night.

[erk]

Reached pm limit, if you got any questions you can mail directly to bitcoin@anotherhost.se, I'll check with my co-workers tomorrow to see if we can get a miner hosting service going for those that want us to pick up and host knc miners. Good night.

You might want to research/clarify insurance requirements for this type of gear, as the items are reasonably expensive.

Also someone is going to have to organize the ATX PSU and install it.

[Loredo]

Stupid is pre paying 6 months of hosting for a device which may or may not exist 2 months from now.
I'm still optimistic about KNC, but am trying to be realistic. 

Absolutely.  Realistic risk management and cash management doesn't align with the pre-payment model.  It's not like pre-paying for a hotel room close to home at Christmas or a ticket to a concert.  You know those are going to happen. 

Prepayment for hosting particularly doesn't make sense.  They have your equipment, and can "lien" your bitcoin earnings if you don't make the monthly payments.  They're likely using the prepayment to fund their setup costs.  Nice, if they can get it.  But there's no reason to give it to them unless there were a significant discount for prepayment.

[KS]

You might want to research/clarify insurance requirements for this type of gear, as the items are reasonably expensive.

Always good to ask, but they're a hosting/webdev company (take a look, they have all the proper info on their website, albeit in Swedenese -some could use that as a template...), I would think their insurance is covering their own expensive gear and/or they're covered by the DC hosting them (if they don't have their own).

I liked the "reasonably expensive" items

[KS]

Stupid is pre paying 6 months of hosting for a device which may or may not exist 2 months from now.
I'm still optimistic about KNC, but am trying to be realistic. 

Absolutely.  Realistic risk management and cash management doesn't align with the pre-payment model.  It's not like pre-paying for a hotel room close to home at Christmas or a ticket to a concert.  You know those are going to happen. 

Prepayment for hosting particularly doesn't make sense.  They have your equipment, and can "lien" your bitcoin earnings if you don't make the monthly payments.  They're likely using the prepayment to fund their setup costs.  Nice, if they can get it.  But there's no reason to give it to them unless there were a significant discount for prepayment.

Actually, pre-payment does make sense as they're only starting that business and have no clue how it will go. There might also be substantial setup costs, unless they get a "deal", but they need enough buying power (starting from zero). It's a way for them to only sign up the serious customers. If/when the ball is rolling, they will look at adding more customers through cheaper/shorter offerings.

[dwdoc]

One or two months prepaid as a deposit would be more reasonable.  More customers would enroll so they would probably collect just as much.  Anyway, looks like there are other cheaper local hosting options available if KNC does not change its arrangement.

[Ytterbium]

I agree these hosting plans seem way over priced, almost half the cost of the machine itself. Bitcoin miners don't exactly require a lot of babysitting, early avalons required power cycling once in a while, but with newer hardware it shouldn't be an issue. Once it's configured you just plug it in and turn it on.

Plus, having access to their pool isn't really that big of a deal,  2% fee vs. a 3% fee at BTCguild or something? When you're paying hundreds a month to host? If the pool is too small run of bad luck could ruin their profitability over a difficulty period. Unless it's pure PPS or something.

[Loredo]

Anyway, looks like there are other cheaper local hosting options available if KNC does not change its arrangement.

The beauty of competition.  

Personally, I hope KnC's hosting is a success; if makes sense for customers to have equipment in the hands of the providers.  The prepayment model is so repulsive to me, though; there never seems to be recognition of the risk it entails and how it alters the vendor-customer relationship.

[DPoS]

you all did read that they only had so much space to host right?  so of course space becomes a premium.   Just like when everyone hated on Friedcat's early prices then sat there slackjaw as the blades went for 60+btc a piece on auction

I am still sticking with my prediction of a few months ago that there will be some real strain and dark days ahead for btc in general..  hopefully wash out all the weak hands and get rich quickers...   if so I will buy up all the 'unprofitible' miners on firesale as btc goes down to sub $50

hedge accordingly..  anyone who already made millions mining btc would be a fool to double down in this phase.  If they hold back they can either buy when there is blood in the streets or be ahead of the game on the next gen while this chaotic early ASIC phase works itself out

[canth]

Anyway, looks like there are other cheaper local hosting options available if KNC does not change its arrangement.

The beauty of competition.  

Personally, I hope KnC's hosting is a success; if makes sense for customers to have equipment in the hands of the providers.  The prepayment model is so repulsive to me, though; there never seems to be recognition of the risk it entails and how it alters the vendor-customer relationship.

Keep in mind that KnC is not an ISP or hosting company. They're just getting into the business and they're going to need to commit to 12mo+ agreements with colo space, ISPs, etc. It's fine that you don't think this is worth the cost, just realize that there are plenty of us that have no problem with it.

[canth]

you all did read that they only had so much space to host right?  so of course space becomes a premium.   Just like when everyone hated on Friedcat's early prices then sat there slackjaw as the blades went for 60+btc a piece on auction

I am still sticking with my prediction of a few months ago that there will be some real strain and dark days ahead for btc in general..  hopefully wash out all the weak hands and get rich quickers...   if so I will buy up all the 'unprofitible' miners on firesale as btc goes down to sub $50

hedge accordingly..  anyone who already made millions mining btc would be a fool to double down in this phase.  If they hold back they can either buy when there is blood in the streets or be ahead of the game on the next gen while this chaotic early ASIC phase works itself out

So, I take it you're selling a large chunk or most of your BTC now, while you can get $80 or $90 for it? Afterall, why not - you'll be able to buy up both BTC and the miners at the supposed firesale that's coming.

I'm not saying that you're wrong (or right) - I just wonder if you're just talking or actually taking action.