Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[Bitcoinorama]

So is it too late for me to pull a refund from BFL and instead invest it into KnC? =/

As of now, it highly seem unlikely I'll receive my miners from BFL by Q1 2014, let alone October which is KnC's "projected" date.  If I made a purchase now with KnC, will I be able to get something before the end of this year?

No one can answer this for you but yourself.

It would be irresponsible.

As irresponsible as it is for you to ask a group of strangers to make your mind up for you, on the premise you will blame anyone, but yourself for your own decision should deadlines be missed.

Read up, all the info is here, sufficient to make a choice, KnC to their credit have been more open about who hy are and their intentions than any other company and their talent exists.

However, it's upto you to determine your own risk profile and invest funds you are willing to risk. Again, funds you are comfortable risking. As with any other horse here, this is a race, some are more competent, but they are involved in a race.

Make an informed choice, let it be your own, and blame or credit no one but yourself on the other side of September...

There is a zero percentage risk, NO 28mm chips(units)= someone gonna die, I can wait for my unit in jail. People do not borrow money just from banks  

Or you can use some for of protected payment method like credit card and save yourself the incarceration

[jelin1984]

final
any news about knc chips?

will be production these month or not??

is august

[erk]

final
any news about knc chips?

will be production these month or not??

is august

There has never been a mention of August production to my knowledge.

[Anenome5]

final
any news about knc chips?

will be production these month or not??

is august

They confirmed tape-out. That's all.

[sbfree]

Anenome5, can you describe "tape-out" to a noob.

Also, if KNC has already done this, and has already given a ship out date or timeline (sept. 1-30), why hold back any info. in regards to the

actual progress in the making of these machines??

I know others have stated competitive business practices and secrecy, but if there are other manufacturers/competitors, wouldn't they

know more or less where KNC is at in the manufacturing process by stating a shipping date/timeline anyway??

[FUKT]

So is it too late for me to pull a refund from BFL and instead invest it into KnC? =/

As of now, it highly seem unlikely I'll receive my miners from BFL by Q1 2014, let alone October which is KnC's "projected" date.  If I made a purchase now with KnC, will I be able to get something before the end of this year?

No one can answer this for you but yourself.

It would be irresponsible.

As irresponsible as it is for you to ask a group of strangers to make your mind up for you, on the premise you will blame anyone, but yourself for your own decision should deadlines be missed.

Read up, all the info is here, sufficient to make a choice, KnC to their credit have been more open about who hy are and their intentions than any other company and their talent exists.

However, it's upto you to determine your own risk profile and invest funds you are willing to risk. Again, funds you are comfortable risking. As with any other horse here, this is a race, some are more competent, but they are involved in a race.

Make an informed choice, let it be your own, and blame or credit no one but yourself on the other side of September...

There is a zero percentage risk, NO 28mm chips(units)= someone gonna die, I can wait for my unit in jail. People do not borrow money just from banks  

Lol, some people fail to realise that there are people (myself included) who would just fly to Sweden and kick some fucking heads in if they fail to deliver on time.

[Bitcoinorama]

Anenome5, can you describe "tape-out" to a noob.

Also, if KNC has already done this, and has already given a ship out date or timeline (sept. 1-30), why hold back any info. in regards to the

actual progress in the making of these machines??

I know others have stated competitive business practices and secrecy, but if there are other manufacturers/competitors, wouldn't they

know more or less where KNC is at in the manufacturing process by stating a shipping date/timeline anyway??

No, they wouldn't they can only guess, which, if you look around you is the reason the forum is in disarray.

[YipYip]

Anenome5, can you describe "tape-out" to a noob.

Also, if KNC has already done this, and has already given a ship out date or timeline (sept. 1-30), why hold back any info. in regards to the

actual progress in the making of these machines??

I know others have stated competitive business practices and secrecy, but if there are other manufacturers/competitors, wouldn't they

know more or less where KNC is at in the manufacturing process by stating a shipping date/timeline anyway??

Tape out basically submits the final design to the fabrcation process

i.e they now build it

[sbfree]

Yipyip, in other words, according to kncminer, by "tape-out" they mean to say that the chip is beyond theoretical design, and is now actually in the fabrication (or build it stage as you put it) plant where they make ASIC chips?

Anyone know how long it takes to fab 50 wafers?

[polarhei]

Anenome5, can you describe "tape-out" to a noob.

Also, if KNC has already done this, and has already given a ship out date or timeline (sept. 1-30), why hold back any info. in regards to the

actual progress in the making of these machines??

I know others have stated competitive business practices and secrecy, but if there are other manufacturers/competitors, wouldn't they

know more or less where KNC is at in the manufacturing process by stating a shipping date/timeline anyway??

Tape out basically submits the final design to the fabrcation process

i.e they now build it

I don't think so as there are bad cases even the FPGA array unveiled for proof. There is high chance that the being is not sent on 30 September 2013. For this reqson, I have to look more, which is known as labcoin,  may be the first answer for me due to the fucked up.

[HyperMega]

Yipyip, in other words, according to kncminer, by "tape-out" they mean to say that the chip is beyond theoretical design, and is now actually in the fabrication (or build it stage as you put it) plant where they make ASIC chips?

Anyone know how long it takes to fab 50 wafers?

Wafers are manufactured in lots (e.g. 25 wafer each). A Foundry normally gives you a committed cycle time for the concrete 28nm fab for a wafer lot. That time strongly depends on what priority your run got and which tech options you choose (e.g. how many metal layers). If they were lucky and got a so called "rocket" run it could be as fast as 30 to 45 days. Standard runs take between 60 to 90 days.

After that the wafers must be bumped (prepared for flip-chip packaging, probably at another facility), diced in dies and packaged in the flip-chip package. Don't know how long this takes exactly, but it could be easily "2 more weeks".

[nightengale]

So... If I understand things correctly, the "pre-order registration" shipments are supposed to go out in September. I came into the game a little later and initiated a purchase via PayPal eCheck on 6/23; those are supposed to clear in 3-5 business days. Then on 6/26, KnC sent out a newsletter apologizing for any confusion on the pre-order process, and offered an additional 7-day window on pre-order payment. They've been very clear all along however, that orders will ship in the order of payment received. They've also been clear that they are not shipping "batches", but rather shipping continuously. I've not been assigned a "ship day" as of yet. So my question is, is it possible that my miner will ship in September then b/c of the payment-received order queueing?

[plasmoske]

So my question is, is it possible that my miner will ship in September then b/c of the payment-received order queueing?

It's possible. You might not know. But for the people who "pre-ordered" before all this, they are pretty much guaranteed September delivery.

[cet]

So... If I understand things correctly, the "pre-order registration" shipments are supposed to go out in September. I came into the game a little later and initiated a purchase via PayPal eCheck on 6/23; those are supposed to clear in 3-5 business days. Then on 6/26, KnC sent out a newsletter apologizing for any confusion on the pre-order process, and offered an additional 7-day window on pre-order payment. They've been very clear all along however, that orders will ship in the order of payment received. They've also been clear that they are not shipping "batches", but rather shipping continuously. I've not been assigned a "ship day" as of yet. So my question is, is it possible that my miner will ship in September then b/c of the payment-received order queueing?

I'm pretty sure that they have assigned a ship date to all orders that will go out in September.  If you don't have a ship date 1,2,3 type comment on your order then you should count on the order being in october.  If it ships in September then it will be a happy surprise.

/cet

[Minor Miner]

and 3 months ago, KnC was an idea to "make lots of money".

No, three months ago you found out about their plan when they went public. We don't in fact know how long this has been in planning behind the scenes, but probably at least since January, and even more likely into 2012. By the time we heard about it, things were already at a very advanced stage we must assume, for they already by then had a deal with Orsoc, which we heard about almost immediately after, and such deals take time to organize, communicate and get done, and they also had in place their design which was nearly ready to tape out, and they'd already planned their Mars miner which they executed in less than 6 weeks into a running miner, which is fairly impressive.

I have to balk at your assertion that 3 months ago KNC was a twinkle in someone's eye. This company has done an unknown amount of planning and work prior to their public debut, and we probably won't hear the retrospective on that until after they ship the first gen and have breathing room to do interviews and throw parties and the like.

Read back on when they made the deal with OrSoc.  it was AFTER their "poll".   So, if the "expert design firm" signed on a couple of months ago, do you still stick by your point of months and months of "advanced, behind the scenes, planning"?

[timmmers]

final
any news about knc chips?

will be production these month or not??

is august

There has never been a mention of August production to my knowledge.

Shipping in Sept pretty much means that, unless they did a deal with Harry Potter, or their production facility also makes "Earl Grey, hot".

None of this matters now. There are 3 options. None of which we can influence:-
1) They are correct in what they say and deliver as they say.
2) They hit a snag and are a few weeks late...and take all the flak that BFL built up over a year for that one thing.
3) Total fail. Anything from being complete incompetents to a year of delays meaning that the machines aren't worth owning.

We are all in one of 3 positions now:-
You made a decision, you bought.
You're thinking about it still.
You made a decision, you didn't.

3 options for the above:--

1) Wait. Nothing is proven to be wrong yet. You have no reason to think they won't deliver.
2) Wait. See what happens and maybe jump on the next gen rather than be last in line and suffer from the massive hash power increase.
3) STFU and go wait for your BFL kit to arrive so you can auction it on Antiques Roadshow or  masturbate or something other than attempt to piss others off who made an informed decision knowing the risks.

[Anenome5]

and 3 months ago, KnC was an idea to "make lots of money".

No, three months ago you found out about their plan when they went public. We don't in fact know how long this has been in planning behind the scenes, but probably at least since January, and even more likely into 2012. By the time we heard about it, things were already at a very advanced stage we must assume, for they already by then had a deal with Orsoc, which we heard about almost immediately after, and such deals take time to organize, communicate and get done, and they also had in place their design which was nearly ready to tape out, and they'd already planned their Mars miner which they executed in less than 6 weeks into a running miner, which is fairly impressive.

I have to balk at your assertion that 3 months ago KNC was a twinkle in someone's eye. This company has done an unknown amount of planning and work prior to their public debut, and we probably won't hear the retrospective on that until after they ship the first gen and have breathing room to do interviews and throw parties and the like.

Read back on when they made the deal with OrSoc.  it was AFTER their "poll".

Pretty sure it was only -announced- / revealed at that point.

   So, if the "expert design firm" signed on a couple of months ago, do you still stick by your point of months and months of "advanced, behind the scenes, planning"?

Here's their 2nd post in this thread--they're already referencing having a hardware partner. It was already in place:

Sorry to be skeptical, but here we go again

New company springs up
no product or even product specs
shipping some time in the future
join the cue and only pay half price-what a deal

Thanks for your reply. I honestly can’t blame you at all and I think you are quite right. To make people feel better I will try to do my best to answer as many questions as possible.
First I will start by listing our negative points and then the points that I believe will help people
1.   We have only just opened
2.   We have no previous history
3.   We are taking your money in Advance
So to answer these issues I would like to say the following and please feel free to quote me.

1.   Yes we have just sprang up, everyone has to start somewhere, We have been personally mining for a few months and we want to be part of the ASIC wave which I think we can all say is coming in the next few months Avalon have already started and I don’t need to talk about BFL. 
2.   The hardware development companies we are using (names will become public shortly) have many years of ASIC and FPGA development behind them and we are confident that with their expertise we can produce and deliver when they become public so will there work and you can purchase there designs and see all the publicly available information on them
3.   Let me be very clear on this one our web shop is not taking payments for ANY products today at all. We will only open up for payments when we have some more significant specs to provide. We have opened up for registration only and so that when we do launch a product we will hopefully have a bit of history so point 1 will become less of an issue.

Things that will happen this week
We are going through Thawte to get a EV certificate so our website will be https to give you extra confidence. We will be constantly posting on our news pages of the progress we make in the next few weeks,
We are holding daily meetings with the partners and getting reports on progress on the development, we are faces with some challenges and some decisions that will be made,

We will use the voting section on our site to allow as getting feedback on things like power consumptions requirements and device size. Time is at the essence and we will take feedback and suggestions from anyone in this early stage to actually drive the development with real user requirements

ONLY then when we have enough stats and some hard figures will we launch the ability to enter the order queue, so before that day comes I would like to ask all the Secptics out there, to please comment here and reply. The more you ask questions the more I will try to produce something that will enable you to trust us. I understand that this need will disappear after we actually ship and everyone feel free to actually wait to place the order. But the more people that register the more our hardware partners will through resources at it and the faster we can get something that you can actually order and mine with

As for names behind the company I can give you two names today

Mine is Sam Cole and my college is Andreas Kennemar the company we hold together is called Kennemar & Cole Hense the KNC in the name of KNCminer our other business is an IT consultancy in Sweden we have a site called www.hitta.se you will find  us both on there,

How can you deny they had a deal in place with Orsoc before they went public with their plan? It's plain that they did.

Only later did we find out the name, Orsoc, and then we pestered Orsoc to confirm, they did, put a link up on their site, etc., etc.

I dunno if you guys are just tossing FUD or not doing your due diligence but this info's been there from the beginning.

[sbfree]

Yipyip, in other words, according to kncminer, by "tape-out" they mean to say that the chip is beyond theoretical design, and is now actually in the fabrication (or build it stage as you put it) plant where they make ASIC chips?

Anyone know how long it takes to fab 50 wafers?

Wafers are manufactured in lots (e.g. 25 wafer each). A Foundry normally gives you a committed cycle time for the concrete 28nm fab for a wafer lot. That time strongly depends on what priority your run got and which tech options you choose (e.g. how many metal layers). If they were lucky and got a so called "rocket" run it could be as fast as 30 to 45 days. Standard runs take between 60 to 90 days.

After that the wafers must be bumped (prepared for flip-chip packaging, probably at another facility), diced in dies and packaged in the flip-chip package. Don't know how long this takes exactly, but it could be easily "2 more weeks".

Hypermega, thanks for that info. Any others with knowledge experience care to enlighten us further of Chip building??

KnCminer stated at the end of June that everything that needed to be order up to that point had been ordered. I wonder if this included

the Tape-out?

They then stated at the end of July that the ASIC tape-out had been done a while ago. Since it wasn't specifically stated at the end of

June, I will assume that tape-out hadn't been done yet. I will also assume that in their July statement, 'a while ago' is two weeks, since

in the Bitcoin world, 2 weeks is a while ago.

That would mean that KnC would need the "rocket run" in order to make any September delivery. IF the end of June statement

by KnC INCLUDED the tape-out, then a standard run will allow for Sept. 2013 delivery.

BUT no matter what, if delivery is to take place in Sept., the ASIC chip on board will have to be done before the end of August to have

any chance of delivery in September.

I hope we get a clue in the next two week as my order sits on the sideline until further news.

[Ytterbium]

They then stated at the end of July that the ASIC tape-out had been done a while ago. Since it wasn't specifically stated at the end of

June, I will assume that tape-out hadn't been done yet. I will also assume that in their July statement, 'a while ago' is two weeks, since

in the Bitcoin world, 2 weeks is a while ago.

The reason they came in and posted that they had taped out was that a bunch of people in the thread were demanding to know why they had never announced that they'd taped-out, the way other ASIC companies had. As if the fact they hadn't publicly announced their tape-out meant that they hadn't done so.

So the reason they mentioned they'd taped out when they did is because that's when people started demanding answers about it.

[YipYip]

They then stated at the end of July that the ASIC tape-out had been done a while ago. Since it wasn't specifically stated at the end of

June, I will assume that tape-out hadn't been done yet. I will also assume that in their July statement, 'a while ago' is two weeks, since

in the Bitcoin world, 2 weeks is a while ago.

The reason they came in and posted that they had taped out was that a bunch of people in the thread were demanding to know why they had never announced that they'd taped-out, the way other ASIC companies had. As if the fact they hadn't publicly announced their tape-out meant that they hadn't done so.

So the reason they mentioned they'd taped out when they did is because that's when people started demanding answers about it.

To be honest even if i now have 2.1 btc saying they will fail

http://bitbet.us/bet/472/kncminer-will-deliver-asic-devices-before-october-1st/#c1174

On paper (also they are swedish) it actually sounds and looks rather good

i.e

1) they have followed a process
2) know what they are doing
3) have not told never ending lies aka BFL
4) have known and respected partners (even though small crews)

so going by all of this you should bet YES @ bitbet...........and heres the but

After 20 years in IT shit happens and I just think they have a small window for problems ~ 2-3 weeks at best ...so in a way my bet of NO should be getting 2:1 odds as if they are what they have made out to be then there is a good chance they can deliver as long as there are no major external factors

popcorn ready

P.S Either way it will be awesome if they do deliver and really good for crypto & a nail in the coffin in BFL !!