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Author Topic: [1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool  (Read 2589925 times)
kjj
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December 22, 2013, 05:32:53 AM
 #7241

Sigh - OK so what you are telling me is that the function in p2pool is flawed and not as specified on the p2pool.info web site.

The hash rate of the pool is simply the accepted difficulty of all the shares over a given period of time divided by that time.
The shorter the time frame, the more unreliable it is i.e. the greater the variance.

The way bitcoin works is it does indeed do what you are suggesting - however it does it over a set of data that is consistent - a set of blocks that have the same difficulty requirement.

Doing it over a set of data that isn't consistent, is, well, saying it's done incorrectly.
Maybe that is part of the reason why it jumps all over the place like crap.

What you are implying is that indeed it has nothing to do with the p2pool hash rate, but rather a set of shares with somewhat random difficulty.

I will also point out that your wording is vague and missing a detail:
The difficulty of the share submitted is only the difficulty that it was requested at, not the actual difficulty of the share itself.
All shares on all pools have varying difficulty, but it is only the difficulty of the work request that can affect anything on any pool payment scheme other than PoT

Edit: this also means the payout scheme could be flawed.

Yes, you should always read difficulty in this discussion as "difficulty of target" rather than "highest difficulty that target could have been and still been satisfied by this block".  My apologies for thinking that detail was obvious enough to warrant ommission.

I can't really imagine what makes you think that doing something other than the way you think it should be done makes it "wrong".  Hubris much?

Bitcoin uses long stretches of blocks with static target, and very strict rules for changing that target.  Those rules were chosen based on the needs of bitcoin.

p2pool has different needs.  The rules that make sense for bitcoin do not make sense for p2pool, so p2pool has not blindly copied them.  For example, in bitcoin, a large hashing attacker could profit by whipping the difficulty up and down, so we have strict rules about when and how difficulty can change which mitigate those attacks.  No such profit is to be had in p2pool.

In p2pool, when a block is found, the last N shares are paid out, each share based on that share's fraction of the total.  The total is easy to find.  The fraction of the total embedded in each share is easy to find.  I'm not sure what is "incorrect" about any of this.

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December 22, 2013, 07:28:03 PM
 #7242

Also, how is a more difficult share treated with respect to finding the longest blockchain? The same, or is a more difficult share given priority over a less difficult one?

All the same, I think.  It would give large miners a lower orphan rate otherwise.

Quote
I assume a miner who finds a block is also considered to have found a share (at whatever her difficulty level is set at), in addition to the 0.5% bonus, correct?

Weirdly, no.  You could find a block and still not get the share accepted.  You still get your 0.5% bonus though, since you would have put that in your coinbase.

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December 22, 2013, 07:31:58 PM
 #7243

I can't really imagine what makes you think that doing something other than the way you think it should be done makes it "wrong".  Hubris much?

The point is that it could lead to instability.  If the larger miners set their difficulty high for 1 re-target period and then all switched to low difficulty later, then the share rate would be much lower than 30 seconds.

Ofc, it would auto-correct after the next difficulty period. 

Also, if all large miners suddenly went from default difficulty to high difficulty, then it would slow down the chain.

Slightly off topic, the N in p2pool is the lower of, 3 blocks worth of shares and 3 days, right?

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anti76
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December 23, 2013, 09:11:34 AM
 #7244

AntMiner gives a lot of errors.
tell me how to adjust?

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December 23, 2013, 12:44:05 PM
 #7245

Sigh - OK so what you are telling me is that the function in p2pool is flawed and not as specified on the p2pool.info web site.

The hash rate of the pool is simply the accepted difficulty of all the shares over a given period of time divided by that time.
The shorter the time frame, the more unreliable it is i.e. the greater the variance.

The way bitcoin works is it does indeed do what you are suggesting - however it does it over a set of data that is consistent - a set of blocks that have the same difficulty requirement.

Doing it over a set of data that isn't consistent, is, well, saying it's done incorrectly.
Maybe that is part of the reason why it jumps all over the place like crap.

What you are implying is that indeed it has nothing to do with the p2pool hash rate, but rather a set of shares with somewhat random difficulty.

I will also point out that your wording is vague and missing a detail:
The difficulty of the share submitted is only the difficulty that it was requested at, not the actual difficulty of the share itself.
All shares on all pools have varying difficulty, but it is only the difficulty of the work request that can affect anything on any pool payment scheme other than PoT

Edit: this also means the payout scheme could be flawed.

Yes, you should always read difficulty in this discussion as "difficulty of target" rather than "highest difficulty that target could have been and still been satisfied by this block".  My apologies for thinking that detail was obvious enough to warrant ommission.
The point of my comment was indeed that p2pool takes proper notice of the difficulty ... sometimes.

Quote
I can't really imagine what makes you think that doing something other than the way you think it should be done makes it "wrong".  Hubris much?

Bitcoin uses long stretches of blocks with static target, and very strict rules for changing that target.  Those rules were chosen based on the needs of bitcoin.

p2pool has different needs.  The rules that make sense for bitcoin do not make sense for p2pool, so p2pool has not blindly copied them.  For example, in bitcoin, a large hashing attacker could profit by whipping the difficulty up and down, so we have strict rules about when and how difficulty can change which mitigate those attacks.  No such profit is to be had in p2pool.
... and yet p2pool copied it from the Bitcoin code except for making the mistake of not using consistent data Tongue

Quote
In p2pool, when a block is found, the last N shares are paid out, each share based on that share's fraction of the total.  The total is easy to find.  The fraction of the total embedded in each share is easy to find.  I'm not sure what is "incorrect" about any of this.
Well glad to see that is done correctly, even if difficulty is not handled the same way everywhere else in p2pool Smiley

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December 24, 2013, 04:20:11 PM
 #7246

I'm trying to mine GDC with the following line:
C:\cgminer\cgminer.exe --scrypt -I 13 -g 2 -w 256 --thread-concurrency 14336 --auto-gpu --auto-fan --gpu-reorder --gpu-fan 20-100 -o http://p2pool.org:9876 -u gMngTWRPr5pDcsnyL19b2KBXrgTvGdkEYr -p password

but cgminer just sits there and hangs (it says started cgminer on a single line before going to an all black screen). When I press c I get a glimpse of URL not found and some other information but it vanishes before I can read it fully. Any ideas? Thank you!

[edit] with some quick print screening it definitely does say no servers found, most likely the wrong URL.

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December 24, 2013, 09:51:39 PM
 #7247

I'm trying to mine GDC with the following line:
C:\cgminer\cgminer.exe --scrypt -I 13 -g 2 -w 256 --thread-concurrency 14336 --auto-gpu --auto-fan --gpu-reorder --gpu-fan 20-100 -o http://p2pool.org:9876 -u gMngTWRPr5pDcsnyL19b2KBXrgTvGdkEYr -p password

but cgminer just sits there and hangs (it says started cgminer on a single line before going to an all black screen). When I press c I get a glimpse of URL not found and some other information but it vanishes before I can read it fully. Any ideas? Thank you!

[edit] with some quick print screening it definitely does say no servers found, most likely the wrong URL.
dont use p2pool.org scam, dont use winblows.

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December 25, 2013, 11:41:14 AM
 #7248

dont use p2pool.org scam, dont use winblows.

Thanks for your unhelpful, unjustified and pointless reply (which with regard to OS choice, is merely an opinion as any open minded IT Pro would recognise).

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semaster
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December 25, 2013, 01:09:18 PM
 #7249

look at the bootom of p2pol.ORG and you will see "P2Pool.org is not affiliated with P2Pool or ForrestV"

so p2pool.ORG is not p2pool and has no attention to this topic

If you want to mine on p2pool than go to p2pool.in

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December 25, 2013, 02:46:27 PM
 #7250

look at the bootom of p2pol.ORG and you will see "P2Pool.org is not affiliated with P2Pool or ForrestV"

so p2pool.ORG is not p2pool and has no attention to this topic

If you want to mine on p2pool than go to p2pool.in
so i assume his post which i cant read (due to ignore) is a rant, well seems ppl are still resistant wrt learning new things Tongue
anyway, this is OT

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December 26, 2013, 02:03:52 PM
 #7251

I think there is at least one p2pool backed pool out there that supports smaller miners.  However, it works by setting the fee to 100% and has a separate process to handle payouts to miners.

I believe you're talking about mine (pun intended) at cryptominer.org, and that's exactly how I do it.

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December 27, 2013, 10:23:41 PM
 #7252

how lucky im, ive been posting shares over a week, 0 d 0 o. finnish pool, ive got enough with the noise i took those bflscs outside, dead is rising now.
If i only know how to share namecoins.


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December 29, 2013, 09:41:35 AM
 #7253

SUPPORT DECENTRALIZED MINING TECH

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=329860.0
If the community donates in excess of $1,000 to Forrest's donation addresses before noon UTC December 31st, the Litecoin Dev Team will contribute an additional $1,000 in support of  research and development of p2pool.

https://blockchain.info/address/1KxvX5Hx8nh36ig2gT5bpeEcqLQcwJsZGB
0.114995 BTC
http://ltc.block-explorer.com/address/LPfkfi2tMuGSc64PZTsP9Amt367hwAUQzY
204.00221964 LTC

The donation addresses must increase in value by > $1,000 above the current received totals.

Why are we doing this?
Litecoin Dev already donated $2,600 to Forrest earlier this year.  We strongly believe that p2pool improvement is critical to the future of Bitcoin so we want to encourage others to join us in supporting this cause.

If you appreciate my work please consider making a small donation.
BTC:  1LkYiL3RaouKXTUhGcE84XLece31JjnLc3      LTC:  LYtrtYZsVSn5ymhPepcJMo4HnBeeXXVKW9
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December 29, 2013, 10:10:09 PM
 #7254

My 60 ghash bfl single is now at zero payout! First time this has happened to me due to bad luck finding shares.

Difficulty now so high is increasing variance for small (60Ghash!) miners.
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December 31, 2013, 12:41:55 AM
 #7255

Got a technical question.
What's the purpose of a 0-value output in a p2pool's generated tx?
From wiki I read
Quote
A transaction that is not valid, but just has a value of zero and the hash of the share info. This is to prove that when a share is found it was whilst looking for a real p2pool block. This is computed from the ref_type data structure.
Still I don't understand why it's needed.
Isn't checking proof-of-work hash and payouts in generated tx enough?
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December 31, 2013, 12:53:27 AM
 #7256

The 0-value output has a hash that covers a bunch of internal data structures so that everything that makes up a share is covered by the PoW hash.

This prevents someone from, say, raising the apparent share difficulty they were trying for to just match every share they get, which would result in many times higher profits.

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December 31, 2013, 01:21:26 AM
 #7257

The 0-value output has a hash that covers a bunch of internal data structures so that everything that makes up a share is covered by the PoW hash.

This prevents someone from, say, raising the apparent share difficulty they were trying for to just match every share they get, which would result in many times higher profits.
Thanks, now I get it.
Is share difficulty the only thing that could be manipulated to raise one's reward?
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December 31, 2013, 03:28:31 AM
 #7258

Hey, we've made a (hopefully) informative page on P2Pools at whatisp2pool.com. Any feedback is appreciated.

My Dogecoin mining pool. 0% fee, proxypool into p2pool network
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December 31, 2013, 04:06:24 AM
 #7259

Hey, we've made a (hopefully) informative page on P2Pools at whatisp2pool.com. Any feedback is appreciated.
- do not mention doge shit?! its bloated with it...
- recommend to run a own node and not use a public one (especially NOT p2pool.org)

seems to be a good informational page for beginners Smiley

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January 01, 2014, 11:06:14 PM
 #7260

DodgeCoin ? More garbage coins ...

Anyhow : time to update the 117T to 200T  on the topic Wink

On same topic .. is MultiPool using p2pool? There seems to be a lot of hash "coming/going" sporadically - but it also not translating into more blocks.

Oh .. and GREAT WORK on p2pool thanks forrestv!

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